ORAS Megas - OM Edition

[DinaIsha]

HEY! Whimsi has a niche! It's the only 'mon with good Fairy or Grass-type priority AND the strongest special priority user! (Nature Power + Prankster + Misty / Grassy Terrain)

All Chansey switch into Whimsicott and stall it out. And with one Mon already Spored, every decent attacker can deal with Whimsicott just fine.

Whimiscot's niche, if at all it has one, is the usual SubSeed, which is easily beaten.

 

[canno]

wheres the hidden type love?

Salamence @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 112 Atk / 52 SpD / 96 Spe
Adamant Nature
IVs: 30 SpD (Steel)
- Roost
- Substitute
- Return
- Dragon Dance

It's over people, you can go home. The threat is here. Flying / Steel / Dragon is extremely good typing, especially since this means that Mence is no longer 4x weak to Ice, which added with its bulk means trouble. The SubRoost chooses such a good defensive typing to allow set-up on things it should have no business setting up on. It could struggle since you can now slap Electric onto anything, but honestly you better have some damn good bulk, otherwise you're about to catch this death. EVs are strange - bulk lets subs not die to defensive rotom-w's volt switch and makes it bulky as all hell, 96 speed outpaces M-Sceptile at +1, and the rest is dumped into attack. What makes M-Mence so dangerous in HT is that the whole "versatility" thing it has in ORAS OU is cranked up to 11 - Standard DD with added Ground-type wrecks shit with great offensive coverage, adding Water lets Hydro Pump works really well in mixed sets, those who don't care about SR can run Fire to roast shit with Fire Blast. This thing is just so good. In a less broken note, here's M-Beedrill

Beedrill @ Beedrillite
Ability: Swarm
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 31 all or 30 SpA / 30 SpD
- U-turn
- Protect
- Poison Jab
- Knock Off / Drill Run

Pretty basic shit - just add STAB to your favorite coverage move. Defensively they add nothing due to Beedrill being frail as shit - however, you're immune to Psychic with Dark and SR don't completely make you cry if your Ground. There's really no other good option - maybe Fighting with Brick Break? Too bad there's no HP Normal (for the millionth time) - Adaptability Double-Edge would hurt like a bitch from this thing. Even Return would dent thing. But no, still low BP STABs due to bad movepool (rip egg moves). Still, adapt Koff / Drill Run make it a lot better, so that's something.

Gallade (M) @ Galladite
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Knock Off
- Zen Headbutt
- Swords Dance / Will-o-Wisp

Nice and powerful STAB Knock Off coming through. Smack those yucky Fairy-types with Zen Heanbutt - those who go Dark / Fairy get smacked by Close Combat anyways. SD is for Sweep Dance. Pretty basic stuff. Pretty neat mon. Fighting means its not 4x weak to Bug, so that's kawaii. It's also immune to Psychic and takes neutral from Ghost and Fighting, so it's pretty good defensively too. Also can't flinch :^)

 

[Ghoul King]

Honestly, for Gallade I'd probably decide I hate Fairies completely and make it Poison type running Poison Jab.

Or I'd decide I just f-n hate Talonflame, take Electric, give it Thunderpunch and maybe squeeze in Shadow Sneak somewhere so I can finish off bulky Talonflames. (Mega Gallade will outspeed if they have no Speed investment and you're maxed)

STAB Knock Off isn't really adding much. Most of the Psychic and Ghost types Mega Gallade fights are either things it should switch out on regardless (Will O Wisp off Sableye before you move) or that go down in one hit from a non-STAB Knock Off anyway. Neutrally threatening other things with it sounds nice, except Close Combat will do more unless they resist and you're running it anyway, and you don't need the STAB for threatening the Psychics and Ghosts that laugh at Close Combat -and Mega Gallade has depressingly little reason to run a Physical Psychic move regardless, because it adds... I guess an option for taking down Poison types in a reasonable time frame? Maybe if there was some 100 BP Physical Psychic move (that it got), but Zen Headbutt is bad and Psycho Cut is sufficiently weak that even with STAB the only reason I don't recommend Earthquake over it is because Ground and Fighting have a lot of redundancies. (Both bad against Flying, both good against Steel and Rock)

I'd much rather take a type that brings up to real use some other move -like Thunderpunch- and leave Knock Off alone. Dark/Psychic/Fighting isn't a thrilling type combination on any level, for all that there's plenty worse out there. Heck, I could see an argument for taking Leaf Blade and Grass typing -a lot of Hidden Type Pokemon are vulnerable to Grass (Ground typed Gyarados, the Hippowdon's all running Water so they're doubly weak to Grass, etc), and Leaf Blade is really, really good. It would also give Mega Gallade a response to Ghost type (Mega) Tyranitar, which the build you provided cries in the face of -it can't even drop a Will O Wisp to screw over Tyranitar- and Ghost Tyranitar is very common and one of several Pokemon that is depressingly prone to Dragon Dancing up while you switch and then proceeding to just kill things. Also throws in Spore and powder immunity, Earthquake resistance, Water resistance... it also adds Bug, Poison, and Fire weaknesses while redoubling the Flying weakness, but it can still be good, especially since a lot of the top threats run exactly none of those, like Steel Dragonites that are Iron Head/Dragon Claw/Roost/Dragon Dance.

Really, in general, I'd dump Swords Dance for Will O Wisp -there is just no way Mega Gallade is going to sweep a sensible Hidden Type team, whereas dumping Will O Wisp on things is actually pretty effective, and a lot of people are oblivious to the possibility.

But yeah Mega Salamence is basically Dragonite, only replace Multiscale with appalling offenses that don't have any need for variety -it can literally run just Return and kill basically everything short of, like, Rock-typed Magnezone or a Shedinja that's covered its Flying weakness, which are basically specialized anti-Salamence counters.

Mega Beedrill I'd give Dark for maximum Knock Off silliness. 200~ BP when removing an item is fantastic, and the biggest reason for Drill Run is countering Heatran -which is never doubly vulnerable to Ground in Hidden Type and is usually flat out immune. Really, the only reason I'm not suggesting replacing Drill Run with something else entirely is because Beedrill's movepool is too limited to offer a real replacement -it's not like it learns Taunt- though if we're really lucky ORAS will give it access to some good alternative. (Though I guess Brick Break isn't a completely awful replacement -but Tyranitar and Bisharp are usually immune to Brick Break and vulnerable to Drill Run, while Flying Heatran you'd be better off with the STAB Knock Off, even when not removing an item, and ugh)

 

[canno]

Poison Gallade is just silly though - especially Zen Headbutt or any other STAB you choose (Electric, mainly) can smack Fairies hard due to their low defense (thank god for no HP Fairy). It also adds nothing else to solve a problem that really isn't a problem as well. If anything it adds a lot of complications - weakness to Ground, no good resistance added outside of maybe Bug (4x fighting resist is alright). Overall I feel its a bit silly to add Poison just for Fairies - especially wen they're not really a problem in the first place with Zen Headbutt and your third STAB.

