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Ladder ORAS Monotype Discussion
- Thread starter scpinion
- Start date
- Status
DoW
formally Death on Wings
While choiced pokemon are often considered better in monotype than different metagames due to the possibility of one of your moves hitting all the opponents hard, it still leaves the opponent weak to being walled, set up on or otherwise played around. The ability to run more than one of the same item is very useful in monotype and by no means broken, so I can confirm we won't be introducing an item clause.
It is also general smogon policy iirc. I don't think we should even consider it unless the official metas implement it first.
Could you suspect Shadow Tag, It's already been implemented in official metas. :p
truedrew
Banned deucer.
Unconventional Normal Stall:
Hi it's truedrew here posting an unusual stall core that i have tested for normal.
Porygon2 @ Eviolite
Ability: Download
EVs: 232 HP / 80 Def / 196 SpA
Relaxed/Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Psychic/HP FIRE
- Recover
- Trick Room/Foul Play
- Discharge/Protect/Ice Beam
Audino-Mega @ Audinite
Ability: Healer
EVs: 248 HP / 204 Def / 56 SpD
Calm Nature
- Wish/Rest
- Heal Bell/Flamethrower/Calm Mind
- Dazzling Gleam
- Protect/Sleep Talk
Staraptor @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 232 HP / 252 Def / 24 Spe
Impish Nature
- Brave Bird
- Roost
- Defog/Feather Dance
- Close Combat
So this core revolves around mega audino's amazing mixed bulk and porygon 2's potential to sweep fighting teams after sufficient damage is done.
Trick room completely throws off fighting once cobalion is dead/damaged to the point where nothing resists psychic. Mega medicham is an issue but it is always an issue regardless of the build.
Porygon:
Porygon 2 is an amazing mixed wall who can spong a bunch of hits etc everyone knows what he does. However, his special attack after download is very good and can do solid damage to opposing frailer pokemon. Psychic can do well vs fighting and poison. Hp fire helps vs steel although teammates like Diggersby and Pyroar can help alleviate this issue. Trick Room gives speed control which allows it to turn the tides vs fighting teams in conjunction with Psychic as breloom is no longer an issue as safety goggles staraptor thrashes it. In general foul play can merk sd sweepers who think their safe like pinsir/MScizor etc.
Audino:
An underrated mega, mega audino is a very bulky mixed wall that adds a knock off resist and a fighting neutrality to normal teams as well as acting as a damage soaker. The given set is optimal as it gives mega audino amazing mixed defenses which when coupled with its high hp stat, allows it to eat some heavy hits (calcs can be done if needed), Also the moveset given is to either maximise utility or help it sustain more damage. Wish-tect gives good team utility but has the downside of being heavily susceptible to status as heal bell has only 8pp (can be mitigated by running chansey as well). Rest talk is a staple and allows it to absorb status as well as be a general nuisance as it eats some meaty blows. Calm mind rest talk make it an excellent late game sweeper and gives stall normal an amazing win con if the offensive back bone is killed off. Flamethrower helps vs steel and ferrothorn.
Staraptor:
Raptor is the secondary fighting check and safety goggles allows it to beat breloom (spore no issue/ Thanks to Pk-Kaiser for the suggestion) and generally helps vs physical attackers. Feather dance/defog is damage reduction vs hazard control although i prefer hazard removal on defensive builds. Enough speed to hit 242 to outspeed adamant base 80's.
Team Mates:
Chansey- better wall combo/rocks/utility/Twave
Miltank- Sap sipper + physical wall
Snorlax- Shits on ice/fire with thick fat and curse is nice
W.I.P
Hi it's truedrew here posting an unusual stall core that i have tested for normal.
Porygon2 @ Eviolite
Ability: Download
EVs: 232 HP / 80 Def / 196 SpA
Relaxed/Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Psychic/HP FIRE
- Recover
- Trick Room/Foul Play
- Discharge/Protect/Ice Beam
Audino-Mega @ Audinite
Ability: Healer
EVs: 248 HP / 204 Def / 56 SpD
Calm Nature
- Wish/Rest
- Heal Bell/Flamethrower/Calm Mind
- Dazzling Gleam
- Protect/Sleep Talk
Staraptor @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 232 HP / 252 Def / 24 Spe
Impish Nature
- Brave Bird
- Roost
- Defog/Feather Dance
- Close Combat
So this core revolves around mega audino's amazing mixed bulk and porygon 2's potential to sweep fighting teams after sufficient damage is done.
