Other ORAS OU Viability Ranking Thread - Check post #2359

[SaberSeven]

So mega slowbro is weak to a move with a lower base power than nigh slash, that's not a big deal. Most pokemon will hit it harder with a neutral STAB attack than with a super effective knock-off.

Yeah. Probably could have stated this a bit better. Sorry.

 

[p2]

I'd like to nominate Mega Ampharos to B-

+Nothing wants to switch into attacks coming off base 165 Spa, except for Chansey
+Slow Volt Switches allow for safe switches
+Mold Breaker bypasses abilities like Shell Armor, Magic Bounce, Unaware, Lightning Rod and Sturdy
+Solid 95/105/110 bulk
+Can run an Agility set to bypass speed issues, which can outspeed Greninja by 1 point if Modest 252 Spe after an Agility

-No reliable recovery - needs to run Rest or have Wish support for longevity
-45 speed leaves it weak to threats, especially bulky fairies
-Uses a Mega slot and has to deal with really tough competition for the slot
-Struggles against Rain and Sand teams
-Special movepool isn't great - has to rely on Focus Miss and Hidden Power in some cases

I find this is quite effective against Stall right now (well on paper it sounds really good) as it can deal with Unboosted Sableye, Skarmory, Heatran, Mega Altaria (if HP Ice), Clefable, Slowbro, Ferrothorn, Gliscor, Hippowdon, Amoonguss, Alomomola, Phys Def Quagsire, Defensive Landorus-T, Rotom-W and there are only a small number of threats it struggles with.


It's also quite good against Offense aswell, since barely anything can switch in

• Mega Metagross can't switch in since it's 2HKOd by Thunderbolt and cannot OHKO back
• Landorus-T doesn't want to take an HP Ice and Defensive sets can't switch in 4 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 200 HP / 0 Def Mega Ampharos: 288-338 (77.6 - 91.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
• Lati@s don't want to take a Dragon Pulse
• Thundurus can only 3HKO with HP Ice or Focus Blast 252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Hidden Power Ice vs. 200 HP / 0 SpD Mega Ampharos: 153-182 (41.2 - 49%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
• AV Azumarill can be speed crept and dropping bulk increases the chance of Ampharos OHKO'ing
• Gyarados, Slowbro, Bisharp, Mega Scizor, Keldeo, Talonflame, Mega Pinsir, Gengar, Clefable and Manaphy all lose to Thunderbolt
• Excadrill, Heatran, TTar, Mega Lopunny all lose to Focus Blast
• Gliscor loses to HP Ice
• Garchomp struggles to OHKO 252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 200 HP / 0 Def Mega Ampharos: 314-372 (84.6 - 100.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

tl;dr I find Mega Ampharos is really underrated despite being pretty slow and taking up a Mega Slot and imo, it is not on the same level as any of the other C+ ranks and it deserves a raise to B-

Also, I find that Mega Ampharos is simply better than Mega Camerupt for multiple reasons, if anything it should be on an a higher ranking.

I just wanted to bring this up now that we are actually discussing B and C ranks now

 

[TURBODERP]

Gonna be ballsy and nominate Dragalge for B- (or at least C+). I think it's quite possible to make a case for that.

I'm not even talking about the Specs set, which is probably C+ on its own. People seem to think that's the only viable set for Dragalge to run, which is certainly untrue. The ability to run Toxic Plate/Draco Plate (depending on the situation/team need) lets you almost bluff a Specs set, which is incredibly useful when you have fairly powerful STAB (plus, if you run Scald, which is fairly standard on even defensive Dragalge sets, you can surprise something with Draco Meteor/Sludge Wave on the switch in, which is very nice). Even with Draco Plate/Toxic Plate, Draco Meteor still utterly annihilates most things, even some that resist (Bisharp), while Toxic Plate still does tons of damage to fairies (you can reliably come in on Clefable at +1 and beat it even with lowest damage rolls).

Defensive sets with Dragon Tail/Sub actually work too because Poison/Dragon with some SpDef/HP investment (Calm, 248HP, 100 SpDef) makes your subs not-broken by things like Rotom-W Volt Switch, Talonflame/Diggersby/Scizor U-turn, and others, so you can up hazards damage with Dragon Tail (Skarmory is a great partner, only shared non-resist is Ice) or nail more stuff on the switch in with an Adaptability-boosted attack (which still hurt even with only 156 SpA investment). Dragon/Poison is just a nifty typing-you can also run a 100% accurate Toxic if you want, and the ability to absorb Toxic Spikes I guess is nice although nobody seems to run those. Even with Defensive sets, you still wreck Clefable/Azumarill (not really Togekiss unless you predict it switching in, because ParaFlinch Hax), who can only hit you for neutral damage at best.