I feel like you're really underselling STAB Knock Off - even resists don't like taking it, if only for the sole reason of losing an item (it also hits pretty hard). Psychic / Dark / Fighting has some pretty swell coverage, and isn't terrible defensively. Neutralizing that Ghost weakness is pretty good, and giving it a Dark resist is fantastic when things like to spam Koffs around. Obviously other options are great too - ThunderPunch in particular fascinates me greatly, while Lead Blade works for anti-meta shenanigans, but Koff still have huge merits to it that I feel are being overlooked.

Oh, and Will-o over SD is definitely a good option. SD is still good though - the sheer power is insane and SD at the very least migrates the burn damage reduction. Will-O is really good too though, in the same way Garde uses it. Hell even Taunt is a neat option on it.

As for M-Beedrill, Drill Run hits shit like Steel / Fairy Clefable, and other added Steel-types combos. You're also overlooking that Ground is a really good STAB, although less so in Hidden Type due to people migrating it, but its still a good STAB that hits Steel-types not immune to it. Obviously though Dark is going to be the most used and best set (which is why it was my first slash) - Adapt Koff is just way too good to pass up, especially when it smacks so many things like Flyingtran.

 

[Ghoul King]

Poison Gallade is just silly though - especially Zen Headbutt or any other STAB you choose (Electric, mainly) can smack Fairies hard due to their low defense (thank god for no HP Fairy). It also adds nothing else to solve a problem that really isn't a problem as well. If anything it adds a lot of complications - weakness to Ground, no good resistance added outside of maybe Bug (4x fighting resist is alright). Overall I feel its a bit silly to add Poison just for Fairies - especially wen they're not really a problem in the first place with Zen Headbutt and your third STAB.

Fairies are STAB super effective on you, doubly so if you take Dark, which is your proposal. They resist both of your good STABs and your crappy STAB is crappy and most Fairies are tough -not amazing in Defense no, but tough nonetheless. Meanwhile Poison removes the Fairy weakness, renders you immune to Poisoning including Toxic Spikes, throws in resistances to Poison, Bug, Grass, and redoubles your Fighting resist, and the only costs are you become weak to Psychic (A rare type to see in Hidden Type since Ghost essentially outclasses it) and weak to Ground. (More relevant, since Ground is common to counter all the added Steel types running around) Zen Headbutt absolutely requires that +2 from Swords dance to have any chance at all of OHKOing a Fairy -and it still won't work if they add Steel or Dark and they have reason to run both- and is just generally not good as neutral coverage because Psychic is mediocre type all around, and if you don't OHKO the Fairy the Fairy OHKOs you. So basically if you haven't established its added type, let's say you Swords Dance while it switched in, then you're in a guessing game where you must correctly guess its added type or be OHKOed, no questions asked. It has no such need to guess your type -Fairy will be good against Mega Gallade no matter what you added, just not necessarily the best choice- and thus can just Play Rough/Moon Blast/Hyper Voice/whatever pretty fearlessly.

The real argument against Poison Jab is 99% of players add Steel to their Fairy type and thus your anti-Fairy effort will be completely for naught -but at that point I'd rather take Steel or especially Fire (Burn immunity) to get around being weak to Fairy and get nifty side benefits.

I feel like you're really underselling STAB Knock Off - even resists don't like taking it, if only for the sole reason of losing an item (it also hits pretty hard). Psychic / Dark / Fighting has some pretty swell coverage, and isn't terrible defensively. Neutralizing that Ghost weakness is pretty good, and giving it a Dark resist is fantastic when things like to spam Koffs around. Obviously other options are great too - ThunderPunch in particular fascinates me greatly, while Lead Blade works for anti-meta shenanigans, but Koff still have huge merits to it that I feel are being overlooked.

Double Fairy weakness, and my point is: basically anything you don't want to Close Combat instead hates taking a Knock Off without STAB. Getting STAB on it will often be overkill. Flying types are the main exception, and most Hidden Type Flying types take neutral -or sometimes super effective, such as Flying Tyranitar- damage from Close Combat, so it hits harder. What else resists Fighting? Fairy, which also resists Dark, Psychic and Ghost, which are vulnerable and will usually be OHKOed because they're generally fragile, and Poison, which if you're going to run a Psychic move anyway is vulnerable, assuming it's not Dark/Poison, which it probably is and brings us back to Close Combat is better.

Don't have time for anything else, but these are my main points anyway, so oh well.

 

[canno]

Fairies are STAB super effective on you, doubly so if you take Dark, which is your proposal. They resist both of your good STABs and your crappy STAB is crappy and most Fairies are tough -not amazing in Defense no, but tough nonetheless. Meanwhile Poison removes the Fairy weakness, renders you immune to Poisoning including Toxic Spikes, throws in resistances to Poison, Bug, Grass, and redoubles your Fighting resist, and the only costs are you become weak to Psychic (A rare type to see in Hidden Type since Ghost essentially outclasses it) and weak to Ground. (More relevant, since Ground is common to counter all the added Steel types running around) Zen Headbutt absolutely requires that +2 from Swords dance to have any chance at all of OHKOing a Fairy -and it still won't work if they add Steel or Dark and they have reason to run both- and is just generally not good as neutral coverage because Psychic is mediocre type all around, and if you don't OHKO the Fairy the Fairy OHKOs you. So basically if you haven't established its added type, let's say you Swords Dance while it switched in, then you're in a guessing game where you must correctly guess its added type or be OHKOed, no questions asked. It has no such need to guess your type -Fairy will be good against Mega Gallade no matter what you added, just not necessarily the best choice- and thus can just Play Rough/Moon Blast/Hyper Voice/whatever pretty fearlessly.

The real argument against Poison Jab is 99% of players add Steel to their Fairy type and thus your anti-Fairy effort will be completely for naught -but at that point I'd rather take Steel or especially Fire (Burn immunity) to get around being weak to Fairy and get nifty side benefits.

