Other ORAS OU Type Analysis: Week 16 - Dark Type [Check post #140]

[Celticpride]

Approved by Haunter
OP stolen from the original project by TRC

Welcome to the ORAS OU Type Analysis Project! The aim of this project is to discuss and evaluate information regarding metagame trends, categorized into 18 weeks for the corresponding 18 types. After 18 weeks are over, we'll look back at the previous week of the upcoming type and compare the Pokemon of that type in terms of how they play in the metagame, what new trends have arisen, and what new sets they're commonly seen running.

Things I'd like people to discuss (and I'd like to see at least one, preferably more of these ideas featured in each post) are:

• What are the most popular Pokemon of this type seen in OU?
• What other Pokemon of this type also claim some sort of viability in OU?
• What Pokemon of this type fill a niche in OU which is sometimes worth considering in a team?
• What sorts of Pokemon does this type collectively threaten?
• What sorts of Pokemon threaten many of the members of this type?
• What sorts of metagame trends have occurred to the many Pokemon in this type?
• What Pokemon of this type are very potent offensive threats?
• What Pokemon of this type are very sturdy defensive threats?
• How do these Pokemon compare to each other in their respective roles?
• What Pokemon of this type increased in viability in the transition to the ORAS meta?
• Have any Pokemon of this type benefited from access to new move tutors, abilities, or legal move combinations?
• How strong do you feel this type is as a whole?

Note that I prefer for emphasis to be put on comparisons, not only between Pokemon but also between the stages of a metagame in which a Pokemon was used. How is it used now? What changed?

Week 16's type is the Dark Type!

(Note that discussion isn't limited to the above Pokemon)

Dark types have grown ever prominent since their inception, and this gen is no different. STAB Knock Off is a major boost to those that receive it. In addition, getting STAB on moves such as Pursuit and Sucker Punch is also beneficial. Many Dark types can also play the role of a boosting sweeper in one way or another. There's a deep roster of mons here to discuss.

 

[Celticpride]

Week 1’s type is the newest type, the Fairy type:

(Note that discussion isn't limited to the above Pokemon).

If the above questions are too broad, I’d like to see some discussion about how Fairies as a group have impacted OU. There is a large amount of evidence to suggest that Fairies were introduced to directly curb the extremely powerful Dragon type Pokemon. Are Dragons less effective due to Fairy types?

 

[michaeloche]

Despite being immune to Dragon, Fairies really haven't deterred Dragon mons that much, mainly because they have secondary STABs and/or wide movepools in general. They have, however, increased the viability of Steel and Poison moves, as well as mons that get STAB on them.

Now let me address the relevant Fairies individually:

Altaria: While rather mediocre in XY, ORAS gave Altaria a Mega Evolution that made it Dragon/Fairy, as well as Pixilate to buff Return or Hyper Voice (the latter former means it doesn't have to rely on the somewhat inaccurate Play Rough for physical Fairy STAB). It has good stats overall and a solid movepool to boot, enabling it to run physical, special, and even more defensive sets.

Azumarill: This thing made a big splash at the beginning of XY, and it's not hard to see why. With Huge Power, good bulk, and Aqua Jet to make up for its mediocre speed, it would have been at least viable with just those, but the legalization of Aqua Jet and Belly Drum together turned Azumarill from good to godly. ORAS made it even better by adding Knock Off to BellyJet sets. If cutting your own health isn't your thing, Azumarill makes a competent Assault Vest user as well. You can also slap a Choice Band on it, and pretty much nothing bar Mega Venusaur or Ferrothorn (if Azu lacks Superpower) is going to wall it.

Clefable: Don't let those average stats and its five-generation run as a generic Normal type deceive you, Clefable is a major threat. It's probably best known for its offensive Calm Mind set, but it can also run a cleric set, Stealth Rock, or Stored Power to good effect. It has two good abilities and the tools to make use of them. But please, don't use Cosmic Power. Or Cute Charm. That shit is cancer.

Diancie: This thing is interesting, to say the least. It started out as a decent SR tank, but not metagame defining. Not so in ORAS. Mega Diancie is arguably the best mixed attacker in all of Pokemon, let alone OU. It got Earth Power in ORAS, which synchronizes well with both of its STABs. It also doesn't have to run HP Fire anymore, although it still can do so to nail Ferrothorn. It is still horribly weak to Scizor, though, but it's still able to shine (or sparkle? idk).

Gardevoir: Another mon that is relevant because of added Fairy type and a mega. Gardevoir has a meaty 165 base Special Attack plus Pixilate, and decent speed to boot, making it capable of wallbreaking, stallbreaking, and revenge killing, all in one set. Why it got +20 points in Attack, instead of supplementing its mediocre physical bulk, we may never know, though. Still not something to be taken lightly.

Klefki: Boo boo keys. That is all.

No, not really. Klefki has Prankster, along with dual screens and Spikes to abuse it with. It also has good typing, but suffers from its only average bulk and no reliable recovery. Still a good support mon, especially for offensive teams, although the new megas in ORAS make its job a bit more difficult.

