Gen 6 ORAS Ubers Viability Ranking Thread

[sammao]

Sooooo, as we are discussing B rank, I think two monsters probably need to move out, they are Gothitelle and Arceus-Electric.
Gothitelle just sucks these days. what does that thing even do? Trap a Latis? It will get mauled by Draco Meteor. Trap an Arceus form? Maaaaybe but they aren't as common/important these day since physical Arceus form(notably Earth and Normal) is getting more common, you can't trap Ghost and Dark, and Water and Grass dropped a lot in usage. I think its only real niche is to trap Lugia but that's about it. It literally loses to everything else as it has low base stat. I personally would even dump it to D, it is just that bad, but I guess a C- rank sounds more fair.

Arceus-Electric also loses a lot of its former glory. Groudon-Primal is on every team ready to destroy it, I guess you can try to use earth power, but you lose hard to SalaQuazza, Arceus Ground, Giratina-O, the lati twin and more. Checking Kyogre isn't as important as it used to be. The fact that earth coverage moves are much more common (Like Earth Power on Arceus-Fairy or Earthquake on Metagross) also does it no favor. And after all that you still have most of the old problems to deal with such as Darkari, Mewtwo, Mega-Gengar (it will at least stop ur sweep with Dbond), Tyranitar, Blissey, wasting your Arceus-slot, and so on. Checking Ho-oh is still cool though but you should consider Arceus-Rock first most of the time as it also resist Fire. A C+ seems more appropriate.

EDIT: Forgot to mention Excadrill too, it should also leave B just because weather is very difficult to maintain now and its Sand Sweeper set isn't very viable. It can still be used as a Bulky Spinner but that's kind of obsolete also with so many good Defog user nowadays. A C rank should be better for it.

 

[Aberforth]

I'd move Greninja down to C rank, and I'd strongly consider moving Kyogre there too.

Greninja is outclassed in every way by the two offensive deoxys's, and is no more durable then them either, considering how hard everything in ubers hits, and also provides set up opportunities for any sweeper that comes in against it. Deoxys-A at least provides a lot of offensive pressure, with offenses equal to that of Mega Rayquaza, not much survives stab psycho boost.

Kyogre was god of X and Y, but right now, the opportunity cost of not using primal Kyogre is huge, along with the huge prominence of primals running around removing its rain and forcing a switch out (groudon), or taking advantage of the fact that its choiced, and coming in on it to KO with thunder (kyogre). Moving it to C is probably a bit much, but B- or C+ seem like the right place for it, in my opinion.

 

[byronthewellwell]

I'd move Greninja down to C rank, and I'd strongly consider moving Kyogre there too.

Greninja is outclassed in every way by the two offensive deoxys's, and is no more durable then them either, considering how hard everything in ubers hits, and also provides set up opportunities for any sweeper that comes in against it. Deoxys-A at least provides a lot of offensive pressure, with offenses equal to that of Mega Rayquaza, not much survives stab psycho boost.

Kyogre was god of X and Y, but right now, the opportunity cost of not using primal Kyogre is huge, along with the huge prominence of primals running around removing its rain and forcing a switch out (groudon), or taking advantage of the fact that its choiced, and coming in on it to KO with thunder (kyogre). Moving it to C is probably a bit much, but B- or C+ seem like the right place for it, in my opinion.

Greninja has access to toxic spikes and anti leads deoxys-a and deoxys-s if running night slash, it really depends on you team, some teams like spikes, while others prefer toxic spikes. I believe Greninja should stay where it is, because it is probably the best tspikes setter atm, because scolipede gets raped by the extremely common giro, which greninja can taunt, and set up a layer of tspikes on, because of the resisted shadow sneak.

 

[SuperWumbology]

I'd move Greninja down to C rank, and I'd strongly consider moving Kyogre there too.

Greninja is outclassed in every way by the two offensive deoxys's, and is no more durable then them either, considering how hard everything in ubers hits, and also provides set up opportunities for any sweeper that comes in against it. Deoxys-A at least provides a lot of offensive pressure, with offenses equal to that of Mega Rayquaza, not much survives stab psycho boost.