Trick room completely throws off fighting once cobalion is dead/damaged to the point where nothing resists psychic. Mega medicham is an issue but it is always an issue regardless of the build.
Porygon:
Porygon 2 is an amazing mixed wall who can spong a bunch of hits etc everyone knows what he does. However, his special attack after download is very good and can do solid damage to opposing frailer pokemon. Psychic can do well vs fighting and poison. Hp fire helps vs steel although teammates like Diggersby and Pyroar can help alleviate this issue. Trick Room gives speed control which allows it to turn the tides vs fighting teams in conjunction with Psychic as breloom is no longer an issue as safety goggles staraptor thrashes it. In general foul play can merk sd sweepers who think their safe like pinsir/MScizor etc.
Audino:
An underrated mega, mega audino is a very bulky mixed wall that adds a knock off resist and a fighting neutrality to normal teams as well as acting as a damage soaker. The given set is optimal as it gives mega audino amazing mixed defenses which when coupled with its high hp stat, allows it to eat some heavy hits (calcs can be done if needed), Also the moveset given is to either maximise utility or help it sustain more damage. Wish-tect gives good team utility but has the downside of being heavily susceptible to status as heal bell has only 8pp (can be mitigated by running chansey as well). Rest talk is a staple and allows it to absorb status as well as be a general nuisance as it eats some meaty blows. Calm mind rest talk make it an excellent late game sweeper and gives stall normal an amazing win con if the offensive back bone is killed off. Flamethrower helps vs steel and ferrothorn.
Staraptor:
Raptor is the secondary fighting check and safety goggles allows it to beat breloom (spore no issue/ Thanks to Pk-Kaiser for the suggestion) and generally helps vs physical attackers. Feather dance/defog is damage reduction vs hazard control although i prefer hazard removal on defensive builds. Enough speed to hit 242 to outspeed adamant base 80's.
Team Mates:
Chansey- better wall combo/rocks/utility/Twave
Miltank- Sap sipper + physical wall
Snorlax- Shits on ice/fire with thick fat and curse is nice
W.I.P
Confluxx [Old]
Banned deucer.
Unconventional stall:
Stall is as unconventional as it gets when it comes to Fighting types, however there is a combination of Pokemon and sets that fit the playstyle.
Chesnaught has excellent physical bulk, combined with Leech Seed, Spiky Shield, Drain Punch and Synthesis + Rocky Helmet, this thing could be very annoying to take out. Leftovers over Rocky Helmet with Grass STAB is also an option.
95 and 115 in defenses isn't too terrible considering this thing is meant to be a sweeper. It gets access to Wish and Drain Punch, so that combined with Protect and Toxic can stall out your opponent with the toxic damage or at least get enough damage so a team mate can revenge-kill.
Scrafty has very decent bulk and can work as a bulky sweeper with access to Bulk Up. I'm sure everyone is familiar with the Bulk Up/Drain Punch/Rest/Poison Jab or Knock Off set with the Shed Skin ability potentially giving Scrafty an early wake. If you set up a few Bulk Ups and invest fully in HP and SDef this thing can be very hard to kill if you don't have a super effective move to hit it with.
Cobalion's speed is really good and it's defenses are alright. It can serve as a pretty good support Pokemon with access to Stealth Rock, Taunt and Thunder Wave, also pretty useful against Fairy types thanks to it's Steel typing, although Stall Fighting auto-loses to Fairy anyway.
Excellent speed and access to Will'O'Wisp and Slack Off. Pretty decent mon to potentially outspeed a physical threat and burn it, although Infernape's defenses really aren't all that.
Decent bulk, excellent speed and access to screens to support team mates and the idea of stall on Fighting. Could also run a stall set itself with Toxic, Synthesis, Substitute, Giga Drain or a bulky set-up with Calm Mind, Subsitute, Giga Drain and Focus Blast w/ Leftovers.
Stall is as unconventional as it gets when it comes to Fighting types, however there is a combination of Pokemon and sets that fit the playstyle.
Chesnaught has excellent physical bulk, combined with Leech Seed, Spiky Shield, Drain Punch and Synthesis + Rocky Helmet, this thing could be very annoying to take out. Leftovers over Rocky Helmet with Grass STAB is also an option.
95 and 115 in defenses isn't too terrible considering this thing is meant to be a sweeper. It gets access to Wish and Drain Punch, so that combined with Protect and Toxic can stall out your opponent with the toxic damage or at least get enough damage so a team mate can revenge-kill.
