Resource ORAS NU Viability Rankings

[Aasgier]

The only pokemon in the tier that I know of that it counters are Sneasel, Pawniard, Klinklang, Kangaskhan, and SD Samurott. It's set up fodder for CM Psychic types, can't switch into any other physical attackers because it is either not bulky enough or fears their coverage, and is, as I said before, extremely passive. It relies on Scald burns for residual damage and mildly upsets you with Circle Throw phasing. It only has two usable sets, one being resttalk which isn't as effective as it once was (as I've explained) and specs which only has small niche over other, better specially based Water-types, such as Ludicolo, Samurott, and even Seismitoad, with its access to a secondary Fighting-type STAB and Vacuum Wave. I'm not saying it's especially bad by any mean, it just lost a HUGE niche with Gatr leaving.

I do agree RestTalk Wrath is setup bait to the fullest though for various mons, varying from Mismagius to Musharna, which is why I don't like that set and I would fully agree with a drop for Wrath if that was all it could do alongside the Choice Specs set to counter the aforementioned mons. But the beauty is, it doesn't - Wrath just counters those mons due to a virtue of bulk and typing, as long as it carries a Fighting STAB of some sort.
As such you are pretty much free to test out gimmicks with Wrath, and I think this one is pretty fun.

Poliwrath @ Life Orb
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Brick Break
- Waterfall
- Ice Punch
- Bulk Up

Bulk Up Poliwrath. The best set? No. But very few Psychics actually want to set up on it.
Xatu really can't switch into Ice Punch nor Bulk Up and has to pray for Flinch hax (assuming no SR, otherwise it's just dead if it switches into LO Ice Punch, Jynx is flat out OHKO'd by Life Orb Brick Break, and Musharna and Uxie have no hope to win if they carry Psyshock (which CM variants often do) and switch into Bulk Up. Mespirit is in a similar vein but far more likely to carry Psychic instead of Psyshock.
It appears to be outclassed by Gurdurr at first, but it's not as crippled by Knock Off, and has a cool secondary staff to defeat things Gurdurr has no hope to, like MegaRupt.

 

[DouglasFalcon]

I do agree RestTalk Wrath is setup bait to the fullest though for various mons, varying from Mismagius to Musharna, which is why I don't like that set and I would fully agree with a drop for Wrath if that was all it could do alongside the Choice Specs set to counter the aforementioned mons. But the beauty is, it doesn't - Wrath just counters those mons due to a virtue of bulk and typing, as long as it carries a Fighting STAB of some sort.
As such you are pretty much free to test out gimmicks with Wrath, and I think this one is pretty fun.

Poliwrath @ Life Orb
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Brick Break
- Waterfall
- Ice Punch
- Bulk Up

Bulk Up Poliwrath. The best set? No. But very few Psychics actually want to set up on it.
Xatu really can't switch into Ice Punch nor Bulk Up and has to pray for Flinch hax (assuming no SR, otherwise it's just dead if it switches into LO Ice Punch, Jynx is flat out OHKO'd by Life Orb Brick Break, and Musharna and Uxie have no hope to win if they carry Psyshock (which CM variants often do) and switch into Bulk Up. Mespirit is in a similar vein but far more likely to carry Psychic instead of Psyshock.
It appears to be outclassed by Gurdurr at first, but it's not as crippled by Knock Off, and has a cool secondary staff to defeat things Gurdurr has no hope to, like MegaRupt.

Such a set is very easily worn down by hitting constantly Poliwrath and prevent him to set up because of its lack of recovery
Max HP and Life Orb don't work too well toghether, especially if your only hope to get some health back is hoping that the opponent tries to burn you with Scald lol
I don't think this Poliwrath set is good at all, other Poli sets like RestTalk or Special are better, and they're not even that good on this metagame

 

[Aasgier]

You can also run Leftovers if you prefer that, or Splash Plate, though.

But yes, I agree it isn't the best set but the fact Poliwrath can run it and still check Sneasel & co effectively makes sure you can't set up on it. The biggest flaw of RestTalk is that one can, especially something like Mismagius.