Also, Dragalge's base speed (44), while low, is actually enough to invest in to beat stuff like uninvested Tyranitar and the like-but still low enough that you don't NEED max speed investment, and can instead shove that into bulk, making Dragalge actually fairly bulky (relatively speaking, even Specs builds are bulkier than Latios). Plus, you are Pursuit/U-Turn resistant, which is nice compared to the Lati twins (remember in comparison, Specs Dragalge hits not only harder than Specs Latios-Specs Dragalge hits 8% harder than Timid Life Orb Mega Rayquaza). So while you're not gonna be replacing Latios/Latias with Dragalge, it isn't completely 100% outclassed by them. They all can wall-break, but have different "other" niches (Defoggers/RKers for the Latis, defensive utility for Latias and Dragalge, with Dragalge being arguably better due to bulk investment and a great typing).

Dragalge does suffer though from a pretty low HP stat (base 65 isn't great even fully invested) and a very common weakness in ground, as Earthquake is friggin' everywhere. Ice and Psychic aren't the best weaknesses to have either. A decent-ish base defense of 95 is again not that great simply because base 65 health means even maxing out your defense (mostly not advisable, unless you can hit some benchmarks with uninvested EQ from some things, but unlikely to be worth the SpDef/SpA compromise), so strong neutral attacks will make you sad. In addition, you've got no reliable recovery other than Black Sludge (used on defensive sets), and since you're pretty darn slow, you'll probably take a good hit coming in (assuming you're not volt-turned in, which is honestly one of the best ways to bring in Dragalge), wearing you down pretty fast.

All in all, I think Dragalge's ability to murderize most of the relevant OU fairies while being able to OHKO/do 75%+ to most of OU, while being pretty darn good from a defensive standpoint, make it at least viable for C+. It's basically a more offensive version of Goodra (at least the offensive sets) that benefits from an arguably-more-useful-in-this-meta defensive typing. I'd argue that it's at least equal to those pokes in terms of defensive utility, but the sheer power Dragalge can offer makes me want to be brave and nominate to B- simply because Specs/Plates Dragalge can OHKO most of the A/B/C tiers (quite a few after rocks-but even stuff like standard Bisharp is OHKO'd by Specs/Draco Plate Draco) with either Draco Meteor or Sludge Wave, which is kinda insane and not seen by a lot of the stuff in C+.

 

[henry]

One thing i forgot, McMeghan is currently inactive so he will be temporarily replaced by Henry , welcome to the team!

^^ thank you Alex. I'll be sure to accurately represent the bad player's opinions

 

[Kurona]

I must agree with rising Sylveon to B; with the rise of stall and it's new poster boy Mega Sableye, Specs Sylveon is handily able to completely obliterate said poster boy along with other important 'mon like Mega/Base Slowbro, which is especially good to pave the way for many new Megas such as Gallade to sweep. However, it of course has the problems of low speed, one-dimensionalism and it's other sets being generally outclassed, hence why I don't think it should rise any higher than B for now.

 

[Umirozen]

Togekiss - stay in B- or move up in B

Its nasty set is versatile. All you need is Nasty plot, Airslash and Roost. the 4th move slot can depend on what you want togekiss to be, baton passer, stall breaker (aurasphere/fireblast or even dazzling gleam), paraflinch(thunderwave) or a cleric (healbell). It does face some competition woth some pokes like, Clefable but Kiss has more raw power and neutral coverage(AirSlash) to be a stall breaker; and MGarde which hits harder but takes up a mega slot and with bad defensive base stats. But what makes Togekiss somewhat better to use between Mgarde and clef is its Physically Defensive nastyPass set, it's both a stall breaker as well as support. it can pass multiple times due to its bulk. I even let it hold weakness policy predicting bullet punches from scizors or volt switches from Rotom-wash and pass it off to Fast Mixed attackers like MSceptile and Greninja. With that I think Togekiss can move up in B (because of its nasty pass set) or just stay in B- (since it still faces competition with Mgarde or Clef) but no lower than B-.

