Resource ORAS NU Viability Rankings (Under Construction)

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My computer is really laggy right now so if I have any grammar mistakes, forgive me.
I nominate Malamar to A.

Everyone knows Psychics are very common (especially Xatu), and in my opinion Malamar is one of the best checks to them out there. It has something that nothing else in the tier boasts: a 120 base power move that essentially gives a free Bulk Up. It also has a great STAB combination which gives it only two weaknesses, and it has interesting coverage to cover those weaknesses. It even gets Switcheroo to cripple some of those checks, and Destiny Bond to take something down with it.

Other nom thoughts:
Regirock to B+/A- = Agree
Why did this even move down? Regirock is a great defensive and offensive mon, and it can fill many roles.

Pinsir for A- = Agree
This was summed up already mostly, but all of Pinsir's sets are effective and it's bulk is decent.

I also agree with the other noms BrandonBeast talked about (Vileplume to A- and Clefairy to C) and I also agree with Liepard going to A+.
 

shiloh

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Tiering Lead
My computer is really laggy right now so if I have any grammar mistakes, forgive me.
I nominate Malamar to A.

Everyone knows Psychics are very common (especially Xatu), and in my opinion Malamar is one of the best checks to them out there. It has something that nothing else in the tier boasts: a 120 base power move that essentially gives a free Bulk Up. It also has a great STAB combination which gives it only two weaknesses, and it has interesting coverage to cover those weaknesses. It even gets Switcheroo to cripple some of those checks, and Destiny Bond to take something down with it.

Other nom thoughts:
Regirock to B+/A- = Agree
Why did this even move down? Regirock is a great defensive and offensive mon, and it can fill many roles.

Pinsir for A- = Agree
This was summed up already mostly, but all of Pinsir's sets are effective and it's bulk is decent.

I also agree with the other noms BrandonBeast talked about (Vileplume to A- and Clefairy to C) and I also agree with Liepard going to A+.
Mentioning Xatu when the most common coverage move it runs is Signal Beam shows that Malamar cannot in fact check it to the degree that you are showing. It also runs Colbur Berry, so Knock Off will not be at Full Power against it, and it also allows Xatu to actually switch in to Malamar. And you say great Typing that gives it two weaknesses, but when you take another look at it you have 0 Resistances, which makes it a terrible defensive typing. Also mentioning Switcheroo and Destiny Bond aren't that great for Malamar's viability, as the only reason it is so high on the Ranking's is because of the RestTalk set that gives it reliable recovery. Overall Malamar is a good mon, but with Psychic Types that run Signal Beam as coverage, and a lot of other Random Bug Type moves Malamar is not effective enough to rise up to A.
 
I wouldn't say Malamar is one of the best Psychic checks out there when they almost always run Signal Beam to nail it. Not to mention Xatu and Mesprit still commonly run Colbur berry to switch into Fighting-types more reliably, which by extension hurts Malamar's attempt to sweep. It's still a good balance/stall breaker, but the meta has adapted to it at the point where every team is over prepared for it making it less viable than it was in the past (which isn't hard considering all you need is a Bug move). It's fine in A-

edit: ninja'd :(
 
I wouldn't say Malamar is one of the best Psychic checks out there when they almost always run Signal Beam to nail it. Not to mention Xatu and Mesprit still commonly run Colbur berry to switch into Fighting-types more reliably, which by extension hurts Malamar's attempt to sweep. It's still a good balance/stall breaker, but the meta has adapted to it at the point where every team is over prepared for it making it less viable than it was in the past (which isn't hard considering all you need is a Bug move). It's fine in A-

edit: ninja'd :(
Psychics do about 50%-70% with signal beam? with or without colbur, they are still taking a big hit from malamar and then malamar can choose to rest up at a later point in the match. Also, signal beam xatu is non-existent? Not unless they are running it specifically for malamar but I see 9/10 xatu's run heat wave to hit klinklang. And it's not that easy to check malamar, since choiced scythers struggle if you manager to get rocks up since it does not like taking a knock off and all other bug coverage mons lack recovery. Quag loses 1v1 if you get status on it since you're taking away leftovers and in the end, malamar wins the pp stall war unless they run curse and in general, i think that malamar is an A rank threat. Not for checking psychics since they are used to check malamar >_> but as a threat in general.
 