 

[Punchshroom]

You can also run Leftovers if you prefer that, or Splash Plate, though.

But yes, I agree it isn't the best set but the fact Poliwrath can run it and still check Sneasel & co effectively makes sure you can't set up on it. The biggest flaw of RestTalk is that one can, especially something like Mismagius.

If I wanted a more offensive Poliwrath that still checked the likes of Samurott and Sneasel, I'd probably use the special sets (Specs or Rain sweeper) since they have better attacking moves (Hydro Pump, Focus Blast, Ice Beam > Waterfall, Brick Break, Ice Punch).

Arguably the bigger issue with Poliwrath is that the threats it walls can be responded to with more effective Pokemon now, plus the fact that there aren't even a lot of Pokemon Poliwrath comfortably / exclusively walls in this meta. The most prominent Pokemon I see Poliwrath stopping are Sneasel, physical Samurott, (physical) Carracosta, Barbaracle, and Pawniard. When I say 'more effective Pokemon' I mean Pokemon that either contributes more to the table or needs less holes to patch. For example, Sneasel responses include mons like defensive Mawile, Hariyama, and Carracosta, which have less weaknesses and/or more important resists. Mantine, Gourgeist, and Pelipper can stop physical Samurott while being one of the best switch-ins to Mega Camerupt and Fighting-types in the tier, respectively. Quagsire alone walls 3 important mons that Poliwrath wants to wall (Sneasel, Costa, and Pawniard) while boasting Unaware and reliable recovery. If your bulky team has slight issues with Barbaracle, due to the uncertainty of whether it is carrying Grass Knot or Cross Chop as coverage, you can still scout it with Quagsire / Seismitoad + Ferroseed / Vileplume, or just put Seed Bomb on Gourgeist and call it a day.

Basically, I feel Poliwrath is used only to collectively wall these certain threats at once, because otherwise it doesn't warrant much use over more specialized counters that offer more utility or are easier to support. That said, its offensive potential is pretty unique to it, so while Poliwrath warrants a drop I wouldn't put it too far down, maybe ~B Rank (B- seems a bit much but I wouldn't strongly object).

 

[Deej Dy]

I'd like to propose to move Seismatoad from A to A+ (despite never knowing if the "E" or "I" goes first). When all Megas and Heliolisk+Virizion were present and had the tier in chaos, this wise, old toad up and croaked (...I'm sorry...) in terms of usage. Now is different though, Now toad is back at it again with its phenomenal typing and variability. Archeops and Klingklang currently run this tier and what better thing to wall it besides a herpes infested toad?

Here are some calcs; It is worth noting I run special attacking toad to salvage its decent speed tier.
+1 252+ Atk Klinklang Return vs. 200 HP / 252+ Def Seismitoad: 132-156 (32.9 - 38.9%) -- 6.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ Atk Klinklang Gear Grind (2 hits) vs. 200 HP / 252+ Def Seismitoad: 96-114 (23.9 - 28.4%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery

Nice try KlongKlung... keep your 85% accuracy moves and shitty movepool to yourself, this is TOADTOWN

What about that prehistoric bitch of a burd? Yeah its running rampant now that its natural predator Megalix is gone. What better way to "flip it the burd" than slapping a greasy old toad on your team?

252 Atk Archeops Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 200 HP / 252+ Def Seismitoad: 165-195 (41.1 - 48.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Sure it's not an extreme counter like a Rhydon, but in conjunction with a Steel/Rock type, Toad can keep ol' Choppy guessing until its worn down into defeatist.

Also can deal some good dommage and strong wall Mawile, Garbodor, and Samurott, and Carracosta/Barbaracle, bar max attack seed bomb Garbodor. It can also soft check a good amount of mons including Tauros and Kangaskhan.

