Gen 6 ORAS OU Viability Ranking Thread

AM

Free Bloo
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#1
Approved by Jellicent

Art by Emrysthemay
Credit to PK Gaming for the format
Welcome to the official ORAS OU Viability Rankings thread (Ruins of Alph Version). In this thread, we as a community will rank every single usable Pokemon into "tiers." In this thread, you're encouraged to post your thoughts and opinions on the various Pokemon that are usable in ORAS OU and what tier they should fall under. Posts in this thread will be taken into account when deciding rank changes.

The general idea of the topic is to rank each OU pokemon under "rankings" that go in descending order. Since this is a general tier list, everything is lumped together. There won't be any segregation between offense & defense threats.
  • EX: Garchomp can be ranked in A tier as an offensive threat, Ferrothorn can be ranked under A as supportive threat and Skarmory can be can also be ranked in B tier as a defensive threat. These are just examples not representative of their future or current ranks.
Co-Hosts:

ORAS OU Ranking Tier List

(In alphabetical order)

S Rank:

S Rank
Clefable
Landorus-T
Lopunny (Mega)


A Rank:

A+ Rank
Diancie (Mega)
Heatran
Keldeo
Latios
Medicham (Mega)
Rotom-W
Scizor (Mega)
Tornadus-T
Tyranitar

A Rank
Charizard (Mega-X)
Excadrill
Ferrothorn
Garchomp
Jirachi
Manaphy
Metagross (Mega)
Weavile


A- Rank
Alakazam (Mega)
Bisharp
Charizard (Mega-Y)
Gardevoir (Mega)
Gliscor
Heracross (Mega)
Mew
Pinsir (Mega)
Serperior
Slowbro
Skarmory
Starmie
Suicune
Talonflame
Tangrowth
Terrakion
Thundurus
Zapdos


B Rank:

B+ Rank
Amoonguss
Azumarill
Chansey
Crawdaunt
Dragonite
Gengar
Gyarados (Mega)
Kyurem-B
Magnezone
Nidoking
Slowbro (Mega)
Venusaur (Mega)
Volcanion


B Rank
Aerodactyl (Mega)
Alakazam
Alomomola
Altaria (Mega)
Breloom
Gastrodon
Gyarados
Hydreigon
Hippowdon
Klefki
Kyurem
Latias
Latias (Mega)
Manectric (Mega)
Quagsire
Reuniclus
Slowking
Volcarona

B- Rank
Celebi
Diggersby
Dugtrio
Kabutops
Kingdra
Mamoswine
Mandibuzz
Metagross
Politoed
Raikou
Scizor
Togekiss


C Rank:

C+ Rank
Dragalge
Empoleon
Gallade (Mega)
Garchomp (Mega)
Infernape
Lucario
Omastar
Scolipede
Sharpedo (Mega)
Swampert (Mega)
Tentacruel
Thundurus-T
Victini
Zygarde

C Rank
Azelf
Feraligatr
Hawlucha
Jellicent
Magneton
Pidgeot (Mega)
Sceptile (Mega)
Seismitoad
Toxicroak
Tyranitar (Mega)


C- Rank
Aggron (Mega)
Beedrill (Mega)
Blastoise (Mega)
Chesnaught
Cobalion
Cofagrigus
Conkeldurr
Entei
Goodra
Hoopa

Rotom-H
Staraptor


D Rank:

Blissey
Bronzong
Cresselia
Houndoom (Mega)
Porygon2
Rhyperior
Sylveon
Roserade
Sableye
Shedinja
Tyrantrum
Whimsicott

Rules - Now updated 2/25/17
  • Post intelligently. Posts like "I think pokemon X should be in this tier" will be deleted.
  • No flaming and being an idiot. You'll get warned if you purposely do. This specifically includes making joke nominations about other users.
  • Usage statistics may be used to support an argument or a claim, but don't base your ENTIRE argument around them. For example, you can't just say "Pokemon X shouldn't be this tier because they aren't used that often!"
  • Suspect talk, unrelated stuff, one liners that ask questions that provide no substance, something that doesn't really pertain to rankings or petty arguments about semantics and definitions, such as the definition of a counter as one example, will be deleted.
  • POST REPLAYS FOR NOMINATIONS FROM UNRANKED TO RANKED OR YOUR POST WILL BE DELETED!!!
Blacklisted Pokemon: All posts regarding these pokemon will be deleted.

Nothing for now if the rules above are followed.

Current Discussion Points:

S -> A+
A- -> B+
A- -> B+

Keeping D Rank?
 