Sylveon: Not sure how this missed out on being in the OP. It is still OU by usage, after all. But enough ranting. Probably the cutest Eeveelution (sorry, Glaceon), and definitely the best. With Wish, Heal Bell, and the stats to use both effectively, Sylveon is a good cleric in OU. It even has Pixilate Hyper Voice so it's not so passive, hitting deceptively hard.

Togekiss: Probably best known for its paraflinching shenanigans, as well as its immunity to both of Garchomp's STAB attacks, Togekiss remains an annoying mon to face. Like Sylveon, Togekiss gets both Wish and Heal Bell, and though its typing is worse, Togekiss also gets Defog, making a support set usable as well.

Honorable mention to Mawile, whose Mega Evolution has an Attack stat so high literally nothing else can match it without boosting. Thank Arceus that thing is gone from OU.

 

[SketchUp]

I like to use fairy type as it has a very useful immunity to dragon and a resist to dark+fighting coverage. There are a few fairy types I find very interesting even though they are not OU (except Sylveon)

Slurpuff

Slurpuff @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 44 HP / 252 Atk / 212 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Play Rough
- Return / Aromatherapy
- Drain Punch

This set seems outclassed by Azumarill as a Belly Drum sweeper, but it has a few niches over Azumarill in Unburden and Drain Punch. Unburden lets Slurpuff double its speed after it used it item, pushing its speed to 466 (1 more than 252+ scarf lando-t) Unlike Azumarill it doesn't need to rely on Aqua Jet to outspeed stuff like Latios so it is much easier to stay healthy. Drain Punch is not only good for coverage but (maybe even more important) also gives Slurpuff recovery which makes revenge killing it way harder. The only relevant OU pokemon that resists Return + Play Rough + Drain Punch is Gengar, who doesn't survive a +6 Play Rough. It often finds it outclassed by Azumarill as BD sweeper, but in some teams it works way better

Togekiss

Togekiss @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Air Slash
- Roost
- Aura Sphere / Heal Bell / Dazzling Gleam

Togekiss is an amazing stallbreaker because of Nasty Plot. With Heal Bell + Roost you have a very good longetivity against stall because it is very hard to wear down with status moves. Because of Nasty Plot it outboosts CM Slowbro, CM Mega Sableye, CM Clefable and SubCM Keldeo. Air Slash helps him haxing through stuff like Heatran so Aura Sphere is not even mandatory. It is most known for its Thunder Wave + Air Slash set but that set is just boring in my opinion. Use this instead.

God Key

Klefki @ Leftovers / Light Clay
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Spikes
- Thunder Wave
-
-

Klefki is a very interesting pokemon. It really only needs two moves which are Spikes and Thunder Wave. There are many options for the coverage moves including Play Rough, Swagger + Foul Play, Toxic, Magnet Rise, Foul Play, Dazzling Gleam, Fairy Lock, Reflect + Light Screen and Rain Dance (and Heal Block in Ubers) Prankster Thunder Wave + bulk in case the target doesn't get para'd is an extremely good niche that Thundurus lacks because of his lack of bulk.

Sylveon

Sylveon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 244 HP / 252 SpA / 12 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Shadow Ball / Hidden Power [Ground]
- Baton Pass / Hidden Power [Ground] / Hidden Power [Fire]

Hitting harder than Mega Gardevoir, Sylveon isn't a pokemon you can switch into safely. Hyper Voice + Hidden Power Ground have very good coverage only resisted by Talonflame (who can't switch in with rocks) Skarmory (2HKO'd by Hyper Voice) Gengar (OHKO'd by Shadow Ball or Psyshock) With Baton Pass you can get free momentum against the many switches you force. If you are not aware of the power yet: one of the most common fairy resists is Mega Metagross, and that thing takes more than 45% from a Hyper Voice. With Shadow Ball you deal more than 80% against metagross. It sucks it gets killed by Ferrothorn and Heatran, who are both very common, but there are many effectives lures (or just use magnezone for ferrothorn) that helps Sylveon breaking through them.
Specs is not the most common set, because the most common set is the cleric set. But there is a third set that doesn't get much usage (8% on high ladder) and that is the Calm Mind Baton Pass set. Sylveon can Calm Mind on many things and stay healthy with Wish. After a few boosts it can either kill something with Hyper Voice or Baton Pass to a even more powerful pokemon like Keldeo or Latios.

 

[Lil YoshiXD]

While a very good type, there is a very limited amount of viable users which makes the reaperance of the sames fairies over and over quite common

 

[SarahPhoenix]

The dragon killer hype was mostly true. Many dragons still retain their spot on OU due to how useful they are, but the good old ''spam Outrage/Draco until their steel types are dead'' is long gone, as reflected by the fall of Cube, mence and Hydreigon. Probably the best type in the game to be honest, pokemon like Clefable and Azumarill probably would't be so useful without it.
I also wanna hug all of them, except mega garde.

 

[rob.]