Special defense sets are also quite viable if you have problems with Camels

252+ SpA Sheer Force Camerupt Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Seismitoad: 196-232 (47.4 - 56.1%) -- 27.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
and in return
8 SpA Seismitoad Scald vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 292-348 (84.8 - 101.1%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
I just love how customizable this toad can be
-Max Special Attack and speed + Endeavor/HP electric/ Sludge Bomb/ Grass knot-Max Defense and Hp + Knock-off/Toxic/HP electric
-Max Special Defense and Hp+Knock-off/Toxic/HP electric
-Max Hp and Mixed Special and Physical bulk

All the variability makes it hard to calc a K.O if you don't know its spread. I would also argue it is the best rock setter in the tier combining bulk + half-decent speed, unlike its frail counterpart Archeops and its slow AF counterpart Camelrupty.

This thing is so damn reliable and customizable its ridiculous, anyways if you want a solid Stealth rocker and STD positive Sidekick, Toad is your man.

Deejles

 

[Funbot28]

Who is better Kanga or Tauros?

 

[kay]

As far as viability goes, they're the same. (A+)

Now as far as use goes, they're two very different mons. Tauros is used for his great speed tier and ability to sweep, whereas Kanga is used for his priority, bulk, and ability to chunk targets with Silk Scarf Double-Edges. Both are very solid mons, but neither are better then the other. It comes down to what you need and what you want

 

[Relaxed Dedenne]

I Nomanate Pignite for C- Rank​

SHOW DEM MUSSLES (Pignite) @ Life Orb/Choice Scarf/Choice Band
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 44 HP / 252 Atk / 212 Spe (To Speed Creep Base 90s Univiested)
Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Superpower
- Head Smash
- Sucker Punch/Poison Jab/Wild Charge
(No Rektless ) Either way this thing is underused, I'm not saying its a huge threat but it has a nitch it is a bit outclassed by Gurdurr besides the Fire Stab and more of a move poll, But it can still do a bit of damage with its stab Head Smash kills any flying types in your way Sucker Punch for Priorty/Poison Jab for Fairys/Wild Charge for Waters 92 base Attack is not half bad. and thick fat is better in my opinon for tanking Spec Typhlo Eruption at full hp, And last of all Sneasel being a threat it can take it on easly

252 Atk Life Orb Pignite Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Camerupt: 203-239 (59 - 69.4%) - guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Eruption (150 BP) vs. 44 HP / 0 SpD Thick Fat Pignite: 131-155 (39.4 - 46.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO <--(Yummy )
252 Atk Life Orb Pignite Superpower vs. 200 HP / 252+ Def Seismitoad: 175-208 (43.6 - 51.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Pignite Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Scyther: 328-385 (95.3 - 111.9%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO

 

[HJAD]

I Nomanate Pignite for C- Rank​

SHOW DEM MUSSLES (Pignite) @ Life Orb/Choice Scarf/Choice Band
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 44 HP / 252 Atk / 212 Spe (To Speed Creep Base 90s Univiested)
Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Superpower
- Head Smash
- Sucker Punch/Poison Jab/Wild Charge
(No Rektless ) Either way this thing is underused, I'm not saying its a huge threat but it has a nitch it is a bit outclassed by Gurdurr besides the Fire Stab and more of a move poll, But it can still do a bit of damage with its stab Head Smash kills any flying types in your way Sucker Punch for Priorty/Poison Jab for Fairys/Wild Charge for Waters 92 base Attack is not half bad. and thick fat is better in my opinon for tanking Spec Typhlo Eruption at full hp, And last of all Sneasel being a threat it can take it on easly

252 Atk Life Orb Pignite Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Camerupt: 203-239 (59 - 69.4%) - guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Eruption (150 BP) vs. 44 HP / 0 SpD Thick Fat Pignite: 131-155 (39.4 - 46.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO <--(Yummy )
252 Atk Life Orb Pignite Superpower vs. 200 HP / 252+ Def Seismitoad: 175-208 (43.6 - 51.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Pignite Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Scyther: 328-385 (95.3 - 111.9%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO

The same pignite thats outclassed by the s rank hariyama?

