-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Other ORAS Metagame Discussion
- Thread starter alexwolf
- Start date
- Status
so Landorous was banned
http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...ess-round-4-genie-in-a-bottle.3538596/page-25
As a result expect to set more balance/stall to rise
expect other wallbreakers to rise: Kube victini, staraptor, manaphy, MegaHeracross, ZardY, Gothitelle, Mega Gard
Expect the following mons to drop in usage: SPD Zapdos, AV Torn-T (LO still popular tho) Cresselia, and Mandibuzz
As for future suspects some things I could see happening/ have heard others talk about:
MegaMetagross retest it was only spared a ban by 3% and it is still threatening
Shadowtag/gothitelle its incredibly matchup based and impossible to play around
Manaphy it is extremely match up based and can 6-0 stall/balance
Mega Altaria extremly versatile bulky and hard hitting
Scald-Adds uneccesary luck elements to the game
Stealth rock makes certain pokemon unviable
not yet released:
Hoopa Unbound- It has obscene attack stats so when released i expect a test for it.
Of the above only tests i really feel confident about happening are metagross and hoopa. Rest only have some small chance
Where do you all see meta going from here?
http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...ess-round-4-genie-in-a-bottle.3538596/page-25
As a result expect to set more balance/stall to rise
expect other wallbreakers to rise: Kube victini, staraptor, manaphy, MegaHeracross, ZardY, Gothitelle, Mega Gard
Expect the following mons to drop in usage: SPD Zapdos, AV Torn-T (LO still popular tho) Cresselia, and Mandibuzz
As for future suspects some things I could see happening/ have heard others talk about:
MegaMetagross retest it was only spared a ban by 3% and it is still threatening
Shadowtag/gothitelle its incredibly matchup based and impossible to play around
Manaphy it is extremely match up based and can 6-0 stall/balance
Mega Altaria extremly versatile bulky and hard hitting
Scald-Adds uneccesary luck elements to the game
Stealth rock makes certain pokemon unviable
not yet released:
Hoopa Unbound- It has obscene attack stats so when released i expect a test for it.
Of the above only tests i really feel confident about happening are metagross and hoopa. Rest only have some small chance
Where do you all see meta going from here?
p2
Banned deucer.
Wallbreakers are absolutely guaranteed to rise, every team I'm building will always have one of the wallbreaker megas or KyuB on it, preparing for Balance is much more necessary now and Balance teams rn are really unprepared for a bunch of stuff, especially Medicham and Heracross, which just shreds those teams.
As for mons dropping, Zapdos is definitely dropping in usage, AV Torn will still be really popular because it's a really nice glue and check for a load of stuff, Cress still has its uses on Stall since it handles most special wallbreakers apart from Mega Garde and Mandibuzz is definitely going to see less usage, but it still does a great job of checking physical attackers.
And suspect tests;
MGross is definitely possible, I kinda wish I voted ban now, but it's definitely not as big a threat as it was at the start of the post-greninja meta
Shadow Tag is possible, but I don't think its as big a problem as people made it out to be in XY and its definitely has not gotten better with the transition to ORAS
A Manaphy suspect is straight up bullshit and should never ever happen
A Mega Altaria suspect is pretty likely, it's pretty annoying to build around because it can run like 4 different sets and they're all amazing sets and it just severly punishes you for not knowing the set or guessing wrong.
Scald and an SR suspect will never happen, pretty sure the council has went over that a few times. Maybe they'll make ladders without them, who knows?
Hoopa-U is insane, its definitely gonna get quickbanned.
Who cares how close metagross was to being banned? It's been like... 2 months and people already want a retest? That's fuckin ridiculous. I don't understand why people are so impatient to let things settle. There is an over eagerness for suspecting stuff that needs to cool off.
It hasn't been one day since the last suspect and people are already on another witch hunt. Stop running around looking for problems in the game and let the game settle dammit. The problems will reveal themselves on their own with time.. so put away your ban hammers for 2 fucking seconds and have a little patience.
Last edited:
For one I agree, Lando I ban opened massive gates for team structures, I'd rather wait before a new suspect.
Just wanted to say that Mega Latias does not really hate Dark-Types. Reflect-Type is a valid option and it completly trolls most Dark-Types. Currently I'm experimenting with a BP-Scoli Lead in combination with CM-Reflect-Type Latias. The result is rather scary since every team without a phazer or Mega Gyara/Sable got owned 6:0. If Scoli gets to +4 even Bisharp (given it has LO) cannot break Latias without a crit.
And to the Lando-I ban: I think I agree with Norne here. Gotta build a new team now and test the meta a bit.
And to the Lando-I ban: I think I agree with Norne here. Gotta build a new team now and test the meta a bit.
I can definitely see it happening only downside is one its a mega hence you can't use other things and the base 100 speed tier quite crowded.
With lando gone which wall breaker do you think most people will turn to?
Mega gard? Mega Hera? Zard Y? Kube? Victini? Manaphy?
I'm really fond of subtini to be honest.
Given that most of them need your mega-slot Kyu-B and Manaphy seem the most splashable options here.
