Approved by Calloflochie; original post made by Mazz
I for one, along with many others I'm sure, feel as though there is some untapped power within the UU environment. There is substantial evidence for this idea in the form of one commonality for most tiers, UU included: there always seems to be one or more new-fangled, hyped up sets that weren't originally main-stay or seen as "viable" by the community, but somehow has taken the metagame by storm. This can be seen in DPP OU (with Special Lucario transitioning to SD Lucario, Heatran eventually running items other than Choice Scarf, and the influx of ChestoRest Kingdra) in ADV (with the vaunted TyraniBoah now becoming almost an urban myth in comparison to Special and DD Tyranitar, and the increasing popularity of SupeRachi) and in BW OU (with the advent of SubSalac Terrakion, SubDisable Gengar, and ChestoRest Volcarona). Yes, some of these sets may have been found early on with respect to the creation of the tier or fairly recently, the point is, though, that there seems to be an endless supply of effective and potent sets out there yet to be discovered, especially factoring in metagame swings and the possible tier shifts. The purpose of this project will be to systematically subject each and every UU pokemon to a collective body of research in an attempt to uncover these "hidden gems", so to speak, and hopefully spark some creativity throughout the UU community.
The Process:
Each week, I will choose a different UU Pokemon, sometimes chosen by random, sometimes chosen by curiousity, of which participants will try to personally create a new set for that is not already on-site or in the process of being put on-site. Participants will be given 5 days to create their set, with discussion about the particular sets being promoted throughout, and on the 6th and 7th day of the week, a vote will be held to choose which user's set represented the most creative and simultaneously competivitely viable set to utilize in the current UU metagame. Once the votes are tallied and a winner is crowned, the set will be archived in the OP and the process will start all over again for the next pokemon specimen.
What are we looking for?:
Specifically, I want to stress the importance of the balance between creativity and viability when picking a set to post for the Pokemon in question. There's a very fine line between a "creative" set and a "gimmick", and this project is not meant to produce gimmicks, rather emphasize the ability to think outside the box when using a specific Pokemon in order to maximize it's potential. Having said that, I would also like to deviate from simple one move / item changes. For example, using Lum Berry over Life Orb on an SD Virizion does nothing to show any untapped potential Virizion has because we already have a basic understanding of what SD Virizion is and does, it's just now better at dealing with status and has less power. The same goes for using Iron Head over Stone Edge on SD Cobalion, it doesn't yield productive discussion or results for the project. I am looking for sets that test what we think we know about checks or counters, so-called standards, and what it means to be viable. Maybe a particular option for a Pokemon looks inferior at first glance for that particular pokemon, but dig deeper and try and find what it might mean in the big picture, for the entire team.
Now, a note with ORAS; I will be allowing the same Pokemon that were discussed and voted on in the XY NBT (found here and here), as well as Pokemon that weren't discussed / gained new viability with ORAS. However, while not a problem for our NBT specifically, I saw that the RU one / some other projects across the site has people reserving (i was a victim of this at one point haha), but reservations will not be allowed in this thread. It clogs it up, so either write it on the spot or don't write it at all.
That's about it! Our first test subject will be...
Snorlax
The Next Best Thing
What is this?:
I for one, along with many others I'm sure, feel as though there is some untapped power within the UU environment. There is substantial evidence for this idea in the form of one commonality for most tiers, UU included: there always seems to be one or more new-fangled, hyped up sets that weren't originally main-stay or seen as "viable" by the community, but somehow has taken the metagame by storm. This can be seen in DPP OU (with Special Lucario transitioning to SD Lucario, Heatran eventually running items other than Choice Scarf, and the influx of ChestoRest Kingdra) in ADV (with the vaunted TyraniBoah now becoming almost an urban myth in comparison to Special and DD Tyranitar, and the increasing popularity of SupeRachi) and in BW OU (with the advent of SubSalac Terrakion, SubDisable Gengar, and ChestoRest Volcarona). Yes, some of these sets may have been found early on with respect to the creation of the tier or fairly recently, the point is, though, that there seems to be an endless supply of effective and potent sets out there yet to be discovered, especially factoring in metagame swings and the possible tier shifts. The purpose of this project will be to systematically subject each and every UU pokemon to a collective body of research in an attempt to uncover these "hidden gems", so to speak, and hopefully spark some creativity throughout the UU community.