Ares

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Teddeh I just want to point out that Xatu can run 3 coverage moves viably; Heatwave, Giga Drain, and Signal Beam. It all really depends on what you want to beat. Not to mention that Signal Beam is great neutral coverage which isn't used to hit just Malamar.
Other nom thoughts:
Regirock to B+/A- = Agree
Why did this even move down? Regirock is a great defensive and offensive mon, and it can fill many roles.
The whole point of this new thread was to not attach a rank to a certain Pokemon, so instead of asking why this dropped instead give information on why it should move up. Quick reasoning on why it dropped is that it is no longer as effective in this meta as it was when Sneasel was around.
 
Psychics do about 50%-70% with signal beam? with or without colbur, they are still taking a big hit from malamar and then malamar can choose to rest up at a later point in the match. Also, signal beam xatu is non-existent? Not unless they are running it specifically for malamar but I see 9/10 xatu's run heat wave to hit klinklang. And it's not that easy to check malamar, since choiced scythers struggle if you manager to get rocks up since it does not like taking a knock off and all other bug coverage mons lack recovery. Quag loses 1v1 if you get status on it since you're taking away leftovers and in the end, malamar wins the pp stall war unless they run curse and in general, i think that malamar is an A rank threat. Not for checking psychics since they are used to check malamar >_> but as a threat in general.

Why do u talk like this? Psychics don't run signal beam? Psychics do 50-70% with signal beam??? It's not a question it's a statement

You don't need to post your arguments in a way to make others' look stupid
 
I believe Floatzel could get a small bump to B+ in this metagame.
Its main trait is the amazing Speed tier that puts it above stuff like Archeops and Tauros without the need to use a Choice Scarf (which is absolutely amazing) that paired with decent power with Life Orb and a special set makes it an amazing Pokemon in matchups against Offensive teams. Between Hydro and Ice Beam there isn't really much offensive that can switch into this or reliably take its hits outside of Jynx and Ludicolo, despite the mediocre power it has with base 85 SpA (it OHKOs with ease any Tauros using a Naive Nature after SR and Jolly Variants have a reasonable shot at being taken down). It is clear that Lanturn being quite popular and Poliwrath being slightly popular doesnt help Floatzel's case at all but with entry hazards and Hidden Power Grass it is quite easy to 3HKO both so it is not so hopeless. Obviously struggles with specially bulky mons netrual to its moves like Musharna and Audino (which still dislike Taunt which is legit if you arent paranoid to use Surf like me a lot of the time) but they arent that hard to pressure with a lot of common Pokemon.
 

Kadabra C+ --> B-

I've been using Kadabra since the Sneasel meta, and it's honestly really good. The ability to have a sash that can't be broken by hazards mixed with it's decent speed of 105 makes it an amazing blanket check/ revenge killer to a lot of offensive mons in the tier such as Sawk, Zangoose, Liepard, and Pyroar. It often makes your opponent choose between breaking your sash and potentially losing their pokemon, or switching out and letting something else take the hit and letting you keep your sash. It can also run support options such as Encore/ Thunder Wave to cripple your opponent. It also has the ability to run a Life Orb set which can hit like a truck due to it's base 120 Sp.A. It's incredibly splashable on teams thanks to the utility it offers off Magic Guard and Status/ Encore.

tl;dr: Due to Magic Guard + Sash it can blanket check a lot of the tier, it's a splashable Psychics type, and can add utility in the form of Twave and Encore.
 
Rampardos C+ to B-

Rampardos is the Crawdaunt of this meta. It has high attack and low speed, making a Scarf or Sash set extremely viable. It, in fact, has the highest attack stat of a non-mega, non-uber pokemon. It has many noticeable flaws, such as dying to Floatzel, but it also has a lot of uses as well.

For instance....

Rampardos @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Crunch
- Rock Slide
- Fire Punch


252+ Atk Rampardos Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4+ Def Regirock: 142-168 (39 - 46.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

3HKO on the most defensive Pokemon in the tier... Let's try another pokemon, shall we?

252 SpA Kadabra Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Rampardos: 241-285 (71.9 - 85%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Rampardos survives, and...

