Lower Tiers ORAS NU Viability Rankings

[Shadestep]

re: Garbodor -> S-rank
I definitely think Garbodor is S-rank worthy. It's so incredibly easy to add on teams that need a Fighting-check, and is one of the most reliable Spike-users in the tier, as we all know. What it has over other Spike-users like Omastar is that it switches in to two of the most popular Hazard Removers in the tier; Hitmonchan and Shiftry. It punishes them both and can continue setting up Toxic/regular Spikes on them as it switches in on them.

Another argument for the rise of Garbodor is its customisability; You can tweak Garbodor however you want. You can run Focus Blast to grab an OHKO on 0 HP Aggron (you still have a 50% chance to kill at full if it's 252 HP), Thunderbolt for Mantine, Samurott, Xatu and Pelipper, Seed Bomb for Gastrodon and Rhydon. You can alter the EVs to an offensive LO set, a specially defensive set, or run a bunch of speed to creep things that would normally outpace it like Abomasnow and AV Hitmonchan.
Other uncommon options like Psychic and Pain Split Garbodor have also seen usage in high-level tournament play, in NUL and NUPL, respectively, which shows that while only being used on more particular and 'counter-play'-teams, they are still viable options and not stupid ladder-gimmicks. Running a bunch of Attack-EVs to 'lure' in Xatu is a cool idea too which may be worth considering when you're customizing your Garbodor.

Not too much to say about Cryogonal since I haven't used it myself, but it's definitely got a nice place on stall teams which I think would make it C-rank worthy. Spin + Recover is a rare combination of moves in NU, and it's insane SDef stat allows it to take on a bunch of special attackers such as Special Samurott, Choice Specs Mesprit, and Boomburst Swellow, although its job to spin away is hindered a lot by its SR weakness, leaving it 2HKOd by Swellow, Mesprit and Samurott at 75%.

 

[SANJAY]

A -> S AGREE.

There's nothing really much to say here without bandwagoning as all things have been pretty much mentioned. Great (toxic) spikes users, great fighting check, is able to punish and cripple physical attackers, is customisable, nice movepull, not a too terrible speed stat, decent offensive stat. I don't see anything really stopping this from going S.

C - -> C DISAGREE.

Yes it has a great special attack stats and a nice speed stat plus an OK special attack to compliment it allowing it to check things such as choice specs swellow, choice specs aurorus (Hidden power fighting) and other things such as offensive lanturn. Not to mention it has access to freeze dry allowing it to hit waters for SE damage whilst still getting STAB. However, there are a couple of flaws holding Cryogonal from performing at the best of its ability. For example, its defense stat is absolutely terrible allowing it to be easily revenge killed by things such as physical scarfers or physical priority from the likes of Shiftry and hitmonchan. Cryogonal's coverage is also pretty poor only having Ice type moves + Hidden Power Fighting and Flash cannon (which isn't even really viable) making it easily walled by literally every fire type and despite its great special defense its still OHKOed by the likes of Combusken, Pyroar, Charizard and Magmortar; 3 very common fire types in the NU metagame. Its weakness to stealth rock isn't great for a spinner either this just makes it even more susceptible to physical attacks and even special attacks especially considering the fact that cryogonal is usually not invested in special defense unless it's running more of a defensive spread though that gives up any special attack making it easier to check/counter. Lastly despite it's decent speed tier its still outsped by common threats such as Tauros, Pyroar, Liepard, Swellow and Archeops.