Fairy-type attacks are undoubtedly the most powerful next to Flying-type attacks mainly due to the fact that Fairy-type moves are only resisted by Poison, Fire, and Steel type Pokemon. Plus note that Fire-type attacks aren't super effective against Fairy-types which means Fairy-type attacks have two obscure weaknesses to poor offensive typings, Poison and Steel. Poison and Fire types aren't known for their defensive prowess because of their common weaknesses ((Ground for Poison)) Rock, Ground, Psychic, and Water for Fire)). Most Poison and Fire type Pokemon have poor defenses that's pretty much a punch in the gut in conjunction with their common weaknesses. There's also the added benefit of the immunity to Dragon (the previous gen's most powerful typing) and the resistance to Fighting type attacks. Almost all Fairy-type Pokemon have great defensive base stats, excellent abilities, and dual typings that benefit from the resistances that the Fairy typing provides. They also have expansive movepools that makes them capable of utilizing many different viable movesets. Their deep movepools also makes it easy for them to provide utility support, offensive support, or defensive support. The Fairy typing has propelled a few Pokemon from the depths of NU and RU into the spotlight of OU. The Fairy typing came in and changed the whole dynamic of the competitive battling scene.

 

[ArchPhantom]

I will respond to the following questions from the OP:

• What Pokemon of this type increased in viability in the transition to the ORAS meta?
• What Pokemon of this type are very sturdy defensive threats?
• What Pokemon of this type are very potent offensive threats?

Azumarill's viability has greatly increased now being able to use Knock Off + Aqua Jet with Belly Drum, checking the extremely popular Mega Sableye, the new Mega Diancie, as well as OU staples like Keldeo, the Latis, Ttar, and Heatran. Mega Venusaur falling in usage helped with Azu's viability increase, as well as the overall scarcity of grass types that can actually wall Azu (e.g, Amoonguss, though +6 knock off ohko's, lol). It's just a really solid mon and win-con that never disappoints.

Sturdy defensive threats: Clefable and Mega Altaria.

• Clefable is in the top 5, imo, of the best OU mons. It provides its team with so much at very little to no cost, and it checks a long list of things in OU. In addition, Clef is super versatile and can be customized for its team: SR Clef, CM Clef, Cleric Clef, Healing Wish, etc. Also, it's defensive but not passive, so it easily fits into many teams without taking away from them.

• Mega Altaria is in the exact same boat as Clef. It's versatile, it's bulky and its typing amplifies the bulkiness, it has offensive presence, and it's all around spectacular defensively.

Potent offensive threats: Mega Gardevoir, Azumarill, and Mega Altaria.

• There really isn't much for Mega Garde in the meta: it can 6-0 stall potentially, kill something every time it gets a switch in on offense, and flatten balance. All it needs is three moves and the final one helps Garde in the maiming department; Taunt for Stall, CM for Balance; Offense is rekt regardless. Very solid mon.

• Azumarill is in a similar boat to M-Garde: there isn't much for Azu in the meta. It has options in Band/Belly Drum/AV to dent almost any team. Moreover, Azu is splashable and quite consistent.

• Mega Altaria is just amazing. It is extremely versatile, bulky yet offensive, has the tools it needs to get past its checks and 'counters'. It has many sets such as Agility three attacks, DD three attacks, DD Heal Bell, Three attacks roost, etc, and every one of them is viable and to be watched out for. In a Mega Altaria team, Mega Altaria is the team.

 

[DoABarrelRoll]

The dragon killer hype was mostly true. Many dragons still retain their spot on OU due to how useful they are, but the good old ''spam Outrage/Draco until their steel types are dead'' is long gone, as reflected by the fall of Cube, mence and Hydreigon. Probably the best type in the game to be honest, pokemon like Clefable and Azumarill probably would't be so useful without it.
I also wanna hug all of them, except mega garde.

Salamence fell because people finally realised that it's completely outclassed at almost anything it does, especially with the arrival of Zard X. Fairies bar Azu aren't really a problem for it since DD + Iron Tail can get past all of them. Cube can wreck fairy-types with LO Iron Head if it feels like it, while Azu is OHKOed by Fusion Bolt. Hydreigon is really the only one who was truly affected imo.

Week 1’s type is the newest type, the Fairy type:

(Note that discussion isn't limited to the above Pokemon).

If the above questions are too broad, I’d like to see some discussion about how Fairies as a group have impacted OU. There is a large amount of evidence to suggest that Fairies were introduced to directly curb the extremely powerful Dragon type Pokemon. Are Dragons less effective due to Fairy types?

+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Mold Breaker Haxorus Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 160 Def Clefable: 437-515 (110.9 - 130.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Mold Breaker Haxorus Poison Jab vs. 228 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 494-582 (124.1 - 146.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Mold Breaker Haxorus Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Mega Altaria: 445-525 (125.7 - 148.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Mold Breaker Haxorus Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Diancie: 471-556 (194.6 - 229.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Mold Breaker Haxorus Poison Jab vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Togekiss: 426-504 (114.2 - 135.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Mold Breaker Haxorus Poison Jab vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Mega Gardevoir: 562-663 (202.8 - 239.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Mold Breaker Haxorus Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Klefki: 393-463 (123.5 - 145.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

I don't think some dragons are less effective than before just because of Fairy-types, but rather because of the arrival of Zard X and Mega Altaria (admiteddly part Fairy), as well as Lati@s gaining Defog. This way they outclass stuff such as Salamence and Haxorus in almost anything they can do. The speed creep is another reason. 100 speed just isn't what it used to be.

