ORAS The Next Best Thing...: Snorlax - Voting

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Hey, just posted this in the Created/Underrated thread.

Salamence @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Hydro Pump
- Fire Blast
- Iron Tail

Salamence is way more known as a physical attacker, so even though he has base 110 Special Attack and an awesome movepool for it (almost better than his physical movepool, really) nobody ever expects it. So you'll find yourself popping a LOT of Arcanines and Hippowdons in the face with Hydro Pump and Forretresses with Fire Blast. Draco is your only real weapon against bulky waters, and it does just over 50% to CroCune, so that puts it on the back foot if it switches in unexpectedly, giving you some time to bring another Pokemon in to handle it. Iron Tail hits Fairies hard. Granbull can survive two Iron Tails if you switch in, but if it switches in on either Fire Blast or Hydro Pump it gets 2HKO'd anyway.

Debating switching Fire Blast to Flamethrower and/or Iron Tail to Steel Wing. You're sacrificing a LOT of power for accuracy, so I don't know. Someone else try it.
 
Salamence @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Hone Claws
- Dragon Rush
- Fire Blast
- Iron Tail

Instead of sweeping, this Salamence set aims to break down walls to make room for its teammates to sweep. It can do enormous damage to most walls and it's great for letting something like Choice Scarf Heracross come in afterwards and take advantage of holes in teams. Hone Claws is amazing for boosting the accuracy of its three otherwise-unreliable attacking moves. Dragon Rush (100BP) is noticeably stronger than Dragon Claw, but doesn't have the negative side effect of Outrage, and has its accuracy boosted to 100% at +1. Iron Tail and Fire Blast are also 100% accurate after a boost.
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Salamence Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Florges: 400-473 (111.1 - 131.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Salamence Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Aromatisse: 385-455 (94.8 - 112%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
4 SpA Life Orb Salamence Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 240 SpD Filter Mega Aggron: 154-183 (44.7 - 53.1%) -- 85.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Salamence Dragon Rush vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 214-253 (52.9 - 62.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 

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Salamence @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 232 Def / 28 Spe
Impish Nature
- Defog / Fire Blast / Aerial Ace
- Dragon Tail
- Toxic
- Roost

Fatmence. I've been playing with this a lot lately on balance and stall. It's a tremendous switch-in to a lot of major threats, able to switch in on wallbreakers like CB Hera with impunity thanks to Intimidate, typing and solid 95/80/80 bulk. It can even comfortably survive an Adamant CB Stone Edge:

-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Heracross Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 232+ Def Salamence: 198-234 (50.3 - 59.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Dragon Tail and Toxic are pretty much staples, allowing you to phaze, shuffle the team and hit the opponent's usual counters with status. Roost is of course a must - while Wish is an option, the immediate recovery of Roost is needed to combat powerful attackers. The last move is up in the air depending on what your team needs. Aerial Ace has unfortunately low base power, but if you are using Fatmence as your main Fighting check, it has excellent coverage and it gives you a way to attack fighting types without activating Guts. Defog is an option as well, if your team has a secondary way of dealing with fighting types but needs hazard support. Fire Blast or Flamethrower is also an option in that last slot, able to hit common Mence switch-ins and Toxic-immune foes such as Forretress and MAggron while still threatening Heracross. If using Fire Blast, consider switching to a Bold nature.

EVs are fairly simple; max Defense with a bit of Speed creep for Honch and the things that like to creep Honch. As mentioned above, you may want to switch to Bold when using Fire Blast/Flamethrower. (That said, even with an Impish nature, Flamethrower is a guaranteed 2HKO on Heracross after rocks.)

I'll try to get some replays with this thing to add in, but I'm using it (or a slight variation thereof) on two teams right now, and it is definitely worth using.
 

Salamence @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 28 Atk / 84 Def / 148 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Aerial Ace
- Earthquake
- Roost
- Refresh

If you want to use bulkmence do it the right way. With this much speed you hit 300 (just over Entei) while still maintaining good bulk. Refresh allows you to screw Entei even more. If Entei/Heracross predicts you and clicks Stone Edge you still survive (even after rocks) and start roosting off the damage. AA despite being a weak move overall it is powerful enough after STAB to take out fighting types you meant to counter. EQ is for steels mainly Lucario since it is something you suppose to beat also it hits Entei for much better damage and gives you decent neutral coverage. 28 Atk is to guarantee the KO on Lucario after a LO recoil (has ~50% chance to KO at full) while rest goes to HP and Def.