I really don't think you know what Greninja even does in Ubers, so let me recap what I literally just said a page ago. Greninja is one of 2 Ubers leads that can set Toxic Spikes, and though the Latis are now eligible Defog users, the usage of Poison-types has decreased. Also, Greninja is the only Ubers viable Pokemon that can spinblock its own hazards (via Protean Shadow Sneak):

252 Atk Protean Greninja Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Deoxys-S: 116-138 (48.1 - 57.2%) -- 87.1% chance to 2HKO

Even though that calc is kinda iffy, Greninja limits Deo-A to only one set of hazards with SSneak, since it can just make itself immune to ESpeed and only let it get one layer of hazards at best. I feel that Greninja really hasn't diminished in its effectiveness other than the introduction of 2 viable Magic Bouncers. Also its not setup bait if it carries Taunt (which it ALWAYS does).

 

[dice]

primal groudon is a better dialga unless u wanna use a pokemon like arc-ground / arc-grass / gliscor that wouldn't work with groudon otherwise so it shouldn't be a

salaamence is good but not splashable so i don't think it's s

klefki being groudon bait makes me less keen on it being a.... any pokemon giving groudon a switch in isn't fantastic and non lati defoggers do exist

 

[shrang]

I really don't think you know what Greninja even does in Ubers, so let me recap what I literally just said a page ago. Greninja is one of 2 Ubers leads that can set Toxic Spikes, and though the Latis are now eligible Defog users, the usage of Poison-types has decreased. Also, Greninja is the only Ubers viable Pokemon that can spinblock its own hazards (via Protean Shadow Sneak):

252 Atk Protean Greninja Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Deoxys-S: 116-138 (48.1 - 57.2%) -- 87.1% chance to 2HKO

Even though that calc is kinda iffy, Greninja limits Deo-A to only one set of hazards with SSneak, since it can just make itself immune to ESpeed and only let it get one layer of hazards at best. I feel that Greninja really hasn't diminished in its effectiveness other than the introduction of 2 viable Magic Bouncers. Also its not setup bait if it carries Taunt (which it ALWAYS does).

Just a small nitpick, Ghostceus can use SR if you really want it to, and is Froslass not usable any more?

 

[Mr.378]

Mega-Altaria got rejected for analysis send it to E-Rank.

 

[PoweredByRevenge]

and is Froslass not usable any more?

I have tried to use froslass in ORAS and it just seemed like a worse Greninja, and it didnt work as well as it used to imo.

 

[Fireburn]

Removed Mega Altaria since its analysis was rejected

E: Also would like to remove Amoonguss and Gastrodon. Amoonguss is a total liability in a metagame with PDon/MMence and lost its Kyogre checking niche since CM Primal sets wreck it. Gastrodon's Kyogre-checking niche has been largely invalidated by Primal Groudon and its virtually impossible to justify using it on a team otherwise.

 

[Ortheore]

Amoonguss is garbage, but I actually think Gastro is alright. Imo it's a much better Ogre counter for stall teams than PDon, simply because of its access to Recover+Lefties, which makes it a shitload more durable and overall much more consistent in checking Ogre than PDon. I'm a lot more likely to use it on a team than something like Reshiram

 

[soorus]

Personally I think that the viability of gastrodon has diminished since the introduction of primal kyogre since it can no longer reliably switch in to a choice locked Thunder / water move and +1 252+ Blizzard from primal kyogre is a 2hko on 252/252+ gastrodon. Therefore it is no longer the hard counter it once was. It is forced to run mirror coat in order to retaliate, taking out Kyogre as long as it doesn't ohko gastrodon, but this is setup bait for cm kyogre variants, and Gastrodon is crippled after reflecting a powerful attack. Alternatively gastrodon can run clear smog for the ever popular cm ogre, but if gastrodon does not also run an attack that can hit kyogre hard, Kyogre walls it.
Running a 252/252+ spread just for Kyogre also makes it weak to the likes of psystrike from mewtwo. Honestly, as much as I like it, this mon is utter trash in oras. It should not be ranked.

 

[Hella Slapnut]

What niche does Arceus Flying serve?
And what does Sylveon do that Arceus Fairy can't other than wishpass?