Now for my own nom:

C+ -> B-

Though its typing grants it a lot of weaknesses and not to mention its pretty eh defensive stats (though its defensive stats are pretty ok i suppose for an offensive pokemon), a poor speed, susceptibility to getting pursuit trapped/revenge killed with sucker punch and just susceptible to any dark type pokemon really (the main ones being Skuntank + Shiftry.) I feel like exeggutor has some things that should be considered for a potential move to B-. Exeggutor is a pretty fearsome wallbreaker as its able to check a lot of common pokemon throughout the NU metagame such as gastrodon, lanturn, weezing, vileplume, hariyama, ferrothorn etc. Its STAB typing is amazing to break down a lot of common walls or severely cripple them for the rest of the game, especially if they lack recovery. It can also force a lot of switches making it a decent option for spikes stacking teams as well as pairing well with garbodor. Holding a choice specs allows it to 2HKO/OHKO pretty much nearly everything that doesn't resist it. A Life Orb for the cost of power can allow it to switch between its powerful STABs, HP fire and even now let it carry sleep powder to cripple checks/counters. It can even hold colbur for the loss of major power to check fighting types better.Though its not really bulky enough to live it anything, its typing provides with some useful resistances to things such as ground, psychic, fighting and electric. Not to to mention, eggy is extremely scary under sun out speeding the whole unboosted metagame making it pretty hard to stop and access to sleep powder can cripple its checks. I'm not sure if being weak to dark spam really hinders its ability to be even more of a devastating wallbreaker but I feel like it should be considered to B-.

 

[Mac3]

I nominate Regirock to B+/A-/A
This thing is arguably the best Tauros check in NU right now and it also is a great check to all other normal types. It also works as a good flying check and could maybe work as a secondary fire check. Regirock learns Thunder Wave which can put a stop to so many mons that needs speed to be effective.

Relevant Calcs:

252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 16+ Def Regirock: 151-179 (41.4 - 49.1%) -- 18.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Life Orb Tauros Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 16+ Def Regirock: 117-138 (32.1 - 37.9%) -- 93.2% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Guts Swellow Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 16+ Def Regirock: 63-74 (17.3 - 20.3%) -- possible 6HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Choice Specs Swellow Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 196 SpD Regirock: 78-93 (21.4 - 25.5%) -- possible 5HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Toxic Boost Zangoose Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 16+ Def Regirock: 176-208 (48.3 - 57.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Zangoose Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 16+ Def Regirock: 118-140 (32.4 - 38.4%) -- 98.1% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery (If it gets paralyzed)

252 SpA Vivillon Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 196 SpD Regirock: 128-152 (35.1 - 41.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

+1 252 SpA Vivillon Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 196 SpD Regirock: 190-224 (52.1 - 61.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Life Orb Magmortar Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 196 SpD Regirock: 104-122 (28.5 - 33.5%) -- 96.8% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Life Orb Magmortar Hidden Power Grass vs. 252 HP / 196 SpD Regirock: 151-179 (41.4 - 49.1%) -- 18.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

 

[ryan]

Didn't see the other posts until I made my own, so obviously this is in reply to the post about dropping Ninetales.

Ninetales's niche over the other Fire-types you've mentioned is that it can set up, so the fact that it needs to set up is less relevant than you make it out to be. Charizard can also set up but does so more as a Flying-type than as a Fire-type. Whether the ability to set up should be valued considerably more than immediate presence on the field is up for debate, but I would probably be more likely to use Ninetales which can set up than Pyroar which does what special Charizard does but with a mostly unhelpful Normal STAB over coverage and reliable recovery.

e: don't really want to make a whole new post but in response to Shadestep, you're right. I more think that STAB Hyper Voice is less helpful than Charizard's assets than I think it's mostly unhelpful.

 

[Shadestep]

I would probably be more likely to use Ninetales which can set up than Pyroar which does what special Charizard does but with a mostly unhelpful Normal STAB over coverage and reliable recovery.

I don't think Pyroar's secondary STAB in Hyper Voice is mostly unhelpful. It helps it immensely vs the other Fire-type in the tier (2HKOs AV Magmortar, OHKOs LO Combusken, almost OHKOs Zard) and is often a very safe middle-ground play, hitting a lot of things neutrally for loads of damage. It also plows through Lanturn and Gastrodon, and can hit both Combusken and Jynx behind their subs, which is incredibly helpful.