-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Heracross Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 84 Def Salamence: 252-298 (64.1 - 75.8%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 84 Def Salamence: 238-282 (60.5 - 71.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

28 Atk Salamence Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Entei: 218-258 (58.7 - 69.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
28 Atk Salamence Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lucario: 256-302 (91.1 - 107.4%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
28 Atk Salamence Aerial Ace vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mienshao: 260-308 (95.9 - 113.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
Not calcing vs Hera for obvious reasons.
 
Hone Claws BulkyMence

Salamence @ Leftovers
ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 236 Def / 24 Spd
move 1: Hone Claws
move 2: Dragon Tail
move 3: Roost
move 4: Iron Tail / Toxic / Earthquake
ability: Intimidate
item: Leftovers
evs: 248 HP / 236 Def / 24 Spe
nature: Impish

This set tries to combine the longevity and support of BulkyMence with the power that Salamence is known for. Hone Claws is the signature move of this set, boosting Dragon Tail to perfect accuracy and Iron Tail nearly there. The neat thing is that with Dragon Tail, Steel-types are somewhat less of an issue, seeing that you can phase them out and stack hazard damage on them. Roost for recovery, and the last slot depends on what you want to hit. Iron Tail is the best option, as it hits Fairies and has both its power and shaky accuracy boosted by Hone Claws. Toxic works if you need a status spreader, and Earthquake if you really hate Steel-types (though as stated above, Dragon Tail phazes them out, and Fairy-types completely wall you if you do not have Iron Tail or Toxic).
 

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SubSalac Mence



Salamence @ Salac Berry
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Iron Tail
- Dragon Rush
- Hone Claws
- Substitute

This Salamence can clean pretty well against balance and offense teams if given the opportunity after Steel-types and quicker scarfers are removed from the playing field, Dragon Rush is akin to middle ground between Dragon Claw and Outrage as you can get the damage but no confusion, not to mention an additional flinch chance. Iron Tail not missing is also a huge relief. This Mence sets up a lot easier on a lot of the bulkier mons as it isnt as scared of status with sub. Mence can also set up on CroCune easily, as even +1 Scald needs a very high roll to break the sub.

+1 4 SpA Suicune Scald vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Salamence: 72-84 (21.6 - 25.3%) -- 0.1% chance to 4HKO

Edit: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uususpecttest-213988847 Replay of sweep using said set
 
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CounterBoom Snorlax



Snorlax @ Custap Berry
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 Atk / 152 Def / 104 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Counter
- Self-Destruct
- Body Slam
- Earthquake / Crunch

With the newly available Custap Berry, Snorlax can pull off an old set used to lure in physical attackers, KO them with Counter (their attacks will hopefully bring Snorlax to the Custap range), then self-destructing on the next mon as the Custap Berry activates. Body Slam is Snorlax's STAB move of choice (apart from Self-Destruct) as it has a nice 30% chance of paralysis inducing. The last move is used to deal with specially based mons who resist Self-Destruct such as Chandelure, Calm Mind Cobalion, Empoleon (watch out for Scald burns) and others.

The given EV spread is simple: 252 Atk EVs with an adamant nature are to maximize the damage output, 152 Def EVs are used to prevent being 2HKOed by Jolly M-Aerodactyl (in fact, Snorlax can come in on a predicted Stone Edge, take another hit and OHKO with Counter, which no standard Snorlax could ever possibly dream of doing) and the rest is dumped in the SpD stat to better tank special attacks. More Def EVs can be used to avoid certain OHKOs/2HKOs, but Snorlax will then miss out on his great special bulk.
252 Atk Mega Aerodactyl Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 152 Def Snorlax: 195-229 (42.2 - 49.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (in Custap range after two hits, Counter OHKOs)

+1 252 Atk Salamence Outrage vs. 0 HP / 152 Def Snorlax: 349-412 (75.7 - 89.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (in Custap range after one hit, Counter OHKOes)

252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 152 Def Snorlax: 190-224 (41.2 - 48.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (in Custap range after two hits, Counter OHKOes)

252 Atk Krookodile Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 152 Def Snorlax: 177-208 (38.3 - 45.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (in Custap range after two hits, Counter OHKOes)

252 Atk Cobalion Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 152 Def Snorlax: 354-416 (76.7 - 90.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (in Custap range after one hit, Counter OHKOes

There are many other examples, but I'll leave it at that. Also, STAB Self-Destruct OHKOes a lot of mons in UU (or at least has a great chance to do so).
252+ Atk Snorlax Self-Destruct vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 384-453 (116 - 136.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

-1 252+ Atk Snorlax Self-Destruct vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 255-301 (77 - 90.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Snorlax Self-Destruct vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Crobat: 384-453 (102.9 - 121.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Snorlax Self-Destruct vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Heracross: 402-474 (133.5 - 157.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Snorlax Self-Destruct vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 348-411 (107 - 126.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Snorlax Self-Destruct vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Krookodile: 384-453 (115.6 - 136.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO (Snorlax is helpless against physically defensive variants though)

252+ Atk Snorlax Self-Destruct vs. 128 HP / 0 Def Nidoqueen: 358-423 (101.4 - 119.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Snorlax Self-Destruct vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Pidgeot: 382-450 (124.4 - 146.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Snorlax Self-Destruct vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Shaymin: 319-376 (93.5 - 110.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Snorlax Self-Destruct vs. 132 HP / 0 Def Mega Ampharos: 306-361 (86.4 - 101.9%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Snorlax Self-Destruct vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Florges: 291-343 (80.8 - 95.2%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (guarenteed OHKO after SR if Calm)

252+ Atk Snorlax Self-Destruct vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rotom-C: 301-355 (99 - 116.7%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Snorlax Self-Destruct vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Darmanitan: 514-606 (146.4 - 172.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Snorlax Self-Destruct vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Kyurem: 348-411 (85.9 - 101.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Snorlax Self-Destruct vs. 172 HP / 0 Def Machamp: 384-453 (105.4 - 124.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO (beware of Bullet Punch, even though it only deals 12.1 - 14.3% to Snorlax)

252+ Atk Snorlax Self-Destruct vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Nidoking: 393-463 (129.7 - 152.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Snorlax Self-Destruct vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Sceptile: 405-477 (144.1 - 169.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Snorlax Self-Destruct vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Haxorus: 348-411 (118.3 - 139.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Snorlax Self-Destruct vs. 80 HP / 0 Def Porygon-Z: 427-504 (129 - 152.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Snorlax Self-Destruct vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Slurpuff: 361-426 (117.9 - 139.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Snorlax Self-Destruct vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Stoutland: 348-411 (111.8 - 132.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

From S to B, I left out some mons that are OHKOed by Self-Destruct because they have priority (i.e. Infernape), they are most of the time (if not always) carrying Focus Sash and/or Protect (i.e. Alakazam and M-Beedrill) or they can't even deal up to 25% to Snorlax (i.e. Tentacruel).

Fun fact: you can use Gluttony instead of Thick Fat as your ability if you REALLY want to use your Custap Berry only after half of your HP is gone and unexpectedly explode on your opponent's face, but I wouldn't recommend as Thick Fat is just way too good to ignore.

Edit: Included Self-Destruct calcs.
 
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Vapo

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PhaseLax



Snorlax @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 144 HP / 240 Def / 124 SpD
Careful Nature
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Body Slam
- Whirlwind

This is a cool set that was used a lot in past gens that I think can still be effective in the current meta. The set works best with hazards support, as it allows Snorlax to rack up hazard damage by forcing switches on the majority of special attackers in the tier. Rest/talk is Snorlax's best means of recovery, keeping it in action as long as possible. Body Slam, even with little investment, hits hard coming off Snorlax's base 110 Attack, meaning Snorlax won't be extremely passive like most walls. It also provides utility for the team in its paralyzation chance, allowing Snorlax to cripple common switchins like Mienshao and Aerodactyl. While Counter might have fit in the last slot, allowing Snorlax to score surprise KO's on unsuspecting physical attackers, I feel Blissey pulls off this set better, having higher HP and more reliable recovery, allowing it to better abuse Counter. Instead, I opted for Whirlwind, which prevents Snorlax from being set up fodder and helps hazards whittle away at your opponent's team. The EV's are an adaptation of the standard CurseLax spread. 144 HP and 124 SpDef with a Careful Nature allows Snorlax to avoid being 2HKO'd by every relevant unboosted special attacker in the tier (including Aura Sphere Blastoise-Mega and Focus Blast Alakazam). The rest of the EV's are placed into Def, maximizing Snorlax's overall bulk and compensating partially for the lack of Curse, allowing it to survive two Choice Band Flare Blitzes from Darmanitan.

252+ SpA Mega Launcher Mega Blastoise Aura Sphere vs. 144 HP / 124+ SpD Snorlax: 222-262 (44.6 - 52.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Alakazam Focus Blast vs. 144 HP / 124+ SpD Snorlax: 204-240 (41 - 48.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Choice Band Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 144 HP / 240 Def Thick Fat Snorlax: 211-249 (42.4 - 50.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

200 SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 144 HP / 124+ SpD Snorlax: 195-230 (39.2 - 46.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

56 Atk Life Orb Hydreigon Superpower vs. 144 HP / 240 Def Snorlax: 257-304 (51.7 - 61.1%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

(even mixed LO Hydreigon needs two max rolls to KO Snorlax from full)
 
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