 

[QueenOfHax]

The fact you are implying greninja uses a water move in ubers makes me cry.

Wy shouldn't it? IHydro Pump is Greninja's most powerful attack and it hits important targets like Groundceus and Ho-oh.

What niche does Arceus Flying serve?
And what does Sylveon do that Arceus Fairy can't other than wishpass?

It lets you use another Arceus forme. Also Hyper Voice goes through subs.

 

[yohoE]

Greninja's job in Ubers isn't to do damage. It's main role, and really the only role it can viably fill, is to be a hazard setter. This is mainly because Greninja is just not strong enough to do what it does in OU, and is also outclassed by several different Pokemon, including, but not limited to, Deoxys-A and Mewtwo. Also, Greninja is the ONLY Pokemon in the game that can set multiple hazards, stop almost every defogger from defogging AND be able to block Rapid Spin.

 

[DoABarrelRoll]

Why is Mega Gengar not S+? It might be a bit harder to use, but it basically terrorises stall, probably even more than P-Groudon against offense...

On Greninja: it should stay where it is. It can anti-lead the Deos (watch out for sash deo-a though), spinblock its own hazards and revenge kill Lati@s and MMY. Toxic Spikes helps even if you're playing offense, as it can screw with the CM Arceus forms, Giratina-A, P-Groudon/Kyogre, and even Xerneas if you don't let it set up. Meanwhile Taunt sends Lugia packing.

 

[Hack]

Why is Mega Gengar not S+? It might be a bit harder to use, but it basically terrorises stall, probably even more than P-Groudon against offense...

On Greninja: it should stay where it is. It can anti-lead the Deos (watch out for sash deo-a though), spinblock its own hazards and revenge kill Lati@s and MMY. Toxic Spikes helps even if you're playing offense, as it can screw with the CM Arceus forms, Giratina-A, P-Groudon/Kyogre, and even Xerneas if you don't let it set up. Meanwhile Taunt sends Lugia packing.

Primal Groudon is actually much more threatening to offensive teams- it has the power the outright sweep squishy teams with one turn of set up, something Gengar can never achieve.

Speaking B-ranks I'd probably rearrange a little. Things that stand out especially for me is Clefable, Gothitelle and Skarmory. Clefable is easiliy B+ rank material in my eyes, it has a legitimate niche in wish passing, providing the best support ever for our resident S++++ dinosaur, and I feel that Gengar+Xerneas teams aren't quite as common nor threatening, imo you don't actually need pursuit support with this mon, there are still ways to win the Gengar match up. Gothitelle is beyond awful in a physically oriented metagame. It is a liability to spend a team slot on. Skarmory is rather cool this meta, having a really solid mence answer and ekiller counter is always nice. Spikes are nice to pressure stuff with as well. deserves a bump to B+

Spikes/anti leads like Greninja/Scolipede/Cloyster i'm actually not too sure about, but I'd say Greninja and Cloyster are better than Scolipede.

I don't like Groudon and Palkia a subrank over Kyogre either, they are all equally shit (honestly Kyogre is better than them).

 

[Jibaku]

Edited ranking to include Mega Rayquaza. If someone can come up with a better blurb that'd be great

 

[PoweredByRevenge]

You could call that the God rank, seems pretty fitting imo.

 

[Thugly Duckling]

"Ascension Rank" IMO. Ascend, as in ascension to godhood. Also references 'Dragon Ascent', which is what truly makes Rayquaza the God that he is.

EDIT: Jibaku thanks for using my idea :] "The Ascendant" sounds awesome, "The Ascendence" if anything else gets banned lol

 

[Edgar]

When is Arceus-Dark gonna be moved to S-Rank?