252+ Atk Hariyama Close Combat vs. 200 HP / 252+ Def Seismitoad: 177-208 (44.1 - 51.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
^means that we also do more damage vs Mega Camel than pignite
252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Eruption (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Thick Fat Hariyama: 118-139 (27.5 - 32.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252+ Atk Hariyama Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Scyther: 364-432 (106.1 - 125.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
^why would you stay in on a bulky sd scyther with a fighting mon idk, but hariyama can do the exact same thing as pignite, but take hits better


basically, why run pignite when you can run hariyama :s

 

[Deej Dy]

I personally prefer Monferno anyway if you are talking about dealing damage (Access to Nasty Plot and Swords dance with greater speed) and it can be a better Typh counter with Eviolite and reliable recovery in Slack off and even Stealth rocks if you choose. Pignite should never ever be ranked above Monferno IMO and I'm sure Realistic Waters would agree. I personally think Pignite should be E rank and unlisted, as it is outclassed by nearly everything else in every single category in the tier.

Also typh could just 1 shot it with 1 extrasensory
252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Extrasensory vs. 44 HP / 0 SpD Pignite: 374-440 (112.6 - 132.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Sorry about my strong feelings toward it, but I felt like it never deserved to be ranked in the first place, Monferno, Hariyama, and many many other things outclass it.

Edit: Monferno Calcs

252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Eruption (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Monferno: 114-135 (34.3 - 40.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Slack off after or put rocks ;p it also lives extrasensory

 

[Relaxed Dedenne]

The same pignite thats outclassed by the s rank hariyama?

252+ Atk Hariyama Close Combat vs. 200 HP / 252+ Def Seismitoad: 177-208 (44.1 - 51.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
^means that we also do more damage vs Mega Camel than pignite
252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Eruption (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Thick Fat Hariyama: 118-139 (27.5 - 32.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252+ Atk Hariyama Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Scyther: 364-432 (106.1 - 125.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
^why would you stay in on a bulky sd scyther with a fighting mon idk, but hariyama can do the exact same thing as pignite, but take hits better


basically, why run pignite when you can run hariyama :s

Rip Pignites hopes and Dreams, All i said is C- rank spare me gg n re

 

[Dentricos]

The same pignite thats outclassed by the s rank hariyama

You mean A+ ;}

Samurott A+ ---> S

This mon fills gatrs roll wich is far less prepared for now. It runs both an amazing sd set, and has the perfect movepool to go special with shit like grass knot for toad, hp electric for mantine (I'm wierd like that) and ice beam for everything else. It's ability to execute multiple offensive roles to the level that it does makes it worth S imo. No definite stops and quite a few opportunities.

 

[Choice Banned]

B- --> B
With Megalix and frens (Heliolisk/Virizion) gone, Pawniard has gotten a bit better. It's no longer walled by M-lix and manages to do what it did best in XY, punishing Defogs (and Webs but that's not common) and spamming Knock Off/Sucker Punch. Why I'm not suggesting higher is due to competition with Sneasel and being walled by the bulky Fightings of the tier, as well as losing to Typh (well it can sucker punch), but it has some niches over Sneasel, those being that it's able to punish fairies better than Sneasel, and Defiant, letting you easily slap it onto Spike Stack HO teams.

A --> A-
This is probably a controversial nomination, but Jynx has taken a bit of a hit in the current metagame. While Scarf (arguably the best set) is good for revenge killing, the metagame has really not twisted in Jynx's favor. Multiple Dark types are very viable and there's more priority users to worry about (Kangaskhan's back again after Megalix ban, the numerous other common Sucker Punch users, etc). Jynx isn't a bad mon, it sorta took a hit with the Post-Megalix/Heliolisk metagame.

