Other ORAS OU Type Analysis: Week 16 - Dark Type [Check post #140]

[Jaroda]

Fire typing has had quite the metamorphosis over the generations. It was pretty bad initially with the prevalence of Water and Ground. Slowly but surely however, Fire has come to be one of the top 5 typings in the game, both offensively and defensively. It's one of the few types to resist Fairy, and one of the few to be super effective against Steel. While weak to Stealth Rock, it's main defensive hindrance, there are several dual typings to alleviate this like Fire/Fighting and Fire/Steel. The inability to be burned also makes them one of the more reliable offensive typings. And while it is weak to Water and Ground as well, there are ways to get around or mitigate this including Levitate, dual Fire/Flying typing, and Sunny Day, which helps all Fire types offensively and defensively.

Mega Camerupt has proved to be underwhelming outside of Trick Room. It's certainly usable, but not a prominant threat.

Mega Houndoom is deadly. It's amazing against Stall and a natural enemy to Mega Metagross. It has the trollish 115 speed tier, great power, brutal offensive STABs for the meta (Dark Pulse flinches are also trollish), Destiny Bond for last ditch kills, and Sunny Day is viable over Nasty Plot to be able to use Solar Beam and Solar Power. Scarf Lando-T is obviously a problem, as is Azumarill and Mega Altaria, so its far from broken.

Volcarona is under prepared for, which can be deadly because it has all the tools it needs to overwhelm many team archetypes.

And as I've been campaigning for a lot recently, Emboar needs a look. It now currently has enough unique tools to be a distinguished and usable offensive Fire type, and its SubPunch set specifically with Sucker Punch is extremely deadly for balance, BO and HO.

 

[AM]

Hi just a quick update.

I deleted a bunch of posts from earlier in regards to the Fairy discussion. Some of you had related information however with that being said this information was mixed in with responses that was fueling the argument prior to me being notified and deleted. I didn't have time then but I do now to respond to the argument. If there is an issue with a user notify the moderator team and we'll take care of it as soon as we are able to. There's no point in going on and on with someone that either is completely oblivious or is unaware of what is and what isn't allowed in this particular sub-forum. With that said if you responded to the user in question more than likely your post was deleted. No need to reply to this message, so carry on.

 

[kiloments]

The interesting about the fire type that it wasn't really seen as a defensive typing bar certain mons like Tran and Rotom Heat. With the introduction of the fairy type as well as the rise in steel type attackers, mons like talonflame and zard are running defensive sets.

 

[Kurona]

I think it's very much worth noting how much Talonflame has changed. While arguably one of if not the best revenge killer in OU back in XY with it's Band set, Banded Talonflame is arguably it's worst set now; with the SD set being a lot more effective.
And honestly I can vouch for this. Get Rotom-W and Heatran off the field; maybe Ferro because fuck recoil, and you have yourself an absolute monster on your hands that finds so many opportunities to set up it's ridiculous. It's almost like a budget Charizard X in it's speed, power from set up, not being able to get burnt etc.

 

[You...You...]

• Mega Houndoom has a reputation for being underrated. Is it as effective as some make it out to be?

I think that while Mega Houndoom looks good on paper it is sadly held back by its frailty and reliance on its STABs for coverage which are resisted by a number of common mons such as Azumaril, Keldeo, Mega Gyarados and Mega Altaria. It has such an awesome design so I wish it was better. I honestly think it isn't exactly underrated right now, it used to be underrated before and now that people are starting to realise that, they are overrating it instead. Idk whether that makes sense but it does to me.

• Charizard-X seems to have fallen from grace. What are it's best sets right now?

I think Zard-X is as good as it was in X and Y now that the meta is adapting to Lando-T (hence Lando-T dropping to A+ in the viability ranking thread) so I actually think he's quite underrated and underprepared for right now which is a first for charizard. I think the bulky wisp set is now inferior to the dragon dance sets with the better DD set probably being the offensive one.

• What are Victini's best sets in the current meta?

Victini is pretty good in the current meta and I've used it quite a bit because I don't want to get destroyed by another Mega Metagross and I want to run a more offensive team. Scarf is probably the best set but I'm quite liking Band and SubPuP right now so I need to test those to more.

• Is Mega Camerupt useful outside of Trick Room?

Yes, Mega Camerupt is decent outside of Trick Room with the Sub set but there is little reason to use it over another Mega.

• Is Volcarona reemerging in the OU metagame?

Yes, Volcarona has been underrated for a while and now, finally, with a few more good qualities, it's starting to be recognised.

• What are Rotom-H's niches over Rotom-W?