Klefki - B+ or A-

Supporting thisnasty poke to move up, most of the pokes that reside in OU are physically offensive and Klefki loves it. TWave+Foulplay is ANNOYING as hell.

 

[Celticpride]

B- ---> B: Even though the initial Weavile hype has died down and it's not the requirement it was in the Mence meta, it's still better than it was in XY. A faster meta is better for it and it's speed tier sits above some important threats like Mega Metagross, Lati@s, and Greninja. Icicle Crash+Knock Off is now legal as well, and the extra power over Ice Punch is nice. STAB Knock Off+STAB Ice is really anti-meta right now. The decline in Azu and Keldeo also benefits it, as they were two of it's biggest checks.

C+ ---> B-: Very good right now. Regenerator makes it an absolute pain to take down, and it's got similar defensive stats to Chesnaught. It also has a ton of different support moves like Knock Off and Sleep Powder. It can even carry Rock Slide to hit Talonflame and other Flying types on the switch. It can also check a ton of threats, and can shut down Landorus-T and Mega Lopunny in addition to a number of other things.

B- ---> B: Another defensive Pokemon that is really good right now. The raw bulk is just great, and it's Psychic typing also helps it a ton. It checks a ton of new Megas, beats Scarf Lando-T, can provide Screens support, and can check Greninja. It covers a lot of general threats in one slot, and as such I think a rise is warranted.

Agree with rises on all three. Togekiss and Mega Houndoom stallbreak very well right now, and Togekiss' defensive set is also really good. Klefki is a monster with support between Screens, Spikes and TWave. Not much more needs to be said.

 

[Alfalfa]

B- ---> B: Even though the initial Weavile hype has died down and it's not the requirement it was in the Mence meta, it's still better than it was in XY. A faster meta is better for it and it's speed tier sits above some important threats like Mega Metagross, Lati@s, and Greninja. Icicle Crash+Knock Off is now legal as well, and the extra power over Ice Punch is nice. STAB Knock Off+STAB Ice is really anti-meta right now. The decline in Azu and Keldeo also benefits it, as they were two of it's biggest checks.

C+ ---> B-: Very good right now. Regenerator makes it an absolute pain to take down, and it's got similar defensive stats to Chesnaught. It also has a ton of different support moves like Knock Off and Sleep Powder. It can even carry Rock Slide to hit Talonflame and other Flying types on the switch. It can also check a ton of threats, and can shut down Landorus-T and Mega Lopunny in addition to a number of other things.

B- ---> B: Another defensive Pokemon that is really good right now. The raw bulk is just great, and it's Psychic typing also helps it a ton. It checks a ton of new Megas, beats Scarf Lando-T, can provide Screens support, and can check Greninja. It covers a lot of general threats in one slot, and as such I think a rise is warranted.

Agree with rises on all three. Togekiss and Mega Houndoom stallbreak very well right now, and Togekiss' defensive set is also really good. Klefki is a monster with support between Screens, Spikes and TWave. Not much more needs to be said.

I would like to clarify something on Cresselia, and state that specially defensive variants (standard) are never 2HKOd by 216 SpA Greninja's Dark Pulse, even after Stealth Rock:

216 SpA Life Orb Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Cresselia: 172-203 (38.7 - 45.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
40 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Cresselia: 144-172 (32.4 - 38.7%) -- 98.6% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

 

[astroboy]

B- ---> C
Mega Garchomp! Remember this guy? Yeah. Well aside from being outclassed by regular garchomp as a rock setter and sweeper, Kyurem-B outclasses it as a mixed wallbreaker! And with ORAS coming along, he's gotten the gift of a disgusting amount of better megas and competition from mega steelix lmfao, and imo, this thing is really on the same level of stuff like Shuckle or Thundurus-T in C. Not to mention how he not has new things to worry about, like the rise of Gren, Mega-Altaria, landog being on every team, and Mega-Slowbro (kinda). Also, the speed creep isn't doing him any favors.

Supporting Cress, Klefki, and Megadoom to rise. Could go either way on tangrowth

 

[Alfalfa]

B- ---> C
Mega Garchomp! Remember this guy? Yeah. Well aside from being outclassed by regular garchomp as a rock setter and sweeper, Kyurem-B outclasses it as a mixed wallbreaker! And with ORAS coming along, he's gotten the gift of a disgusting amount of better megas and competition from mega steelix lmfao, and imo, this thing is really on the same level of stuff like Shuckle or Thundurus-T in C. Not to mention how he not has new things to worry about, like the rise of Gren, Mega-Altaria, landog being on every team, and Mega-Slowbro (kinda). Also, the speed creep isn't doing him any favors.