252+ Atk Sheer Force Rampardos Crunch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Kadabra: 730-860 (328.8 - 387.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Hmm... it can take a Kadabra easily, even with Eviolite (i did the calcs). Now, onto the Blissey of the Sea (no SpA or Speed invest, support set)

0 SpA Lanturn Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Rampardos: 236-282 (70.4 - 84.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Rampardos Earthquake vs. 40 HP / 252 Def Lanturn: 316-372 (78.8 - 92.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

And one of the most viable Pokemon in the tier...

252+ Atk Rampardos Earthquake vs. 92 HP / 0 Def Klinklang: 254-300 (89.4 - 105.6%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Sheer Force Rampardos Fire Punch vs. 92 HP / 0 Def Klinklang: 248-294 (87.3 - 103.5%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

It dies to gear grind, but it can outspeed if scarfed (Which it is). A lot of luck (37 to kill) but it can cripple it at the very least.
 

eren

je suis d'ailleurs
While the new drops are fresh af, something me and Zebraiken see much potential in for a raise in viability is Gurdurr. It can check many of the NU meta namely Klinklang, Tauros, and Kecleon, the new drops in Stunktank and Shiftry, and the new pu raises. We also lost two of its best checks in Uxie and Baby Talonbird aka Linda. It can act as a wincon with Bulk Up and also has semi reliable in Drain Punch. Can hit Ghosts and Psychics with Knock and even fairies with Pjab. Overall, Gurdurr is a very good mon that I feel should be raised to A.
 

marilli

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Sawk to S, Gurdurr to A+ sounds like the least we can do. Sawk's speed tier is actually still good with the new drops coming around, and the drops 1. lose to sawk, 2. counter sawk's counters, and the rises (especially offensive Uxie) were one of the most splashable Sawk checks around. It still outspeeds majority of bulky metagame because they now reside around base 80+, and base 85 handily bypasses all that. If Sawk didn't deserve S before even with killing everything, at the very least it deserves it now.
 
Pinsir to A+ this pokemon thanks to its versatility can be used both lead, Choice Band, Choice Scarf, Swords Dance and all of these options can give good results and this is complemented by its big two ability which are mold breaker and moxie.

Skuntank to B this pokemon through access to defog a party won more competitive and it also complements its good typification which only makes you weak ground type.

Hitmonchan to C- good this despite much is second most types Fighting of this tier and is very slow and fragile though it has access to a large moverpool and rapid spin to what can be used as a good offensive spinner and has a good ability which raises the power of the attacks made by fists despite that is second most types fighting of this tier.
 

Disjunction

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Pinsir to A+ this pokemon thanks to its versatility can be used both lead, Choice Band, Choice Scarf, Swords Dance and all of these options can give good results and this is complemented by its big two ability which are mold breaker and moxie.

Skuntank to B this pokemon through access to defog a party won more competitive and it also complements its good typification which only makes you weak ground type.

Hitmonchan to C- good this despite much is second most types struggle of this tier and is very slow and fragile though it has access to a large moverpool and rapid spin to what can be used as a good offensive spinner and has a good ability which raises the power of the attacks made by fists despite that is second most types struggles of this tier.
hey bud, I'm not sure how many tier shifts you've been through with us, but we typically allow a week or so until we place new drops on the rankings. I'd love to place Skuntank and the rest of them when the time comes, but we've hardly given them any play testing, so let's wait a bit ;)
 

Cheryl.

Celesteela is Life
Pinsir to A+ this pokemon thanks to its versatility can be used both lead, Choice Band, Choice Scarf, Swords Dance and all of these options can give good results and this is complemented by its big two ability which are mold breaker and moxie.

Skuntank to B this pokemon through access to defog a party won more competitive and it also complements its good typification which only makes you weak ground type.

Hitmonchan to C- good this despite much is second most types Fighting of this tier and is very slow and fragile though it has access to a large moverpool and rapid spin to what can be used as a good offensive spinner and has a good ability which raises the power of the attacks made by fists despite that is second most types fighting of this tier.
Wait for a week so we can get a better grasp on how these new drops work. Also, Pinsir is good but not A+ good at all, A- material imo but not A+.
 

Cheryl.