Immunity to Poison isn't that great when things are dying to hit you with T-Wave and Will-o-Wisps. Not saying that Gallade likes getting Poisoned, but if I had to chose between Poison and Burn or Para, I'd happily take the Poison. Not only that, but why not just run Steel? It provides almost all the benefits (being 4x resistant to Fighting isn't that useful when most of them have a way to hit you anyways, especially in this meta) while having others. Again, Fairy-types do not enjoy switching into your moves, and changing your coverage move and wasting your extra type on Poison is pointless. Zen Headbutt is good enough to smack Fairies, except those who run something like Steel / Fairy, which take neutral from CC anyways. And nothing enjoys switching into Koff for the sole reason of item removal - losing your lefites makes you so much easier to wear down. Any type that wants to resist / be immune to Psychic with Fairy is susceptible to neutral Close Combat, which is awesome. Also Ghost being everywhere makes Knock Off useful, and Dark-types useful for neutralizing your Ghost weakness, something that would destroy you otherwise. It also lets you resist Dark, which is good because Dark is such a good offensive typing. Also I don't see your point about SD - you should never set-up until you have a general idea as to what type your counter is, which you can do by just attacking them on the switch. Psychic isn't great offensively, but it works well enough to fend off Fairy-types.

Double Fairy weakness, and my point is: basically anything you don't want to Close Combat instead hates taking a Knock Off without STAB. Getting STAB on it will often be overkill. Flying types are the main exception, and most Hidden Type Flying types take neutral -or sometimes super effective, such as Flying Tyranitar- damage from Close Combat, so it hits harder. What else resists Fighting? Fairy, which also resists Dark, Psychic and Ghost, which are vulnerable and will usually be OHKOed because they're generally fragile, and Poison, which if you're going to run a Psychic move anyway is vulnerable, assuming it's not Dark/Poison, which it probably is and brings us back to Close Combat is better.

So what if you have a 4x weakness to Fairy? You're not staying in even if you have a 2x weakness to them. Also that's not true at all - Ghost Bisharp does not appreciate the Koff when there's STAB behind it, and now you actually resist it's Sucker Punch so its all well. There's other examples as well of mons that don't mind a non-STAB Koff but might worry about a STAB Koff. Also tell me what's more spammable - STAB Koff or CC? In a meta where anything can be part Ghost, Koff is generally much more spam able. Even if they switch into a resist, unless its a mega it's not going to like losing its item. What you said about Psychic- and Ghost-types is just not true, especially in a meta where anything can become a Ghost or a Psychic. I mean look at something like Steel / Psychic Cresselia - you're not going to tell me Cress is frail, are you? Then there's any number of bulky Normal-types that might want to try on their Ghost pants - something like, say, Ghost / Normal Chansey? As for Fairy- and Poison-types, well, Fairies can generally only take either Close Combat or Zen Headbutt, but not both (obviously they can take about 1 or 2 before dying, but it will be doing a significant chunk if you hit them on the switch). And even then nothing appreciates losing its item. Poison's are generally not relevant, and when they are CC wrecks them because they're usually Dark, so they're not worth talking about.

 

[Ghoul King]

Also that's not true at all - Ghost Bisharp does not appreciate the Koff when there's STAB behind it, and now you actually resist it's Sucker Punch so its all well.

252+ Atk Gallade Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Bisharp: 139-164 (51.1 - 60.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

No STAB, removing an item.

252+ Atk Gallade Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Bisharp: 208-246 (76.4 - 90.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

STAB, removing an item.

Both on a Bisharp that's added Ghost. If it hasn't added Ghost, time for Close Combat regardless, and if's part Ghost you don't need STAB to remove more than half its health. Without STAB the second Knock Off won't be a KO, but if you're running Electric Gallade with Thunderpunch you just do this-

252+ Atk Gallade Thunder Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Bisharp: 160-190 (58.8 - 69.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

-to finish it off. Or you could just smack it twice with Thunder Punch, even if it's not Ghost. (What, you really think Ground Bisharp is going to happen? Grass? Electr-actually does Bisharp get Electric moves 'cause that could actually happen)

The STAB only really helps if you're planning on running a Physical Psychic move for STAB (Such that Ghost Bisharp is untouchable for your other STABs), and I stopped doing that almost immediately in ORAS OU because Psychic is a crappy offensive type. It also is a set that Ghost Mega Tyranitar will completely laugh off, Dragon Dance, and then murder your entire team if you don't have Mega Scizor or something (Mega Gallade meaning you don't have Mega Scizor), it's completely walled by Mega Sableye, it's not actually any better against Ghost Bisharp than Electric Thunderpunch Mega Gallade, etc.

I'd much rather run Close Combat/Leaf Blade/Knock Off/Will O Wisp with added Grass typing (To counter Mega Tyranitar, in part: Will O Wisp it and then Leaf Blade it) or Thunderpunch over Leaf Blade and Electric typing, or even Fire Punch and Fire typing to laugh in the face of Will O Wisp, which is one of Mega Gallade's worst enemies. (Fire Punch would be a OHKO on Ghost Bisharp, by the way, barring Focus Sash, which STAB Knock Off does nothing to help push through)

There's other examples as well of mons that don't mind a non-STAB Koff but might worry about a STAB Koff.

Name them, because your examples thus far are flatly wrong.

What you said about Psychic- and Ghost-types is just not true, especially in a meta where anything can become a Ghost or a Psychic.

The part where Psychic is almost invalidated by Ghost, or something else? I'm not actually sure what you're trying to say with this sentence.

I mean look at something like Steel / Psychic Cresselia - you're not going to tell me Cress is frail, are you?

252+ Atk Gallade Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 152+ Def Cresselia: 288-338 (64.8 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Gallade Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 152+ Def Cresselia: 192-228 (43.2 - 51.3%) -- 5.9% chance to 2HKO

STAB removing an item followed by not removing an item. Pretty neat.

252+ Atk Gallade Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 152+ Def Cresselia: 192-226 (43.2 - 50.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Gallade Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 152+ Def Cresselia: 128-152 (28.8 - 34.2%) -- 2.5% chance to 3HKO

Not STAB, removing an item followed by not removing an item. Not 2HKO, fair enough, and with Swords dance the STAB one will be a OHKO while the non-STAB one has a small chance of being a OHKO.

On the other hand...

0 SpA Cresselia Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gallade: 192-228 (69.3 - 82.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

This is zero investment, no buffs on Dark/Fighting. With investment...