I agree with the things you said about Ninetales though; its access to Nasty Plot and its Ability Flash Fire, together with decent special bulk and access to Psyshock and Energy Ball gives it a decent niche in the current meta.

 

[Blast]

Re:

--> S

I was torn on Garbodor before, but after thinking about it some more I'm supporting it for S. idt it's as clear cut as Jynx or Tauros, but the thing that stands out most to me is that you can customize it to do pretty much anything you need it to. On top of the insane utility it provides naturally with Poison typing, Helmet + Aftermath, and Spikes, its stats and movepool are malleable enough to glue together just about any playstyle or team it's added to, and most drawbacks of one set are covered by another. Granted, it obviously can't have everything on a single set, but it can cover everything you need it to with just enough room to do so.

--> A-

Musharna's just fallen out of favor as a Psychic-type and bulky setup sweeper. As a Fighting resist, it's still arguably the most reliable one due to Moonlight, but Pokemon like Garbodor and Weezing just bring more to the table in terms of support as it becomes increasingly easier to stop Calm Mind Musharna. As a Psychic-type, Xatu and Mesprit are often more favorable because they also just bring more general support and versatility. I've seen pivot Musharna with Thunder Wave work to decent success, but it loses so much of the threat level of CM that made it so good before.

--> A

I think Hariyama's way too splashable to be in A-. The fact that it's an offensive Pokemon that still easily checks most Fire- and Ice-types and even soft-checks most special attackers in general is incredible for the many teams that it finds its way onto. It's also less matchup-based than a lot of other A- Pokemon, since it's bulky enough to live hits and kill stuff against offense, and can at least chunk away at defensive counters with Knock Off (or bait them with its various coverage moves).

--> B-

It's a Stealth Rock setter with Magic Guard, recovery, and enough raw bulk to check Magmortar and Specs Mesprit. Its niche is just way more defined than anything else in C+ and the support it brings is a lot less team-specific because it doesn't face much direct competition from anything. clef clef

 

[ryan]

I really have not used this Pokemon in ages but I'm very curious what people think about Raichu moving up to B-. On paper at least, it seems like a better Manectric, trading Switcheroo which is hard to utilize on Manectric anyways because it really wants for attacks and Flamethrower for Nasty Plot, Grass Knot, and Focus Blast. Speed tying with Tauros and Archeops is also infinitely better than Manectric's Speed, which misses out on those two as well as Pyroar and Liepard. I'll probably test it soon but I'm hoping someone has some experience with it and can add more to the discussion.

 

[yogi]

I used an AOA raichu a while back, with decent success. Back when I suggested that it could be moved up it was declined as such, maybe due to pokemon such as Sceptile and (scarf) sawk existing, along with Gurdurr still being in the tier too. I think it's a great electric mon with an expansive movepool that it's able to abuse, with common electric switch-ins struggling with its coverage options. Surf, grass knot, focus blast, knock off, etc. are moves that other electric types in our tier can only dream of having, and I believe that the recent shifts have been kind to this electric rodent.

I may make a newer team to give him a bit more testing and comment more on this later, but I'm definitely not opposed to it moving up.

 

[boltsandbombers]

Update:

Combusken A -> A-
Musharna A -> A-
Hariyama A- -> A
Gourgeist-S -> C
Ninetales B- > C+
Regirock B -> B+
Clefairy C+ -> B-
Ninjask C- -> UR

Regarding the Garbodor nomination, I feel that its time to put the discussion for it to rest, at least for now. We've voted on it twice now, and while there was significantly more support this time than the previous voting I still did not feel that there was enough overwhelming support for it to move up to S rank. I'll quote something brief ryan said about this nomination for further clarification on the matter:

Garbodor is obviously really good but you don't have to prepare for it much outside of running Xatu / Defogger / Spinner which most teams have anyways; I don't think it's nearly influential enough for S even though it's a top mon

 

[Punchshroom]

Garbodor is obviously really good but you don't have to prepare for it much outside of running Xatu / Defogger / Spinner which most teams have anyways; I don't think it's nearly influential enough for S even though it's a top mon

Imo, these options are not the most foolproof (Xatu hates getting Gunk Shot poisoned on the switch), and the amount of hazard removers that don't get screwed by Garbodor in some way, aka Skuntank and Claydol, the latter of which is still Ghost bait, are limited; Garbodor can work around the Water-type Defoggers with TBolt or Explosion if it really wants to, or just fall back on good ol' Gunk Shot poison. Also lol Hitmonchan. At least Garbo got more support this time around.