 

[Dentricos]

B- --> B
With Megalix and frens (Heliolisk/Virizion) gone, Pawniard has gotten a bit better. It's no longer walled by M-lix and manages to do what it did best in XY, punishing Defogs (and Webs but that's not common) and spamming Knock Off/Sucker Punch. Why I'm not suggesting higher is due to competition with Sneasel and being walled by the bulky Fightings of the tier, as well as losing to Typh (well it can sucker punch), but it has some niches over Sneasel, those being that it's able to punish fairies better than Sneasel, and Defiant, letting you easily slap it onto Spike Stack HO teams.

Agree with pawn moving up. Despite it's similarities with sheer force mawile, who has sucker punch, steel stab, and swords dance, pawniard does manage to have it's own niche punishing defoggers. However malamar can also discourage deffoging and claydol/sandslash are great spinners in this meta leaving defoggers less necessary.

All the same I can agree B- being too low.

A --> A-
This is probably a controversial nomination, but Jynx has taken a bit of a hit in the current metagame. While Scarf (arguably the best set) is good for revenge killing, the metagame has really not twisted in Jynx's favor. Multiple Dark types are very viable and there's more priority users to worry about (Kangaskhan's back again after Megalix ban, the numerous other common Sucker Punch users, etc). Jynx isn't a bad mon, it sorta took a hit with the Post-Megalix/Heliolisk metagame.

As someone who has been using jynx I can honestly say it's viability has not dropped.

Personally I find sash, lovely kiss, nasty plot can be amazing supported correctly. It seems to almost guarantee two kills and is good at stopping lead hazzards.

Imo Jynx stays in A if not A+

 

[Ares]

Alright massive update incoming, these were all discussed with multiple ppl. Really had to think about this one.

How our discussion went. (I'm homer and cased is Lisa)

A lot of the lower D tier was removed and will not be readded unless there is a sufficient enough reason to do so. From now on things that aren't NU by usage will need very good reasoning to be added, as the lower rankings were getting filled with very very niche mons. D rank had a bunch of mons removed so D rank was combined into one rank.

Mismagius A ==> A-
Seismitoad A ==> A+
Musharna A- ==> A
Ninetales A- ==> B+
Rotom-Fan A- ==> B+
Sawk A- ==> A
Weezing A- ==> B+
Poliwrath B+ ==> B-
Swellow B+ ==> A-
Aurorus B ==> B+
Claydol B ==> B+
Haunter B ==> B+
Regirock B ==> B+
Pawniard B- ==> B+
Pelipper B- ==> B
Probopass B- ==> C+
Articuno C ==> C+
Mr. Mime C ==> C+
Gogoat C ==> C-
Floatzel C- ==> C+
Swoobat C- ==> D
Simisage D ==> C
Pignite D+ ==> C-


Glaceon D ==> Unranked
Lapras D ==> Unranked
Masquerian D ==> Unranked
Politoed D ==> Unranked
Scraggy D ==> Unranked
Sligoo D ==> Unranked
Butterfree D ==> Unranked
Luxray D ==> Unranked
Monferno D ==> Unranked
Murkrow D ==> Unranked
Purugly D ==> Unranked
Wigglytuff D ==> Unranked
Yanma D ==> Unranked
Throh D ==> Unranked
Bastiodon D ==> Unranked

This was a lot so if I missed something pls VM me about it.

If I missed your nomination and you feel its still worthy of happening quote yourself and give a brief update on the reasoning.

 

[Evan.]

View attachment 38588C- => B-/C+
This mon is way better than people are giving credit for and is probably one of the underrated sweepers right now. Access to STAB Gunk Shot, a great boosting move in Coil, Priority, and coverage moves to allow it to get past alot of it's presumed checks. It also sits in a decent offensive speed tier, alongside 2 great abilities that let it set up easier against either offensive or defensive teams. Really deserves a rise imo.

View attachment 38593C- => C
Leavanny deserves to be in the same rank as kricketune imo. Now that it has Knock Off + Sticky Web to use, Kricketune and itself are fairly even with the only differences being that Kricketune has access to taunt and endeavor and Leavanny is faster and has a way to block Taunt with Magic Coat. There is really no reason to use one over the other and they deserve the same rank.