Rotom-H's niches are checking/countering a few different pokes and being able to pull off choices sets more effectively partly due to having a higher BP special Rotom Form move.

• Edit: a few people have mentioned this so, how about that Reckless Emboar?

I'm not that hyped about this thing in OU though there is a big power difference, but I'm looking forward to using it on lower tiers.





Fire is a pretty strong type and is a requirement for most of my teams.

 

[Kurona]

What are Victini's best sets in the current meta?
Victini is pretty good in the current meta and I've used it quite a bit because I don't want to get destroyed by another Mega Metagross and I want to run a more offensive team. Scarf is probably the best set but I'm quite liking Band and SubPuP right now so I need to test those to more.

I'd like to expand a little on this. When in the teambuilding process I find it incredibly hard to find even a check to Mega Metagross on offensive teams -- I've found that Victini fills this role rather well, more than most Pokémon, with it's scarf set.
252 Atk Victini V-create vs. 80 HP / 0 Def Mega Metagross: 344-408 (107.1 - 127.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
80 HP is the bulkiest I've seen Metagross go - for the RP set - which Victini still takes care of. Unfortunately, Victini cannot outspeed it after RP but it can take even an Adamant Earthquake:-
252+ Atk Mega Metagross Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Victini: 260-306 (76.2 - 89.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Unfortunately this will make Victini the biggest pursuit bait of all time afterwards and honestly the fact this is one of Metagross' best checks on offensive teams is one of the reasons I think it should go, but it's most certainly worth noting imo.

 

[Flygoner818]

Victini has always been a unique Pokemon, sort of awful defensive typing with an amazing movepool and the stats to abuse it. So it's nice to see it getting some love in ORAS OU. It checks a lot of the metagame now, including MLopunny, MegaGross, MSableye, MAltaria, MSceptile...basically any Mega with a stab it can switch into. Plus it has such amazing synergy with offensive Waters (Gyarados, Keldeo, Azumarill) and puts so much pressure on the opponent if it can get in clean. Scarf is definitely his best set right now, as Sub PuP doesn't have the chops to keep up with MLopunny and can't boost on MSableye, though the Special lure is awesome for breaking stall. Looking forward to seeing him evolve with the meta.

Victini @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 28 HP / 252 Atk / 228 Spe
Adamant Nature
- V-Create
- U-Turn
- Final Gambit / Zen Headbutt
- Zen Headbutt / Bolt Strike

 

[Panda Monium]

I'd say that while Wisp Zard X really declined in usefulness, as well as Bulky DD, offensive DD is as good as ever, and not being burned is bigger than ever with MegaEye, who gets set up on by Zard X. Zard Y is just as good as before, really. Most of the new megas can't stomach a hit or two, and it just hits really hard.

Assuming it's SD, this also beats MegaEye, but WoW versions lose to it. Still dangerous, though now a Jolly nature is mostly better than Adamant because of the speedy Megas. Again, not much changed.

It works well on both Stall and Offense, as Stall can use its resists and Offense loves a Banded nuke (or Specs lure). The Specs set can lure in Lando-T which is pretty useful.

Somewhat viable outside of Trick Room if your team needs a full on Electric counter, except for Focus Blast LO Nasty Plot Thundurus-T (+2 252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus-T Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 326-385 (94.7 - 111.9%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO) But other than that, the Earthquake weakness and its pitiful speed make it mostly outclassed by Zard Y, unless you really need a Fire-type that can get by Tyranitar and Heatran.

I'll post more on the rest later.

 

[brightlights]

Given the current meta I feel like this set, at least given the nature of this thread, deserves a place here. It saw a rise in use back when Mega Mawile was running around in OU, and now with the prominence of MegaGross it has some potential again.

• What other Pokemon of this type also claim some sort of viability in OU?
• What Pokemon of this type fill a niche in OU which is sometimes worth considering in a team?

Arcanine @ Leftovers / Rocky Helmet
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Extreme Speed
- Will-O-Wisp / Toxic
- Morning Sun


Arc is a very decent check to Mega Metagross provided it's not running the suboptimal EQ but the standard HammerArm/Mash/Zen/GrassKnot set. 90/80 defenses factoring in intimidate is comparable to LandoT's defenses (just an illustration, I am aware that they fit completely different roles). The best thing Gross can do, provided clear body from reg Meta didn't block intimidate: -1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Zen Headbutt vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Arcanine: 105-124 (27.4 - 32.3%). Moreover, if you decide to run Helmet, any sort of passive damage off on MegaMetagross is fantastic.