Scrafty has very decent bulk and can work as a bulky sweeper with access to Bulk Up. I'm sure everyone is familiar with the Bulk Up/Drain Punch/Rest/Poison Jab or Knock Off set with the Shed Skin ability potentially giving Scrafty an early wake. If you set up a few Bulk Ups and invest fully in HP and SDef this thing can be very hard to kill if you don't have a super effective move to hit it with.
Cobalion's speed is really good and it's defenses are alright. It can serve as a pretty good support Pokemon with access to Stealth Rock, Taunt and Thunder Wave, also pretty useful against Fairy types thanks to it's Steel typing, although Stall Fighting auto-loses to Fairy anyway.
Excellent speed and access to Will'O'Wisp and Slack Off. Pretty decent mon to potentially outspeed a physical threat and burn it, although Infernape's defenses really aren't all that.
Decent bulk, excellent speed and access to screens to support team mates and the idea of stall on Fighting. Could also run a stall set itself with Toxic, Synthesis, Substitute, Giga Drain or a bulky set-up with Calm Mind, Subsitute, Giga Drain and Focus Blast w/ Leftovers.
Mega Diancie
Fairy types in general are unbeatable with this play-style for Fighting so there's no point in listing them all, however Mega Diancie can be found on Rock as well which is why I listed it.
Psychic can some-what be dealt with by Scrafty, however Mega Gardevoir being part Fairy completely shuts down that idea.
Ironic how I said I wasn't gonna list other Fairy types and here I am on the 3rd Fairy. Anyway this doesn't only represent Fairy but represents Flying as a scarfed variant can pretty much flinch everything to death.
So you get the idea, basically any really fast mon that has an advantage over Fighting can break it.
Fairy types in general are unbeatable with this play-style for Fighting so there's no point in listing them all, however Mega Diancie can be found on Rock as well which is why I listed it.
Psychic can some-what be dealt with by Scrafty, however Mega Gardevoir being part Fairy completely shuts down that idea.
Ironic how I said I wasn't gonna list other Fairy types and here I am on the 3rd Fairy. Anyway this doesn't only represent Fairy but represents Flying as a scarfed variant can pretty much flinch everything to death.
So you get the idea, basically any really fast mon that has an advantage over Fighting can break it.
No point in saying why it's not used. It's so inferior to the standard hyper offensive Fighting and simply a bad idea to run stall Fighting, but the idea is still there.
Hey all! I just wanted to post here to say that open discussion for Metagame Topics is now open on this thread for the next week or so. If you want to talk about the current topic as of now that's fine, but all topics can be talked about now. You may post. Reminder that tiering philosohpy isn't up for discussion.
Freeroamer has stepped down from the Monotype council. Paleo will be replacing him.
Do not use this thread to congratulate.
Do not use this thread to congratulate.
Well, we're a talkative bunch! Seeing as this is a free-for-all discussion week, I figure I'll get us started by asking your opinion on some things.
Pokemon recently celebrated its 20th anniversary and many groups were reflecting on the games, communities, etc. They also announced two new games, Pokemon Sun and Moon, which means the end of ORAS/Gen 6 is in sight! With that, I wanted to see what people thought about the ORAS meta (in general). So, some assorted questions are below. Feel free to expand them and discuss stuff as people (hopefully) post.
What is your favorite part of ORAS compared to past metas? Least Favorite?
Did you like the ORAS meta better or worse than previous metagames? Why?
If you could change 1 thing about the ORAS Mono metagame over the next ~9-10 months, what would it be?
Pokemon recently celebrated its 20th anniversary and many groups were reflecting on the games, communities, etc. They also announced two new games, Pokemon Sun and Moon, which means the end of ORAS/Gen 6 is in sight! With that, I wanted to see what people thought about the ORAS meta (in general). So, some assorted questions are below. Feel free to expand them and discuss stuff as people (hopefully) post.
What is your favorite part of ORAS compared to past metas? Least Favorite?
Did you like the ORAS meta better or worse than previous metagames? Why?
If you could change 1 thing about the ORAS Mono metagame over the next ~9-10 months, what would it be?
I guess I'll be the first to go ahead and respond to this.