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Omfuga

Banned deucer.
#3
Lopunny S rank?? what lol

Can I get an explanation for this please.

Also I'd consider starmie and Metagross, but mostly Starmie, to A rank. And slowbro should probably go to A-.

Starmie is by far the best hazard removal in the tier (defog lati@s is sooo bad) and scald burning is just broken as fuck in ORAS on top of great bulk and being a keldeo check thats not as bothered by ttar as any other good keld checks (reflect type scald burns and twave).

Lopunny is weak as fuck and walled/punished hard by the 2 best mons in the tier. While lopunny can be a huge thorn in the side of offensive teams, it's weak and doesn't have much defensive value. its walled by so many things and giving up a mega that's capable of breaking stall (like medicham) or another offense-breaker with more defensive value (scizor) seems stupid. That said, I still think Lopunny is a p good pokemon. But honestly i'd put it in A rank or A+ at most.

CM slowbro is really vulnerable to status and without the bulk + immunity to crits of its mega counterpart, it can be p much easily worn down. Even a burnt slowbro can't beat something like Metagross or Lopunny reliably anymore. The twave set is bad and I hope that's not what its up there for.

And scizor and medicham imo should be S for the reasons stated above. Certainly scizor but with the ban of sableye medicham is basically unwalled in this tier.
 
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AM

Free Bloo
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Champion
#4
Welcome back. TDK and I will be co-hosting this. TDK will provide reasoning on certain changes made from the old thread in the near future (Omfuga ). For the time being there will be no council and nominations, raises, and drops will be based on community input here. We'll work on discussion points but feel free to bring up your own discussion points as well.

For now I don't have much to add my only discussion point I will allow people to discuss is whether or not D should be maintained? The validity of niche pokemons kind of teeters on viability and I'm of the opinion as a resource they shouldn't be getting an entire sub rank based on them. If players want to use niche pokemon at the level of D that's fine by them but to newer players or anyone new to the tier we probably shouldn't be advertising them.

Assuming the overall community agrees with removing D, we'll consider what should be moved up, if that ends up being the case. If we keep it, nothing changes.

Otherwise happy posting.
 

AM

Free Bloo
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Champion
#5
Slowbro will more than likely be moving down when it's time to update. It was actually A rank in the last thread and stayed there in the transition. Moving down was a past discussion point prior to ORAS becoming old gen anyways for some of the points stated by Omfuga among other things.

M-Scizor is more than likely going to S unless there is a large opposition. Its position in S is a matter of perspective as its come up a lot in the past with varying opinions, but TDK and I agreed that a lot of M-Scizor counterplays are better on paper than in practice, as it can still come out of these matchups on the winning side due to U-Turn, reliable recovery, and its high offensive and defensive presence.

Out of the things mentioned by Omfugas post these two are much more clear in terms of decision. I'll leave the rest as discussion points for people to discuss.

Discussion Points:

A- -> A
A- -> A
A+ -> S
S -> A+

Keeping D Rank?
________________
 

M Dragon

The north wind
is a Tournament Directoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Tutor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past SPL Championis the Smogon Tour Season 17 Champion
Moderator
#6
Latios should be S: the best offensive defogger in the game, hits very hard, can even trick scarf/specs, great resists, very easy to fit in nearly every offensive or balanced team
MLopunny is very good, especially vs offense, but it is nowhere near S. In fact I think it should be low A+. As I said it is great vs offense, but it really struggles vs balanced and defensive teams, and you have to rely on HJK (which means a 50% recoil if they protect or if it misses) to beat a lot of things, such as MDiancie (always has protect), or Ferro and Tran (they sometimes have Protect)
I think MCham is fine in A+

Basically, S tier mons should be mons that are very easy to fit in nearly any team that are also the best at a certain roles. And I think that Landt + Clefable + Latios (in that order) are easily the best mons in ORAS.
One of the mistakes people do when making these lists is trying to rank every mon that is very good as S tier. I mean we all know that MLop, MZor, MDiancie, Keldeo, Heatran, TTar and the other A+ mons are really good and very scary, but S mons should be those who really dominate the tier because those 2 reasons: easy to fit in most teams and they are the best at a certain role.

