ok but are we not stretching by saying that a 4 turn strategy (turn 1 scoli-tect, turn 2 scoli-pass, turn 3 espeon calm mind, turn 4 espeon +1 stored power) that ultimately is beaten by a lot of steels is OP? and if someone has let more than that happen (say +3 espeon, for example), then that's just their fault for letting a mon get 4 boosts, same as any other setup-mon.
It's not just Espeon when you've got shit like Mega Heracross and Manaphy that can also get boosts passed to them.
used by Confide, Googly, and Floppy - Although they were also seen using a few other squads, these three qualifiers were some of the main players to use BP during the cycle. This team appears to be the main BP squad running around and is centered around using Scolipede to pass as many boosts as possible to the appropriate member. Like this replay shows, some variants are even purposefully using Female on Scolipede with Attract to potentially immobilize foes and gain free turns. The receivers are all scary after being passed 1. speed boosts, and 2. a higher chance to score critical hits assuming Scolipede has activated its berry. Espeon is the staple, abusing boosts with Stored Power and possessing Magic Bounce to stop any status or phazing attempts in their tracks. Mega Hera and Manaphy are two of the most potent offensive threats in the tier, mainly held back by their speed. Being passed speed boosts by Scolipede fixes this to an extent and makes them all the more dangerous. Replays can be found by searching 'LT4Q Floppy' and 'LT4P Googly' here.
Okay, so you bring in your steel expecting Espeon to come in... I just baton pass my speed/sub into like a Mega Heracross or Manaphy and now what? You sack multiple mons to stop the thing brought in because your prediction was wrong. Now Scolipede comes out again; you've sacked your Espeon answer (and if not, you've sacked like 3 mons) and Espeon can now sweep. Baton Pass + Speed Boost is broken, always has been, always will be
OK, now that things aren't in a vacuum I can see this thing working as a pseudo permanent double dance.
Before BP and gothitrap ban both could be used to remove anything threatening the chain, this is why I listed it.
Incorrect. The discussion was about espeon being the answer to roar phazing, so if it's not espeon that came out, whatever you switched into just got roared. the steel was in response to espeon, not anticipation.
I agree that Quagsire is a counter but Hippo I think is more of a Check
how so? Hippo takes any hit bisharp throws at it, and OHKOs with EQ. Hippo takes a +2 Adamant Life Orb Knock Off and OHKOs.
With defog and intimidate in the metagame Bisharp basically can take on hippo well
It's cause there are more forced males than there are forced females, and all the notable forced females are used as setup bait by either Scolipede or it's teammates anyway.
I'm leading Mega Zam and geting boosts laong side you. Wht's your counterplay?
You lead Talon I hard switch to Thundurus. You lead Zam I make a strategic sac. Of course this is assuming that you lead Scolipede as opposed to immediately leading off with a breaker that can beat these things. The way the style works is that it creates a scenario where you can have Scoli safely sub up. VS Hera and Gardevoir it is harder, and at the end of the day it is matchup based (that's the entire draw of the style, in that it can often win or lose a game on team preview similarly to wonder trio, and it wins more times than it loses), I'll give you that, but Talon and Zam simply are not consistent stops to this at all. The taunt 50:50s stop being 50:50s as soon as you get +1 speed because if you sub as they come in you protect and then go to something else to eat the taunt, whereas if you don't it is almost always a better play to go to what you want to bring. If it's offensive chomp you can literally go to Hera with little-to-no repercussions 'cause you live a +0 Fire Fang and OHKO or significantly cripple back with Pin Missile. The Scoli player is at an advantage in the setup war scenario because it only needs to win one 50:50 whereas the opponent needs to win multiple in a row (including the one on the turn Scolipede uses BP) to not lose to whatever comes out, and this is completely huge. You don't need "perfect prediction" because Scolipede is almost completely autopilot, and in the small number of prediction cases around 90% of them can be rendered in favor of the Scoli player by speed boosts.
If you lead megazam, it's very hard to sack tankchomp, that is really only used for msciz and birds then go back into scoli, get a speed boost and revenge zam with megahorn. If you see a talon, you almost always lead with tankchomp to get up rocks to pressure it, offensive chomp is funny because you can just bp into mhera and ohko, go into mana and beam, or just sack ur tankchomp for helmet recoil. The difference is that certain offensive boosters have to win multiple 50/50s (sd on tect/sub) whereas scoli really only has to win the one on the bp, assuming that you won the 50/50 to break the sub lol. Obviously these mons have decent MUs vs the team, but it's not even close to an autowin lol.