When it comes down to destructive Power Zard or Garde would be my breaker of choice.
Spex-Sylveon might be another option for breaking teams apart.
Another option would be one of the "passive" wallbreakers. Taunt + Toxic/Whisp works wonders.
And CM Clefable is pretty strong aswell. Might be even better at breaking stall than one of the already mentiond breakers.
Seriously if the ORAS OU needs one thing not it is another wallbreaker.
When it comes down to destructive Power Zard or Garde would be my breaker of choice.
Spex-Sylveon might be another option for breaking teams apart.
Another option would be one of the "passive" wallbreakers. Taunt + Toxic/Whisp works wonders.
And CM Clefable is pretty strong aswell. Might be even better at breaking stall than one of the already mentiond breakers.
Seriously if the ORAS OU needs one thing not it is another wallbreaker.
Don't forget to mention Mega Metagross, it still exists and its wallbreaking potential is on par with Landorus-I. Although it takes up a mega slot it does have ridiculous destructive power. Another mon that can substitute for Landorus-I is Nidoking, both fulfilling similar roles on the team, albiet Nidoking with lower SpA and speed in return for another STAB and a more illustrious movepool.
I honestly do not think that Nidoking is OU material. Mega Meta is another story though. Together with Keldeo it forms a rather scary core after all.
And I forgot taunt/toxic Heatran and Gengar etc etc... the list of OU wallbreakers is long.
And I forgot taunt/toxic Heatran and Gengar etc etc... the list of OU wallbreakers is long.
Now that landorus-I is gone, there is actually a legit reason to use the nidos besides the toxic spikes + sheer force combo. Nidoking can be an efficient balance breaker for some select teams thanks to its ridiculous coverage (thunderbolt, ice beam, fire blast, sludge wave, earth power, superpower!). It doesnt have the gargantuous power landorus-I had (lets be honest, nothing does) but it has the enough to do its job. Nidoqueen is kind of similar but far more reliable at setting hazards, have the coveted toxic spikes and stuff. The fairy resistance is also a pretty cool thing to have as well.
Not saying they will be your first option, but now there more than enough reasons to justify their use with landorus-I gone. Will discuss other possible balance breakers later on so some people wont moarn lando departure so much.
Not saying they will be your first option, but now there more than enough reasons to justify their use with landorus-I gone. Will discuss other possible balance breakers later on so some people wont moarn lando departure so much.
Something that Nidoking has recently acquired is the ability to use a mixed movepool, with access to Poison Jab and a high base Atk it can use a mixed moveset to Landorus and break past things like Sylveon and Chansey easier. While the speed tier is a bit lackluster, it still has a lot of things going for it.
Speed is the main problem here I think. Base 85 is nothing in the ORAS OU where 110 is common and 100 is standard. It simply doesnt compare to Zard-Y, which has a good chance to oneshot something even with a neutral hit or Mega Gardevoir which pretty much sits in the same boat. Kyu-B is better in any aspect except it gets worn down with ease.
Fairy resistance sound great at first glance, but almost all fairies have a secondary stab or common coverage that hits super effective on top of beeing faster.
Altaria: +1 192+ Atk Mega Altaria Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Nidoking: 376-444 (124 - 146.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Clefable: looses
Azumaril: 252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Nidoking: 296-350 (97.6 - 115.5%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
Gardevoir: Psyshock (I won't calc this one)
Togekiss (is it even used?): looses
Sylveon: 252+ SpA Choice Specs Sylveon Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Nidoking: 316-372 (104.2 - 122.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO, Sylveon is slower but you won't risk your wallbreaker for that
Mega Diance: 252 SpA Mega Diancie Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Nidoking: 324-382 (106.9 - 126%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Yep... fairy resistance is pretty pointless as the only relevant fairy that looses is Clefable. The only reason it gets usage for would be the hazard resistance.
Fairy resistance sound great at first glance, but almost all fairies have a secondary stab or common coverage that hits super effective on top of beeing faster.
Altaria: +1 192+ Atk Mega Altaria Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Nidoking: 376-444 (124 - 146.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Clefable: looses
Azumaril: 252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Nidoking: 296-350 (97.6 - 115.5%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
Gardevoir: Psyshock (I won't calc this one)
Togekiss (is it even used?): looses
Sylveon: 252+ SpA Choice Specs Sylveon Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Nidoking: 316-372 (104.2 - 122.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO, Sylveon is slower but you won't risk your wallbreaker for that
Mega Diance: 252 SpA Mega Diancie Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Nidoking: 324-382 (106.9 - 126%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Yep... fairy resistance is pretty pointless as the only relevant fairy that looses is Clefable. The only reason it gets usage for would be the hazard resistance.
I think the post-lando meta will shift to the rather defensive wallbreakers instead of those with instant oneshots.
Once those guys are up to +6 entire teams die and stall cannot fight back against them if their phazer is dead.
=> trap the phazer and murder the team with CM Clef or something similar.
The core im currently using pretty much 6:0s entire teams not prepared for it.