Arc fits decently well on bulky teams, especially with Mega Altaria and some other popular mons/sets like Celebi to take on Keldeo, which is commonly run with MegaGross, and SD Gliscor. Of course rocks hurt it upon switchin, which is why defensive fires are always rather frowned upon, but it's got reliable recovery to make up for it (sand hurts it though). Even though uninvested nonstab Espeed doesn't hit hard at all, any form of priority on a team never hurts. Another option is running dual status, both Wisp and Toxic, or even CC to hit Trans that think they hard wall you. It isn't the next big thing or anything, but all in all it's a fun mon that could definitely be considered for certain teams, and can leave your opponent guessing early game as to which mons can safely switch in without getting statussed or taking a somewhat heavy hit.

 

[Celticpride]

Loving the discussion so far guys (just fyi, I'm not giving individual posts "likes" in this topic because I don't want to appear biased).

Week 3's type is type is Grass Type!

(Note that discussion isn't limited to the above Pokemon)

Alright, the usual questions in the OP apply. As far as more specific questions (that I already know the answers to, they just spark conversation :P):

• We've had Contrary Serperior for a few weeks now. It's wrecked some lower tiers, but how is OU adapting to it?
• Celebi has recently moved up to OU, as well as risen up to A rank in the viability thread. Why?
• Mega Venusaur's usage has fallen in ORAS. Is this due to new toy syndrome, or something more?
• Does Breloom have any utility outside of a lead set? If so, what sets?
• Chesnaught seems to be using some more offensive sets recently. Is it a fad or a more long-term trend?
• What are Tangrowth's uses in OU over other Grass types?

Feel free to talk about any trends or new sets among OU viable Grass types as well. Talk about as much or as little as you like. Happy discussing!

 

[bludz]

IMO Mega Venusaur's usage has dropped primarily due to Metagross and Sableye which both beat it. Besides that I think it's actually kind of underused since it's an amazing tank with only 2 weaknesses and beats a ton of common stuff like Keldeo and Azumarill, as well as being the best poison type fairy check (Gengar may be faster but it cannot switch in to much). It suffers from being weak to Latis and Talonflame as well but there are plenty of partners to handle those.

As for Chesnaught offensive sets, they really aren't that common. It seems like a fad to me but may prove to be effective in the long run because nobody prepares for it (lol Latis OHKO'd by +6 Seed Bomb). Personally I think even if its bread and butter defensive set is very predictable it does its job very well and is IMO underused.

Serperior is actually a pretty big threat unless you have something like Heatran or Togekiss which hard counters it even after +4. It's not something that needs to be considered too heavily in teambuilding as most of the time you will have a check without trying but it shouldn't be forgotten especially because of its great speed tier.

Celebi is so great because of its versatility. I think offensive sets are becoming more common and that's part of what has lead to a rise because most people are expecting T-Wave/Giga Drain/Recover/filler defensive sets. There's a lure set posted in a Guide to Good Lures in ORAS which slams the common steel type switchins like Skarmory, Ferrothorn and Heatran (I have used this set and if there is a Heatran you almost always lure and kill it, works great against Bisharp too). You can also pass boosts with Nasty Plot OR Swords Dance which is pretty awesome. The defensive sets are still really good since Celebi has enough bulk to check things like Metagross with the threat of Thunder Wave.

 

[michaeloche]

Does Breloom have any utility outside of a lead set? If so, what sets?

Yes. It still has that pesky Poison Heal business, although Gliscor mostly does that better. It also has Technician, which has much improved coverage with the Rock Tomb buff this gen, plus priority and a way to bust Substitute/Sash/Sturdy. (edit for clarification: it doesn't have to be a lead, but has issues switching in due to low bulk)

Chesnaught seems to be using some more offensive sets recently. Is it a fad or a more long-term trend?

I can see why this is happening. Chesnaught's offensive movepool got a major buff in ORAS, gaining Thunder Punch, Knock Off, and Drain Punch, plus Synthesis iirc. That said, however, it's still best as a supporter, gaining an edge over the likes of Ferrothorn with better offensive presence and reliable recovery outside of Leech Seed. I'd call offensive Chesnaught a fad, but it still has its uses, surprise factor if nothing else.

What are Tangrowth's uses in OU over other Grass types?

Ah, my avatarmon. Tangrowth is the only Grass type (and one of the few mons in general) that can run the combination of Assault Vest and Regenerator viably, patching up its middling special bulk and really only sacrificing Sleep Powder. It also has pretty good offensive stats on both sides of the spectrum, with, among other things, Power Whip, Knock Off, Earthquake, and Rock Slide for physical and Leaf Storm, Giga Drain, Ancient Power, and Hidden Power for special. Of course, it can still run Leftovers to get Sleep Powder back, but that set is pretty well outclassed by Amoonguss, who also gets Regenerator, but also has a better defensive typing and, more importantly, a better sleep move.