Also, have we actually come to a consensus on these?

Tangela C+ -> C
Grumpig B -> B-
Mismagius A- -> B+
Barbaracle A -> A-

Where's the 'needs more discussion' nominations that usually follows up after the actual ones this time around?

C+ to C

As far as I can tell, Tangela's niche is being a bulky Grass-type which can pack a strong offensive punch with invested Leaf Storm to put pressure on foes while packing powder moves to disrupt stuff. The problems arise when you consider that Tangela doesn't manage to wall that much more compared to what the current bulky Grasses (namely Plume, Gourgeist-XL, Ferroseed, arguably Torterra?) can, and I'm skeptical on its value as a 'slow tanky Grass-type' when you consider the sheer number of Grass resists in the tier, many of which are offensive powerhouses, which Tangela can only retaliate against with 60 BP coverage :/. You also gain vulnerability to chip damage and Knock Off for your troubles, the latter of which further limit the amount of mons you potentially wall (like Shiftry and Hariyama). Defensive Tangela sets are even more worthless, as they trade away the hard-hitting power for meaningless extra bulk while compounding the problems of offensive Tangela in terms of offensive presence and competition with other bulky Grasses.

Unsure

All I can really say about Grumpig is that its decent stats (great SpD, workable SpA and Speed), great resists with Thick Fat, and wide usable movepool (Psychic / Psyshock, Focus Blast, Signal Beam, Thunder Wave, Heal Bell, Taunt, Whirlwind) allow Grumpig to put in some / good work in most matches where Skuntank isn't present, but usually turns into a flat out liability if it is. I feel like B Rank already somewhat represents Grumpig's rather lopsided effectiveness, but otherwise I don't have a strong opinion on where it should be ranked.

Leaning on staying in C+

I can get behind why this is being nommed for a rise, but personally I don't feel Raichu is consistent enough to warrant it. Nasty Plot is Raichu's better niche, since it can afford TBolt, Grass Knot, and HP Ice without much concern for coverage (+2 LO Grass Knot already does 90% min. to Steelix). Unless you want to try Magnet, in which case you'll need Focus Blast against Steelix and simply resign yourself against bulky Grasses. The problem comes when trying to actually set up, as Raichu takes like 50% from nearly everything and doesn't threaten too much with its raw power, often putting itself at huge risk (ex: threatening Grass Knot against a Rhydon). Even after that, Raichu still has to watch out for priority moves. Meanwhile, the AoA set's 4MSS becomes more apparent when trying to fit Volt Switch, Thunderbolt, Focus Blast, Grass Knot, and HP Ice. The advantage in Speed is nice, but only really matters against Pyroar at ~66% unless you want to chance the Focus Blast; Liepard may pack the Sucker Punch which does an asston, and it seems less appealing to sacrifice Manectric's more effective 4-move coverage just to have only a 50% shot at best of beating Archeops and Tauros.

 

[boltsandbombers]

Where's the 'needs more discussion' nominations that usually follows up after the actual ones this time around?

Almost all of the nominations this time were followed up with and the few that we did not follow through with I did not feel really needed more discussion. For specifics, I made a comment about the Garbodor nomination, and the others which did not gain enough support were rising Gastrodon to A, Exeggutor to B-, and Cryogonal to C. Exeggutor is one that I think could use some more discussion given but the other two I think don't really need more discussion given that Gastrodon just rose one or two updates ago and Cryogonal has been brought up many times.