Celesteela is Life
It's time. Golurk for B+.
This is a nom I would've posted before tier shifts if I wasn't so lazy. Golurk is pretty cool right now with it's cool STAB combination and high 124 attack. It's also one of the only Ghost types that can beat Skuntank, as it has STAB Earthquake. Iron Fist is useful for powering up it's punching moves, or you can use No Guard DynamicPunch to be that guy who haxxes people, it also hits Dark types super effectively, so it's good coverage. It can run Choice Band for wallbreaking, Assault Vest for some bulk, Stealth Rock to set up rocks, and it can even use Rock Polish to mitigate it's low 55 speed and even attempt a sweep. While Golurk has many positives, it has some negatives as well. It's Ghost/Ground is a double-edged sword, as it gives Golurk weaknesses to common types like Water and Grass, although it can use Earthquake to beat the most common water, Lanturn, and it has Fire/Ice Punch for Grasses. It also doesn't have the greatest bulk ever, but it can survive at least 1 hit neutrally most of the time. It also is pretty slow without a Rock Polish boost. But Golurk is one of the most underrated and powerful pokemon in the NU tier, and definetely doesn't deserve B, it should rise to B+!
 

Ares

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Not quite sure where Golurk is at in this meta, but why would you nom it after we just got skuntank and shiftry? Both of those mons pressure Golurk a ton so I can't see why it would rise up because they just dropped. That being said I haven't played enough in the meta yet to make a judgment call, just an observation.

--

On a side note expect an update on Tuesday for the rankings, was gonna do one yesterday but the council johned till the drops happened so yah.
 

jake

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It's time. Golurk for B+.
This is a nom I would've posted before tier shifts if I wasn't so lazy. Golurk is pretty cool right now with it's cool STAB combination and high 124 attack. It's also one of the only Ghost types that can beat Skuntank, as it has STAB Earthquake. Iron Fist is useful for powering up it's punching moves, or you can use No Guard DynamicPunch to be that guy who haxxes people, it also hits Dark types super effectively, so it's good coverage. It can run Choice Band for wallbreaking, Assault Vest for some bulk, Stealth Rock to set up rocks, and it can even use Rock Polish to mitigate it's low 55 speed and even attempt a sweep. While Golurk has many positives, it has some negatives as well. It's Ghost/Ground is a double-edged sword, as it gives Golurk weaknesses to common types like Water and Grass, although it can use Earthquake to beat the most common water, Lanturn, and it has Fire/Ice Punch for Grasses. It also doesn't have the greatest bulk ever, but it can survive at least 1 hit neutrally most of the time. It also is pretty slow without a Rock Polish boost. But Golurk is one of the most underrated and powerful pokemon in the NU tier, and definetely doesn't deserve B, it should rise to B+!
on top of what mont said, i think that the next time you post a nom, you should construct your argument to be a little more about the metagame rather than speaking in very general terms about its options and type coverage, stuff we already know about it. that sort of argument is alright when you're talking about something very very rare, but it doesn't work well 95% of the time. your argument should (hopefully!) provide additional critical thinking and reasoning in regards to your nominated pokemon's place in the metagame and why it should change. before making a nomination, i'd like you to be able to explain to yourself why that pokemon is where it is on the rankings currently, and to think about what evidence you can present that proves your point on why it should change - and that evidence should almost always be talking in specifics about its role, not just rehashing the analysis for us!

some examples of what i like to see: x pokemon is good because this set beats y and z, which are really popular right now. most people think of x only for this one bad set, but i think this other set is way better and its not given enough credit for that. x pokemon got a lot better because y pokemon left the tier, and everything is way more favorable to it now. you've really been underselling the usefulness of this pokemon - here, let me explain to you why you should be using it now and how it deserves this rank despite other pokemon being traditionally considered better.

at you directly brandonbeast, ive seen you posting a ton in all sorts of threads, but its hard for me to say any of your arguments have come across as really convincing because of their vagueness and how they don't discuss the meta much in detail. if you'd like, i can help you work on focusing your thoughts and learning how to read the metagame a little more & apply that to your posts and conversations, because it's very nice to see someone fairly new to smogon with this much passion for it. =)
 
Pinsir to A+ this pokemon thanks to its versatility can be used both lead, Choice Band, Choice Scarf, Swords Dance and all of these options can give good results and this is complemented by its big two ability which are mold breaker and moxie.