 

[SarahPhoenix]

Salamence fell because people finally realised that it's completely outclassed at almost anything it does, especially with the arrival of Zard X. Fairies bar Azu aren't really a problem for it since DD + Iron Tail can get past all of them. Cube can wreck fairy-types with LO Iron Head if it feels like it, while Azu is OHKOed by Fusion Bolt. Hydreigon is really the only one who was truly affected imo.

No one would deny that salamence or any other dragon can destroy fairies with the proper coverage move after a boost. The fact is fairies destroy the viability of it's other sets such as Mixmence or Scarfmoxiemence, as they do for any other dragon who is reliant on Draco Meteor/Outrage spam. This makes many purely offensive dragons way more predictable and manageable.
Dragons with utility such as Garchomp and Lati@s will of course stay relevant and useful,and of course Cube's 170/120 offenses while holding an item will always punch holes in teams.

 

[adman2]

The dragon killer hype was mostly true. Many dragons still retain their spot on OU due to how useful they are, but the good old ''spam Outrage/Draco until their steel types are dead'' is long gone, as reflected by the fall of Cube, mence and Hydreigon. Probably the best type in the game to be honest, pokemon like Clefable and Azumarill probably would't be so useful without it.
I also wanna hug all of them, except mega garde.

Based on what experience I have with 6th gen, this is true. Fairies do not necessarily have to take the Dragons on in a 1-on-1 fight to be effective. If nothing else, they're a good deterrent and force the Dragons to use either weaker moves than Outrage or good prediction. I use Latias frequently on my new team, and I'm always concerned about using Draco Meteor because it means a free switch in for Togekiss, Klefki, or Azumarril. There's a reason "birdspam" has replaced the old "double dragon", and even then the Flying types have to watch out for a lot more things than the dragons did. Stealth Rock, recoil damage, greater amount of weaknesses, etc.

In 4th gen in particular Dragon was so overpowered that a viable strategy at the time was called "triple Dragon, triple Steel". Here's a link to an old RMT thread about that playstyle if you're interested.

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/titanic-terror.59306/

 

[Fourth Inversion]

One less obvious factor that makes some Fairy types stronger than their average BST's would indicate, is Moonblast. Its 100% accuracy and 95 base power sits slightly above the 100% accurate 80-90 base power moves available to other types, but more importantly, the secondary effect's 30% chance of a SpA drop makes special attackers slightly unreliable checks to Clefable. [Compare this to Psychic/Flamethrower/Thunderbolt/Ice Beam, where the secondary effect only has a 10% chance of occurring. Granted, Scald is even more disproportionately powerful, but Moonblast is undeniably better than the average STAB move, just as the Fairy typing is amazing both offensively and defensively. It's also interesting that Gamefreak did this, whilst simultaneously decreasing the power of other special attacks, perhaps to encourage people to use the new type?]. As an example, Mega Gardevoir can 2HKO Clefable, but if it switches into Clefable's Moonblast and gets inflicted with a SpA drop, then Hyper Voice now only 3HKOes, giving Clefable a good chance of coming out on top in the matchup.

 

[SketchUp]

First post was 1 week ago. Can we already start with a new type? I beg you Celticpride

 

[Celticpride]

Friendly reminder that this is the OU sub-forum, and as such discussion should center around mons that are viable in OU (should be listed in the viability rankings). Anyways, onto week 2!

Week 2's type is Fire!

(Note that discussion isn't limited to the above Pokemon)

Alright, the usual questions in the OP apply. As far as more specific talking points:

• Mega Houndoom has a reputation for being underrated. Is it as effective as some make it out to be?
• Charizard-X seems to have fallen from grace. What are it's best sets right now?
  
• What are Victini's best sets in the current meta?
• Is Mega Camerupt useful outside of Trick Room?
• Is Volcarona reemerging in the OU metagame?
• What are Rotom-H's niches over Rotom-W?
• Edit: a few people have mentioned this so, how about that Reckless Emboar?

Feel free to talk about any trends or new sets among OU viable Fire types as well. Talk about as much or as little as you like. Happy discussing!

Also, I'm looking for a banner if anyone has the skills and time. PM me if you're interested.

 

[SketchUp]

• Mega Houndoom has a reputation for being underrated. Is it as effective as some make it out to be?

It is a great pokemon. Taunt and WoW are both moves that does great work as a filler because you really don't need more than NP + Dual STAB. It's a decent stallbreaker because it wins against Mega Sableye but it struggles against Chansey which is a huge problem for stall. The reason it can't really kill stall if Chansey (and other stuff like Unaware Clef) are around makes me think Will-O-Wisp is the better filler move.