Also, if you want to use both offensive stats on a Tangrowth, you should run a speed-reducing nature, as alluded to here (I know this was written for RU, but the point still stands), as you don't cut into your bulk and won't be outspeeding much anyway.

 

[SketchUp]

• We've had Contrary Serperior for a few weeks now. It's wrecked some lower tiers, but how is OU adapting to it?

It is a pretty good pokemon in OU, but I don't consider it a top tier threat as it still has way to many flaws that prevent it from doing much work every game. If you wait untill the next moment it can definitely demolish the opposing team, but I'm not convinced it will be a threat on consistent base

• Celebi has recently moved up to OU, as well as risen up to A rank in the viability thread. Why?

Because it is good

• Mega Venusaur's usage has fallen in ORAS. Is this due to new toy syndrome, or something more?

Yes. If anything, Mega Venusaur definitely didn't got worse. Keldeo gets much usage, Mega Pinsir doesn't even get enough usage for OU, new threats as Mega Altaria doesn't like Venu, Landorus-I and Thundurus don't run Psychic that often anymore and stuff like Azumarill is still very common. The introduction of Mega Metagross, Mega Sableye and Mega Gallade sucks, but the other changes only made it better than worse

• Does Breloom have any utility outside of a lead set? If so, what sets?

The Poison Heal SD set from Dougboy's Rain Team is very good. Outside of the Spore + 3 Atk sets I don't think anything else is very good.

 

[silver97]

-serperior is a pokemon with a meiocre type, mediocre stats and mediocre movepool. However, GF gave it this wonderful ability that made it rise from the depth of PU and became even OU viable. I saw it being used even in tournament matches, it is not the best mon in the world for those things i listed before, but still a huge threats if not prepared to face it; among those "meh" stats we can find also a pretty good speed that is enough to outspeed the crowd at 110 and makes it a pain to face for offense, the best way to check it is probably slapping a random bird on the team like tornadus.t/m-pidgeot/talon/m-pinsir because they can all take a leaf storm and then outspeed and kill (or use priority to kill) serperior; for this reason i would suggest teammates that can deal with birdspam such as ttar or electric types.
-celebi has always been quite good as it boasts a unique typing that makes it a full stop for mons like breloom that can be quite annoying to face. It probably rose in usage because of "new toys" of oras as it walls significant threats like m-lopunny or mega slowbro while providing a wonderful support to teammates with rocks or nasty passes.
-i don't think m-venusaur's fall is due to oras coming out and the new threats it brought, while it has been a protagonist of the first part of xy, its usage has always been decreasing since the decline of stall teams based on venu/amoonguss FWG cores, when the meta became more and more offensive it could adapt to a new role as a bulky attacker in bulky offense team but it never faced the popularity it had before; oras just added new threats that make all more difficult for venusaur.
-actually i'm not using lead set because it lacks needed power imo. On the other hand LO sd loom hits ridicolously hard. just look at this:
252 Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Bullet Seed (5 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latios: 235-280 (78.5 - 93.6%) -- approx. 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
it has insane wallbreaking capabilities amplified by those free turns created by spore that let him easily set a sd. Not to mention its STAB priority:
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 278-329 (86 - 101.8%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
-honestly all the offensive sets i've seen on chesnaught are just gimmicks (omg drumnaught) and i actually haven't seen one really effective; it still awesome at checking physical sweepers and giving an alternative to ferro that resists ground and is not fight-weak, except it lacks stealth rock, but still a rwally valuable option as spikes setter.

 

[AM]

You forgot Sunkern

We've had Contrary Serperior for a few weeks now. It's wrecked some lower tiers, but how is OU adapting to it?

People are starting to realize it isn't all hype. I mean it gets worn down pretty easily due to its sub par bulk, life orb recoil, and mono typing but it's a good late-game cleaner and revenge killer and Clefable taking like half or more from Serperior at +2 is no joke.

Celebi has recently moved up to OU, as well as risen up to A rank in the viability thread. Why?

Cause it has a bunch of utility with defensive sets that check a bunch of dangerous threats like m-lopunny and m-diancie. Also Keldeo usage rose and when water usage rises so does Celebi's usage. Plus Baton Passing stat boosts is always nice as well.

Mega Venusaur's usage has fallen in ORAS. Is this due to new toy syndrome, or something more?

New toy syndrome a bit until you realize that M-Gross is on half the offensive teams these days and completely demolishes it. Also the fact it doesn't have the ability to break CM M-Sableye blows as well along with a surge of Talonflame to check both of these a bit so as such M-Venusaur got the short end of the stick. It's sort of passive for the standard that ORAS has now in terms of aggressiveness and that hurts M-Venusaur a bit as well. It's still good though, just too many options to consider.