View attachment 38596A => A+
Scyther really is one of the best mons in the meta right now. It can run a variety of sets including Choice Band, Choice Scarf, Bulky SD, SD Pass and Offensive SD. It's a great check to all the CM Psychics that are running the tier right now as well as a check to most Fighting types as well. It sits in a great speed tier and is one of the hardest hitting mons in the tier. The 4x Stealth Rock Weakness is really the only thing holding it back from S and is one of the scariest mons to play against if it has the right support.

Still think these 3 noms are legit enough to be pushed through, especially the Arbok one. Offensive Poison typing with coverage to hit every relevant bulky ground is a godsend. Shed Skin also lets it set up on shit like weezing. Sucker Punch alongside one of the better boosting moves in the game with coil make it a threat against both Offense and Balance and definitely is not a C- mon.

Leavanny nom is pretty straightforward, kricketune no longer outclasses leavanny as a webs setter and therefore they should sit in the same rank.

don't feel like typing out scyther again but the reasoning is up there and it still stands.

 

[Teddeh]

I think this is the first tier update where I agree with pretty much everything apart from monferno to unranked. Monferno (if you actually try it) is remarkably unique and a great sneasel check. I hence nominate it for D again. I think the SD set has some use in NU as it has good stab options and outspeeds mesprit and other base 80's mons with good typing.

 

[Yugi]

Cacturne A- -------> A

Cacturne,the dangerous cactus in the desert.It can run both physical and special stat carrying each setup stat for both of them.After 1 SD/NP its a hard hitting monster if being physical SD special NP.Its a great pokemon and if you though its walled by any fire types it has HPs backing him up.He has alot of weaknesses with many resistances.It has immunity to Psychic types and the most common type in the game... Water.It nullifies the most hated move,Scald with its ability water absorb,and it resists the recently popular Knock-Off.Hidden power ground really helps it shine,as cacturne does get switched out againts mawile.So hp ground covers it.One thing that is going againts it is that it has so many weaknesses and is not that fast.

 

[Deej Dy]

Yeah, Monferno should definitely be ranked and Pignite is C-? I know Typh is used a lot and it was hyped when its hidden ability came out, but this pig is pretty thoroughly outclassed and very underwelming.

Wisp set?: Outclassed by Monferno due to lack of recovery
Offensive set?: Mostly outclassed by Monferno due to speed, set up ability, and Monferno's ability to go Special or Physical.
Set up set?: Unless you want to use Curse or Defense Curl, this isn't happening for Pignite. Monferno has Nasty Plot and Swords dance.
Lead set?: Monferno wins because it has stealth rock and Endeavor, and Pignite doesn't have shit.
Specs Typhlosion stopper: Pignite can take Eruptions a little better, yet still dies to 2 Extrasensorys like Monferno, and is without recovery outside of rest.

And this is comparing Pignite to Monferno, not even Yama or Mantine!

I know tiers can be very different, but to put into some context, in PU Monferno is B- and Pignite isn't even ranked!

It's honestly garbage and seemingly up in the tiers by a couple peoples' opinion not its actual viability. I think it would fit be C- rank in FU and rightfully so.

Edit: If you want a decent Thick Fat pig use Grumpig ;)

 

[Cased]

Alright massive update incoming, these were all discussed with multiple ppl. Really had to think about this one.

How our discussion went. (I'm homer and cased is Lisa)

Raseri was bart yn

It'll be interesting to see what happens if Mega Camerupt gets banned in the future to see what'll happen to the viability list, but everything basically looks in place. Simisage should be higher but :( I'll wait until I explain that situation.

Also Monferno can go to C or C- I mean it's generally outclassed with any niche it attempts to pull off but it has better Speed than Pignite and has recovery in Slack Off, support moves in Taunt, SR, and Wisp. Shouldn't really be used offensively but I mean... I've seen worse lol

 

[Funbot28]

Where is Throh?

 

[Finchinator]

Where is Throh?

Got moved to Unlisted in the most recent change (see a few posts up).