• Charizard-X seems to have fallen from grace. What are it's best sets right now?

Bulky Wisp isn't very good at the moment in my opinion. The best set is fast DD (Jolly DD) because Scarf Landorus-T is everywhere. It is still a threat you need to prepare for because it can easily sweep teams if stuff like Azumarill and Slowbro are weakened.

• What are Victini's best sets in the current meta?

I don't really know. Scarf, SubPuP and Stallbreaker are all very effective. Especially Scarf and Stallbreaker are very nice in the current meta as the former set is one of the few Mega Metagross counters (if it runs EQ and rocks are up you might lose) Stallbreaker is very good as it can 2HKO Mega Sableye after rocks, leaving the stall team open to Taunt + Wisp.

• Is Mega Camerupt useful outside of Trick Room?

In my opinion it isn't

• Is Volcarona reemerging in the OU metagame?

I feel like it does pretty well in the current metagame. Bulky Quiver is not that great but offensive quiver is very nice. I like using Passho Berry because you can set up a quiver on Keldeo and kill it with a +1 Giga Drain. Nothing really likes a +1 Fire Blast coming off a 135 SpA stat.

• What are Rotom-H's niches over Rotom-W?

Never used this on a serious team in OU but it beats Mega Altaria, Mega Pinsir and Stallbreaker Talonflame which is a good thing to have on stall

Infernape is a pokemon you didn't mention but in the past few weeks I saw 2 interesting sets I've never seen before

Infernape @ Focus Sash
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Endeavor
- Fire Blast
- Vacuum Wave / Taunt

Infernape @ Leftovers
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 212 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def / 40 Spe
Impish Nature
- Close Combat
- Will-O-Wisp
- Slack Off
- Taunt

Sash lead works just like Mamoswine with an offensive move + endeavor + priority but Infernape has the niche that it stop leads like Ferrothorn which is pretty cool
Taunt Wisp is a very annoying combination to face. Infernape can Slack Off, which Victini can't and that is pretty cool. The set beats Bisharp without any problems which is very nice.

 

[Red King]

Well man that was sooo productive with the fairy types. Also i'd like to point out that judging from the pink font, avatar and the post count on that account that it's a troll. either way it's obvious that person is derailing chat and preventing any real progress to be made. AM, i'm not entirely sure whether it's correct conduct to tag you on this, but uh, it's pretty clear this thread is being shitted up and deliberately prevented from getting anything done.

On to Fire types
Charizard X is somewhat suffering from a landorus t meta. and by that i mean 30% usage. :C underated tho, and lando t is easy to wear down especially when paired with diggy. it's quite bulky and is capable of setting up on cm sableye, one of the metagame defining threats. still extremely powerful and dangerous.

Charizard Y
Doesn't know the meaning of a resist. it's coverage and power make it a formidable wallbreaker with limited switchins and functions great with pursuit support as well as eating rain for breakfast with high power solar beams and drought. Very good and potent threat.

Houndoom
Is actually pretty cool, it's gains outway its losses this gen, but it still suffers. it's speed tier is great, and can take on pokemon like metagross, and has an easier time setting up on sableye without being killed if it has foul play. however mega lopunny is another wall (not walled) that prevents it's OU usage from raising, as it can come in and knock it out anytime. After some chip and a nasty plot it can knock down Keldeo, especially with sludge wave. sludge wave helps against azu but banded aqua jet is a problem. destiny bond can also force trades, especially with it's high speed. lop still a big problem.

Victini
can take on Mega Metagross, and is still an insane wallbreaker. great for wearing down teams who rely on lando t. coverage still rocks, and it's movepool is so diverse new sets pop up all the time, from glaciate to subpup.

Mega Cam has limited use outside of TR, it can take on electric types like thundy or mane, and is quite capable of winning lots of 1v1s. really strong, but defensive typing and speed still hinder it.

Rotom H can absorb will o wisp. thats it. it's weaker to SR which isn't great because it's supposed to be a pivot. rotom w is just more capable, taking on azu and more, and is just more useful. you're doing yourself no favors using this pokemon in OU imo.

I don't feel like i know enough about volc in ORAS.

 

[bludz]

Been using Charizard X and the moveset I've been liking is DD/Roost/Flare Blitz/Dragon Claw. Roost helps with FB recoil and SR. Heatran does wall it with that moveset but if it is lacking Earth Power, Zard X can just set up in its face. This thing's Flare Blitz is extremely strong and I often use it before DDing just to soften some stuff up. Still an exceptional Mega Evolution IMO but does not enjoy Mega Altaria much. EDIT: Jolly Max

I spoke briefly about this in the viability rankings thread but I think Rotom-H is best used offensively. Despite having a decent defensive typing, the weakness to SR and lack of reliable recovery make it hard to continue switching into things. Also it shares typing with its 2 main status infliction moves (Will-O-Wisp and Thunder Wave) which is counter productive because electric and fire types already wall it (unlike Rotom-W who can Hydro Pump fire types). Holding a Choice Scarf with Timid nature makes it faster than max speed Jolly Gyarados at +1, so it checks a lot of the fast pokemon that run around even including water types like Keldeo that would normally scare it away. Overheat with max SpA investment is a guaranteed OHKO on Metagross as well. Volt Switch is the main move to use IMO, since stuff like Heatran walls you so spamming Overheat is a bad idea. Ultimately it's not a great pokemon in the OU metagame but if you want to try it I'd definitely suggest using it offensively.