I think my favorite part of ORAS compared to previous metagames was that it required more thought. There was no more "slap a Scarf or Choiced item on 6 Dragons and click away or just mindlessly use Rest with Vaporeon because of permanent weather." I hated Dragon and Water (Water more in all honesty) in Gen 5 because I thought they were ridiculous compared to the other types. At the same time, I felt like ORAS was limiting in some way. I'm not sure how to explain it but I think people will know what I mean when I saw I felt that the power and speed creeps made things limiting. For a majority of types in Gen 5 I felt like I had a bit more freedom to exercise, I didn't feel like there was quite as many "staples" as in ORAS.
I definitely like the ORAS metagame more than previous metagames. Gen 5 was full of perma weather, XY had things such as TFlame, Swift Swim Water with Damp Rock and Ground with Smooth Rock. I found the last two worst than TFlame though; I remember running Surskit Water teams and still getting really high on the ladder just because I was spamming Swift Swim and I remember all the replays people showed of 8 turn Ground also setting up Gravity. I felt really bad for Poison and Elec users when Gravity + Smooth Rock were running around. They definitely still have it tough but it's much nicer than before.
If I could change one thing about the ORAS Mono metagame over the next 9-10 months, I'd look at a Hoopa-U suspect. Honestly I haven't run Ghost in ages and it's because I have the chance to run into Psychic running that thing. Yeah, no thanks. While I think the meta is the healthiest it's ever been, I just don't think you should ever think about running a type that is actually considered solid and underrated among most and feel that way about one mon in particular. Maybe that's just me but I think Kammi could chime in on that last part and give her thoughts regarding Hoopa and a potential suspect.
DoW
formally Death on Wings
I think it's very interesting to discuss the differences between ORAS and BW mono, if only because they're extremely different.
BW OU Mono is a meta that's unbalanced. There's no denying it, the stronger types like Water will simply always have an advantage over weaker types like Flying. However, I'm not sure recent tournament play has really done the metagame justice. Types like Fire, which have definite weaknesses but that can nonetheless be very strong, have rarely if ever been used, and I think ladder play and league games back in the day were far more diverse, and you needed to prepare for far more threats. BW OU Mono is unbalanced to the point where there's nothing you can do to fix it, sure, but I think it can still be a very fun and diverse tier if you really try to find ways to beat the "big bads" like Water, Dragon and so forth.
ORAS Mono is a very different story. The release of X and Y brought with it, I'd say, three major changes: Fairies (stopping dragons from being OP), changes to weather-setting mechanics (solving that obvious problem), and Defog, making way for flying as a dominant force, and stopping Stealth Rock from being such a bad move in terms of hitting certain types far harder than others. I'd argue (and have argued in the past) that in many ways, the current metagame is balanced to an equivalent degree as many of the major tiers. Type matchup honestly doesn't mean a huge deal at high-level play, and I think the council has basically done everything needed to make it a balanced meta, even if there are a few pokemon such as Hoopa-U, M-Scizor, Landorus-I, Keldeo etc. that it's possible to argue the meta would be better without. My view is that, rather than making the metagame intrinsically unbalanced, types force players to make a conscious decision as to how much risk they're willing to take - do you go with a Water stall team with only a few bad matchups but that's unoriginal and that most players will know exactly how to approach, or do you go for something like Fire that offers higher risk and higher reward based on both matchup and how you play throughout the game?
This post isn't really leading anywhere, I just thought I'd put some thoughts down on paper and see if people agreed. I certainly agree with quite a bit of what Omega's saying, though there's maybe been a small move away from using the same 6 mons on every team of a certain type recently, which is a good thing.
BW OU Mono is a meta that's unbalanced. There's no denying it, the stronger types like Water will simply always have an advantage over weaker types like Flying. However, I'm not sure recent tournament play has really done the metagame justice. Types like Fire, which have definite weaknesses but that can nonetheless be very strong, have rarely if ever been used, and I think ladder play and league games back in the day were far more diverse, and you needed to prepare for far more threats. BW OU Mono is unbalanced to the point where there's nothing you can do to fix it, sure, but I think it can still be a very fun and diverse tier if you really try to find ways to beat the "big bads" like Water, Dragon and so forth.