252 SpA Cresselia Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gallade: 256-304 (92.4 - 109.7%) -- 50% chance to OHKO

So even without a Special Attack boosting nature or one Calm Mind, it has a 50% chance of OHKO-ing you while you're messing it up with a Knock Off. The double Fairy weakness doesn't matter? Really?

Then there's any number of bulky Normal-types that might want to try on their Ghost pants - something like, say, Ghost / Normal Chansey?

Eviolite Chansey is stupid if it's staying in/switching in for your Knock Off, STAB or no. But hey let's calc it anyway.

252+ Atk Gallade Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 552-650 (85.9 - 101.2%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

STAB on Ghost/Normal.

252+ Atk Gallade Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 368-434 (57.3 - 67.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

No STAB on Ghost Normal.

Small chance of being a OHKO on STAB, true enough -but they're both 2HKOs (Knock Off does the same damage against an Eviolite target as it does against something with no item) if you don't get that 12.5% chance of a high roll, and they're both OHKOs if Chansey is stupid enough to come in while you have a Sword Dance up.

As for Fairy- and Poison-types, well, Fairies can generally only take either Close Combat or Zen Headbutt, but not both (obviously they can take about 1 or 2 before dying, but it will be doing a significant chunk if you hit them on the switch).

Steel-type Togekiss laughs in the face of your ignorance, and is a thing, and is vulnerable to Thunderpunch while walling your entire set.

252+ Atk Gallade Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Togekiss: 108-128 (28.9 - 34.3%) -- 99.7% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

Simulated Knock Off. Crap damage.

252+ Atk Gallade Zen Headbutt vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Togekiss: 60-71 (16 - 19%) -- possible 8HKO after Leftovers recovery

Simulated Zen Headbutt on Steel variant. Even more crap.

252+ Atk Gallade Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Togekiss: 135-159 (36.1 - 42.6%) -- 94.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Such crap damage it can literally switch in on it and murder you. Targeted against a pure Fairy to simulate Steel lowering resistance by one tier.

Meanwhile...

8 SpA Togekiss Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gallade: 360-424 (129.9 - 153%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Nil investment, effortlessly destroys you, no matter what.

Meanwhile Electric Gallade...

252+ Atk Gallade Thunder Punch vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Togekiss: 338-398 (90.6 - 106.7%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

... does this to Steel-typed Togekiss.

Why is Zen Headbutt supposed to help against Fairies again? Togekiss is one of the most common Fairies in the meta -after Azumarill, I think- and utterly destroys your set and demolishes your statements. Heck, Electric Mega Gallade takes halved damage from both of Togekiss' STABs compared to Dark Mega Gallade.

Speaking of Azumarill...

252+ Atk Gallade Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 92 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 125-147 (34.3 - 40.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

STAB

252+ Atk Gallade Zen Headbutt vs. 92 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 69-81 (18.9 - 22.2%) -- possible 5HKO

STAB against a Steel variant -and note this isn't that bulky of an Azumarill (surprised that OU Belly Drum isn't bulkier) and also note that even with resistance it would still be crap.

252+ Atk Gallade Close Combat vs. 92 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 310-366 (85.1 - 100.5%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

Tiny chance of a OHKO against a Steel typed Azumarill. Again, with low bulk on the Azumarill, so more realistically it'll be tougher. If you have a Swords Dance up, great! Oh by the way let's imagine for a moment it's Fire typed instead -which Azumarill runs in Hidden type- because at that point the above numbers are what you get after a Swords Dance with your Close Combat while your Zen Headbutt that's supposed to "counter Fairies" does...

+2 252+ Atk Gallade Zen Headbutt vs. 92 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 275-324 (75.5 - 89%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

... this. ie not good enough, and again this Azumarill has low bulk.

And nothing enjoys switching into Koff for the sole reason of item removal - losing your lefites makes you so much easier to wear down.

Don't need STAB for that.

Any type that wants to resist / be immune to Psychic with Fairy is susceptible to neutral Close Combat, which is awesome.

See: Steel or Dark Togekiss, Dark Gardevoir (Resists your entire set), Dark Mr. Mime by the same token, Flying Klefki or Mega Mawile. (Flying Mega Mawile was a thing before OU banned Mega Mawile, and was quite good)

No.

Also Ghost being everywhere makes Knock Off useful, and Dark-types useful for neutralizing your Ghost weakness, something that would destroy you otherwise. It also lets you resist Dark, which is good because Dark is such a good offensive typing.

Ghost mostly occurs on a few specific Pokemon that it is enormously useful on, and of course natural Ghosts, who are rarely vulnerable and in any event are generally so fragile you don't need STAB to murder them. Calcing Gengar... well, it can revenge switch if you don't have STAB and can't if you do, so that's something, but if the idea is you're going to Swords Dance while they switch out whatever is scared of you or whatever, then STAB, again, stops being necessary at all.

Also I don't see your point about SD - you should never set-up until you have a general idea as to what type your counter is, which you can do by just attacking them on the switch.

You use offensive set-up moves either when the enemy can't KO you in a meaningful time frame or when you expect them to switch in something that the set-up move will give you an edge over, at which point it becomes crucial that you don't know the typing of an enemy in Hidden Type automatically -if you assume that Clefable is Steel and Close Combat it with your Swords Dance up and oops it was Fire type, you're dead. If you Zen Headbutt it assuming it's not Steel type and it is, you're dead. Etc. You are not going to attack them on the way in, figure out their type that way, and then Swords Dance -because they'd KO you while you're doing it.

Psychic isn't great offensively, but it works well enough to fend off Fairy-types.

Given that no Fairy/Poison or Fairy/Fighting type exists and Hidden Type Fairies don't have overwhelming reasons to add either, no it doesn't. You are underestimating the bulk of Fairies enormously.

 

[canno]

252+ Atk Gallade Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Bisharp: 139-164 (51.1 - 60.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

No STAB, removing an item.

252+ Atk Gallade Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Bisharp: 208-246 (76.4 - 90.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

STAB, removing an item.

Both on a Bisharp that's added Ghost. If it hasn't added Ghost, time for Close Combat regardless, and if's part Ghost you don't need STAB to remove more than half its health. Without STAB the second Knock Off won't be a KO, but if you're running Electric Gallade with Thunderpunch you just do this-

252+ Atk Gallade Thunder Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Bisharp: 160-190 (58.8 - 69.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

-to finish it off. Or you could just smack it twice with Thunder Punch, even if it's not Ghost. (What, you really think Ground Bisharp is going to happen? Grass? Electr-actually does Bisharp get Electric moves 'cause that could actually happen)

first of all, who the hell runs Adamant M-Gallade? Is Modest Lati@s suddenly used? No. Jolly should be used at all times due to your good speed. The calcs look more like...