While I'm here and because Hootie is a lazy butt, I have a nomination of my own:

C- -> C

While it may be arguably just another flavor of the month Pokemon, I think that Bronzor definitely deserves a rise given how many important threats in this meta that it checks, ranging from Jynx to Kangaskhan to Archeops and many more. Having a ground immunity is a very important attribute that Bronzor has over its fellow relatively (albeit much less) passive NFE Steel / Psychic, Metang, which allows it to actually check Steelix and have an easier time combating Kangaskhan and Tauros. As Bronzor's attacking stats are so weak its forced to use Psywave, which people have discovered to be quite a useful and unique move given that it ignores resistances while dealing respectable damage in general to most targets.

Here's one decent replay from the other day: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/nu-403510115

 

[Punchshroom]

So I've noticed Flareon being moved to D Rank back at ~start of May, before D Rank was revamped, and recently it was allowed to go back to C-. I don't really understand why since it just doesn't seem Flareon excels or even functions properly at anything in this meta. For starters, it is largely outclassed by AV Magmortar when it comes to checking things, as they both have good Special Defense but Mortar's coverage and the fact that it's not killing itself with its main STAB move makes it far more self-sufficient; in fact that recoil makes it so that you're not even using Flareon on the pretense of checking things since it gets worn down way too fast to feasibly do so.

Even its worth as a wallbreaker comes into question when it is slow, is weak to Stealth Rock, has poor Defense and HP, constantly weakens itself, and gets forced out way more often than it can come in. These flaws are exploitable to the point where something like bulky SD Charizard can hard check it, not to mention the numerous physically defensive Fire resists that easily sponge up Flare Blitzes, many of which aren't so easily dispatched by Superpower, so Flareon's lone advantage, which is its raw power, becomes severely undermined as well. I highly doubt there's even a unique combination of Pokemon that Flareon specifically can break. Personally I feel Rapidash is more worthy of this spot than Flareon is, because at least Rapidash has a far better Speed tier and more movepool diversity (such as Wild Charge and Morning Sun) to at least allow itself to remain relevant on a slightly more consistent level, but obviously my main point is 'why is Flareon still here'?

Speaking of irrelevant mons, now that Barbaracle's Choice Scarf set is officially acknowledged, I believe I can safely say that there is pretty much nothing Rampardos can do that something else can't do better, but this was largely true for Rampardos already; I am pretty sure it currently remains ranked for its Scarf set alone as it was well established that Rampardos had very little going for it in the first place. Archeops, Mold Breaker Pinsir, and Sash Aurorus make for more effective anti-Xatu Stealth Rock leads that were at the same time less predictable about it, if not are just trickier for opponents to work around; Scarf Barbaracle hits a better Speed tier (outspeeds Swellow), has better typing both offensively and defensively, nabs the same KOes on most offensive mons thanks to Tough Claws, can threaten to bluff Shell Smash to land unexpectedly fast hits, and can even ditch Scarf if need be with Switcheroo; and the presence of other powerful Rock-types such as Kabutops, (SD) Rhydon, and especially Aggron mean Rampardos has barely any merit as a Rock-type wallbreaker either. Another mon that begs the question of why it's still here, and what can it offer at this point?

Edit:

Aggron now gives this extreme competition in the Head Smashing department, and takes advantage of more walls than Relicanth ever could as well. There's also the fact that there is pretty much nothing Relicanth can break that Aggron cannot already bust through as well. I mean Reli can deal with Ground-types better, but since it carries a weakness to them, it's not like Reli can switch in freely and use them as free wallbreaking opportunities. Defensively it is eclipsed by Spikes Omastar and Solid Rock Carracosta, and it fares against offense only so slightly better than Aggron (it can get in one hit vs physical Normal-types) that it makes minimal difference, and you'd have better consistency using Aggron + something that actually properly handles offense. This stands to drop to C- or lower.