Does Breloom have any utility outside of a lead set? If so, what sets?

Choice Band, Life Orb, if you're super real Choice Scarf to get the jump on specs and subcm keldeo, a 4 attack LO set with its usual but with Force Palm instead of a utility move, SD Poison Heal attacker, Double Powder similar to Amoonguss with both Spore and Stun Spore + STAB, are pretty much the sets outside of its lead set. Amoong Double Powder is just Giga Drain, Clear Smog, and both powder moves.

Chesnaught seems to be using some more offensive sets recently. Is it a fad or a more long-term trend?

It's not a fad, it was a long time coming. When your claimed set is a defensive set that relies on a garbage mono attacking aspect of fighting and tiny recovery with Leech Seed, sooner or later people are going to realize what's wrong with that. Speedier spreads make sure you're not floored by both Azumarill and burned by Rotom-W. Azumarill has so limited switch ins and the fact that you have the advantage with an optimal EV spread to take it on, who wouldn't want to take that?

BD might be a fad idk but it adds another element to Chesnaught that makes it less linear and makes it even more interesting to use and build around. It's a good set and I sort of laughed when fingerscrossed mentioned it in the OU room and everyone was saying it's bad while I was on ladder 6-0'ing people with it lol.

What are Tangrowth's uses in OU over other Grass types?

Pivoting similar to Amoonguss but with a more offensive presence, higher defense, and a bit more utility to boot. HP Ice to hit Landos and Gliscor, HP fire for Skarmory and Ferrothorn. AV set is one of its best and some like to run a lot of special defense for it to pivot and tank hits much more efficiently from both physical and special attackers. It's a good foundation for a lot of cool and underrated cores like Tang / Slowking, Tang / Empoleon, Tang / CM Manaphy, a lot of cool cores with a good amount of defensive and offensive water types.

As far as more specific questions (that I already know the answers to, they just spark conversation :P):

You should just ask questions you don't know as well. That way I can answer them and explain how to be an innovator

 

[You...You...]

Loving the discussion so far guys (just fyi, I'm not giving individual posts "likes" in this topic because I don't want to appear biased). Just saying but this makes absolutely no sense. Being "Biased" is hardly an issue in this thread which isn't a competition of some sort; it's a discussion. Like people's posts if you want to.

• We've had Contrary Serperior for a few weeks now. It's wrecked some lower tiers, but how is OU adapting to it?

OU hasn't really had to adapt to Contrary Serperior imho, with checks and counters such as talonflame and heatran appearing naturally on teams. That being said it is a massive threat which is still dangerous, especially when paired with Dugtrio.

• Celebi has recently moved up to OU, as well as risen up to A rank in the viability thread. Why?

Mostly because its so versatile with numerous defensive sets which all take advantage of Celebi's unique defensive typing such as SubPass, NastyPass, SDPass and Defensive SR just to name a few. In addition to these it can run some reasonable offensive lure sets such as LO or E-Belt. It is also one of the few true counters to Keldeo who has risen in prominence with Greninja being gone, hence its recent rise to S rank.

• Mega Venusaur's usage has fallen in ORAS. Is this due to new toy syndrome, or something more?

I know it sounds obvious but the reason for Mega Venusaur's downfall is the new Megas. Nearly all of the new Megas either beat or pressure Venusaur and some of them, like Mega Gallade and MegaGross can even beat the infamous VenuTran core without breaking a sweat. The new Megas have also made Latias and Talonflame more prominent which also takes away from Mega Venusaur's effectiveness.

• Does Breloom have any utility outside of a lead set? If so, what sets?

Yes and it has been that way for a long time. Breloom isn't as one-dimensional as most people who use him think. Yes the lead set is excellent for putting on pressure, crippling an opponent and getting a couple of kills but there are other sets that fall under the radar which I believe should get more usage. Here are some examples:

Sets

Breloom @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly/Adamant Nature
- Spore
- Mach Punch
- Focus Punch/Rock Tomb
- Bullet Seed

Breloom @ Life Orb/Focus Sash
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Spore/Rock Tomb
- Mach Punch
- Swords Dance
- Bullet Seed

LO Loom is pretty straightforward, it utilises a powerful Techinician+ LO Mach Punch for revenge killing, Bullet Seed for coverage and wallbreaking abillity and Spore + Focus Punch nuking things on the switch. Focus Punch also comes in handy against things it forces out, to nuke the incoming poke. To give you an idea LO Breloom's Focus Punch does a minimum of 63% to Non-Naive Latios meaning that even Jolly Variants are guaranteed to kill with Focus + Mach Punch after rocks and Adamant has decent chance to kill without rocks. Oh yeah almost forgot, Rock Tomb is also a (boring and uncool) option.