ORAS Mono is a very different story. The release of X and Y brought with it, I'd say, three major changes: Fairies (stopping dragons from being OP), changes to weather-setting mechanics (solving that obvious problem), and Defog, making way for flying as a dominant force, and stopping Stealth Rock from being such a bad move in terms of hitting certain types far harder than others. I'd argue (and have argued in the past) that in many ways, the current metagame is balanced to an equivalent degree as many of the major tiers. Type matchup honestly doesn't mean a huge deal at high-level play, and I think the council has basically done everything needed to make it a balanced meta, even if there are a few pokemon such as Hoopa-U, M-Scizor, Landorus-I, Keldeo etc. that it's possible to argue the meta would be better without. My view is that, rather than making the metagame intrinsically unbalanced, types force players to make a conscious decision as to how much risk they're willing to take - do you go with a Water stall team with only a few bad matchups but that's unoriginal and that most players will know exactly how to approach, or do you go for something like Fire that offers higher risk and higher reward based on both matchup and how you play throughout the game?
This post isn't really leading anywhere, I just thought I'd put some thoughts down on paper and see if people agreed. I certainly agree with quite a bit of what Omega's saying, though there's maybe been a small move away from using the same 6 mons on every team of a certain type recently, which is a good thing.
Overall I think (late) ORAS turned out really well. Probably my second favorite monotype meta after BW.
My favorite part about this meta is definitely the versatility. ORAS definitely has the most viable types than the other metas, as even the 'bad' ones can hold their one in certain match ups now. Least favorite had to be mega Sab, I find the mon in itself to be extremely uncompetitive.
Compared to the lack of meta control we had in XY, I think ORAS faired very well this year.
My favorite part about this meta is definitely the versatility. ORAS definitely has the most viable types than the other metas, as even the 'bad' ones can hold their one in certain match ups now. Least favorite had to be mega Sab, I find the mon in itself to be extremely uncompetitive.
Compared to the lack of meta control we had in XY, I think ORAS faired very well this year.
Here goes nothin.
So compared to a lot of the vets of this tier, I'm still considered pretty new to mono. I wasnt around for BW or the beginning of ORAS so I never had knowledge of what the tier used to be like. The fact that I cought on pretty quickly and have been able to continuously get better at the tier truly does relate the job scp and the council and any other auth have done. Especially in a tier like monotype where it is especially hard to really try and mimic a balanced meta.
I guess I could say I had a pretty love hate relationship with the mega altaria meta. I loved it because it helped me learn a new type and get top 25 on the ladder with like 5 alts lol, but at the same time, it was ofc really depressing to battle against. But yeah that meta was where I learned everything about mono and grew as a player. Leagues did help me as well and I'm very thankful to have been brought into the community that way because I wouldn't be where I am without the help I recieved. (Shoutouts to the boys back in AM, I dont think a lot of you guys know how much you helped me.)
As far as how the tier is currently doing, I think this current meta is as balanced as the tier has ever been. As far as hoopa goes, I personally dont have an issue with it. I will say again that we look miles stronger as a tier with hoopa in it than without it. Yeah there is for sure a case to get it banned but the more we cope with it and adapt to it like we have been doing, the more the tier thrives. Not having to ban strong mons like hoopa and being able to adapt to them like we've been doing benefits the tier so much. I did vote for mega sab to get banned but again, take a step back and think. We've learned to cope with it and find ways to deal with sab which makes our playerbase look phenominal.
I think water and psychic are probably the two powerhouses currently but the high ladder types seem to balance each other out pretty well. Psy and water are pretty even against each other. Mega pedo and gyra and super threatening and water has very lite for mega garde. Psy has slight edge over flying with hoopa and mega garde but I think flying can certainly win that matchup with things like mega gyra and zard Y. Steel has trouble with water and fighting but has a pretty even matchup vs flying and psy and I guess you could say it can beat fighting pretty often with access to doublade, mega sciz, and scarf mag. Fighting is generally a foolproof type to beat the majority of the mid and lower tier types but it struggles with the two most common types which ofc balances it out. All of the mid ladder type like dragon, ground, dark, bug, fairy etc. Are pretty effective when used correctly to balance out the top tier types which I think is really important. Psy is really good but I dont think its too far beyond the other types to merit some sort of nerf. And personally I don't think banning hoopa would solve that because all that would do is make flying better which we dont need.
SO YEAH, that was just my story about the community and thoughts about the tier as a whole.
Solid stuff lads.
So compared to a lot of the vets of this tier, I'm still considered pretty new to mono. I wasnt around for BW or the beginning of ORAS so I never had knowledge of what the tier used to be like. The fact that I cought on pretty quickly and have been able to continuously get better at the tier truly does relate the job scp and the council and any other auth have done. Especially in a tier like monotype where it is especially hard to really try and mimic a balanced meta.
