ORAS UU Discussion

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beedrill is scary af holy shit

145 is a godly speed tier, and it pretty much outruns the entire unboosted tier save for mega aerodactyl. thank god for the shit bulk

also even if lopunny doesn't get hjk, she already has stab jump kick, in addition to options like low kick and focus punch; definitely a must to lookout for.
 
I'm going with silenced and VBD on this one. People look at mega Gallade and say: shit ability, garbage. This thing is not to be fucked with. It sits at 366 attack uninvested. You could technically run max speed, max hp, bulk up + 3 attacks. Bring it in safely, which shouldn't be too hard, click bulk up and then even Crobat can't possibly take it out with brave bird anymore unless it's banded. I 100% see this going BL, especially considering the other stuff that has already been banned from UU. Swampert, Metagross and possibly Altaria will quickly join Gallade as well. I can see mega Sableye sticking around for a bit, but to be completely honest, I think it will end up in BL as well.

As far as the others go, Camerupt looks like fun, even though I ran some calcs and Sheer Force boosted attacks really aren't THAT overwhelmingly powerful. It might get some use in UU, but not even as much as Mega Abomasnow, which has a boosting move + priority to make up for it's speed. Mega Sharpedo will definitely be a top tier threat. 70/70/65 defenses still aren't fantastic, but the combination of speed boost pre-mega with base 105 speed means it doesn't even have to run max speed if combined with protect. Add some hp ev's, substract LO recoil because there won't be any, and it could actually live most priority in the tier bar mach punches. I don't really see much hope for Glalie/Steelix/Audino to have a metagame defining presence. Pidgeot as a fun defogger with decent offensive pressure doesn't look all too bad. Mega Sceptile though, the SD set is for sure going to have merit, considering something like SD Virizion already puts in a lot of work in the tier as it is (not a fantastic comparison, i know, but let me be excited). Finally, Lopunny will probably be my most used mega simply because I love fighting types, and I completely agree with RowDog that it shouldn't be underestimated :].
 

Hogg

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Wait, seriously? Nobody thinks Mega-Audino will make a splash? MAudino has better physical bulk than Hippo while retaining special bulk almost as good as Florges. I know it's less shiny than some of the other options, but I think it'll be pretty fantastic.

EDIT: Glalie, too, will be a threat, especially on spike-stacking offense - a spiker that can blow up with Refrigerate Explosions to avoid spinning is scary.
 
Wait, seriously? Nobody thinks Mega-Audino will make a splash? MAudino has better physical bulk than Hippo while retaining special bulk almost as good as Florges. I know it's less shiny than some of the other options, but I think it'll be pretty fantastic.

EDIT: Glalie, too, will be a threat, especially on spike-stacking offense - a spiker that can blow up with Refrigerate Explosions to avoid spinning is scary.
Hippo has sandstream, Rocks, and a phasing move which makes it a very good utility mon. M-Audino will be a very good cleric for sure though, a better florges.
 

Hogg

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Yeah, I know it's not a Hippo replacement. Just bringing him up as a point of comparison to show how bulky MAudino is.

Considering that UU's only real option for a physically bulky fairy is Aromatisse, who isn't anywhere near as defensive as MAudino, I think there's a definite niche for the latter.
 
Normal typing really hurt's Audino's ability to checking Fighters, but I think it can make up for it with raw bulk and a ridiculous movepool. It's definitely better than I thought it was going to turn out, and it honestly might have been a little too much with Regenerator lol.

At the very least, I think it's one of the few new megas that aren't going to go up to OU.
 
Ikr, I have no idea why people are sleeping on Audino so much. Yeah, regenerator would've been nice, but it's still the physically bulky fairy with reliable recovery we've needed for so long (even if it doesn't resist fighting...), with fantastic spdef at the same time.
It's also quite easy to build around, as it resists the weaknesses of ghosts and psychics while having both its weaknesses covered by steels and the omnipresent water/ground types.

Oh, and it gets Calm Mind- we might not have Crobro, but I'm pretty sure Crodino will be a threat. Its very much like suicune with only two weaknesses, while audino's are even less common in the form of poison and steel, and its STAB has no immunities and not even any 4x resists below OU. Unfortunately no pressure or potential scald burns, but you cant have everything :O
 
The only problem with M.Audino is that it has absolutely zero form of recovery outside of Wish, which means it will be hard-pressed to recieve its own wish if you need it at a healthy amount of HP to check/counter things unless you run Dual Wishers. That can get kinda bad since it means Phazing is really gonna ruin M.Audino's day, and that 80 SpA with a 80 STAB (90 if you run Hyper Voice lol) isn't gonna help it.