Calcs

252 Atk Life Orb Breloom Focus Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latios: 191-226 (63.8 - 75.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latios: 77-91 (25.7 - 30.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Breloom Focus Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latios: 211-248 (70.5 - 82.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latios: 84-100 (28 - 33.4%) -- 0% chance to 3HKO


252+ Atk Life Orb Breloom Focus Punch vs. 72 HP / 0 Def Latias: 191-225 (59.8 - 70.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 72 HP / 0 Def Latias: 77-90 (24.1 - 28.2%) -- 94.2% chance to 4HKO

252 Atk Life Orb Breloom Focus Punch vs. 72 HP / 0 Def Latias: 174-205 (54.5 - 64.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 72 HP / 0 Def Latias: 70-82 (21.9 - 25.7%) -- 2.7% chance to 4HKO

SD Loom is another viable Breloom set which is often more of a late game cleaner but sometimes a wallbreaker depending on the team matchup. Sash is an option over LO as it makes Breloom very difficult to deal with but LO's power really helps.

Calcs

+1 252 Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Bullet Seed (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Landorus-T: 282-330 (73.8 - 86.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Bullet Seed (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 56+ Def Gliscor: 339-402 (95.7 - 113.5%) -- approx. 87.5% chance to OHKO

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Metagross: 179-212 (59.4 - 70.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Poison Heal is may also viable but I don't really know much about it so I'll leave it up to people who know better to discuss it.

 

[Celticpride]

Week 4's type is type is Water Type!

(Note that discussion isn't limited to the above Pokemon)

Alright, the usual questions in the OP apply. As far as more specific questions:

• Politoed (the king of Rain) has shown an increase in usage in recent months. Is Rain as a playstyle on the rise?
• What benefits does Mega Swampert offer to Rain teams?
• Mega Gyarados recently gained a strong Dark STAB move (Crunch). What impact has this had on its effectiveness?
• Tentacruel and Empoleon were fast rising stars, mostly due to their ability to check GunkNinja. Do they have viable use in OU outside of checking the frog and if so what use?
• Why is SubCM Keldeo, possibly the hottest set in the meta right now, so effective?
• What is Azumarill's most effective set?
• Manaphy was considered a one-man army against stall not so long ago. Has stall adapted efficiently to handle it, and if so how?

Feel free to talk about any trends or new sets among OU viable Water types as well. There's definitely some worth discussing that I didn't specifically hit on above (Mega Sharpedo, Slowbro/Slowking, Suicune, Crawdaunt, Blastoise), because there are a ton of Water types that are viable in OU. Talk about as much or as little as you like. Happy discussing!

 

[Anduril]

I'll talk a little about Mega Swampert. I've been recently been using Doughboy's Downpour RMT, and it has been working well to say the least. The dual swift swim core of Kingdra and Swampert works wonders in battering down opposing walls in order for another one to sweep. Swampert in particular is very effective due to its power and above-average bulk. Offering a valuable electric immunity, the ability to check Thundurus, and bulk M-Swampert probably is the second-best swimmer behind Kingdra. Another water type I've been using is Seismitoad on a sand team. Honestly, it is underrated. Checking Lando-T and Rotom-W is a necessity on sand, and Seismitoad does this well, along with being a reliable SR setter. I wouldn't suggest building a team around it though, it really only adds a water immunity wit other benefits.

 

[firehusky]

Politoed (the king of Rain) has shown an increase in usage in recent months. Is Rain as a playstyle on the rise?
Yep, Rain is quite popular now. They got a new mega in the form of Mega Swampert, which offers an Electric immunity. Previously, Thundurus could easily paralyze Swift Swimmers with priority Thunder Wave, ruining their sweep and crippling them. Mega Swampert deals with Thundurus, and can be paired together with Pokemon like Kabutops or Kingdra to break through walls.

What benefits does Mega Swampert offer to Rain teams?
I already said this before, but Mega Swampert offers an important immunity to Paralysis, making it hard to end it's sweep. It also has great bulk, and can sometimes set up SR for the team. Low Kick / Superpower is also useful to help weaken Ferrothorn, but it's still kind of walled by Rotom-W.

Mega Gyarados recently gained a strong Dark STAB move (Crunch). What impact has this had on its effectiveness?
These days, it's most common set is Sub / Dragon Dance / Waterfall / Crunch. It forgoes Earthquake for Crunch, because not lots of mons resist Water Dark coverage (screw keldeo), and Crunch is also STAB. Crunch also hits Rotom-W for decent damage.