 

[Realistic Waters]

I disagree with Sligoo dropping to unranked and I'd like to nominate for D/C- , it checks a lot of the popular special attackers thanks to it's huge special bulk like Lilligant, Pyorar, Special Samurott (Dosent really even fear ice beam), Vileplume and much more, even comes in on Mega Camerupt pretty well. Sap sipper is nice and Dragon typing gives it those resistances to Fire/Water/Grass which your team may need.
Backed up with decent special attack and a good offensive movepool (Dragon pulse, Ice Beam, sludge bomb, thunderbolt and Muddywater is even an option lol. Hell, it can even do a more physical approach with Curse/Rest talk/Outrage if your into that stuff.

 

[Ares]

Yeah, Monferno should definitely be ranked and Pignite is C-? I know Typh is used a lot and it was hyped when its hidden ability came out, but this pig is pretty thoroughly outclassed and very underwelming.

Wisp set?: Outclassed by Monferno due to lack of recovery
Offensive set?: Mostly outclassed by Monferno due to speed, set up ability, and Monferno's ability to go Special or Physical.
Set up set?: Unless you want to use Curse or Defense Curl, this isn't happening for Pignite. Monferno has Nasty Plot and Swords dance.
Lead set?: Monferno wins because it has stealth rock and Endeavor, and Pignite doesn't have shit.
Specs Typhlosion stopper: Pignite can take Eruptions a little better, yet still dies to 2 Extrasensorys like Monferno, and is without recovery outside of rest.

And this is comparing Pignite to Monferno, not even Yama or Mantine!

I know tiers can be very different, but to put into some context, in PU Monferno is B- and Pignite isn't even ranked!

It's honestly garbage and seemingly up in the tiers by a couple peoples' opinion not its actual viability. I think it would fit be C- rank in FU and rightfully so.

Edit: If you want a decent Thick Fat pig use Grumpig ;)

rofl, comparing PU to NU when they are entirely different metas.

I don't think you've used Pignite at all Deej, because the majority of points you've made above are false while you made points that are irrelevant to the job that Pignite does. The reason Pignite isn't used in PU is because if you look at the Fire- and Ice-types in PU, Pignite doesn't matchup well against them (it should probably be ranked for its offensive prowess but I digress). If you look at the Fire-types in NU, Pignite fairs really well against them, it beats both Typhlosion (especially non specs variants) and Pyroar, has EQ to hit camel if you really want to (this you can't switch into), the specially defensive version beats Magmortar after rocks. Also beats Cryogonal, which has become less relevant. Hollywood has also used it with decent success on Stall.

As far as offensive sets go, there move pools are similarly diverse so saying one is better than the other an entirely outclasses it is just wrong. Monferno has some cool moves that Pignite doesn't and vice versa. The thing is though that Pignite hits harder than Monferno by 15 more base Attack, which is a p big difference. While its Special attack stats are only 8 apart, and Pignite has access to all it needs with Grass Knot. It also has enough speed to outpace the slower defensive meta and Sucker to injure the faster paced offensive meta.

It isn't being placed in C- for its offensive prowess though, it is being placed in C- mainly for its matchup against offensive Fire-types in NU.

The rankings aren't just based on a couple of people's opinions, they are based upon multiple users opinions on the matter. Implying that something is higher ranked because of that is just straight up wrong.

Also please refrain from over formatting your posts, its unnecessary to do it in every single one.

Edit: to clarify, the post above that nommed Pignite to C- isn't the reason that Pignite is in C-. A set of Eviolite with more defensive investment is the reason it is in C-.

Raseri was bart yn

Raseri was Marge, Bart was Finchinator

 

[Deej Dy]

rofl, comparing PU to NU when they are entirely different metas.