Doombringer (Latias) (F) @ Latiasite
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Stored Power
- Calm Mind
- Roost
- Reflect Type
+2 in speed and vert from Scoli and its pretty much over. After that you can start going for +6 with CM and after that even strong special walls like Heatran break.
Bring it on! (Scolipede) (F) @ Focus Sash
Trait: Speed Boost
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Iron Defense
- Substitute
- Protect
- Baton Pass
Get seome boosts and pass them to Latias.
Together with Goth the core has only 2 common threats: Mega Gyara and Mega Sable. Add Sylveon and the entire OU has no chance.
Well, it is cancer-pass... effective as ever against any playstyle.
As example for one of the defensive wallbreaker.
Once those guys are up to +6 entire teams die and stall cannot fight back against them if their phazer is dead.
=> trap the phazer and murder the team with CM Clef or something similar.
The core im currently using pretty much 6:0s entire teams not prepared for it.
Doombringer (Latias) (F) @ Latiasite
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Stored Power
- Calm Mind
- Roost
- Reflect Type
+2 in speed and vert from Scoli and its pretty much over. After that you can start going for +6 with CM and after that even strong special walls like Heatran break.
Bring it on! (Scolipede) (F) @ Focus Sash
Trait: Speed Boost
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Iron Defense
- Substitute
- Protect
- Baton Pass
Get seome boosts and pass them to Latias.
Together with Goth the core has only 2 common threats: Mega Gyara and Mega Sable. Add Sylveon and the entire OU has no chance.
Well, it is cancer-pass... effective as ever against any playstyle.
As example for one of the defensive wallbreaker.
Last edited:
This is true, BUT it has a HUGE weakness to phazers, which many common balance and stall teams carry, whether it be a Dragon Tail Garchomp, or a Whirlwind Skarmory, phazing resets your chain and gives a chance for the other player to beat you out before getting your boosts again.
Did you just suggest quickpass seriously
Getting to +6 with Clefable isn't going to be as easy as you make it sound--yes, it's a big threat but the meta is filled with so many hard hitters that the game isn't as clean-cut as removing the phazer and clean.
Im pretty sure I mentioned CM Clef + trapper as weapon against stall, not ho or balance with their hardhitting mons.
Obviously i won't lead Scoli against a team that can still fight back... even if it is quickpass it is not setup first turn and then win or die.
Back to the main topic, Lando is gone so how will this impact the balance and stall cores which were pressured by it so far?
Mega Venu might be seen more now and Tran aswell. Your opinions?
Obviously i won't lead Scoli against a team that can still fight back... even if it is quickpass it is not setup first turn and then win or die.
Back to the main topic, Lando is gone so how will this impact the balance and stall cores which were pressured by it so far?
Mega Venu might be seen more now and Tran aswell. Your opinions?
Honestly, Heatran was still a huge part of the meta before Lando-I was banned, but Mega-Venu now boasts something very few other mons are able to, checking BOTH Mega-Altaria and Keldeo, while still providing defensive pressure against things like Mega-Lopunny, Clefable, Azumarill, Mega-Diancie, Manaphy, Scizor (Mega and Non Mega), and Thundurus to some extent. All of the mons above were listed in S or A+ in the viability rankings, so it might show up in a lot more balance and stall teams. Although it still handled these mons well earlier and it still wasnt used much, so we will never really know. (Landorus-I wasnt a massive threat to it outside of the somewhat common Psychic).
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Mega Venusaur: 196-231 (53.8 - 63.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Venusaur: 263-309 (72.2 - 84.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
An EP to the face kinda hurts too which means Lando-I simply murderd the core.
And yeah Mega Alt und Keldeo are both checked by it so it seems like a good choice for stall once again. Scizor, I disagree here. If you do not run HP[Fire] or Sleep Powder it is Foddder for SD Sciz.
Manaphy and Thrundrus are quite a big deal. And Thundrus should be counterd hard by it.
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Venusaur: 263-309 (72.2 - 84.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
An EP to the face kinda hurts too which means Lando-I simply murderd the core.
And yeah Mega Alt und Keldeo are both checked by it so it seems like a good choice for stall once again. Scizor, I disagree here. If you do not run HP[Fire] or Sleep Powder it is Foddder for SD Sciz.
Manaphy and Thrundrus are quite a big deal. And Thundrus should be counterd hard by it.
Serebii confirmed Hoopa - and it's Unbound form - are out next month
Get ready for Stall to die
The first images from CoroCoro have leaked and have revealed the first details about the upcoming movie, The Archdjinni of the Rings - Hoopa, due for release in Japan in Summer 2015. In this, it has confirmed the much anticipated and expected movie distribution which is to be Hoopa from July 18th 2015 to September 30th 2015 for Pokémon X, Y, Omega Ruby & Alpha Sapphire and also confirmed the full method of getting Hoopa Unbound in ORAS.
Get ready for Stall to die
Thought it was already borderline dead? ^_^
Hopefully it won't be long before the Unbound form gets banned if it becomes OU. I just can't see that thing be an acceptable addition to the OU tier.
- Status