Also, if you see usage in any ORAS tournament, those 3 are always (or nearly always) top 3
 

Funbot28

Breaking hearts since '09
is a Pre-Contributor
#7
Oh one of my fav OU metas, lets talk about it again


S -> A: Agree
As Fuga and MDragon stated previously, Mega Lopp really struggles on breaking mons it supposed to due to the fact that HJK is kinda an unreliable STAB option due to many common threats running Protect. Also, there are many common checks used against it currently mainly in Clefable, Slowbro, and Tangrowth that really limit it from doing its main role upon breaking balance teams due to it failing to net those 2HKOes without a PuP boost. Also, although it still does very well against offense, those teams are starting to prepare themselves against Lop by running things like Scarf Keldeo and Garchomp which are able to check Mega Lop (and ofc the old favorite in Talonflame). Mega Lopunny is still one of the more consistent Megas in ORAS, but I am not sure if it should be placed along stuff like Lando-T and Clefable.


A- -> A: Agree
Starmie was one of my favorite Spinners to use late ORAS due to how well it could check many common threats such as Keldeo, Mega Diancie, Heatran, and Mega Scizor (with Reflect Type). Although it is not always able to reliably spin, it still is able to beat most of the common SR setters in Lando-T, Excadrill, Heatran, and Clefable due to it not minding T-Wave thanks to Natural Cure. Offensive Analytic sets were also something that I found were quite underrated and worked well due to Starmie being able to force a lot of swithins thanks to its STABs + great coverage. It does not like the Pursuit infested meta (but can work around it with Reflect Type), but appreciates the ban of Mega Sableye, meaning it has a much more easier time spinning against defensive teams.


A- -> A: Disagree
While I will admit, I had underrated Mega Metagross after its suspect test, making me believe it wasn't as good as people claimed (which I learned very quickly it was not underwhelming lol), I do still feel that the recent meta trends prevent it from rising up to A. Bulky offense teams really do not struggle to much against it due to Rotom-W being one of the more consistent answers to it (if you do not get haxxed by Zen Headbutt) and with Mega Scizor being everywhere, it really does not help Mega Metagross break down teams as easily. It still shines versus offense due to Dual Punch sets lacking many reliable switchins for those teams, but I still feel the 4MSS is too prevalent of an issue for Mega Gross for it to rise due to missing coverage options leaving it to be checked by certain defensive mons.


A+ -> S: Agree
This thing is an absolute savage now that Mega Sableye is finally gone, as it lost it best answer (out of the already few ones it had). Really, only Bold Clefable is the only true switchin outside of niche stuff like Reuniclus and Cresselia, leaving Mega Medicham to be one of the best if not the best wallbreakers in the current metagame. MDragon had brought up the point that S Rank mons need to be splashable and be the best at their role. I find Mega Medicham caters to both of these categories due to it being one of the better options for Bulky Offensive teams to use, while being one of the more consistent wallbreakers in the ORAS metagame. it still struggles against Offense due to its average speed, but its ability to get a kill each time its in versus defensive teams proves to me its S rank worthy at this point.

I also agree with Mega Scizor to S, but not sure on Latios just yet. All the D rank mons look niche (even Shed due to Mega Sab being gone) for them to be used on any competitive team, so yeh we can unrank them all imo.
 

Omfuga

Banned deucer.
#8
hey. I have some more suggestions after a deeper look at the VR.

hera from a to a-
zapdos b+ to a-
latias b to b+
kyurem b- to b

For one, zapdos is listed in both B+ and B so idk which rank it's supposed to be. But it's the best defogger on bulky offense and balance probably, since it's more sturdy than latios and not pursuit-bait. So I think it should be A-. But at least delete one of the 2 zapdoses listed lolol

Hera from A to A- is mostly due to the fact that stall is way worse now, and its value as a pokemon was mostly as "the best stallbreaker". While hera is still probably the best stallbreaker, medicham is now unwalled on stall due to the departure of Sableye. The only niche heracross really has over medicham in current ORAS is not being trappable by dugtrio, and stall has to also work without magic bounce to maintain dug's sash. So honestly, I don't see much of a reason to use heracross other than a cute defensive typing and good bulk.

God, I know this one won't pass since everyone hates latias but its still worth noting that healing wish is invaluable on hyper offense and I truly believe that Latias mostly outclasses Latios there. Unfortunately, HO isn't very good, so latias' rank still shouldn't be that high. But the ability to healing wish is still massively useful for an otherwise-completely outclassed pokemon and I think it deserves a higher rank.

Kyurem imo belongs in the same rank as hydreigon since they're extremely similar. Kyurem has probably the best offensive STAB in the game (specs ice beam), but it has a weakness to rocks and an extremely awkward defensive typing. It's also pretty slow. However, due to Kyurem's absurd 125/90/90 bulk and honestly just the ability to click ice beam constantly, it carves a niche as a non-pursuitable offensive dragon in the tier.
 