Supporting Cress, Klefki, and Megadoom to rise. Could go either way on tangrowth

Kyurem-B and Mega Garchomp are a bit different wallbreakers, as Mega Garchomp can get past Clefable, Ferrothorn, and Chansey without needing Iron Head for Clef + Outrage for Chans, but it should be noted that Mega Garchomp has huge issues with Iron Defense + Calm Mind Mega Slowbro, who can usually tank both its sand-boosted Earthquakes and Draco Meteors. Mega Altaria actually loses to Mega Garchomp with the combination of sand-boosted Earthquakes + sand damage (on the switch), though not being able to OHKO offensive variants with EQ + Sand damage + Stealth Rock is indeed a liability. C+ seems plausible, but I think you are not giving it enough credit.

 

[Kurona]

B- ---> C
Mega Garchomp! Remember this guy? Yeah. Well aside from being outclassed by regular garchomp as a rock setter and sweeper, Kyurem-B outclasses it as a mixed wallbreaker! And with ORAS coming along, he's gotten the gift of a disgusting amount of better megas and competition from mega steelix lmfao, and imo, this thing is really on the same level of stuff like Shuckle or Thundurus-T in C. Not to mention how he not has new things to worry about, like the rise of Gren, Mega-Altaria, landog being on every team, and Mega-Slowbro (kinda). Also, the speed creep isn't doing him any favors.

Supporting Cress, Klefki, and Megadoom to rise. Could go either way on tangrowth

Mega Chomp has absolutely zero competition from Mega Steelix. Hell, Mega Chomp is pretty much the entire reason Mega Steelix is outclassed as a Sand Force user and one of the reasons I think it should be unranked (more on that later).

 

[heritage]

Mega Chomp is fine where it is. 92 Speed, while slow for a sweeper, is fine enough for the job it does as one of the best wallbreakers in the tier. It has a pretty nifty ability if you know how to use it correctly, fantastic bulk and it has great offensive stats to hit pretty much everything. It also has the move pool to back it up, with things like SD, Fire Blast, Earthquake, it's got it all. Frankly, it might need to move up a bit in my opinion, but I'll get to that when I have time. At least leave it at B-, since it really shouldn't move down any further.

 

[bb skarm]

It's 92 Speed.

And no, Mega Garchomp doesn't have to move down. People give this thing too little credit. The Mega Swords Dance set is literally insane. It has next to now defensive checks apart from Skarmory and Togekiss, and it hits like actual balls. It's not outclassed at all as a wallbreaker / late-game sweeper, because it packs two great STABs resisted by not much (skarmory may be the only relevant one, but i could be wrong), and it has the highest Attack stat in the tier next to Mega Heracross. It's slow, yes, but why is that being held upon it so much? It's got base 92 Speed, outpacing up to neutral base 90s and Excadrill that aren't Jolly (hint: barely of them). It's got amazing bulk, so even if it moves last some of the time, it should be able to sponge most neutral attacks. As a matter of fact, +2 Earthquake and Outrage may just be some of the most powerful attacks in the entire tier. We're looking at shit like this,

+2 252+ Atk Mega Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 385-454 (97.7 - 115.2%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Mega Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 295-348 (83.8 - 98.8%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Mega Garchomp Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 149-176 (44.6 - 52.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Mega Garchomp Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 580-684 (90.3 - 106.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Mega Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 271-319 (89.1 - 104.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

That's literally OHKOing the best physical walls in the metagame, and actually 2HKOing the highest Defense user in the tier after Stealth Rock.

As a matter of fact, I want people to know this calc exists:

+2 252+ Atk Mega Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Slowbro: 205-243 (52 - 61.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

This thing is balls powerful. It doesn't struggle at all with its low Speed apart from Pokemon like Gardevoir, and it is pretty much impossible to check after a Swords Dance defensively unless your stall team has something weird like a Gardevoir

KEEP IN B-

 

[Vert]

ye these are just probably mostly repeated opinions, but yea wutev

C+ to B- An excellent pivot that fits on bulky offense and balance teams with ease. The rise in Mega Gyarados, while the declined usage of Mega Charizard Y and Mega Pinsir makes it much more useful. It walls Keldeo which is really nice (Specs Hydro Pump hurts tho), and beats 3 of the new Megas - Lopunny, Sceptile, weakened Metagross, and Slowbro. It can use Knock Off to take out troublesome items, while Regenerator heals any damage Tangrowth lost. Earthquake screws with Heatran (on switch), Jirachi, and Excadrill. Hidden Power [Ice] is an overall great coverage move. It simply walls a lot of common threats, but being Knock Off prone and losing to pretty much the other half of the metagame means it shouldn't move any higher. It is still a really good pivot with AV.