252 Atk Gallade Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Bisharp: 127-150 (46.6 - 55.1%) -- 69.5% chance to 2HKO
+
252 Atk Gallade Knock Off vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Bisharp: 85-101 (31.2 - 37.1%) -- 76.6% chance to 3HKO

which never kills Bisharp. Sure, you could be Electric and then pop it, but then you take a neutral Sucker Punch to the face. Meanwhile....

252 Atk Gallade Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Bisharp: 190-225 (69.8 - 82.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+
252 Atk Gallade Knock Off vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Bisharp: 127-151 (46.6 - 55.5%) -- 69.5% chance to 2HKO

always OKHOs. Delicious. It's even better since you resist Dark, so Sucker Punch doesn't even do that much to you

vs non-Dark
252+ Atk Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gallade: 145-172 (52.3 - 62%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

vs Dark
252+ Atk Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gallade: 72-86 (25.9 - 31%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

damn. Sucker Punch is doing a lot of damage. Now obviously its not actually going to 2HKO, since it dies before it can, but it strips you of half your health. Meanwhile Dark only takes a small chunk. That's pretty notable.

The STAB only really helps if you're planning on running a Physical Psychic move for STAB (Such that Ghost Bisharp is untouchable for your other STABs), and I stopped doing that almost immediately in ORAS OU because Psychic is a crappy offensive type. It also is a set that Ghost Mega Tyranitar will completely laugh off, Dragon Dance, and then murder your entire team if you don't have Mega Scizor or something (Mega Gallade meaning you don't have Mega Scizor), it's completely walled by Mega Sableye, it's not actually any better against Ghost Bisharp than Electric Thunderpunch Mega Gallade, etc.

I'd much rather run Close Combat/Leaf Blade/Knock Off/Will O Wisp with added Grass typing (To counter Mega Tyranitar, in part: Will O Wisp it and then Leaf Blade it) or Thunderpunch over Leaf Blade and Electric typing, or even Fire Punch and Fire typing to laugh in the face of Will O Wisp, which is one of Mega Gallade's worst enemies. (Fire Punch would be a OHKO on Ghost Bisharp, by the way, barring Focus Sash, which STAB Knock Off does nothing to help push through)

Psychic is not as bad offensively as you claim it to be - otherwise why would Latias / Latios run Psyshock? It's not the greatest, mind you, but its not "crappy" at all. It's funny because a lot of people would say Grass is a "crappy offensive type". Now granted it has a specific use for a couple of mons in a lure set, but outside of that Grass is really shit.

Name them, because your examples thus far are flatly wrong.

Well there's the above Bisharp that I mentioned. Steel / Psychic Cresseilia is another one. Then there's shit like Ghost Registeel and Cofagrigus. There's other examples I'm missing, but those are the ones from the top of my head.

The part where Psychic is almost invalidated by Ghost, or something else? I'm not actually sure what you're trying to say with this sentence.

Feeling is mutual. You said that all Psychic- and Ghost-types are frail and die to unSTAB Koff anyways, which is defnintely not true in a meta where anything can become part Psychic or Ghost if it choses to. Even if Psychic is "almost invalidated by Ghost" - that still leaves bulky Ghosts to get smacked about.

252+ Atk Gallade Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 152+ Def Cresselia: 288-338 (64.8 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Gallade Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 152+ Def Cresselia: 192-228 (43.2 - 51.3%) -- 5.9% chance to 2HKO

STAB removing an item followed by not removing an item. Pretty neat.

252+ Atk Gallade Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 152+ Def Cresselia: 192-226 (43.2 - 50.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Gallade Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 152+ Def Cresselia: 128-152 (28.8 - 34.2%) -- 2.5% chance to 3HKO

Not STAB, removing an item followed by not removing an item. Not 2HKO, fair enough, and with Swords dance the STAB one will be a OHKO while the non-STAB one has a small chance of being a OHKO.

On the other hand...

0 SpA Cresselia Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gallade: 192-228 (69.3 - 82.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

This is zero investment, no buffs on Dark/Fighting. With investment...

252 SpA Cresselia Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gallade: 256-304 (92.4 - 109.7%) -- 50% chance to OHKO

So even without a Special Attack boosting nature or one Calm Mind, it has a 50% chance of OHKO-ing you while you're messing it up with a Knock Off. The double Fairy weakness doesn't matter? Really?

I...don't understand your point here. M-Gallade isn't switching in on Cress, Cress is switching on M-Gallade to try and wall it, which it would if you're running unSTABed Koff. The only time a Gallade would switch into Cress is if Gallade knows it can kill with either CC or Koff. It's not going to hit you with Moonblast because you have to be daft to get in a situation where it will. Also what's the point of showing investment - Cress would never run max SpA, and if it did Koff would destroy it even unSTABed, so what's your point?

Eviolite Chansey is stupid if it's staying in/switching in for your Knock Off, STAB or no. But hey let's calc it anyway.

252+ Atk Gallade Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 552-650 (85.9 - 101.2%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

STAB on Ghost/Normal.

252+ Atk Gallade Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 368-434 (57.3 - 67.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

No STAB on Ghost Normal.

Small chance of being a OHKO on STAB, true enough -but they're both 2HKOs (Knock Off does the same damage against an Eviolite target as it does against something with no item) if you don't get that 12.5% chance of a high roll, and they're both OHKOs if Chansey is stupid enough to come in while you have a Sword Dance up.

Chansey could switch in if it's Ghost / Normal because it doesn't even know if you're running Koff, and especially if its the teams only switch in to it. So yes it is relevant. Also it being adamant doesn't matter here because...

252 Atk Gallade Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 336-396 (52.3 - 61.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (no STAB)
252 Atk Gallade Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 504-594 (78.5 - 92.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (STAB)

It's only really relevant if Chansey switches in for free, but yea I'll give you that it doesn't really matter vs Chansey. At least Ghost Chansey, but that's the only Chansey coming in so....yea, I'll give you that.

Steel-type Togekiss laughs in the face of your ignorance, and is a thing, and is vulnerable to Thunderpunch while walling your entire set.