I guess I could say I had a pretty love hate relationship with the mega altaria meta. I loved it because it helped me learn a new type and get top 25 on the ladder with like 5 alts lol, but at the same time, it was ofc really depressing to battle against. But yeah that meta was where I learned everything about mono and grew as a player. Leagues did help me as well and I'm very thankful to have been brought into the community that way because I wouldn't be where I am without the help I recieved. (Shoutouts to the boys back in AM, I dont think a lot of you guys know how much you helped me.)
As far as how the tier is currently doing, I think this current meta is as balanced as the tier has ever been. As far as hoopa goes, I personally dont have an issue with it. I will say again that we look miles stronger as a tier with hoopa in it than without it. Yeah there is for sure a case to get it banned but the more we cope with it and adapt to it like we have been doing, the more the tier thrives. Not having to ban strong mons like hoopa and being able to adapt to them like we've been doing benefits the tier so much. I did vote for mega sab to get banned but again, take a step back and think. We've learned to cope with it and find ways to deal with sab which makes our playerbase look phenominal.
I think water and psychic are probably the two powerhouses currently but the high ladder types seem to balance each other out pretty well. Psy and water are pretty even against each other. Mega pedo and gyra and super threatening and water has very lite for mega garde. Psy has slight edge over flying with hoopa and mega garde but I think flying can certainly win that matchup with things like mega gyra and zard Y. Steel has trouble with water and fighting but has a pretty even matchup vs flying and psy and I guess you could say it can beat fighting pretty often with access to doublade, mega sciz, and scarf mag. Fighting is generally a foolproof type to beat the majority of the mid and lower tier types but it struggles with the two most common types which ofc balances it out. All of the mid ladder type like dragon, ground, dark, bug, fairy etc. Are pretty effective when used correctly to balance out the top tier types which I think is really important. Psy is really good but I dont think its too far beyond the other types to merit some sort of nerf. And personally I don't think banning hoopa would solve that because all that would do is make flying better which we dont need.
SO YEAH, that was just my story about the community and thoughts about the tier as a whole.
Solid stuff lads.
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Hmm...The ORAS metagame...where should I start? I do say that starting with X/Y, the nerf of weather was a huge improvement. The meta in BW or BW2 was very much unbalanced to the point weather was used throughout the entire battle. Drizzle, Drought, and Sandstream were often spammed giving Fire, Water, and Rock/Ground/Steel types a lot more play. Sandstorm was very annoying getting off residual damage every turn when you don't have Leftovers. Generation 5, rain just dominated the metagame. Genesect was absolutely horrible. Ferrothorn had grown more useage with the help of Politoed, along with Scizor. Additionally, Ferrothorn was more annoying last Gen than 6th Gen. With access to Dream World, made Politoed and Ninetails the most annoying Pokemon to deal with. I do remember there was some discussion about banning teams that have both Drizzle + Swift Swim together. They've become highly more viable in OU. Excadrill made a huge impact to Generation 5 because of Sand Rush having the exact same effect as Swift Swim did and with the help of Tyranitar or Hippowdon, it was almost a nightmare for other Pokemon to deal with. After a Swords Dance, it's over and it was to the point it had to be an uber Pokemon Gen 5. Hmm...the Rotom formes getting types in Gen 5 was kind of nice as well. That way, they don't have to spinblock when there's hazards on your field because at the start of Gen 4, all formes were Electric / Ghost types. Psyshock was helpful in putting a stop to bulky special walls like Chansey and Blissey.
Just all together, Dream World Abilities made a huge impact and changed the metagame a lot. Making Pokemon that were completely terrible such as Sableye for example, good now. Generation 5 introduced a long-term planning and strategy with good teammates. There has been a huge variety of playstyles such as hyper offense, balanced, stall, bulky offense, and much more. Weather had made many Pokemon viable due to it extending the entire battle.
Another thing I would like to add is that Dragon was seriously annoying, especially when I was in the Battle Subway in the Wifi train battling against players that had a spam of Garchomp, Salamence, Dragonite, Haxorus, etc. It was just a pain to deal with Choice Scarf Dragons and it wasn't as fun as I would expect it to be at all.