B- to C+/C Really, it's either that something it walled declined in usage or sucks now like MHera and MCham or a lot of the new threats beat it. Well guess what, it is both. Doublade now has competition with Sableye and being Knock Off prone means it should drop down. Mega Pinsir runs Earthquake now for Diancie and Metagross...not as valuable to stall like in the past

B- to B I've used this extensively in late-XY and used my team again in ORAS. It is a super useful offensive utility 'mon. WoW Utility is super annoying to offensive teams. Nasty Plot + STAB + Taunt 6-0s stall teams once you get Chansey and Clefable to around 60%. I don't want to get in-depth because gary and aragorn the knight (stupid username btw) covered up what I wanted to say.

B- to B Ridiculous cleaner with extremely easy to wear down offensive checks like Azumarill, Keldeo, Conkeldurr, and Breloom. Stall teams have like zero ways to defeat this monster because Hydro Pump / Ice Fang / Crunch defeats every stall 'mon for a 2HKO bar Clefable, which is easy to adapt too using Poison Jab. I am hesitant to bring in Keldeo when a +2 Bisharp is on a rampage for example because it puts it in KO range for Mega Sharpedo to finish off. Ferrothorn is 2HKOed by Crunch with little prior damage (easy to see when only recovery it has initially is Leftovers), same with Mega Scizor after Stealth Rock, Skarmory, oh wait HPump. Ice Fang isn't even completely neccesary just because its STAB do a truck load allowing easy adaptation for Mega Sharpedo to wreck havoc. It has 4MSS and is dependant on teammates to do work most of the time, but it is very dangerous with correct support.

B- to B+/A- Spikes, Thunder Wave, checks and walls important threats, pretty much the only hazard setter that beats Mega Sableye due to Fairy-STAB (SR Landorus-I lol no one uses that). Spikes is very dangerous in this metagame too. Klefki is a great 'mon and has been discussed a lot. Klefki should move up.

C+ to B- The upper Magnemite chain got better in ORAS. Magneton can pivot in to Greninja and revenge kill it. It keeps momentum with Volt Switch while beating troublesome 'mons Magnezone would dream of revenge killing. It checks SD Talonflame which is amazing, other cool stuff like Mega Gyarados.

other things i agree with

conk to B
cress to B (never used it but i see cool reasons)
sableye to C-/D

 

[Guidorealmsmc]

Mega steelix and mega audino from D-Unranked

Why and how are these viablie in ou? First I'll talk about mega audino

There is absolutely no reason to use mega audino in ou. Sure its bulky but why not use chansey? Not only does chansey have bigger wishes it doesn't use your mega slot. Sure it can calm mind but why not use clefable? Clefable is so much more useful because unaware and magic guard make it a good status absorber and setup sweeper check depending on team structure. Finally sylveon doesn't burn up your mega and it can do everything mega audino does but better and has baton pass. Mega audino has pros,over them but its cons overshadow them too much.

Mega steelix is just like mega audino. It is outclassed to the point of making it hard to justify its use. Want a bulky steel type mega? Mega aggron is everything mega steelix wishes it was. Not only that need a volt turn stopper? Use ferrothorn iron barbs punishes u-turn spam and it resists volt switch and doesn't use a mega slot and ferrothorn haas spikes. Finally want a sand abuser? Excadrill as it has swords dance rapid spin and sand rush making it a better sand abuser

Sorry if i sounded harsh

 

[Kurona]

Mega steelix and mega audino from D-Unranked

Why and how are these viablie in ou? First I'll talk about mega audino

There is absolutely no reason to use mega audino in ou. Sure its bulky but why not use chansey? Not only does chansey have bigger wishes it doesn't use your mega slot. Sure it can calm mind but why not use clefable? Clefable is so much more useful because unaware and magic guard make it a good status absorber and setup sweeper check depending on team structure. Finally sylveon doesn't burn up your mega and it can do everything mega audino does but better and has baton pass. Mega audino has pros,over them but its cons overshadow them too much.