252+ Atk Gallade Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Togekiss: 108-128 (28.9 - 34.3%) -- 99.7% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

Simulated Knock Off. Crap damage.

252+ Atk Gallade Zen Headbutt vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Togekiss: 60-71 (16 - 19%) -- possible 8HKO after Leftovers recovery

Simulated Zen Headbutt on Steel variant. Even more crap.

252+ Atk Gallade Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Togekiss: 135-159 (36.1 - 42.6%) -- 94.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Such crap damage it can literally switch in on it and murder you. Targeted against a pure Fairy to simulate Steel lowering resistance by one tier.

Meanwhile...

8 SpA Togekiss Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gallade: 360-424 (129.9 - 153%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Nil investment, effortlessly destroys you, no matter what.

Meanwhile Electric Gallade...

252+ Atk Gallade Thunder Punch vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Togekiss: 338-398 (90.6 - 106.7%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

... does this to Steel-typed Togekiss.

Why is Zen Headbutt supposed to help against Fairies again? Togekiss is one of the most common Fairies in the meta -after Azumarill, I think- and utterly destroys your set and demolishes your statements. Heck, Electric Mega Gallade takes halved damage from both of Togekiss' STABs compared to Dark Mega Gallade.

Good luck hitting that Ground Togekiss with T-Punch, because Steel Togekiss is the only set, right? Again, Zen Headbutt pops Fairies for decent damage that aren't part Steel, which get a taste of Close Combat. CC is doing a decent enough chunk on the switch, and doesn't appreciate the Koff because it loses its item. now obviously it doing less than in your calc, because again, Jolly > Adamant. But 32.9 - 38.6% is alright damage. Here's the thing though - Gallade can switch out! Obviously that means Toge wins, but it is still lost a decent chunk that it's going to have to recover off. Meanwhile vs Clefable

252 Atk Gallade Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 205-243 (52 - 61.6%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Gallade Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 129-153 (32.7 - 38.8%) -- 4.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

both are STAB vs Steel / Fairy. Now obviously there's the Fire set too, which does beat this

252 Atk Gallade Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 138-163 (35 - 41.3%) -- 75% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

But that also beats Electric and Fire anyways, so it does better vs Fire Clefable than the other types.

Speaking of Azumarill...

252+ Atk Gallade Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 92 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 125-147 (34.3 - 40.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

STAB

252+ Atk Gallade Zen Headbutt vs. 92 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 69-81 (18.9 - 22.2%) -- possible 5HKO

STAB against a Steel variant -and note this isn't that bulky of an Azumarill (surprised that OU Belly Drum isn't bulkier) and also note that even with resistance it would still be crap.

252+ Atk Gallade Close Combat vs. 92 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 310-366 (85.1 - 100.5%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

Tiny chance of a OHKO against a Steel typed Azumarill. Again, with low bulk on the Azumarill, so more realistically it'll be tougher. If you have a Swords Dance up, great! Oh by the way let's imagine for a moment it's Fire typed instead -which Azumarill runs in Hidden type- because at that point the above numbers are what you get after a Swords Dance with your Close Combat while your Zen Headbutt that's supposed to "counter Fairies" does...

+2 252+ Atk Gallade Zen Headbutt vs. 92 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 275-324 (75.5 - 89%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

... this. ie not good enough, and again this Azumarill has low bulk.

I...don't quite understand this one. Azu does jack shit vs Gallade

252 Atk Gallade Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 92 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 76-90 (20.8 - 24.7%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
+
252 Atk Gallade Close Combat vs. 92 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 282-333 (77.4 - 91.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

means you have a dead azumarril almost all the time if it switches in. Azu needs to come in on the revenge kill, and even then it has to almost die. This is assuming you're running BD - other spreads die.

Also what's the point of showing that +2 Zen Headbutt doesn't OHKO Steel Azu, when CC does?

+2 252 Atk Gallade Zen Headbutt vs. 92 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 376-444 (103.2 - 121.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

This is neutral Zen Headbutt at +2. Again, what was the point of showing +2 Zen Headbutt doesn't kill a resist?

Don't need STAB for that.

It doesn't need STAB but STAB makes it dent more

See: Steel or Dark Togekiss, Dark Gardevoir (Resists your entire set), Dark Mr. Mime by the same token, Flying Klefki or Mega Mawile. (Flying Mega Mawile was a thing before OU banned Mega Mawile, and was quite good)

No.

Steel- and Dark- Togekiss take netural CC and Dark isn't even good with Gardevoir but is technically correct. Mr. Mime is just...stop. Close Combat is still doing a good chunk to it due to how not bulky it is

252 Atk Gallade Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Klefki: 89-105 (27.9 - 33%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

same with Garde

252 Atk Gallade Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Gardevoir: 161-189 (58.1 - 68.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

no one runs max defense Gardevoir.

And M-Mawile is banned, so there's absolutely no point in bringing it up, while normal Mawile is worst than Mr. Mime.

Ghost mostly occurs on a few specific Pokemon that it is enormously useful on, and of course natural Ghosts, who are rarely vulnerable and in any event are generally so fragile you don't need STAB to murder them. Calcing Gengar... well, it can revenge switch if you don't have STAB and can't if you do, so that's something, but if the idea is you're going to Swords Dance while they switch out whatever is scared of you or whatever, then STAB, again, stops being necessary at all.

Ghost occurs a lot - on both offensive and defensive mons. It's a really good type to add on to stuff. Also if you're allow to mention stuff like Mr. Mime, then I can go ahead and say that Ghost / Steel Cofagrigus is a thing (and why wouldn't it?)

252 Atk Gallade Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 140-166 (43.8 - 52%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+
252 Atk Gallade Knock Off vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 94-112 (29.4 - 35.1%) -- 11.8% chance to 3HKO

252 Atk Gallade Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 210-248 (65.8 - 77.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+
252 Atk Gallade Knock Off vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 140-168 (43.8 - 52.6%) -- 16.4% chance to 2HKO

or even Steel / Ghost Registeel

252 Atk Gallade Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Registeel: 204-242 (56 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+
252 Atk Gallade Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Registeel: 138-164 (37.9 - 45%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
chance to OHKO, while +2 OHKOs

252 Atk Gallade Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Registeel: 136-162 (37.3 - 44.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+
252 Atk Gallade Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Registeel: 92-110 (25.2 - 30.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

never gets the OHKO.