Zard Y is underused IMO, although it's not that fast and is 4x weak to SR almost nothing can take a hit from it. Many teams are just not prepared, reminds me of Gardevoir but honestly harder to switch into.

Also speaking of Infernape, has anyone used an all out attacker set with LO? It seems like it could actually be pretty decent, although 110 being the new speed tier to beat hurts it. Might be better against less offensively oriented teams

Lastly I want to touch on Fire gaining a new resistance in Fairy. This makes Heatran a mega fairy wall, and makes SpDef Talonflame a serious beast against stall and balance teams that love to run Clefable. Fire was never that great of a defensive type but this buff has made bulky fire types more usable, going against the notion that fire is more of an offensive type.

 

[heritage]

I just wanted to point out how absolutely anti-meta Houndoom is right now. Houndoom is an awesome check to common Pokémon like Mega Scizor, Metagross, Mega Sableye and even Chansey to an extent, since it can easily Taunt and freely set up. In my experience with Houndoom, it finds plenty of opportunities to come in and Nasty Plot. Fire Blast is extremely destructive after a boost. It has great dual STABs and a really good Speed tier of 115, as well as Flash Fire before Mega Evolving. It absolutely IS how good some people make it out to be, and will not disappoint if you choose to use it, and if you use it properly.

I'm going to expand on this in a little bit, I swear.

 

[Kurona]

Dammit I completely forgot about this thread; was gonna talk about sylveon and scizor q-q

Anyhow, I am kind of interested in Volcarona. Happy as I am to see it actually be good again, I'm curious as to what exactly changed in ORAS to bump it from C- all the way to B-.

 

[ArchPhantom]

Adding on to what Recreant said, MegaDoom also checks Mega Sableye, a very defining force in the meta, as well as the powerful power ranger Bisharp. It's an overall cool mon that can thrive in the current meta, infested with super computers and diamonds.

Charizard-X seems to have fallen from grace. What are it's best sets right now?

Imo, one of its best sets is SD DD/Tailwind. It gives it better match up vs Stall while letting it still bring offense to their knees.

Is Volcarona reemerging in the OU metagame?

In baby steps, yes. Being able to set up on M-Sable and fairies alike and beat every mega bar zards afaik, Volcarona is making a slow and steady comeback to OU. At least I hope it does; We need more insects in the tier.

Heatran is as good as ever, if not the best fire type in OU.

 

[Celticpride]

Anyhow, Celticpride ; was unsure from the OP and new type analysis post but are we good to post Pokémon that the type in general has problems with, and what pairs well with Pokémon of this specific type?

Use your judgement obviously, but pairs and cores are fine. I wouldn't make a standalone post about pokemon that give this type trouble because I'd prefer to focus on Pokemon of the type of the week, but lumping it in with other things is fine (ex. "if you need a Fire type and are already weak to X, Y gives the positives a Fire type does while not being weak to X" is the direction I would prefer).

 

[SparksBlade]

Just came by this thread, hi all :)
I guess we'll see red walls of post now, better than pink imo.(no rude jk)
gonna do quick answers for now

Mega Houndoom has a reputation for being underrated. Is it as effective as some make it out to be?

I think the biggest thing it has is Speed and Special Attack, combined with a nice STAB combination, resisted by Mega Altaria, Azumarill, Keldeo, Terrak, TTar, Crawdaunt and Mega Gyarados i believe(just did a quick look). It has Nasty Plot, Sucker Punch, Destiny Bond, and WoW to produce a little variety in the possibilities of what set it might be. It also has ways to get around some of its checks, e.g.
252 SpA Solar Power Mega Houndoom Solar Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo in Sun: 450-530 (139.3 - 164%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Solar Power Mega Houndoom Solar Beam vs. 240 HP / 16 SpD Assault Vest Azumarill in Sun: 326-384 (81.2 - 95.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Mega Houndoom Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Altaria: 200-236 (56.4 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO-->though i guess a bad choice otherwise
It does look threatening on paper, so idk why it's underrated. Also Recreant now has it as her avy(for idk how long) so that's extra points i guess :]

Charizard-X seems to have fallen from grace. What are it's best sets right now?

I find bulky DD a really good set to play with, its sweeping potential is still fantastic, imo arrival of Mega Altaria is what hurt it the most.

What are Victini's best sets in the current meta?

idk much about Victini, rarely see it on my part of the ladder :/ I guess Scarf is still good.

Is Mega Camerupt useful outside of Trick Room?

Outside of TR it is kind of difficult to abuse its power, and its bulk is let down by its typing and no recovery.