Mega steelix is just like mega audino. It is outclassed to the point of making it hard to justify its use. Want a bulky steel type mega? Mega aggron is everything mega steelix wishes it was. Not only that need a volt turn stopper? Use ferrothorn iron barbs punishes u-turn spam and it resists volt switch and doesn't use a mega slot and ferrothorn haas spikes. Finally want a sand abuser? Excadrill as it has swords dance rapid spin and sand rush making it a better sand abuser

Sorry if i sounded harsh

Pretty much agree but we're not discussing D-ranked 'mon right now. I'd assume they're ranked because Alexwolf was trying to put all the new Megas in the viability list just so we get discussion on them.

 

[jacksoras]

Manaphy for A
I know we are supposed to focus on B- and C+ rankings but I really feel like this has to happen. Manaphy is a lot better in ORAS, more people are turning towards balanced and stall teams and Manaphy crushes them, mega sableye is set up bait for it as well, and with mega sableye being ridiculously popular it is one of the reasons manaphy is so good. Manaphy has three sets I feel are worth mentioning, firstly, the 3 attacks TG set, this set is not as good as the TG rain dance set, but it is effective because it can run certain moves to lure in problematic pokemon for your team, e.g. psychic for mega venu / amoong, energy ball for rotom-w and ice beam for celebi. Manaphy's best set would definitely be its RD TG rest set, this set is capable of running through balanced and stall teams, this set is so damn threatening to all team archetypes. There is one more set I want to talk about that I have used recently to great success and that is RD CM rest defensive manaphy. This set might seem like it is outclassed by suicune, but it really isn't. Manaphy doesn't have to rely on restalk, its offensive prescence and power is much more as well as its speed that allows it be better against threats like LO mamoswine. Overall manaphy is a very dangerous threat in ORAS OU with three very viable sets, with one getting past the checks of the other two, and the other two being able to heal and last throughout the game and set up when ready, it has good all rounded stats and a great movepool to help it be a real threat to all team archetypes.​

 

[Alfalfa]

Doublade was a thing late XY after the M-Mawile ban because it countered things like Terrakion, Mega Medicham and Mega Heracross. It doesn't want to take a Knock Off from Mega Gallade. Stall has Unaware Clefable and Mega Sableye to deal with this and offense got things that otuspeed it. Comparing it to Greninja is pointless because they do different stuff. I think A+ is fine for him


Mega Latios hits as much as LO Latios and the difference is bulk vs mega slot. The only thing Mega Latios has over LO Latios is bulk and that's not worth your mega slot. Meanwhile Mega Latias' set that puts it over Mega Latios is the Sub Roost CM Stored Power set, which is not only walled by dark types (and since either bisharp, greninja or m-sableye is on every team, it's pretty much deadweight) but also has competition from other special set-up sweepers who does their job better which much less support needed. I'm talking about CM Clefable, CM M-Sableye, Rock Polish M-Diancie and Landorus-I and Thundurus-I.


1. This is an OU topic, not an Ubers topic
2. It's not broken in Uber
3. If anything will be banned from Ubers, it would be Primal Groudon, which won't be banned

Mega Latios hits slightly harder than Life Orb Latias, not LO Latios:

252 SpA Life Orb Latios Psyshock vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 226-266 (35.2 - 41.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Mega Latios Psyshock vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 204-240 (31.7 - 37.3%) -- 87% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Latias Psyshock vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 200-238 (31.1 - 37%) -- 77.3% chance to 3HKO

 

[Arcanine is Regal]

...its time

I nominate Sharpedo(Mega) to B+!!!!

I have been using this thing extensively for about 2 months and have had success against high level players and managed to stay in the top 50 of the ladder the whole time I was using this thing, I know that individually this doesnt mean much but I thought I would mention that my experiences and opinions have been formed by battling good players and not low ladder garbage. That being said this thing is amazing, and definitely deserves to move up. I wrongly assumed that sharpedo was going to be bad against stall when I started using him, he quickly proved me wrong when I realized that he has only like 2 reliable switchins that can be found on stall(being clefable and chesnaught, everything is getting at least 2hkod with rocks up. He is good at forcing switches and people overestimate their physical walls against them, they will have a skarm at 88% and send it in only to take rocks damage and get 2hkod by crunch, I mean this is the case for many mons like ferrothron, amoongus, empoleon, mega sableye, like seriously he destroys stall teams. Ill throw up some calcs for proof, but also keep in mind that sharpedo is meant to come in mid to late game when there is prior damage on things and then secure easy 2hkos.