Still that tremendous bulk and Fairy typing is nothing to laugh at, and it can check some top tier threats like Mienshao and Hydreigon with relative ease.
 

Hogg

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Regarding some of the others...

Beedrill: He has a U-turn almost as strong as CB Scizor's, but with 427 Speed. On the other hand, he will get OHKO'd by most non-STAB Sucker Punches. I'd be surprised if I didn't see this a fair bit on HO/VoltTurn, and it'll be a pain - but scarfers, Pursuit and priority should make this not too much worse than MegaZam.

Camerupt: Best Raikou counter in the tier? Not sure that's enough to make it worth playing outside of TR, but that's fun.

Pidgeot: I'm torn on this one. It'll be good, no doubt - that Speed tier plus the power of No Guard Hurricane guarantees that. Will it be as bad as Torn-T, though? Torn-T's Hurricane hit harder, but had that crap accuracy. Pidgeot can't pivot out with a fast U-turn for healing, but gets Roost instead for longevity. Defog is always appreciated, too. But in the end, I'm not sure it'll actually be as polarizing as Torn-T.
 
No way Mega Pidgeot will be as bad as Torn-T. Simply put, Regenerator broke Torn-T more than any other single factor and Pidgeot doesn't get it. Pidgeot will be a MEAN cleaner, what with perfectly accurate Hurricanes, resistance to most priority (Bullet Punch, Mach Punch, Vacuum Wave) while being able to fake out Sucker Punches with Roost, but the necessity of Roosting because of Stealth Rock, 100% accurate Stone Edges against it, and mediocre bulk will force smarter play than Tornadus required. Let's not forget that Tornadus' most brutal set by the time it left was the itemless Acrobatics set.

I feel like Mega Metagross will be the first to get booted out of UU. That speed increase was HUGE, it now can run Adamant or Naughty on an Agility set and clean the fuck up with Tough Claws boosted attacks off base 145/110 offenses. You can even set up in the face of Knock Offs from shit like Krookodile. Also: If you DO run the Agility set (I know I'm sure as hell going to), wait until you're absolutely ready to clean, bring it in AND IGNORE STICKY WEB THANKS TO CLEAR BODY, then Mega Evolve, Agility, and wreck face. I don't think Metagross gets it yet, but imagine if he got Heavy Slam to use instead of Meteor Mash. Mind you, Meteor Mash could boost his attack making him even more horribly difficult to stop, but as heavy as Mega Metagross is, Heavy Slam will probably outdamage it while retaining perfect accuracy.

Mega Metagross: The perfect killing machine.
 
Mega Audino will be ok in doubles, with the healer ability (i forget what it does but i know it only works in doubles and triples) and be a ok cleric in Singles with that typing (only weaknesses are poison and steel which aren't too good offensively and don't have too much really powerful moves) with wish/ heal bell and 103/126/126 defenses, i could see this thing maybe in RU (probably NU) because it's useless ability in singles but a ok cleric anyway.


I don't know if it will be too good mega or if a great use of a mega, we won't know until the games come out and we see the true potential of mega-audino but i don't know what moveset it will run, maybe like this: Heal bell/ wish/ protect/ dazzling gleam when it's useable but we have to wait for the games to come out to expirement.
 
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Hogg

grubbing in the ashes
is a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Staff Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnus
Pidgeot will be a MEAN cleaner, what with perfectly accurate Hurricanes, resistance to most priority (Bullet Punch, Mach Punch, Vacuum Wave) while being able to fake out Sucker Punches with Roost, but the necessity of Roosting because of Stealth Rock, 100% accurate Stone Edges against it, and mediocre bulk will force smarter play than Tornadus required. Let's not forget that Tornadus' most brutal set by the time it left was the itemless Acrobatics set.
Pidgeot doesn't resist bullet punch, mach punch or vacuum wave.

My guess is the same as yours - Mega-Pidgeot will be decent but won't be as centralizing as Torn-T was. (Although re: the Acrobatics set, that wouldn't have been its best set if it had access to perfectly accurate Hurricanes.) But it's still a comparison worth making.
 
I must have been mistaken, I heard somewhere that Mega Pidgeot would become Flying/Electric. If that's the case than Mega Pidgeot will be even easier to stop.
 
Alakazite | UU

Having got the chance to use Megazam both against experienced players and ladder players, I can definitely say that Megazam will be finding its impact in tour play, but that's neither here nor there. The problem for Alakazam I see that is different from stage 2 when it was first released is that the amount of Scarfers from then to now has gone way up and the ways to deal with Faster Pokemon has shifted back to mainly revenge killing. It also feels like the combination of Pokemon that are being run just isn't favourable for Alakazam's success. Even the influx of Spdef Gligar hinders Alakazam as now Gligar can basically put a stop to this threat. I really do think that Alakazam could be broken but from what i've seen and what I played, the spoons are not as good as they once were, so i'm voting UU for mega zam :]

Oh, also losing Magic Guard kinda sucks but hazards weren't an argument for Victini being unbanned so I don't really know if that parallel can be drawn from Mega Zam taking neutral damage off SR, especially when there are so many good ways to remove hazards in UU.


I'm a (BAN ME PLEASE).


I thought this thing would still be broken even after the transition between June --> October, but it turns out I was pretty wrong lol. Ever since Slowbro and Mew left the tier, offense has literally taken over and it has so many ways of applying its pressure against MegaZam i.e. Scarfers and strong priority users, which is why MegaZam hasn't been so overwhelming in this meta as opposed to June's meta.


to start off, its ability is more overrated than i thought it would be, and very rarely comes into actual use (that's not to say trace is useless, though, it just rarely does much for zam and would much rather prefer magic guard), it's also overwhelmed fairly easily by scarfers like krook and common offense cores, particularly the ever so present hydrachi core found on a good portion on offensive teams, and balance can deal with it as well, although it has a harder time with it. it also lacks sash as others have said which pretty much makes its incrased bulk m00t.


It gets a boost in special attack and speed but is significantly hindered by the loss of Magic Guard. It cannot run Sash or ignore residual damage after the first switch in which pretty much cancels out the increased bulk and power. While the speed boost seems significant it actually only outruns two or three specific threats, and its sets have plenty of offensive checks due to its physical frailty and weakness to U-turn which is a staple on the many Scarfers in the tier. So overall I don't think the improved stats have made enough of a difference for it to go from being a viable threat in the tier to being broken.


Trace is rarely useful, the boost in Special Attack and Speed is balanced by its inability to run Sash, all of its sets have plenty of checks, and it cant even OHKO spdef amoonguss with psychic..


while I believe megazam is marginally better than regular zam, i don't think megazam is quite broken. there are situations where it may be too difficult to deal with (tracing things like Sheer Force, adaptability) but those are things you can control. it has some common checks on both offense and defense so it's never really too overwhelming to deal with, even if it does OHKO spdef amoonguss with psyshock.


While mega-zam is meaningfully faster and more bulky that LO zam, the leap from that to "therefore mega-zam is broken" hinges on the concept that normal LO zam is a top-tier threat, which it isn't. Without the capacity to survive priority, scarfed u-turns, and outspeed crobat, LO zam is actually quite bad (and arguably outclassed by espeon), which means we can't evaluate mega-zam on those principles. Mega-zam still has plenty of counterplay, and the loss of magic guard somewhat nullifies its bulk. Trace is circumstantially overpowered, but this is more of an interesting element than it is a game-breaking one.


Didn't play this meta at all really, and I know some of our other newer council members have been wanting to accrue some more points for TC so I'll sit this one out


Didn't play this one.






 
lets talk about some of the megas that haven't got much dicussion (which is not a lot) but it looks like Mega Altaria could be good with pixelate and dragon attacks as a special attacker with Moonblast/ D-pulse/ Ice beam/ coverage move and has ok defenses 75/ 110/ 105 and it could be either a Special attacker, mixed attacker or phsyical attacker with 110/ 110/ 80 offenses, that's all i have to say about mega altaria.
 
lets talk about some of the megas that haven't got much dicussion (which is not a lot) but it looks like Mega Altaria could be good with pixelate and dragon attacks as a special attacker with Moonblast/ D-pulse/ Ice beam/ coverage move and has ok defenses 75/ 110/ 105 and it could be either a Special attacker, mixed attacker or phsyical attacker with 110/ 110/ 80 offenses, that's all i have to say about mega altaria.
It has hypervoice so Moonblast would be an inferior choice for the special attacker route, and D-pulse won't really add any relevant coverage already hit by fairy. Aside that you'd likely just be packing Fireblast to roast steels. Though the physical route is more preferred since Fairy + Ground provide more relevant coverage, and Dragon Dance is just too good of a boost for a sweeper route.
 
Another big thing I want to draw people's attention to, of which could be really useful to stall and defensive builds is a new move in milotic's movepool. This move being COIL. Now with that move you have a new win condition for defensive builds that can emulate zygarde (since I have my doubts as to whether that will survive its retest)

Potential moveset

Milotic @ Leftovers
Marvel Scale
248 HP, 36 SPE, 224 DEF
Impish
-Coil
-Dragon Tail
-Waterfall/Scald
-Recover/Rest/Substitute/Refresh

Basically its your standard physically defensive bulky water with a few tweaks. 36 speed EV's let it use dragon tail before suicune can use roar, which is the fastest phazer that milotic may have to compete with. The rest make it bulky so it can take on fire types before setting up as a win con or annoying hard to kill phazer. Coil and dragon tail should be obvious choices. Waterfall gets first slash in the 3rd moveslot in order to flinch slower faeries who are immune to dragon tail, and that its STAB from the boosts coil gives so as to eventually overpower them. If hitting faeries hard isn't an issue, then scald should be the preferred choice. Recover comes first in the last slot as instant healing will be important for stalling capabilities, though any of the other moves are just as viable provided the correct cleric or wish support is granted.

The difference between this and suicune is that milotic adds phazing damage and is a lot harder to take advantage of while resting or with water immunities. You can add a fair bit more chip damage with hazards and D-tail as opposed to fishing for scald hax. Secondly is that anyone silly enough to inflict status that isn't toxic makes it even harder to kill milotic thanks to marvel scale, as opposed to suicune who eventually must rest, recover really helps here.

Partners: Roserade is excellent, resisting the two weaknesses milotic has while adding spikes/t-spikes to go with d-tail phazing, cleric support in aromatherapy, and t-spikes absorption all in one. Amoongus and Mega-ampharos are also great with their resistances, great physical bulk and support through t-spikes removal and spore, or through heal bell support against toxic and pivoting.

Threats: Whimsicott is a hard shutdown to this set, not giving a damn about anything milotic does and taunt/encoring it or hitting hard. Any strong special attacking electric or grass needs to be covered as well, but whimsicott is the worst as any other electric/grass can be phazed out by dragon tail should it try to switch in.

Additional notes: Play around with the EV's a bit. I was rather lazy putting those together, so I've almost certainly missed something.
 
It has hypervoice so Moonblast would be an inferior choice for the special attacker route, and D-pulse won't really add any relevant coverage already hit by fairy. Aside that you'd likely just be packing Fireblast to roast steels. Though the physical route is more preferred since Fairy + Ground provide more relevant coverage, and Dragon Dance is just too good of a boost for a sweeper route.
i wasn't really checking it's moveset too much so i didn't know it got fire blast but really it was only about talking about mega-altaria since no one was talking about it

and i was not really thinking about the phsyical side, just thinking about the pokemon
 
i wasn't really checking it's moveset too much so i didn't know it got fire blast but really it was only about talking about mega-altaria since no one was talking about it

and i was not really thinking about the phsyical route, just thinking about the pokemon
I think the reason for not really talking about Altaria is it has a high chance of going OU, by merit of either being new or its typing. So we won't have much time to keep Altaria likely :C
 
I think the reason for not really talking about Altaria is it has a high chance of going OU, by merit of either being new or its typing. So we won't have much time to keep Altaria likely :C
Gallade is probably also going BL/OU and people are talking about that, but i feel like altaria should be talked about more.


Lets enjoy while we have it :)
 

Ash Borer

I've heard they're short of room in hell
beedrill is scary af holy shit

145 is a godly speed tier, and it pretty much outruns the entire unboosted tier save for mega aerodactyl. thank god for the shit bulk

also even if lopunny doesn't get hjk, she already has stab jump kick, in addition to options like low kick and focus punch; definitely a must to lookout for.
Lopunny has High Jump Kick. I think it's about on par with Mega Alakazam for demolishing offense. Its stats are not as impressive, but the power of HJK makes up for it quite easily. Perfect coverage between STAB free up move slots too.

And the possibilities for the last two moveslots are quite nice too. Facade to deal with burns nicely, fake out or quick attack for priority options, thunder wave or even toxic could be nice to put a thorn into the side of a wall that wants to switch in, encore punishes protect users and stall in general, flail is a bit gimmicky, but hell, you have two free moveslots, and it ramps up to 150 base power under 10% hp, Baton Pass to conserve momentum, Healing Wish is always a useful little tool for teams to have. Substitute can blend nicely with Baton Pass, Encore or Flail, and can end up buying some free damage in general, or at least create some pressure.

Lopunny is going to be a very dangerous attacker, and can have a lot of tricks up its sleev.
 
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