You use offensive set-up moves either when the enemy can't KO you in a meaningful time frame or when you expect them to switch in something that the set-up move will give you an edge over, at which point it becomes crucial that you don't know the typing of an enemy in Hidden Type automatically -if you assume that Clefable is Steel and Close Combat it with your Swords Dance up and oops it was Fire type, you're dead. If you Zen Headbutt it assuming it's not Steel type and it is, you're dead. Etc. You are not going to attack them on the way in, figure out their type that way, and then Swords Dance -because they'd KO you while you're doing it.

SD is more used during late- or mid-game whenever you either know you need +2 or when you know you can clean up at +2. You should NEVER SD when you still don't know if your opponent has an ace up their sleeves. This is especially true in Hidden Type - you can't just set-up when your opponent might have a Dark Togekiss or whatever, unless its weakened to the point where +2 can kill. You scout typing by using attacks as they switch into you - you find out what you're opponent's main switch into you is and why. Also I don't see what this paragraph has to do with Dark Gallade at all.

Given that no Fairy/Poison or Fairy/Fighting type exists and Hidden Type Fairies don't have overwhelming reasons to add either, no it doesn't. You are underestimating the bulk of Fairies enormously.

The point was neutral Zen Headbutt does enough damage to non-resistant Fairies (which will be hit by neutral Close Combat unless they're running a type to counter it like Dark Gardevoir, which could also run Dark for similar reasons to Dark Gallade). You're overestimating the bulk of fairies - the bulkies one that's not Uber is Togekiss, which, to be fair, has respeciable 85/95 bulk. I will admit that I did underestimate their bulk, but you're still overestimating them - Zen Headbutt will do a clean chunk to anything that doesn't resist it.

If you wish to continue this, I urge you to PM me, as we're kind of clogging up this thread

 

[skies]

Hey guys! Great posting thus far, very proud! Updated OP :]. Also, I'd like to dump a set for 350 Cup:

Salamence @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Return
- Substitute
- Roost

Mega Salamence needs some love as well, so does 350 Cup! Anyways, this set is supposed to play nearly identically as it does in ORAS OU, setting up where possible and using its high Speed, power, and bulk, to weaken teams. This set works well in a Shroomish-infested metagame because of its ability to set up a Substitute and block Speed then proceed to setup a Dragon Dance. Return easily breaks through Shroomish, OHKOing when boosted and 2HKOing always. This set should be able to at least get to +2, at which point no wall stands a chance; Slowpoke, Hippopotas, and most other non-resistant defensive Pokemon are 2HKOed and neither can break its Substitute. However, it has to be careful as to when it chooses to set up because if a Honedge or Rhyhorn is still on the field it can be walled and forced out. A Jolly nature is used because it allows Salamence to outspeed Abra and any Pokemon with 204 base Speed or below, so most of the metagame. I've yet to test this out fully, but I have high hopes for it! What do you guys think?

I'd love to see some more Mega Salamence discussion, along with some 350 Cup love by the way!

 

[Rumors]

Lemme go ahead and add a set I'm messing around with.

Balanced Hackmons

Groudon-Primal @ Choice Band / Life Orb / Expert Belt
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Thousand Arrows / Precipice Blades / Earthquake
- V-create
- Extreme Speed / Diamond Storm / Bolt Strike / Knock Off
- Trick / Spore / Nuzzle / Will-o-Wisp / Taunt / Another pick from slot 3

Explanation

While weather isn't the most popular play-style in, and Sand is probably even less so since it can't benefit from either opposing Primordial Sea or Desolate Lands, that hardly means it isn't potent when leveraged right. Groudon-P is an excellent sand abuser who really appreciates the boost in speed sand grants and has the power to smash through just about everything, especially when backed with a Choice Band. While technically it can hit harder as a Chloro abuser in the sun, sand lets it pretty much ignore 75% of the opposing Shedinjas.

Thousand Arrows is the preferred option over Precipice Blades, as Groudon-P still hits very hard with a Band or a LO and it lets it have perfect neutral coverage with just both of it's STABs, before factoring in abilities. However, this also makes it harder to wall if an Imposter gets a hold of it, so you might opt for Precipice Blades to make it easier for you to check. Earthquake is also an option for that purpose if you don't want to risk Precipice Miss. V-Create is, by far, the best Fire-type move you can use as, with Sand Rush, Groudon-P will not drop below its normal speed until -3, and it hits extremely hard and, because Sand, and weather in general, requires maintaining switch momentum, you're probably going to have to switch out after nuking one or two things anyway. However, if you suspect there's an opposing Flashfire or, more importantly, Primordial Sea user on the other team, scout before utilizing it.

The third option heavily depends on your needs and whether you opted for 1k Arrows or one of the latter Ground STABs. Extreme Speed lets Groudon revenge kill outside of the sand or, in the case of -ate users, in the sand. However, it's not a move you'll be utilizing very often. The rest are mainly to bypass certain checks, such as Flashfire Togekiss and Skarmory if you're opting not for 1k Arrows, and Slowbros and Giratinas bulky enough to take your attacks anyway. Knock Off, aside from helping with the latter two, also lets you deal with opposing Safety Goggle Sheddies.

In the final slot, Trick is a good option for crippling a check or counter on more defensive teams if you're running a Band. Or just stealing items if you happen to lose yours first. If you run the LO however, you can opt from one of the listed support moves to cripple checks or break stall, among many other possibilities. Or, in either case, you can expand your SE coverage with another option from slot 3, which is probably the most ideal option if you decide to run an Expert Belt.

Here, see it in action!

 

[Ghoul King]

Hidden Type

Altaria @ Altarite (Or whatever it's called)
Ability: Natural Cure
Speed and Attack EVs
Speed or Attack Nature, whichever you prefer
IVs add Steel
-Return/Frustration
-Dragon Claw/Outrage/Roost (Roost can make more sense than Dragon Claw given all the Flying/Steel types out there)
-Earthquake (Or you can run it Dark with Pursuit as a nasty surprise, though you'll be weak to Fairy, Poison, Steel, and Ice)
-Dragon Dance

So hey Dragon/Fairy/Steel is only weak to Ground. Of course you can already do this with Mega Mawile, or could until it was banned, but Mega Mawile would rather run Flying or Dark anyway. Now being weak to Ground isn't ideal, and this set is hard-walled by the more duable Flying Heatran out there (But Altaria's entire movepool has problems against Flying Heatran), but Fairy/Ground coverage/STAB is actually very powerful: every type that resists Fairy is vulnerable to Ground. But if you can get the Flying Heatran out of the way it's relatively easy to switch in on something with no/crappy Ground move access, Dragon Dance up, and start wrecking face. The biggest flaw is, against, all the Flying/Steel types out there, and it might be worth running mixed offenses with a Fire move instead to get coverage against those, but some of the biggest nasties -Dragon Skarmory and Steel Dragonite/Mega Salamence- are neutral to your Fairy STAB anyway.