calcs:

Hide

252+ Atk Strong Jaw Mega Sharpedo Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 141-166 (46.3 - 54.6%) -- 59.8% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Strong Jaw Mega Sharpedo Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 129-153 (38.6 - 45.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Strong Jaw Mega Sharpedo Crunch vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 153-181 (43.4 - 51.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Strong Jaw Mega Sharpedo Crunch vs. 252 HP / 136+ Def Amoonguss: 232-274 (53.7 - 63.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252+ Atk Strong Jaw Mega Sharpedo Crunch vs. 248 HP / 208+ Def Empoleon: 186-219 (50.1 - 59%) -- 74.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Strong Jaw Mega Sharpedo Ice Fang vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 154-182 (40.5 - 47.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Mega Sharpedo Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 133-157 (33.7 - 39.8%) -- 27.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

These are the mons that can best handle sharpedo on stall and most of them are just get 2hkod, while seem need only a slight amount of prior damage.

Anyway onto offense, there is no need to get into it too much because you guys know what late game cleaners are. But I will say that I think the argument that sharpedo only gets one chance to sweep late game, is pretty weak because that is pretty obvious for a late game cleaner and with sharpedo you really only need to soften up a few things like azumaril or keldeo, and remove strong priority users like tflame, conk, breloom, and then he is good to go. You need a team of five to help eliminate a few threats in order for sharpedo to easily sweep most offense. I wont throw another wall of calcs at you but sharpedo just about OHKOs everything on offense that doesnt resist it, to give you a good measure, sharpedos crunch hits harder than most mega gyarados crunch at +1 and sharpedo doesnt need a free turn to dragon dance in order to get to that power.
Here is just a power comparison(I dont see adamant max attack gyara too often so ill just use jolly for the comparison.)
+1 252 Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Crunch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gallade: 318-375 (114.8 - 135.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Strong Jaw Mega Sharpedo Crunch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gallade: 322-381 (116.2 - 137.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
I also want to point out that sharpedo's "setup" if you will, is very safe and allows very safe +1 speed against offensive teams. There is a slight risk of them using agility on your protect, or sub, but those situations are rare against offense.

Sharpedo also does well against balance and you can decide what you need him to do for your team, if you want him to break ferrothorn early, just go ahead and mega evolve and crunch first turn, or you coudl save him for late game to clean up, it depends on the situation. And that is the main reason he should move up so much, because with just one set he can be helpful against all team types, and allows the player using him to customize what sharpedos role is for each game, it could wallbreak early, or clean up late game, it just depends what you need.

So the negatives to this thing are it does have a mega opportunity cost, it does require a fair amount of team support to manage his checks/counters, and he is weak to priority which can be tough to get rid of against some teams. I think sharpedo requires more skill and experience to use then some of the other megas, and that is what is keeping him out of the A ranks, but his ability to adapt to the playstyle he is facing and be damn near uncounterable against stall, and damn near uncheckable late game against offense, seems to be unparalleled and I think he should move up to B+.

 

[Alfalfa]

Is Infernape even worth meriting in C+ Rank anymore? I heard people say it got worse in ORAS, but if we are talking about B- and C+ Ranks, then now would be the time to discuss it.

 

[theV8man]

=> B-
Mega Garchomp isn't used much, but its mixed set is really nice. With sand support, it is more frightening than Kyurem-B's counterpart set because it won't get walled by the likes of Chansey/bulky fairies (and doesn't require hazard support). One thing that's overlooked about this guy is the sheer surprise factor. People always assume it's regular Garchomp and bring in Skarmory, Slowbro, or Lando-T only to get severely crippled by a special move. Against stall it is just awesome because there's nothing that isn't 2HKO'd. Against balance/offense, Garchomp finds it harder to be of use, but if you keep it healthy it can tank hits well because of great bulk, and at 92 speed it's not getting out-sped all the time. Its Earthquake is simply ridiculous, having a good chance of OHKOing Azumarill after one round of SR. Even though theres competition from new megas, there's also been a rise in stall lately so I think Megachomp should stay put at B-.