 

[EmblemLord]

Some of the Megas in the list don't have the correct icon. Here are the correct ones:

Gengar-Mega

Mawile-Mega

Gyarados-Mega

 

[PISTOLERO]

Hello, it's time to discuss some changes, in no particular order, after having read everyone's recommendations and having looked through the list again

________

Arceus-Dark: A -> A+
Mewtwo-Mega-X: A- -> B+ / B
Gothitelle: B -> C
Arceus-Electric: B -> B-
Arceus-Poison: B -> C+
Skarmory -> B- -> B+
Clefable -> B- -> B+
Tentacruel: C -> B-

________​

Two things I think should also change are the Sticky Web setters. They are both in C+ now, but I remember an argument on PS! about the viability of Sticky Web, and while I was initially not quite as adamant as orch was on its lack of viability, I went away and made a concerted effort to build a viable Sticky Web team and it's actually impossible. the introduction of Lati@s makes it nigh impossible to build a team that functions with Sticky Web, as although you can run moves to KO Lati@s on your mons they will outspeed, suicide Defog and then win the game with the rest of their teammembers. I think that Sticky Web setters should be unranked as, quite frankly, the playstyle just isn't viable anymore :(.

________​

Arceus-Dark is very very good now, as Edgar has said, and you can see from his RMT and other teams how this thing's viability has climbed drastically, very easy to splash, breaks stall like it always did, eats Lati@s etc. I often find myself splashing it onto teams myself too.

Mega Mewtwo X is just very mediocre and always has been, you either get hard walled by Lati@s, Ho-Oh, Arceus-Ghost or Lugia. I guess it will always prevent Arceus-Dark from sweeping though.

Gothitelle is garbage, there just isn't anything for it to trap anymore

Arceus-Electric is almost unusable, you'll almost always run into 2 checks / counters to it in Lati@s and Primal Groudon

Arceus-Poison is bad, it loses to Lati@s, loses to Primal Groudon unless you run Earth Power, and still has the problems it used to

Skarmory i have not used personally, but it always severely irritates me when i use Lati@s and Salamence without Fire moves as it can roost off Draco Meteor damage and generally be very annoying to get through. You can't Toxic it with Klefki like you can Lugia either

Clefable i can see the reasoning for, read Hack's post

Tentacruel is something I personally would advocate to move up, Toxic Spikes chew apart Primal Groudon, Xerneas, Arceus formes etc, are as good as they have always been in this tier, and goddamn is it annoying to have Soul Dew knocked off on the switchin. just a hugely irritating Pokemon in general, although it might just be me making Tentacruel-weak teams. It wins against the two Magic Bouncers too, it burns Mega Sableye, and can burn Mega Diancie too whilst taking ~35% from Earth Power (Diamond Storm actually does way more).

thank you EmblemLord for the mega sprites

Fireburn if you get a chance could you sticky this thread like the old XY one was please

 

[Inspirited]

C+ -> B-(at least): The Eon twins returning is great for this thing. Scarf Checks them pretty handily with the threat of flinching them to death while still being a great asset on some forms of offense. The support set's niche is also bolstered by the return of the Eon Twins since it now does more than just check Xerneas and wish pass. It is better than a lot of the C+ tier (Strongzong, Psyceus, Steelceus, Gira-A) and Mega Altaria in my opinion. U-Turn makes up for its Primal Groudon weakness and can be used to remove the thing with proper team support.

Since this post was largely ignored, I will repost it for discussion, since I still believe this is the case.

 

[Gloating]

Rayquaza and Mega Diancie should move up to A rank. Dragon Ascent just made Rayquaza a lot better. CB Rayquaza is quite good, it has some advantages over CB Ho-Oh, it's faster, stronger, not 4x weak to Stealth Rock, no recoil STAB and Extremespeed. MixQuaza is also good, Draco Meteor hits like a nuke and has other options like Surf to one shot Primal Groudon or SD/DD. As for Mega Diancie, it is really anti meta being able to threaten all the dragons in the tier, Primal Groudon, Yveltal, Darkrai, Lugia, Ho-Oh, Klefki while also being able to Magic Bounce back hazards + status + phazing. All around really good Pokemon that should be atleast A.

 

[jackm]

Idk whether Diancie-Mega deserves A. While it can take most of the threats you mentioned, it also struggles against a host of powerful, VERY common appearances (SDef Groudon-Primal, Kyogre-Primal, and Arceus-Ground come to mind). This combined with its stat woes on its MEvo turn means that while it is good, it is not at the same level of viability as the A-rankers. A- seems like a good place to stay.

Agreeing with Ray though, that thing is awesome with DA.