Is it amazing? Well, if you magically dropped it into some non-Hidden Type meta it would be kinda broken. But in Hidden Type you're going to be frustrated by all the Flying/Steel Pokemon out there, most especially Heatran, especially given Roar Heatran and Whirlwind Skarmory can absolutely stop you even with a Dragon Dance or three already up. Even so, it's nasty offensive pressure and is menacing to a number of other important Pokemon, such as Ghost or Flying Tyranitar.

Of course it's entirely possible ORAS movepool will make it a lot better than this -just giving it Rock Slide would go a long way- so this might be a pessimistic interpretation of its effectiveness in the actual ORAS Hidden Type meta.

 

[insanelegend]

Swampert @ Swampertite
Ability: Damp -> Swift Swim
EVs: 76 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch
- Superpower / Substitute / Bulk Up
Predicted Tier: OU

Rain is one of the most dominant forces in Tier Shift and Mega Swampert just gave them an even greater advantage over other teams. I am predicting Mega Swampert will be OU and Mega Sceptile UU, so my speed EVs are based off of that (Mega Swampert has enough speed to outrun Timid Mega Sceptile which will be a huge threat to rain teams). Compared to the physical Swift Swim pokemon of choice, Kabutops, Mega Swampert is bulkier and has more power (although Kabutops can hold an item). Mega Swampert lacks Swords Dance and Aqua Jet, but makes up for it with two reliable STABs, great coverage in Ice Punch and Superpower, and that bulk. Swampert can easily clean through weakened teams and can take powerful hits, unlike most other rain sweepers. Its three main attacks can win against most teams, while Superpower lets it beat Ferrothorn, Substitute lets it set up a security net on a predicted switch, and Bulk Up letting it boost its amazing attack and good defense through the roof. Even outside of rain it is a monster, able to beat a lot of frailer offensive pokemon 1 on 1. Its main problem is bulky Water-types such as Alomomola that can easily stall it, but these are disposed of easily with teamates like Raikou and Thundurus. When ORAS comes out, be prepared to take on a new rain sweeper that has the typing and stats to do its job.

 

[Ghoul King]

Camomons

Beedrill @ Beedrillite
Ability: Swarm
Go fast and kill hard
Knock Off
Drill Run
U-Turn
Protect

Because double-strength 150 Attack U-Turn is cool and all, but a typing that resists Stealth Rock and two widely effective double strength coverage moves are way, way better than Bug+Poison. Dark and Ground aren't some perfect pair, but Beedrill's movepool isn't exactly amazing so whatever. U-Turn is still there to keep Mega Beedrill able to contribute -even without Adaptability STAB 70 BP off 150 Attack is solid- while switching out, and everything else is pure murder.

A meta in which Mega Beedrill is actually good!

Maybe!

 

[Throbulator36]

Camomons

Beedrill @ Beedrillite
Ability: Swarm
Go fast and kill hard
Knock Off
Drill Run
U-Turn
Protect

Because double-strength 150 Attack U-Turn is cool and all, but a typing that resists Stealth Rock and two widely effective double strength coverage moves are way, way better than Bug+Poison. Dark and Ground aren't some perfect pair, but Beedrill's movepool isn't exactly amazing so whatever. U-Turn is still there to keep Mega Beedrill able to contribute -even without Adaptability STAB 70 BP off 150 Attack is solid- while switching out, and everything else is pure murder.

A meta in which Mega Beedrill is actually good!

Maybe!

you could try this same set in type control(he could well there since he puts holes in walls and has stab knock-off for normal/ghost and doesn't have to run protect)

 

[Ghoul King]

That's... actually a really good point! Not sure why you think Protect would be optional -and also not sure what Mega Beedrill would run over it anyway though maybe ORAS movepool expansion will change that- but it could run literally the same set in Type Control and be actually quite good -and also better able to decide whether it even wants Ground STAB or not though with Adaptability I'd probably keep it unless I decided I wanted to run Brick Break over Protect.

Some calcs!

252+ Atk Adaptability Beedrill Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 146-174 (43.7 - 52%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Physically Defensive Skarmory is not happy to take this hit, though it can soak it and Roost through it -but it does mean it's not safe for it to switch in if it's already injured.

252+ Atk Adaptability Beedrill Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 342-404 (53.2 - 62.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Very nice! Chansey is stupid for staying in or coming in onto Mega Beedrill regardless, but if you arrange it -maybe you've got Zoroark on your team and they assume Beedrill is Zoroark- that's very good!

252+ Atk Adaptability Beedrill Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 164-196 (41.6 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

This is against Mega Slowbro. Very nice.

I was planning on doing even more calcs until it occurred to me that Type Control and Camomons are going to have their own preferred typings for Pokemon and I don't know either meta well enough to properly select some relevant calcs. (I'd guess Heatran prefers Steel/Bug with Flashfire in Type Control, for instance)

But they do illustrate that Mega Beedrill has some real potential in Camomons and Type Control!

 

[Throbulator36]

he wouldn't need protect because type-control is basically all stall and you won't die instantly to toxic and you outspeed a lot of stall mons anyway.

 

[Ghoul King]

Type Control isn't that stall-slanted, and even if it were that would either be an argument that Mega Beedrill is bad in the meta because it isn't useful to stall or an argument that it might help move the meta away from stall at which point you come back to it probably needing protect. Personally I've run some pretty aggressive teams in Type Control and other than one sun-based one having a hard time dealing with Shedinja they've done pretty well against stall.

 

[Throbulator36]

Type Control isn't that stall-slanted, and even if it were that would either be an argument that Mega Beedrill is bad in the meta because it isn't useful to stall or an argument that it might help move the meta away from stall at which point you come back to it probably needing protect. Personally I've run some pretty aggressive teams in Type Control and other than one sun-based one having a hard time dealing with Shedinja they've done pretty well against stall.

I guess that's true. however, in the case you want to run 4 attack moves you can slowpass a substitute to beedrill.

 

[skies]

Now that ORAS is out, what are some popular threats for each metagame guys? Is anything really underwhelming? Something insanely good? Discuss!