Tentacruel and Empoleon were fast rising stars, mostly due to their ability to check GunkNinja. Do they have viable use in OU outside of checking the frog and if so what use?
Tbh, I'm not really a big fan of Empoleon. It lacks reliable recovery, and there are other hazard removers out there like Starmie, Lati twins, and Excadrill, that are just a lot more effective. Tentacruel is still pretty good in this meta, as it goes well with Mega Sableye, checking Heatran and Clefable, two mons that can trouble it. This core has trouble with Mega Gardevoir, so you'll need a Jirachi too. Tentacruel is also a decent rapid spinner.

Why is SubCM Keldeo, possibly the hottest set in the meta right now, so effective?
SubCM Keldeo screws up stall teams like nothing else. Mega Sableye is just so common right now, it's not even funny. imo, Keldeo's specs set isn't as good anymore, due to it's speed tier. It's still a fantastic wallbreaker, but it needs a bit more speed. SubCM Keldeo also trolls reflect type starmie, which is kind of funny, considering how it's supposed to counter it.

What is Azumarill's most effective set?
I'd probably say it's CB. CB is a good check to stuff like mega sableye, and CB aqua jet hits extremely hard. Assault vest is also decent, but it's main use in XY was a greninja check on balanced teams, and ninja is gone already.

Manaphy was considered a one-man army against stall not so long ago. Has stall adapted efficiently to handle it, and if so how?
Unaware Clef is a bit more common. Can't think of anything else though. Isn't haze tentacruel a thing too?

 

[AM]

Politoed (the king of Rain) has shown an increase in usage in recent months. Is Rain as a playstyle on the rise?

It was on the rise since XY. It only took people about a half year to realize that it floors so many effective playstyles. Makes offense a liability since rain just destroys most forms of offense. Ferrothorn is not a check to rain people. Stop using that as the only one.

What benefits does Mega Swampert offer to Rain teams?

Electric immunity, cleaner, bulk, pivot, one weakness, with that Electric immunity comes being immune to Prankster Thunder wave.

Mega Gyarados recently gained a strong Dark STAB move (Crunch). What impact has this had on its effectiveness?

It stopped it from ending up like Mega Tyranitar in the viability rankings rofl. Lets it handle a bunch of stuff like Ferrothorn a bit better than it normally would've before.

Tentacruel and Empoleon were fast rising stars, mostly due to their ability to check GunkNinja. Do they have viable use in OU outside of checking the frog and if so what use?

Spinning and Defog, hazard removal will always be appreciated, especially in a tier unlike a lot of the lower ones that give you some good options for hazard removal that isn't doodoo. Both of them check Fairies a bit which is a necessity to have on any team. Empoleon can run some cool lure sets with its usual utility with Shuca Berry to check Lando-T a bit better, or Life Orb Tentacruel to beat some threats on Balance a bit more easily without being so passive.

Why is SubCM Keldeo, possibly the hottest set in the meta right now, so effective?

Anything that takes a poop on stall and defensive cores is going to have a high usage to begin with and high relevancy. Lando-I, Manaphy, Clefable, etc. with Keldeo being one of these things that breaks balance and stall with sub to alleviate pressure from offense.

What is Azumarill's most effective set?

Whirpool, Perish Song, Aqua Ring, Seismic Toss / Toxic 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD Bold Idk tbh. BD is a pain in the ass but it's not necessarily its best set. It's really team dependent honestly. Sort of wish people would stop being so boring and predictable though and run some cool sets like Lum Berry.

Manaphy was considered a one-man army against stall not so long ago. Has stall adapted efficiently to handle it, and if so how?

Lol stall will never adapt to it. You have 1 answer in specially defensive unaware clefable who gets worn down by burns and offensive pressure. Manaphy will always be the one man army against stall and will force stall to either have some offensive aspects with the team or just end up losing based on its coverage or matchup.

Suicune can pull other stuff like Scald, Toxic / Roar, Sleeptalk or a neat Life Orb set to check Toxicroak with Extrasensory, M-Sharpedo gets Taunt and Super Fang to lure in defensive builds, Crawdaunt is becoming less relevant in usage due to more flexible options, Slowbro is not a Lando-I switch in so people need to stop doing that, Slowking is underrated, can't stand regular Gyarados, Rotom-W is the definition of lucky n bad, Manaphy is mindless.