#9
I entirely disagree with the notion of Latios going to S:
http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...age-43-post-1063.3571990/page-39#post-6993767

Impartial on Starmie and MMeta

Medi and Lop should both be A+ (keep medi; lower lop)

Medi: Medicham technically has like 1 rare full counter (Mbro), but it is far from being a consistently useful mon to the extent Clef and Lando are. Medicham essentially has no defensive use, so its roles pretty much entirely lay on the offensive side. Even given this, its role as an offensive pokemon isn't as spectacular as it may seem. The omnipresence of Lando alone makes spamming HJK hard, and then there's also the fact that Clefable walls non-zen and Slowbro walls non-tpunch. And putting switchins aside, many potent offensive pokemon scare Medi right out. Something like Keldeo or Latios can really easily start applying pressure vs a Medi and swing the momentum of the game. In regards to the matchup vs stall, it might get 1 kill at best but Dugtrio's still going to trap it pretty handily (it can double eq vs non-bp, bp sets are walled by clef as they run ice). Overall I just don't see Medicham as one of the kings of the tier.

Lop: Lopunny has unresisted stabs and fantastic speed, but it's pretty mediocre vs all playstyles and requires lots of team support to be useful. Against bulkier teams there's gonna be some Skarmory, Hippo, Slowbro, Zapdos or whatever just hard walling it so I won't get into that. Against more offensive teams there's either gonna be a physdef Clef/Sciz or a Lando-t (the best / most common pokemon in the tier), so it's gonna need teammates to do the primary breaking. Even if someone's Lando goes down there are still many scarfers like Keldeo which easily revenge it and scare it out. Another big thing to mention in using Lop is the opportunity cost of not using both A: crazy wallbreaking megas like Garde / Medi and B: awesome defensive ones like Sciz / Bro. Lopunny is neither great defensively nor offensively so calling it S rank with the likes of Lando and Clef seems kind of silly.

edit: kyu zap need to rise and hera needs to drop as Omfuga stated
 

AM

Free Bloo
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Champion
#10
Update.

Drops:

Slowbro: A --> A-
Heracross (Mega): A -> A-

Raises:

Zapdos: B+ -> A-
Metagros (Mega): A- -> A
Kyurem: B- -> B

TDK and I are still discussing Lopunny but these are the things we agreed on for sure in terms of what should be moved around. Others like Latios and M-Cham we came to conclusion they should stay where they are, based on some of the points raised here. Reasoning for most of these can be provided in previous comments.

I'm revising some of the discussion points in addition to Lopunny. TDK were in agreement that Terrakion and M-Alakazam could use a drop in ranks but I'm going to leave discussion open for this to bring points in favor of leaving them where they are. I've updated the OP to reflect this.

I'd like to keep discussion generally in the As and Bs only in terms of raises and drops. A- seems like a good middle ground to start considering the large group of mons there that teeter between different viabilities and relevancy in the tier. Besides that it's kind of free discussion from here on out.

As a general fyi with the exception of a Lopunny verdict if it comes sooner, I'll be doing updates on a bi-weekly basis. The input from everyone has been really solid so far and a big help for making changes. If I missed anything minor like a rank change on an update just let me know and I'll fix. Thanks and let's keep it moving.
 
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#11
Lopunny definitely deserves A+ rank, it's one of the biggest threats in the meta but isn't as rounded nor as splashable as Clef or Lando.

I also wanted to make a point about Hydreigon and M-Latias. Both of these mons are currently under ranked in my opinion, I know there was strong resentment against M-Tias near the end of ORAS as the main gen but never understood it, it's a great mon which can fulfill several different roles and act as a fantastic check to many threats. Of course it's weak to Pursuit but it fares way better than Latios against Tyranitar/Weavile, of course the opportunity cost is to be taken into account but M-Tias remains a potent threat, both on the offensive and the defensive spectrum. I'd suggest a rise to B+.

Hydreigon also deserves to reach B+, the Spex set is extremely menacing given the ridiculous number of good dark resists in the tier, it creates massive holes in balanced teams and can put a decent amount of pressure on Clef thanks to Flash Cannon. Leaving it in B rank is underselling it imo.

Rising up Diggersby wouldn't be a crime either, this dude is so strong ! Even though it has nearly useless defensive presence, its raw power is certainly menacing as well.
 

Eclipse

I've seen so much I'm going blind & I'm brain dead virtually
is a Contributor to Smogon
#12
Got a nom of my own here:

A- -> A

Suicune is absolutely one of the scariest threats to prep for in this meta mostly in part due to its Vincune set which preys on the more passive nature of teams, and has only become better with Sableye leaving due to the rise in spike-stacking teams which Vincune performs well on. Even Roar Cune on spike-stacking teams performs as one of the best phazers in the tier, and IMO poses as more of a threat than just about anything in the A- ranks, so I'd propose for it to rise.
 