Skuntank to B this pokemon through access to defog a party won more competitive and it also complements its good typification which only makes you weak ground type.

Hitmonchan to C- good this despite much is second most types Fighting of this tier and is very slow and fragile though it has access to a large moverpool and rapid spin to what can be used as a good offensive spinner and has a good ability which raises the power of the attacks made by fists despite that is second most types fighting of this tier.
IMO skuntank should not be placed in "B" rank. Skuntank has the unique great typing of Dark and Poison giving it one weakness in ground and an immunity to psychic, has access to support moves like memento, defog, taunt, and haze, and has Harder hitting sucker punches, and pursuits, and better all around bulk than both pawniard and liepard, who can carry both and are growing in popularity in the NU meta. skuntank also carries poison stab that helps deal with all the grass types now that fletchinder is gone. it also has the coverage move of fire blast/flamethrower for steel types that could of potentially walled it like mawile and klingklang. an added little bonus skuntank can do is leave its opponents with a little Aftermath damage, or potentially (unlikely tho) flinch them with sucker punch because of it's ability, Stench. Skuntank imo should be placed at A- in the NU Viability Thread.
 
I'm glad to see we're all excited to discuss the new drops, but we should really give them more time than under a day to settle into the metagame before we try to place them, imo
 
D --> C-
Meowstic-M can do some of what Uxie used to do (albeit much worse, but it isn't overshadowed as much anymore), except with Prankster, giving it a niche. Having a Dark type weakness in the post-drop meta sucks though and it still has some of the same problems it had before, so it still should only be in C-.

B+ --> A-
Pinsir is pretty cool rn. Being able to check Shiftry and most Dark types is nice, and it hits hard even without a SD boost. Fletchinder leaving gives it some breathing room as well letting it sweep/wallbreak easier.

A+ --> S
Agree with this. Just like Pinsir, Fletch leaving and Dark types dropping makes Sawk's job easier. Sturdy is also a pretty nice ability to have, letting it check things it couldn't usually check.

Also, adding on to the earlier Jumpluff nomination, Fletch leaving also makes it's life easier, as SD now doesn't have to worry about it coming in and ruining a sweep.
 

Disjunction

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A- --> A/A+

Busken is really good, and has only gotten better with the latest shifts. Fletch leaving means one of its main checks is gone, and with two new Sucker Punch users dropping, a fast and powerful resist comes in handy. Uxie leaving is also notable because it's one less bulky mon that can beat busken 1v1. I'm sure I also don't need to touch on how versatile it is, what with three greats sets in bulky speed pass, SD, and Specially Offensive Speed Pass.
 
Cacturne to b- or B it has heavy competition from shiftry and skunk that have more splashable niches as dark types. After looking at some old threads it was like c during the shiftry meta while it's not as bad as it was sit still has heavy competition and there's a huge rise in fighting types.
 
A- --> A/A+

Busken is really good, and has only gotten better with the latest shifts. Fletch leaving means one of its main checks is gone, and with two new Sucker Punch users dropping, a fast and powerful resist comes in handy. Uxie leaving is also notable because it's one less bulky mon that can beat busken 1v1. I'm sure I also don't need to touch on how versatile it is, what with three greats sets in bulky speed pass, SD, and Specially Offensive Speed Pass.
Yes, combusken right now is great because of this recent tier shift, pokemon like shiftry and skuntank has fallen who don't appreciate taking a fighting and or a fire type move, also combusken doesn't even always need to pass off its speed, it can really just keep it for itself and give it great sweeping potential now that fletchinder can revenge kill it and that uxie can no longer wall it. combusken does its passing great with the use of sub/protect, and often passes it to a potential sweeper who can then either force a switch and set up, or just go on a blazing assault, safely behind a sub. because of how combusken can take a match and turn it up side down with not much to securely wall it outside of quag if not running hp grass and mega dino, i agree and Nominate Combusken to A. but i would not make a stretch and put it in A+ Rank yet because it is still walled, and priority can still destroy it if not careful. and combusken doesn't have an infinite amount of pokemon it can set up on safely, combusken is a fragile pokemon even with the eviolite. combusken is not walled by a lot of the meta, but it does have a decent amount of checks stopping it from setting up.
 
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