 

[Take Azelfie]

So I've noticed Flareon being moved to D Rank back at ~start of May, before D Rank was revamped, and recently it was allowed to go back to C-. I don't really understand why since it just doesn't seem Flareon excels or even functions properly at anything in this meta. For starters, it is largely outclassed by AV Magmortar when it comes to checking things, as they both have good Special Defense but Mortar's coverage and the fact that it's not killing itself with its main STAB move makes it far more self-sufficient; in fact that recoil makes it so that you're not even using Flareon on the pretense of checking things since it gets worn down way too fast to feasibly do so.

Even its worth as a wallbreaker comes into question when it is slow, is weak to Stealth Rock, has poor Defense and HP, constantly weakens itself, and gets forced out way more often than it can come in. These flaws are exploitable to the point where something like bulky SD Charizard can hard check it, not to mention the numerous physically defensive Fire resists that easily sponge up Flare Blitzes, many of which aren't so easily dispatched by Superpower, so Flareon's lone advantage, which is its raw power, becomes severely undermined as well. I highly doubt there's even a unique combination of Pokemon that Flareon specifically can break. Personally I feel Rapidash is more worthy of this spot than Flareon is, because at least Rapidash has a far better Speed tier and more movepool diversity (such as Wild Charge and Morning Sun) to at least allow itself to remain relevant on a slightly more consistent level, but obviously my main point is 'why is Flareon still here'?

if you guys unrank flareon i will return from the abyss and take half of you motherfuckers down with me so help me god

That is why oo

Mismagius
A- ---> B+
Mismagius hasn't been shining too much recently for quite a few reasons. 1) It sucks ffensively without a boost from NP or status (Hex) while Rotom also has that secondary STAB to help apply pressure with paras and momentum. It even faces a lot of competition from Haunted who doesn't let MegaDino waltz in almost whenever it wants. 2) There are better stall breakers at such as Jynx who also has a better match up versus different playstyles like BO and even HO. I could thrown in a bunch of other random facts but they really wouldn't contribute to the theme of my argument like how prone it is to status and it's pitiful defense. I think Mismag is facing too much competition at the moment to remain A-

 

[Froggyboy]

Speaking of physical Fire types, I think Rapidash should be on the rankings, even if it is just C-. I remember Rapidash being brought up way back in XY or early-early ORAS, but the general consensus was that it was outclassed by Flareon. And really, I don't think this is true.
The first and most obvious distinction between the two is the fact that Rapidash is much faster than Flareon, reaching 339 speed, letting it outspeed things Flareon could only dream of. Secondly, the coverage of Rapidash also lets it stand out, having Fire/Electric/Ground coverage, all of which hit decently hard with 100 base attack + Life orb. The combined two attributes lets it revenge a wider variety of Pokemon that Flareon would be forced out vs, like Charizard, Jynx, Lilligant, Lanturn, among other things.
While it is still kinda weak and doesn't have good defensive utility outside of absorbing wisp, it is still decent, and C- would reflect its usefulness well.

 

[MONNA LUSA]

Tropius UR -> C-

Hide

Tropius @ Lum Berry
Ability: Harvest
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Roost
- Leaf Blade
- Natural Gift

This mon is bad. Like Really Really bad: it has decent bulk, bad attack power, bad defensive typing, awful speed tier and sets up on very few things in the meta. It needs lots of support for being run on serious teams. It is scared of stuff like Knock Off / Trick / Switcheroo and everything that can mess up your item. However i feel like it deserves some justice: it's the only pokemon that can have the combination of Lum Berry, Harvest and STAB Natural Gift with a boosting move in the package being able to setup on passive mons that usually rely on status to wear down the opposing Pokemon (ie Stunfisk, Gourgiest, Support Audino, Ferroseed and even Bulky Waters lacking Ice Beam from the moveset). Unsolid is the best abjective for this mon. Sometimes this thing is your sackslot and other times this mon is the wincon. His bad matchups are overwhelming. I'd say it's C- because it has a niche in the meta, with downsides but yeah it has a niche.