Is Volcarona reemerging in the OU metagame?

been time since i saw one, rocks really slay it half, and there are plenty Pursuit trappers to prevent removal of hazards. I also find it quite prone to being revenge killed, cos its physical bulk is really bad.

What are Rotom-H's niches over Rotom-W?

Resisting the BoltBeam combo i guess. Idk man no reliable recovery+weak to rocks really make its case weak against Rotom-W. Only if WoW had perfect accuracy when used by fire types.

 

[Sheers Man]

I actually feel another Pokemon to discuss in addition to the ones above could be Emboar. A lot of people don't seem to be a fan of this thing in OU, but a lot also
have hyped it up quite a bit with sets like Scarf and SubPunch. I haven't actually used it yet myself though so I can't speak much of it.

I don't have too much experience with some of the mons discussed here but I'll pitch in on some I can.

Mega Camerupt, while I feel it's certainly the most useful in TR certainly has some use without it. It's fairly bulky and its unique typing makes it match up very well against most Electric types like Mega Manectric, Thundurus-I/T, and Raikou.

252 SpA Choice Specs Raikou Shadow Ball vs. 168 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 115-136 (35.6 - 42.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Not the best, but it can at least switch in in Raikou fairly safely. Note that I don't actually know if 168 HP is standard on Mega Camerupt at this time, I just took this off of the analysis. Other than that I don't think Mega Camerupt has too many uses outside of TR and I honestly don't think it's that effective in OU in general.

Volcarona has always in 6th gen been sort of a win condition Pokemon (unlike in 5th where you kill Heatran, use QD and win) or at least one that is high maintenance, high reward. I feel like in XY there were so many checks for it everywhere (Azumarill, Char-X, Keldeo, Heatran, though it's not like things like Heatran are exactly rare now either) it was too difficult to use to really be worth it. Honestly this hasn't changed, but Volcarona does feel a lot more effective now than it did back in XY. A lot of folks have been experimenting with offensive sets with items like Lum or Passho berries to what has seemed to be a good amount of success. I really don't think bulky QD sets are very good right now, however. I honestly can't even say what has made Volcarona seem so much more effective in these days, it may have just been trying to find a set to suit the current trends in the meta. ArchPhantom made a good point about it being able to set up on Mega Sableye.

I can't say too much about Mega Houndoom but it certainly seems like an underrated threat right now. 115 Speed is an awesome tier to be in and unique typing and great offensive STABs make it match up very well against some of the biggest threats in the game right now like Bisharp and even Mega Metagross.

I don't feel like there's much I need to say about Heatran or Talonflame right now. Both are still awesome and everywhere. I haven't seen stuff like Victini or Rotom-H in quite some time, honestly.

 

[michaeloche]

No colored text, I promise.

I'm gonna look at one mon up there that nobody's talked about yet: Entei. This gen, Entei got a physical Fire STAB that isn't event locked and doesn't make it kill itself, and that is Sacred Fire. It has a 50% chance to burn; that alone gives Entei a niche. It also has Extreme Speed to pick off faster stuff and can hit before Talonflame and the like due to having +2 priority. Of course, this forces Entei to run Adamant, hindering its speed somewhat, but that's not a huge issue, as it just makes it more powerful. In a way, Entei is basically Arcanine with Sacred Fire but a worse ability.

Speaking of Arcanine, my personal favorite mon got a recent promotion to the viability rankings (for some reason). In my opinion, Arcanine's main niche is not in its offensive set (which is outclassed even in UU by stuff like Darmanitan and the aforementioned Entei), but in its more defensive set. Arcanine has access to Intimidate, Morning Sun, and a respectable stat distribution allowing it to both dish out hits and take them. It's not the best thing out there, as its D ranking should indicate, but it has enough of a niche to get some use.

 

[Deoxys Prime]

Fire type is a very solid type at the moment. Plenty of representatives in OU that all play a variety of roles.

Offense:
Fire has always been an excellent offensive type for hitting Steel, Grass, Bug, and Ice types. Steel is a fairly common defensive type in the current metagame and Fire does a respectable job of dispatching it. Grass and Bug aren't quite as prevalent but are certainly worth covering. The only Ice types I ever see in OU are Kyurem-B and Cloyster and Fire isn't really relevant for hitting those. Most users of STAB Fire type attacks have significant enough attacking stats such that even neutral hits are fairly potent.

Key Players

This guy's been going strong since XY. Even the bread and butter set still manages to be a threat no matter how well anticipated it is. It has diverse enough stats and a diverse enough movepool to make it difficult to prepare for properly. Nuclear damage coming from boosted STAB hits and respectable damage from its small selection of coverage hits. The ability to run a defensive set is there too. MZardX has fair bulk at 78/111/85 considering its access to Will-o-Wisp and Roost. Missed prediction and very good typing make it a monstrous threat all of the time.