I don't think you've used Pignite at all Deej, because the majority of points you've made above are false while you made points that are irrelevant to the job that Pignite does. The reason Pignite isn't used in PU is because if you look at the Fire- and Ice-types in PU, Pignite doesn't matchup well against them (it should probably be ranked for its offensive prowess but I digress). If you look at the Fire-types in NU, Pignite fairs really well against them, it beats both Typhlosion (especially non specs variants) and Pyroar, has EQ to hit camel if you really want to (this you can't switch into), the specially defensive version beats Magmortar after rocks. Also beats Cryogonal, which has become less relevant. Hollywood has also used it with decent success on Stall.

As far as offensive sets go, there move pools are similarly diverse so saying one is better than the other an entirely outclasses it is just wrong. Monferno has some cool moves that Pignite doesn't and vice versa. The thing is though that Pignite hits harder than Monferno by 15 more base Attack, which is a p big difference. While its Special attack stats are only 8 apart, and Pignite has access to all it needs with Grass Knot. It also has enough speed to outpace the slower defensive meta and Sucker to injure the faster paced offensive meta.

It isn't being placed in C- for its offensive prowess though, it is being placed in C- mainly for its matchup against offensive Fire-types in NU.

The rankings aren't just based on a couple of people's opinions, they are based upon multiple users opinions on the matter. Implying that something is higher ranked because of that is just straight up wrong.

Also please refrain from over formatting your posts, its unnecessary to do it in every single one.


Raseri was Marge, Bart was Finchinator

I'd like to take a moment to say that this wasn't a complaint to the staff, I didn't want you to take it personally and I'm sorry. I'm just frustrated that this thing is actually ranked despite the apparent majority of NU agreeing it is terribad. I know you've defended it and such, but I don't see why other than sticking to your guns. I've changed my mind many times and have been proven wrong countless times (SD U-turn Scyther is bad, No one will ever use Hariyama in NU) so it's no biggie.

That aside, Pignite is total garbage, I tried be a little polite, but this thing is ass and compares to the likes of Assault vest Magcargo (Yes i went there)

You say that it beats Typh, but does it really? Especially if Typh uses Extrasensory or even the New Earthquake and Charcoal set.
252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Extrasensory vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Pignite: 248-294 (64.5 - 76.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
You can argue to put in Spf def Evs, but what then keeps it from being a terrible attacker? With no reliable recovery, and no speed? It is literally asking for an Xatu/Megarupt/Mantine/ anything that doesn't fear wisp and some chip damage to come set up.

Contrary to what you said Pyroar also beats it
252 SpA Life Orb Pyroar Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Pignite: 183-216 (47.6 - 56.2%) -- 82.4% chance to 2HKO
....and it loses to Magmortar too..
252+ SpA Life Orb Magmortar Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Pignite: 294-348 (76.5 - 90.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 Atk Life Orb Magmortar Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Pignite: 195-231 (50.7 - 60.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

(Yes its life orb but E-belt and assault vest still 2hko it (EQ after rocks))

Also grass knot Pignite? What? When is is going to be able to use this and even get a KO without special attack investment?
0 SpA Pignite Grass Knot (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Rhydon: 272-320 (65.7 - 77.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
It can't even kill a rhydon with no Spc def invest, and if you get rid of your Spc def investment for spc attack, say goodbye to its walling Typh ability and you wont be able to hit Magmortar.

Don't even get me started on Ninetales, we know what Pignite vs Ninetales would look like ;p.

I truely find this mon to be a handicap. You are right I don't use Pignite often, because it is awful. I have had better success with Scarf Seaking, Band Xatu, and sash+endeavor Dunsparce than this hog. I believe the majority of other users would agree as well.

TLDR: Pignite sux and can't even fulfill its own duties as a fire stopper as it loses to extrasensory Typh, Magmortar, Rupt, Pyroar, and Ninetales. It can choose to be offensive and lose its ability to wall Typh or defensive and be a passive pig to offensive teams.

Also what's wrong with formatting my posts? I find it makes it easier to read by spacing out the words and highlighting points '-'

Edit:
I have one further question, what would this Special defensive Set consist of? Superpower (stronger but loses defence) or Low kick (low base power which will lose to Magmortar, Typh, and Ninetales)