 

[SketchUp]

Slowking @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 164 SpA / 96 SpD (I use 248 / 44 / 100 / 116 for whatever reason)
Modest Nature
- Scald
- Fire Blast
- Dragon Tail
- Ice Beam / Psyshock

I use AV Slowking a lot and it is really good at the moment. The spread I use is 248 HP / 44 Def / 100 SpA / 116+ SpD (I calced a lot for this set but forgot for what pokemon this specific spread was.) 248 HP / 164 SpA / 96 SpD is the spread from the analysis so you should probably use that spread over mine
Some defensive calcs to show off the defensive power of Slowking.

96spd calcs

252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 96 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 156-185 (39.6 - 47%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Slowking: 124-147 (31.5 - 37.4%) -- 86.8% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 96 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 129-152 (32.8 - 38.6%) -- 98.9% chance to 3HKO
252+ SpA Pixilate Mega Altaria Hyper Voice vs. 248 HP / 96 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 105-124 (26.7 - 31.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
232 SpA Pixilate Mega Gardevoir Hyper Voice vs. 248 HP / 96 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 127-151 (32.3 - 38.4%) -- 97.2% chance to 3HKO

116spd calcs

252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 116+ SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 140-165 (35.6 - 41.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 248 HP / 44 Def Slowking: 118-139 (30 - 35.3%) -- 26.6% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 116+ SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 114-136 (29 - 34.6%) -- 6% chance to 3HKO
252+ SpA Pixilate Mega Altaria Hyper Voice vs. 248 HP / 116+ SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 94-112 (23.9 - 28.4%) -- 97.4% chance to 4HKO
232 SpA Pixilate Mega Gardevoir Hyper Voice vs. 248 HP / 116+ SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 114-135 (29 - 34.3%) -- 3.3% chance to 3HKO[/calcs]

 

[silver97]

Slowking @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 164 SpA / 96 SpD (I use 248 / 44 / 100 / 116 for whatever reason)
Modest Nature
- Scald
- Fire Blast
- Dragon Tail
- Ice Beam / Psyshock


It isn't! Slowking is. I use AV Slowking a lot and it is really good at the moment. The spread I use is 248 HP / 44 Def / 100 SpA / 116+ SpD (I calced a lot for this set but forgot for what pokemon this specific spread was.) 248 HP / 164 SpA / 96 SpD is the spread from the analysis so you should probably use that spread over mine
Some defensive calcs to show off the defensive power of Slowking.

96spd calcs

252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 96 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 156-185 (39.6 - 47%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Slowking: 124-147 (31.5 - 37.4%) -- 86.8% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 96 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 129-152 (32.8 - 38.6%) -- 98.9% chance to 3HKO
252+ SpA Pixilate Mega Altaria Hyper Voice vs. 248 HP / 96 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 105-124 (26.7 - 31.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
232 SpA Pixilate Mega Gardevoir Hyper Voice vs. 248 HP / 96 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 127-151 (32.3 - 38.4%) -- 97.2% chance to 3HKO

116spd calcs

252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 116+ SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 140-165 (35.6 - 41.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 248 HP / 44 Def Slowking: 118-139 (30 - 35.3%) -- 26.6% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 116+ SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 114-136 (29 - 34.6%) -- 6% chance to 3HKO
252+ SpA Pixilate Mega Altaria Hyper Voice vs. 248 HP / 116+ SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 94-112 (23.9 - 28.4%) -- 97.4% chance to 4HKO
232 SpA Pixilate Mega Gardevoir Hyper Voice vs. 248 HP / 116+ SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 114-135 (29 - 34.3%) -- 3.3% chance to 3HKO[/calcs]

when he says "the hottest set in the meta" he isn't referring to every pokemon of the meta, he is just saying that that is probably the best set for keldeo at the moment in this metagame

 

[Celticpride]

When I said hottest set in the meta, I was referring to SubCM Keldeo and SPL. Keldeo is the most used Pokemon atm (I think), and the SubCM set is most common iirc.

 

[SketchUp]

I should think about what is actually written in the post I quote before I quote it lol. Changed it

 

[MilkyWay]

Not sure if this counts since it hasnt been released yet (2/27 iirc), but what do you guys think of Sheer Forece Feraligatr and its impact on the metagame? Personally I think Gyarados and Mega Gyarados usage will decrease a little bit. Jolly LO Feraligatr is slightly more powerful than Adamant LO Gyarados and more powerful than Mega Gyarados (All three should be Jolly anyways to outrun base 135s after a Dragon Dance). Feraligatr has better coverage, lack of Life Orb recoil, priority, no stealth rock weakness, doesn't take up a Mega, and even has the option of Swords Dance to wall break in addition to being more poweful. So as an offensive Dragon Dancer I think Feraligatr is superior to both base and mega Gyarados but they are certainly better bulky Dragon Dancers thanks to intimidate and more bulk.