Always in the shadow of MZardX, MZardY is often underprepared for by teams. Stealth Rock is one way to prevent it from being a threat; however, a good team containing MZardY will definitely run reliable hazard removal. Its damage is absolutely insane. Resisted hits do tons of damage and it has coverage to handle many things that would otherwise give it trouble. The huge Rock weakness is its biggest drawback but it manages to remain one of the tier's best wallbreakers. Most walls struggle to take hits from it and is generally best dealt with by a combination of Stealth Rock and smart plays.

252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey in Sun: 160-190 (24.9 - 29.5%) -- 100% chance to 4HKO
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 220+ SpD Heatran: 216-256 (56.1 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Mega Charizard Y Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 284-336 (73.7 - 87.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Smogonbird has been with us since the beginning of the generation and looks like it will stay with us until the end of it. It can fulfill so many roles. As much as people want to scream about how awesome it is just to fire priority Brave Birds at everything - it is so much more. It can run utility in Taunt, Will-o-Wisp, Tailwind, and Roost. It can set-up and wallbreak using Swords Dance or Bulk Up. Its bread and butter STAB combo of Brave Bird + Flare Blitz hits a ton of things for considerable damage. It can fit on so many teams. The only thing holding it back is the presence of Stealth Rock. If Stealth Rock were more uncommon or a little weaker I think Talonflame would be a much more significant threat, considering it is already very common as is.

Honorable mentions:
Mega Houndoom - As has been said by a few users, it is a very good anti-meta and anti-Meta pick. The lovely 115 Speed tier allows it to outpace Mega Metagross and the Lati twins which are both incredibly common threats right now. Access to Taunt, Nasty Plot, and a respectable base Special Attack stat make it a good pick to stallbreak as well.
Volcarona - One of my personal favorites. Volcarona is deceptively bulky, hugely powerful, but has a high opportunity cost. The weakness to Stealth Rock and frequent usage of Azumarill make it a little harder to use these days. Still, it is a terrifying boosting threat with great coverage and damage.

Defense:
Fire's newfound resistance to Fairy and the popularity of Sylveon, Clefable, and Gardevoir make Fire useful defensively. Fire's immunity to burn and fair pool of resistances put it in a better place defensively than it ever has been in the past.

Key Players

Heatran has been one of the most common Pokemon this generation. Fire/Steel is one of the best type combinations for handling common threats right now. The outright immunity to Fire with Flash Fire is also incredibly useful. It is primarily seen in its defensive roles but it is also a fantastic user of Choice Scarf. Its 3 favorite STAB choices all do a different job too. Magma Storm does respectable damage while trapping the foe, Lava Plume has a huge burn chance, and Fire Blast is a fantastic nuke. It can also take hits from Fairies and hit back hard if it elects to run Flash Cannon as a secondary STAB. It has great offensive options and great utility options. It can be fit onto almost any team easily.

Often outshined by its brother Rotom-W, Rotom-H remains a choice for teams that are looking for both a check to birdspam and access to a powerful Fire type attack. Rotom-H is basically Rotom-W because it can run all of the same sets while playing almost the exact same role. The defensive typing is just a little weaker but many people find that Overheat suits their needs better than Hydro Pump and are willing to make the trade. Still, Rotom-H is worth noting because it does have a sparse, rather than nonexistent, userbase in OU.

Honorable mentions:
Arcanine - Interestingly enough, Arcanine has an excellent defensive set. 90/80/80 bulk seems mediocre, but combined with reliable recovery, Intimidate, and Will-o-Wisp it manages to hold a relevant niche as a defensive Fire type, especially against physical opponents. Defensive Landorus-T often outshines that role because it does the same job off of a slightly better 89/90/80 bulk. In addition, Lando-T acts as a fantastic pivot with access to slow U-turn while also being able to set Stealth Rock. Still, Arcanine has better longevity and can provide crippling status for your team that Lando-T can't.

Beating Fire Types:
Fire is in a better state than ever before; however, it still has a plethora of weaknesses. Stealth Rock wears down Fire types quickly while both types of the Edgequake combo hit super effectively. Most Fire types can be walled reliably. The most challenging to wall probably being MZardY. Heatran, Rotom-W, Tyranitar, Slowbro, and a few others can notably handle most Fire type attackers. Revenge killing versus Fire types is also easily possible with common picks like Keldeo, Azumarill, and both types of Landorus. Dugtrio is notable for easily trapping and killing Fire types as well, especially Heatran.

Supporting Fire Types:
With the noted weakness to Stealth Rock, hazard control is very useful. Good partners for hazard control include Starmie, Skarmory (which is useful for completely walling Lando-T,) and Excadrill (who fits better on an offensively themed team than Skarmory.) Most of the best defensive switch-ins versus Fire types are weak to either Ground or Grass type attacks too. Dugtrio (as mentioned above) can trap and reliably remove Heatran if that's what ails you. Breloom has no problem dispatching Rotom-W, deals with Slowbro fairly handily, and provides useful Spore support. Ferrothorn can survive almost any hit intended to kill your Fire types too - it has useful resistances that make it a good partner; in addition, if you choose to run Power Whip you can also surprise some Water types expecting Gyro Ball instead.