 

[etern]

RE Rapidash: One of the main reasons Rapidash wasnt ranked in the past is because of how easily common Fire-type resists such as Regirock and Rhydon can just put it to a halt, not to mention how fast it gets worn down between LO recoil, Flare Blitz recoil, and Stealth Rock damage. I havent used it myself personally, so some high quality replays would definitely be helpful.

I've got a nom of my own with Liepard

B > B+
After using this mon a ton for the past couple weeks its kinda insane how many options it is. The Nasty Plot set is an awesome sweeper that has a surprising amount of setup opportunities thanks to Encore, and priority Copycat in general is just amazing utility for copying things like Stealth Rock, Quiver Dance, and even Baton Pass. Lots of people have been using the CB set recently which is also really nice as a Pursuit trapper and can lure in a lot with cool coverage options such as Play Rough, Seed Bomb, and Gunk Shot. Then of course there's the Weather setting set which is undoubtedly the best one in the tier. Liepard does have some flaws though, due to its paper-thin bulk, and somewhat middling offenses versus neutral opponents, however I think it would be worth considering a rise to B+.

 

[Deeerpz]

I want to second the Liepard nomination.
What I think makes this mon so good, between the multitude of different sets archetypes it can run, is the fact that it's movepool is amazingly scary. Even if it's the more standard Liepard set with Black Glasses or Dread Plate, you never know which combination of T-Wave, U-Turn, Knock Off, Sucker Punch, Pursuit, Taunt, Encore etc. etc. it will run. The fact you can tailor it's moveset to specifically fit your team is something that definitely sets it apart from a lot of the mons in B-Rank, like Zangoose, Primeape, Manectric and Sligoo. Liepard is more akin to B+ - Rank mons like Vileplume, Pinsir and Carracosta, all of which are highly customizable.

 

[Mega-Pokebattlerz]

Tropius UR -> C-

Hide

Tropius @ Lum Berry
Ability: Harvest
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Roost
- Leaf Blade
- Natural Gift

This mon is bad. Like Really Really bad: it has decent bulk, bad attack power, bad defensive typing, awful speed tier and sets up on very few things in the meta. It needs lots of support for being run on serious teams. It is scared of stuff like Knock Off / Trick / Switcheroo and everything that can mess up your item. However i feel like it deserves some justice: it's the only pokemon that can have the combination of Lum Berry, Harvest and STAB Natural Gift with a boosting move in the package being able to setup on passive mons that usually rely on status to wear down the opposing Pokemon (ie Stunfisk, Gourgiest, Support Audino, Ferroseed and even Bulky Waters lacking Ice Beam from the moveset). Unsolid is the best abjective for this mon. Sometimes this thing is your sackslot and other times this mon is the wincon. His bad matchups are overwhelming. I'd say it's C- because it has a niche in the meta, with downsides but yeah it has a niche.

Wait, hold up; its niche is supposed to be:

However i feel like it deserves some justice: it's the only pokemon that can have the combination of Lum Berry, Harvest and STAB Natural Gift with a boosting move in the package being able to setup on passive mons that usually rely on status to wear down the opposing Pokemon (ie Stunfisk, Gourgiest, Support Audino, Ferroseed and even Bulky Waters lacking Ice Beam from the moveset).

Er... I feel like that's an incredibly specific "niche" for a Pokémon with so many downsides. Not to mention it loses to Jynx, Aurorus and the plethora of Fire-types in the tier, and is almost always outclassed by other Grass-type wincons such as Lilligant (Quiver Dance) and Ludicolo (Swift Swim). No way in hell is this POS getting ranked.