The Process:
Each week, I will choose a different UU Pokemon, sometimes chosen by random, sometimes chosen by curiousity, of which participants will try to personally create a new set for that is not already on-site or in the process of being put on-site. Participants will be given 5 days to create their set, with discussion about the particular sets being promoted throughout, and on the 6th and 7th day of the week, a vote will be held to choose which user's set represented the most creative and simultaneously competivitely viable set to utilize in the current UU metagame. Once the votes are tallied and a winner is crowned, the set will be archived in the OP and the process will start all over again for the next pokemon specimen.
What are we looking for?:
Specifically, I want to stress the importance of the balance between creativity and viability when picking a set to post for the Pokemon in question. There's a very fine line between a "creative" set and a "gimmick", and this project is not meant to produce gimmicks, rather emphasize the ability to think outside the box when using a specific Pokemon in order to maximize it's potential. Having said that, I would also like to deviate from simple one move / item changes. For example, using Lum Berry over Life Orb on an SD Virizion does nothing to show any untapped potential Virizion has because we already have a basic understanding of what SD Virizion is and does, it's just now better at dealing with status and has less power. The same goes for using Iron Head over Stone Edge on SD Cobalion, it doesn't yield productive discussion or results for the project. I am looking for sets that test what we think we know about checks or counters, so-called standards, and what it means to be viable. Maybe a particular option for a Pokemon looks inferior at first glance for that particular pokemon, but dig deeper and try and find what it might mean in the big picture, for the entire team.
Now, a note with ORAS; I will be allowing the same Pokemon that were discussed and voted on in the XY NBT (found here and here), as well as Pokemon that weren't discussed / gained new viability with ORAS. However, while not a problem for our NBT specifically, I saw that the RU one / some other projects across the site has people reserving (i was a victim of this at one point haha), but reservations will not be allowed in this thread. It clogs it up, so either write it on the spot or don't write it at all.
That's about it! Our first test subject will be...
Snorlax
Metric - WU Refresh Mega Pidgeot
Pidgeot @ Pidgeotite
Ability: Keen Eye
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Work Up
- Hurricane
- Roost
- Refresh
The objective of this set was to poop on the stall cores that started to pervade the higher ends of the ladder. The idea is to boost 'n roost up while shrugging off status usually burns and toxics with Refresh, making Pidgeot a very self-sufficient and dangerous sweeper.
It goes without saying that strong flying resists stop this cold, so that's where team support comes into play. I started using it in conjunction with CM Heat Wave Sigilyph to bait out and weaken Jesus bird's counters, but naturally there's other ways you can aid it.
Lastly, a replay of the set in action: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-189595201
Hikari - Tormentdile
Krookodile (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 96 Def / 160 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Torment
- Substitute
- Knock Off
- Taunt / Protect
Get a free sub on something like Forretress or Umbreon, and then proceed to give troubles to your opponent. If you are running Taunt, Pokemon like Florgres, Mono Attacking Cune and Chesnaught lose against this set. Torment them the turn they try to break the Sub and then use Taunt to stop them from using their non-offensive moves (Wish, Aromatherapy, Spikes, Calm Mind, Synthesis), Knock Off their item or get another Substitute. Krookodile will force all these Pokemon to switch out or Struggle to death sooner or later, this combined with Knock Off + hypothetical hazard can cause a lot of damage. Protect can be used over Taunt to make this set more effective against offensive teams, but Taunt is much more helpful against most things.
Hazards support is a must for this set, specially Toxic Spikes, because they make this set much more deadly.
I'm a bit unsure about the EVs. Adding attack EVs is kinda pointless on this set, so I decided to invest on bulk and speed. The Spe EVs allow Krook to outpace Timid Chandelure (great chances of OHKOing with Knock Off even with 0 investment) which seemed like a decent benchmark, and I guess Infiltrator Chandelure might be a threat. The rest goes in HP and Def to create bulkier Subs.
Bulky Set Up Sweeper Mega Alakazam (isn't legit anymore cause of bans and such, but keeping it here for posterity) - Vaporeon for Ubers
Alakazam-Mega @ Alakazite
Ability: Trace
EVs: 252 HP / 40 Def / 216 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: NaN Atk
- Barrier
- Calm Mind
- Recover
- Psyshock
Mega Alakazam, with its naturally high speed and special attack and solid movepool, makes for a surprisingly threatening bulky setup sweeper. The EV spread allows Mega Alakazam to outspeed everything up to jolly Mega Beedrill (which is becoming more popular to outspeed modest Mega Alakazam). The rest is invested into HP and physical defense to maximize bulk. Even without special attack investment, Mega Alakazam hits 386 SpA, higher than a fully invested neutral nature regular Alakazam, so it still hits like a truck. The EV spread also allows Mega Alakazam to survive a u-turn from Mienshao 100% of the time, and a u-turn from Darmanitam 68.7% of the time, so it's not the frailest thing out there. The idea of the set is to wait for your opponent's dark type pokemon to get taken out before setting up and sweeping (pairing Mega Alakazam with a mon like Lucario works well from my experience). After a boost or two, not much stops this monster from plowing through the opposing team.