With X/Y introduced Fairy-types, thank god. Those beautiful little Pokemons tamed those annoying Dragon-types. Talonflame was a huge mess to deal with. That thing was able to deal with many types along with Gale Wings, excellent dual typing, and given it has Swords Dance was horrible. Mega Kanga and other OP mons went bye bye. I do say with the added Mega Evolutions, made some types more viable than others. Defog became another entry hazard remover, which Flying-types became more usable. Generally, Steel got a huge buff because of (I don't know when Aegislash was type banned nor did I have experience with it on Steel so idk) Mega Mawile, Mega Aggron, and Mega Scizor. To me, I know that I recently got into Monotype as of November 2014, but that type was incredible. Playing on the ladder with Steel, I ran into a bunch of opposing Steel-types, Fairy, Fighting, Flying, and Water (Mid 1500 mark).
ORAS, I feel is much more of a breather to various types in the metagame. Besides the Pokemon that were banned such as Mega Metagross, (excluding rebanning Mega Mawile), Mega Slowbro, Mega Altaria, and Mega Salamence, and Greninga it has given more teams to function better and the metagame more balanced. Smooth Rock was the most important thing I really wanted to get out and have Monotype look at. I saw how terrible it was when I laddered due to the Hippowdon+Landorus-I+Excadrill core. With the new Mega Evolutions, Normal-type finally got itself out in the open tbh. I forgot that with Mega Kanga not being allowed, Normal was actually the only type to function without a mega until Mega Lopunny, Pidgeot, and Audina came along.
With the banlist that we have and the sorts of moves that were introduced in ORAS such as Gyarados getting Crunch for example in a way made things a little more fair for all types. We're able to freely use and explore more sets that could be proven viable. I remember testing out Calm Mind + Rest Sylveon not too long ago and it was okay to say the least.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/monotype-334997479
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/monotype-335240045
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/monotype-335218225
My favorite part was ORAS bringing more diversity to the table. It allowed for us to explore more sets that could work in the current metagame along with actually planning out strategies. I guess I already explained why it was better than the previous Gen already.
One change...I don't think there's really anything I do want to change about the metagame. A while ago, I was really looking forward to a Hoop-Unbound suspect which it didn't get. I hope that Sun/Moon really brings something that'll help other types (one example is actually make Ice resistant to water...or make them neutral to Rock).
Just all together, Dream World Abilities made a huge impact and changed the metagame a lot. Making Pokemon that were completely terrible such as Sableye for example, good now. Generation 5 introduced a long-term planning and strategy with good teammates. There has been a huge variety of playstyles such as hyper offense, balanced, stall, bulky offense, and much more. Weather had made many Pokemon viable due to it extending the entire battle.
Another thing I would like to add is that Dragon was seriously annoying, especially when I was in the Battle Subway in the Wifi train battling against players that had a spam of Garchomp, Salamence, Dragonite, Haxorus, etc. It was just a pain to deal with Choice Scarf Dragons and it wasn't as fun as I would expect it to be at all.
With X/Y introduced Fairy-types, thank god. Those beautiful little Pokemons tamed those annoying Dragon-types. Talonflame was a huge mess to deal with. That thing was able to deal with many types along with Gale Wings, excellent dual typing, and given it has Swords Dance was horrible. Mega Kanga and other OP mons went bye bye. I do say with the added Mega Evolutions, made some types more viable than others. Defog became another entry hazard remover, which Flying-types became more usable. Generally, Steel got a huge buff because of (I don't know when Aegislash was type banned nor did I have experience with it on Steel so idk) Mega Mawile, Mega Aggron, and Mega Scizor. To me, I know that I recently got into Monotype as of November 2014, but that type was incredible. Playing on the ladder with Steel, I ran into a bunch of opposing Steel-types, Fairy, Fighting, Flying, and Water (Mid 1500 mark).
ORAS, I feel is much more of a breather to various types in the metagame. Besides the Pokemon that were banned such as Mega Metagross, (excluding rebanning Mega Mawile), Mega Slowbro, Mega Altaria, and Mega Salamence, and Greninga it has given more teams to function better and the metagame more balanced. Smooth Rock was the most important thing I really wanted to get out and have Monotype look at. I saw how terrible it was when I laddered due to the Hippowdon+Landorus-I+Excadrill core. With the new Mega Evolutions, Normal-type finally got itself out in the open tbh. I forgot that with Mega Kanga not being allowed, Normal was actually the only type to function without a mega until Mega Lopunny, Pidgeot, and Audina came along.