 

[MONNA LUSA]

How's this specific? Tropius is almost completely immune to status long term, it's even immune to Leech Seed. That's a specific niche isn't it? I don't think you can Outclass that so easily.
And also wtf is Jynx supposed to be a counter? I mean ok you can argue that i can't switch Tropius into Jynx's lovely kiss. But at plus one Jynx is Outsped and ohko'ed and Aurorus isn't a counter either. Magmortar has problems too switching into.
DO IT FOR MEMES Tropius UR -> C-

 

[SlickHippo99]

Frankly, there is very little reason to use Tropius. It's a sitting duck and hits like a wet noodle before setting up, and even then it lacks any way to break common mons like Garbodor, Weezing, Skuntank, Steelix (though it can't do much back admittedly), and really any physical wall not weak to grass. Even at +1, it fails to out speed base 105 mons like Scyther and Manectric that can OHKO it easily, not to mention base 110 mons like Archeops and Tauros. There's also Swellow and a ton of priority around in the tier. I'd rather use Sub SD Leafeon since it isn't much slower, hits much harder, and has Knock Off and Baton Pass, and that's saying a lot because SD Leafeon isn't that good. Other sweepers like Shell Smash Omastar and Barbaracle, Lilligant, and Vivillon are much more immediately threatening than Tropius. Unlike other late game cleaners like Tauros, Tropius provides almost zero midgame utility aside from eating status, and is an invitation for opposing mons like Steelix to come in and take advantage by setting up or setting hazards. Tropius might be a good meme, but the whole point of the viability rankings is to help players know what to use in the tier and what's good, and Tropius most certainly is not.

 

[Deeerpz]

To the set that was provided here, the closes thing we have to it is honestly CM Xatu, which is a better status absorber no question, because not only do you not get statussed - your opponents do. Not to mention the added bonus of hazard control, which is desperately needed if you want to run pokemon that lose 1/4 of their HP each time they come in on SR. It also sports a boosting move, can still set up on bulky water types that lack Ice coverage thanks to Giga Drain (yay, not wasting turns to roost), and honestly between it's vastly superior move pool and the fact you become much more threatening after your boosts (for example, Tropius still fails to outspeed relevant threats after 1 DD, while Xatu can live an Ice Beam from Jynx after 1 CM and OHKO it with Heat Wave), I don't see how it has a niche.

At the end of the day, if I want to set up on predicted status moves, I might aswell use Xatu. If I want to abuse predicted switch ins into bulky waters, I might aswell set up with Lilligant, who generally sweeps before Toxic or Will-O get the better of her, or puts all T-Wave users bar Evire (lol) to sleep. If I want a grass type setup sweeper that is resilient to status moves, I might aswell use Lum Berry Shiftry, which tears through teams at +2 already.

It's a fun meme no doubt, but I don't think Tropius deserves any kind of ranking in this meta.

 

[Machiavelli]

Why are you all talking about some lum berry ddance set? the only relevant set has always been the substitute + leech seed set, which is can beat opposing grass types and stall out weak pokemon with sitrus berry. If you're going to argue something's viability, at least argue the relevant sets

 

[Pilo]

To put it simply, I think Tropius has too many flaws to function effectively on a serious NU team. As others have mentioned, Tropius has so few advantages over other Grass-type wincons that I don't think the DD Lum set should be considered in the viability rankings no matter how well it fulfills this overly specific niche. Tropius makes for a pretty bad sweeper, its damage is negligible at best and as mentioned above, its speed tier is so poor it fails to outspeed most of the tier's faster mons even after a boost. The DD set is pretty much just a bad gimmick and the SubSeed set while slightly better is still pretty subpar.

 

[ryan]

Not to discourage discussion, but I mean it's Tropius. We don't need to go on that long on its merits or lack thereof. We aren't going to rank something "for the memes".

I'd also like to mention that the whole point of making D rank a place for bad Pokemon that are NU by usage was to show what's bad, not to move bad stuff up to C-. Let's not just make C- the new D.

 

[boltsandbombers]

Update:

Liepard B -> B+
Relicanth C -> C-
Bronzor C- -> C
Rampardos C- -> UR
Flareon C- -> UR

New rule: for all nominations that are nominating unranked Pokemon to be ranked, replays will be required.

Needs more discussion:

Tangela C+ -> C
Raichu C+ -> B-