The set in action: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-198200349
(Wasn't the most competitive match, but it gives you an idea of how the set can be supported and used effectively)
SubToxic Kyurem - azureleaf17
Kyurem @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 100 Def / 160 SpDef
Careful Nature
- Substitute
- Toxic
- Dragon Tail / Ice Beam
- Roost
Though its typing is extremely poor for a defensive Pokemon, Bulky SubToxic Kyurem makes the most of its 125/90/90 bulk and Pressure to aid stall teams. The combination of Substitute, Leftovers, and recovery makes it very difficult for an opponent to wear down Kyurem. Toxic is a move that further wears down the opponent, and Dragon Tail helps with stall teams that stack hazards, although Ice Beam can be used with a Calm nature in order to better handle Fairy-types. Speaking of which, the EVs spread is so that Florges, the most common Fairy-type in UU, will not 2HKO a Kyurem at full health, meaning that Moonblast and Heal Bell can be PP stalled with good play and Kyurem can come out on top one-on-one. EVs can be diverted from Defense into Speed or its offenses, but this Kyurem is not designed to hit things hard. Teammates on stall that can handle Poison-, Steel-, and Fairy-type opponents are appreciated.
Offensive Milotic - Vaporeon for Ubers
Pidgeot @ Pidgeotite
Ability: Keen Eye
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Work Up
- Hurricane
- Roost
- Refresh
The objective of this set was to poop on the stall cores that started to pervade the higher ends of the ladder. The idea is to boost 'n roost up while shrugging off status usually burns and toxics with Refresh, making Pidgeot a very self-sufficient and dangerous sweeper.
It goes without saying that strong flying resists stop this cold, so that's where team support comes into play. I started using it in conjunction with CM Heat Wave Sigilyph to bait out and weaken Jesus bird's counters, but naturally there's other ways you can aid it.
Lastly, a replay of the set in action: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-189595201
Hikari - Tormentdile
Krookodile (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 96 Def / 160 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Torment
- Substitute
- Knock Off
- Taunt / Protect
Get a free sub on something like Forretress or Umbreon, and then proceed to give troubles to your opponent. If you are running Taunt, Pokemon like Florgres, Mono Attacking Cune and Chesnaught lose against this set. Torment them the turn they try to break the Sub and then use Taunt to stop them from using their non-offensive moves (Wish, Aromatherapy, Spikes, Calm Mind, Synthesis), Knock Off their item or get another Substitute. Krookodile will force all these Pokemon to switch out or Struggle to death sooner or later, this combined with Knock Off + hypothetical hazard can cause a lot of damage. Protect can be used over Taunt to make this set more effective against offensive teams, but Taunt is much more helpful against most things.
Hazards support is a must for this set, specially Toxic Spikes, because they make this set much more deadly.
I'm a bit unsure about the EVs. Adding attack EVs is kinda pointless on this set, so I decided to invest on bulk and speed. The Spe EVs allow Krook to outpace Timid Chandelure (great chances of OHKOing with Knock Off even with 0 investment) which seemed like a decent benchmark, and I guess Infiltrator Chandelure might be a threat. The rest goes in HP and Def to create bulkier Subs.
Bulky Set Up Sweeper Mega Alakazam (isn't legit anymore cause of bans and such, but keeping it here for posterity) - Vaporeon for Ubers
Alakazam-Mega @ Alakazite
Ability: Trace
EVs: 252 HP / 40 Def / 216 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: NaN Atk
- Barrier
- Calm Mind
- Recover
- Psyshock
Mega Alakazam, with its naturally high speed and special attack and solid movepool, makes for a surprisingly threatening bulky setup sweeper. The EV spread allows Mega Alakazam to outspeed everything up to jolly Mega Beedrill (which is becoming more popular to outspeed modest Mega Alakazam). The rest is invested into HP and physical defense to maximize bulk. Even without special attack investment, Mega Alakazam hits 386 SpA, higher than a fully invested neutral nature regular Alakazam, so it still hits like a truck. The EV spread also allows Mega Alakazam to survive a u-turn from Mienshao 100% of the time, and a u-turn from Darmanitam 68.7% of the time, so it's not the frailest thing out there. The idea of the set is to wait for your opponent's dark type pokemon to get taken out before setting up and sweeping (pairing Mega Alakazam with a mon like Lucario works well from my experience). After a boost or two, not much stops this monster from plowing through the opposing team.