Is Infernape even worth meriting in C+ Rank anymore? I heard people say it got worse in ORAS, but if we are talking about B- and C+ Ranks, then now would be the time to discuss it.

Don't have much experience with Infernape, but with Mega Slowbro, Altaria, and a sleuth of new Megas that troll it with 110+ speed, Infernape has definitely lost viability if anything and should move down.

 

[Mur]

I'm gonna support a few things here as I feel most mons worth mentioning have been talked about so I'm just gonna sum up my thoughts together for a few mons that really deserve the support.

Mega Houndoom to B Being able to out speed the base 110's while simultaneously being able to shut down Mega eye is very valuable right now along with its various moveset options to cripple its checks or counters(or in destiny bond's case completely remove them) which imo is way too good to be just B-. Posts above have gone way more in depth on why this move should take place so I'l save the wall of text for later.

Mega Sharpedo to B+ Basically what MegaScizor said in his post above as he goes way more in depth than I am about to. Mega sharp can adapt to pretty much any team archetype thrown at it and its power is very underrated as those calcs above really prove so. The biggest argument against it being oppurtunity cost is not incorrect but kinda weak imo because that is not really enough to keep it down as it should be an argument to keep it out of the A ranks as what this mon provides is definitely on par with the other B+ mons and not A-. So yeah move this monster up to B+.

Mega Garchomp stay in B- The speed creep really should not impact Mchomps viability too much as it's not meant to perfrom that type of role since it's a straight up wallbreaker. Its movepool+power make it an incredible wallbreaker capable of breaking many common defensive cores along with possibly cleaning up late game as 92 base speed is not terrible with something that has this much power behind it. I also noticed theV8man ninja'd me a little on this one while I was typing this up but I agree with pretty much everything in that post above other than it really should not move up but stay where it's at due to the fact that it really did not benefit from the transition. A lot of the new megas check Mchomp but at the same time the rise of stall gives it more of a chance to prove it's worth therefore it's viability is pretty much the same as in XY and should stay in B-.

 

[Flamer]

Is Infernape even worth meriting in C+ Rank anymore? I heard people say it got worse in ORAS, but if we are talking about B- and C+ Ranks, then now would be the time to discuss it.

Nape atm has one niche from what Ive seen and that's scarf. Scarfnape is a great offensive check to mons like Mega-Metagross, etc, while providing momentum, something that it's closest counterpart, Scarf Keldeo, Cannot do. I might as well summon QuickBH bc he was talking to me about nape today and he uses it far more than I think anyone does so yeh. From what Ive seen I feel nape still has it's niches but many of it's sets have become less viable so a frop might be in order but id like to see what other people have to say first.

 

[adamsoreos]

I agree with this rise to B+ as Sharpedo can actually be a pretty great offensive late game cleaner.
I've recently been running a mixed MegaPedo set with Crunch/Poison Jab/HP Fire/Hydro Pump and it's rather useful at cleaning up late game by forcing a switch and gaining a speed boost.

Here's some calcs:
4 SpA Sharpedo-Mega Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 8 SpD Landorus-Therian: 306-362 (80.1 - 94.7%) (Who worries about intimidate anyway?)
252+ Atk Sharpedo-Mega Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Clefable: 178-210 (45.1 - 53.2%)
4 SpA Life Orb Sharpedo Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 187-224 (53.1 - 63.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Strong Jaw Sharpedo-Mega Crunch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Metagross-Mega: 320-378 (105.9 - 125.1%)

It takes out some nice checks that you need for any other sweeper to come through, cleans late game, and punches holes in defensive walls while dealing with offensive switch ins!

Of course, with every nice thing in life, there is a downside.
Mega Sharpedo is rather frail (Surprisingly though it has gotten bulkier) and the use of a mega slot is rather tragic. Also, although it functions as a late game sweeper, it can often be deadweight without a speed boost or a proper prediction.

Speaking off of that however, Strong Jaw is an amazing ability paired with its pre-evo Speed Boost ability, making it a rather formidable force for teams to face if unprepared.
All in all, Sharpedo for B+. It hits hard and guarantees good versatility, but it does require necessary support to make itself shine.

 

[Prosecutor Godot]

I'm looking at the list and I'm curious about Mega-Medicham being in C+. Is it really that bad or outclassed by Mega-Gallade? Granted I have no experience with it in ORAS, I just remember it hitting so hard that it's hard for me to believe it went from A rank(I think it was?) to the same level of viability as Magneton and Infernape