#13
Finally found this place, you guys have been hiding from me long enough lol. Anyway As much as I love lopunny its not in the same league as clefable or Landorous. Clef can potentially set up against much of the Tier, cripple its checks with T-wave and fits on everything from stall to Hyper offense with its various sets. Lando is Lando and like clef can fit on virtually any archtype except maybe stall, is glue for many teams doing everything from Setting rocks, to sweeping and revenging. Both also wall Lopunny to the end of time.

Lopunny lacks the splashability of both and despite its great speed tier and duel stabs doesn't quite death knell offense. Even here Lando, Talon and Clef if your so willing all stop it cold, Prioty exists to. Lopunny also needs fake out to mega evolve safely and chip since it has very little bulk. The metagame is also dominated by balance and bulky offense do her no favours and while she is rightly the go to mega for many of us she is not S rank status. Drop Lopunny to A+

As for D-rank I say keep it since we retained it for the majority of ORAS, You probably wont run them most of the time but they all have solid niches that can benefit you occasionally and ORAS is rather decentralised compared to Sumo
 

z0mOG

I COULD BE BANNED!
is a Tiering Contributor
#14
to B+.

A list of the mons that Dug can usually successfully trap:

Tyranitar, Heatran, Diancie-Mega, Charizard-mega-x, Heracross-Mega (with chip), Lopunny, Weavile, Alakazam, Gardevoir-Mega, Metagross-Mega, Excadrill, Volcarona, Volcanion, Medicham-Mega, Jirachi (uturnless/stallbreaker), Raikou, Manectric-Mega, Bisharp, Magnezone, Terrakion, Kyurem, Nidoking


Despite not having the extra 20 attack gained in SM, Dug is still such a large offensive threat because of the sheer amount of relevant threats it can check. To be more specific, the larger presence of Heatran, Tyranitar, and the existence of Lopunny, Gardevoir, and especially Diancie

It functions as a very strong trapping support for sweepers like Volcarona, or for the Zards, or my favorite broken core dug-mew.

With the ban of Sableye and offense being as good of a play style as it will ever be in ORAS, Dug is starting to go from anti-meta to just becoming the meta.

Here are some stats from smogtour backing my claim:
ORAS OU Week 2:
| 42 | Dugtrio |39 | 3.53% | 51.28% |

ORAS OU Week 5:
| 44 | Dugtrio | 33 | 3.42% | 66.67% |

ORAS OU Week 8:
| 32 | Dugtrio | 42 | 5.75% | 64.29% |
 
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#15
Think Dugtrio should go up. Not because of Focus Sash, because of Choice Band.

Has none of Focus Sash's drawbacks, much more power. Compensates for lack of Sableye-Mega in this metagame, by being less reliant on Sableye and much more killing power to boot. Can crush the throats of targets with impending ease. Especially because there are so many of these targets in the metagame.

Lopunny must fall, too. Little reason to stay in S. Meta is more bulky, and Lopunny can't have item.
 
#17
I'm bad at explaining my thought process sorry in advance.
S -> A + While Lop is still a great mon vs offense it has a tough time breaking through fat teams, also nothing should be S rank apart from the two titans of the tier, honestly might consider lop to even be A rank since the current metagame is fairly bulky.


A -> A+ Metagross is a beast that can actually break through fat teams with correct movesets (tpunch for slowbro/skarm, hammer arm for tran/ferro, hpfire for scizor/ferro) it can also provide pursuit trapping abilities for something like mzam considering ur healthy enough and lati, even bp is useful for weavile and diancie while picking off weakened foes


A- -> A Suicune is running the current metagame with its vincune set beats mons like none rest amoongus and even cmclef, it also self checks opposing cune with a rest roar set still being very good, cune is just an insanely easy mon to use with very little risk of using it. (ban scald btw)


B+ -> A- really solid mon beats the super op keldeo and vincune with maxspef rest which is my favorite set currently, spore will always be a useful move either forcing a 50/50 if they have an amoonguss of their own or just flat out sleeping a mon.


B+ -> A- traps most scizor variants while also switching into clefable and clicking a strong specs attack for pretty much free. Does what it always has but current metagame trends really favor magnezone.
 
#19
As Mounts points out, this thread is outdated and AM/TDK are now inactive. We would like to revive this thread, but ideally we would like a new leadership team for facilitating the ORAS Viability Rankings. If you are interested in running this project, please send me a private message expressing interest!