The set in action: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-198200349
(Wasn't the most competitive match, but it gives you an idea of how the set can be supported and used effectively)
SubToxic Kyurem - azureleaf17
Kyurem @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 100 Def / 160 SpDef
Careful Nature
- Substitute
- Toxic
- Dragon Tail / Ice Beam
- Roost
Though its typing is extremely poor for a defensive Pokemon, Bulky SubToxic Kyurem makes the most of its 125/90/90 bulk and Pressure to aid stall teams. The combination of Substitute, Leftovers, and recovery makes it very difficult for an opponent to wear down Kyurem. Toxic is a move that further wears down the opponent, and Dragon Tail helps with stall teams that stack hazards, although Ice Beam can be used with a Calm nature in order to better handle Fairy-types. Speaking of which, the EVs spread is so that Florges, the most common Fairy-type in UU, will not 2HKO a Kyurem at full health, meaning that Moonblast and Heal Bell can be PP stalled with good play and Kyurem can come out on top one-on-one. EVs can be diverted from Defense into Speed or its offenses, but this Kyurem is not designed to hit things hard. Teammates on stall that can handle Poison-, Steel-, and Fairy-type opponents are appreciated.
Offensive Milotic - Vaporeon for Ubers
Milotic, in my opinion, is a pokemon that is largely outclassed in UU. Vaporeon works better as a bulky wall, as it gets access to wish and other support moves to help your team. Suicune works better as a set up sweeper, as it has better overall bulk and pressure to stall things it cannot kill. However, what Milotic has over other bulky waters is Competitive and a unique speed tier (Gyarados shares it, but it's in OU), which brings me to
Offensive Competitive Milotic
Milotic @ Life Orb
Ability: Competitive
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: NaN Atk / 30 SpA
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Electric]
- Recover
With a decent base 100 SpA and base 81 Spe, Milotic has the tools it needs to become an offensive threat. SpA and Spe are maxed out to deal the most damage while outspeeding as many things as possible. I opted for timid over modest, as timid allows you to outspeed everything base 80 and below as well as getting the jump on base 92 or below 252 Spe neutral natured pokemon like Adamant Lucario and Modest Roserade. Hydro pump provides a powerful STAB attack that deals massive damage to anything that doesn't resist it. Ice beam hits the grass and dragon type pokemon that like to switch into Milotic. HP Electric rounds off the coverage by allowing Milotic to hit opposing bulky waters, notably Empoleon. Life orb is used to give Milotic an extra bump in power, and recover provides sustainability and compensates for the life orb recoil. And if you switch into a defog, you get an instant Nasty Plot boost, and this in combination with good bulk and power makes Milotic a force to be reckoned with.
Offensive Competitive Milotic
Milotic @ Life Orb
Ability: Competitive
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: NaN Atk / 30 SpA
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Electric]
- Recover
With a decent base 100 SpA and base 81 Spe, Milotic has the tools it needs to become an offensive threat. SpA and Spe are maxed out to deal the most damage while outspeeding as many things as possible. I opted for timid over modest, as timid allows you to outspeed everything base 80 and below as well as getting the jump on base 92 or below 252 Spe neutral natured pokemon like Adamant Lucario and Modest Roserade. Hydro pump provides a powerful STAB attack that deals massive damage to anything that doesn't resist it. Ice beam hits the grass and dragon type pokemon that like to switch into Milotic. HP Electric rounds off the coverage by allowing Milotic to hit opposing bulky waters, notably Empoleon. Life orb is used to give Milotic an extra bump in power, and recover provides sustainability and compensates for the life orb recoil. And if you switch into a defog, you get an instant Nasty Plot boost, and this in combination with good bulk and power makes Milotic a force to be reckoned with.
252 SpA Life Orb Milotic Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Lucario: 261-308 (92.8 - 109.6%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Milotic Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Roserade: 205-242 (79.1 - 93.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Milotic Hidden Power Electric vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Empoleon: 203-239 (54.5 - 64.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Milotic Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Umbreon: 231-274 (58.6 - 69.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Milotic Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Roserade: 205-242 (79.1 - 93.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Milotic Hidden Power Electric vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Empoleon: 203-239 (54.5 - 64.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Milotic Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Umbreon: 231-274 (58.6 - 69.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Last edited:
