-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
ORAS Ubers Analysis Index (See Post #394)
- Thread starter Fireburn
- Start date
Giratina-A is back up for grabs if anyone wants it, if theres no interest by monday i'll probably have to grab it myself. as a reminder for those that still have analyses that need checks or things done, keep on top of them. dont be shy to ask qc members for checks either. we are almost done with our oras stuff (unless there are necessary revamps) and i dont wanna see this lookin like xy where we have like a page of unfinished analyses when the next game releases.
Thugly Duckling
I play TCG now
With approval from sweep, revamping Zekrom with a Shuca Berry + Hone Claws set
Smeargle is terrible and outclassed because unlike the other suicide hazards setters, it labors to keep up hazards against a Defog Arceus, or a defensive Mega Salamence with more than 274 Speed for that matter. By contrast, Cloyster has Shell Smash and Skill Link Icicle Spear to pressure all common Defog users barring Water Arceus (which it still gets 1 hazard on), Greninja has 123 Speed and therefore access to a much faster Taunt, Deoxys-S also has a fast Taunt, and Scolipede has Speed Boost and Endeavor to punish any Defog attempts while still guaranteeing at least one hazard. Scoli also gets Pin Missile for Lati@s. Smeargle cannot do any of that. The best it can do is slow Arceus down with Nuzzle, then Taunt it, but two turns is a lot for something as frail as Smeargle. You're never getting more than one hazard with this vs. a competent player, and if you status something with Spore or Nuzzle, you might not get any hazards at all.
Also, Smeargle has to dedicate one of those four fabled slots to Magic Coat or it gets boned very badly by opposing Deo-S / Greninja. Unless you can fit both Taunt AND Magic Coat onto the same set, you're set-up bait for anything with Substitute (like Hypnosis Mega Gengar or SubDD Mega Salamence for example), which can and will lead if they see their opponent has a Smeargle on their team.
Smash Pass is not very good in a metagame where Lugia and specially defensive Primal Groudon are everywhere, not to mention prankster Thunder Wave from Klefki.
You might want to provide a counterargument (or any evidence whatsoever) of Smeargle's viability in Ubers if you want it to be revisited so badly. Sorry. (insert smiley face here)
Also, Smeargle has to dedicate one of those four fabled slots to Magic Coat or it gets boned very badly by opposing Deo-S / Greninja. Unless you can fit both Taunt AND Magic Coat onto the same set, you're set-up bait for anything with Substitute (like Hypnosis Mega Gengar or SubDD Mega Salamence for example), which can and will lead if they see their opponent has a Smeargle on their team.
Smash Pass is not very good in a metagame where Lugia and specially defensive Primal Groudon are everywhere, not to mention prankster Thunder Wave from Klefki.
You might want to provide a counterargument (or any evidence whatsoever) of Smeargle's viability in Ubers if you want it to be revisited so badly. Sorry. (insert smiley face here)
Ok. First off all hazard leads are really bad right now (if the cant beat MSableye) and could all be rejected imo.
Smash pass on the other hand is very effective, I have not played that match lately so I dont have much material but I will link my game vs Astounded for last sundays other tier tour or what its name was. And I can see that you have not tested smash pass as the two best receivers both destroy the mons you mentioned thanks to immunity to t-wave and in Diancies case immune to phazing. (I guess Lugia might be able to handle P-Don but thats why you have multiple receivers).
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-ubers-74509
Sweep You dont have to be sorry, I have no problem defending my point
Smash pass on the other hand is very effective, I have not played that match lately so I dont have much material but I will link my game vs Astounded for last sundays other tier tour or what its name was. And I can see that you have not tested smash pass as the two best receivers both destroy the mons you mentioned thanks to immunity to t-wave and in Diancies case immune to phazing. (I guess Lugia might be able to handle P-Don but thats why you have multiple receivers).
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-ubers-74509
Sweep You dont have to be sorry, I have no problem defending my point
Lugia handles every receiver barring Kyurem-W and Mega Diancie so long Multiscale is intact, neither of which are sweeping balance or stall at +2, and Smash Pass has an awful time trying to set up SR AND get off a successful pass in the same match.
I don't base QC opinion on theorymon and will happily playtest Smeargle at some point soon. Hell, I was one of the main proponents of Dialga getting a Smash Pass recipient set last generation and begged Anik to write that set up. Not sold on SmashPass this generation however, especially since its so called "best" recipients cannot hold White Herb and are therefore especially vulnerable to one turn sleeps.
I don't base QC opinion on theorymon and will happily playtest Smeargle at some point soon. Hell, I was one of the main proponents of Dialga getting a Smash Pass recipient set last generation and begged Anik to write that set up. Not sold on SmashPass this generation however, especially since its so called "best" recipients cannot hold White Herb and are therefore especially vulnerable to one turn sleeps.
"Lugia handles every recipient barring the mandatory one"
After that it sweeps teams without bulky waterceus/groundceus, the only two formes that can hit back for the OHKO. Even then Pdon can run dtail/pblades/fire punch/stone edge as a recipient and bypass its main problem in lugia and destroy the arceus formes diancie can't handle. So there are some ways recipients beats stall. Against balance you probably autowin with smashpass, at least from what I've noted.
Yeah kebabe is right, it's 100000x more viable than omastar and just as viable as any niche suicide spiker as far as im concerned, but I doubt he wants to write the analysis and no one else actually has the understanding of this mon so this debate is probably useless anyway.
After that it sweeps teams without bulky waterceus/groundceus, the only two formes that can hit back for the OHKO. Even then Pdon can run dtail/pblades/fire punch/stone edge as a recipient and bypass its main problem in lugia and destroy the arceus formes diancie can't handle. So there are some ways recipients beats stall. Against balance you probably autowin with smashpass, at least from what I've noted.
Yeah kebabe is right, it's 100000x more viable than omastar and just as viable as any niche suicide spiker as far as im concerned, but I doubt he wants to write the analysis and no one else actually has the understanding of this mon so this debate is probably useless anyway.
yea it doesn't appear anyone is gonna write up something for this anyway. unless someone wants to take smeargle and is willing to write a detailed skeleton about it, all discussion on smeargle stops here
edit: dragon tail on primal groudon is cool, support arceus formes can sometimes OHKO diancie with judgment at -1 (guaranteed if rocks are up but for sake of argument i'll assume they are not for obvious reasons)
note: tested this on "dracomaster armon" and balance is all it beats; stall is very very annoying as support arceus water + mega sableye + lugia are all VERY common on it and HO wins as soon as it gets a hazard or taunts smeargle; you can run magic coat over taunt but then roar kyogre wins and magic coat is gimmicky anyway. fireburn and dice are also opposed to smeargle. sorry! i'm fine giving this a second look if some puts up a skeleton but otherwise, stop. Also, bronzong was removed from the rejected list and anyone is free to write a skeleton for it.
edit: dragon tail on primal groudon is cool, support arceus formes can sometimes OHKO diancie with judgment at -1 (guaranteed if rocks are up but for sake of argument i'll assume they are not for obvious reasons)
note: tested this on "dracomaster armon" and balance is all it beats; stall is very very annoying as support arceus water + mega sableye + lugia are all VERY common on it and HO wins as soon as it gets a hazard or taunts smeargle; you can run magic coat over taunt but then roar kyogre wins and magic coat is gimmicky anyway. fireburn and dice are also opposed to smeargle. sorry! i'm fine giving this a second look if some puts up a skeleton but otherwise, stop. Also, bronzong was removed from the rejected list and anyone is free to write a skeleton for it.
steelphoenix is officially a QC member again!
Ok I would like to reserve Smeargle and Bronzong and I'm pretty sure i can convince the esteemed qc members that both are viable in the analysis of each.
edit: if I can only reserve one because i'm not a badge holder which is ridiculous since I don't think badge holders are any better than me in anything I reserve only smeargle.
edit: if I can only reserve one because i'm not a badge holder which is ridiculous since I don't think badge holders are any better than me in anything I reserve only smeargle.
Last edited:
the whole badge holder thing is not doubting a possible writer's meta knowledge, its so that we can see that a dude has a decent hold on how to write an analysis. we have let non-badgeholders take badgeholder analyses and reserve two in the past, if the qc team feels that the writer is trusted as much as a badgeholder would be (see: steelphoenix). you can fall under this category soon enough, but we have to see how your first analysis goes. its standard policy across the site.
I trust Outrage with those two. If he has questions about the format and such, he can always ask me on skype after all. I say let him have them.