With the banlist that we have and the sorts of moves that were introduced in ORAS such as Gyarados getting Crunch for example in a way made things a little more fair for all types. We're able to freely use and explore more sets that could be proven viable. I remember testing out Calm Mind + Rest Sylveon not too long ago and it was okay to say the least.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/monotype-334997479
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/monotype-335240045
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/monotype-335218225
My favorite part was ORAS bringing more diversity to the table. It allowed for us to explore more sets that could work in the current metagame along with actually planning out strategies. I guess I already explained why it was better than the previous Gen already.
One change...I don't think there's really anything I do want to change about the metagame. A while ago, I was really looking forward to a Hoop-Unbound suspect which it didn't get. I hope that Sun/Moon really brings something that'll help other types (one example is actually make Ice resistant to water...or make them neutral to Rock).
Oh, one more thing. My apologies for the double post but:
Static Zapdos
Flame Body Moltres
Snow Cloak Articuno
Abilities are released and are now available to use. Go wild.
Static Zapdos
Flame Body Moltres
Snow Cloak Articuno
Abilities are released and are now available to use. Go wild.
Tbh, I doubt we'll see them being used a lot. The huge one is Static Zapdos, but I prefer Pressure because you're able to win Stealth Rock wars vs things like Chansey and Hippowdon. Moltres is still outclassed by Zard-Y on both Fire & Flying, and unfortunately, Snow Cloak's banned (I've tried to use it before D:)
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Believe me, dealt with the annoying Pressure Zapdos with Scarf Excadrill and stalled me out with Roost. Was very upset about missing one of Rock Slides to the point it was gg for me.
Static Zapdos would be pretty good on Electric where Physical Defensive Zapdos has some solid usage.
InfernapeTropius11
get on my level
Pressure doesn't deplete the PP of moves that don't target the Pressure mon, so it doesn't actually change anything in Stealth Rock wars. It would only be useful in the scenario Zapdos takes less than half damage from an 8-16 PP move that it wants to stall out, otherwise Static will likely be preferred for the decent para chance on contact moves (helpful for ParaFlinch Togekiss too!).
I tested it with Bondie like 10 minutes ago and it does affect Stealth Rock. It doesn't affect Roost / Heal Bell tho so I removed that
BlackJak
formerly Balanced Break
You're wrong, pressure does lower the PP of the Pokemon thats targeting it. Technically it is targeting the mon.
I noticed while using Zapdos that Static is incompatible with Defog, so that's that
I'll go ahead and answer scp's questions for myself first :] (apologies for interrupting the Zapdos conversation, by the way)
I like ORAS currently. I think the metagame is very balanced, moreso than it has been in the past year or so, and it's doing really well in terms of getting Monotype out there in the general Smogon community. I didn't like it at all when it first started out (haha Zard X Smooth Rock and Greninja kms) but it's turned into a really nice and balanced metagame. XY was probably more exciting (throwback to when Shaymin Sky got unbanned), but also more limited in terms of type usage, so I think that ORAS is a good step forward.
My least favorite part is definitely the generic teambuilds appearing in all types. There seems to be less innovation in general, and more people are claiming there are "right" and "wrong" ways to run certain types. Along with this comes the "necessities" on each type, some of which have been around for a long time, but some of which seem to be new. Since when could someone say "build a Ground team" and 90% of the players in the metagame rattle off the same 6 mons? It seems a little depressing. Anyways, my favorite part WAS Ghost's newfound viability. For the period of time after the Zard X ban, my favorite type finally had its chance to "shine" in the meta as a decently good upper-mid-tier type. This glorious title lasted all of about 5 weeks, and then Hoopa-U was released.
If anything, I would really like to see a suspect on Hoopa. I don't know if it's banworthy (in fact, I think it probably isn't), but I do know that Psychic vs Ghost used to be one of the best "uneven" matchups in the metagame. Both teams had a great chance at winning if both sides played well, and those games were always fun; Meloetta evened out the field just enough to give Psychic that healthy edge against Ghost. Mega Sableye gave Ghost somewhat of a chance against Dark teams, even though it's definitely not feasible to win against a top-tier Dark player (bar hax). But now Hoopa has thrown both matchups into disarray, and several more to boot. Hoopa-U's terrifying movepool and power is enough to threaten almost any type, given that the Psychic or Dark user is running the right moves. I know there has been a lot of theorymon'ing on this topic, a lot of 4MSS, a lot of speed tier talk, but I feel that a suspect would really help clear things up once and for all.
tl;dr ORAS is great, but why not suspect Hoopa-U, the last big remaining question mark in the meta?
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