ORAS UU Viability Ranking Thread M2

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We were talking about this on irc for a bit before it got stupid, but I dont think Mega Sceptile should jump up any tiers. If anything it should drop from B+.. the sword's dance set comes with a large amount of 4MSS- personally i dont really see it as anything past a lure set because Mega Sceptile is sword's dancing off a very unremarkable 110 base stat, is highly prone to revenge killing and still struggles with bulky mons due to disappointing BP on physical moves. Not to mention that checks to the special set become even more successful at checking the sword's dance set, with even spd forretress and umbreon both loving the non-inclusion of focus blast and hitting for 73% and 145% with gyro ball and +2 foul play respectively. The only thing that SD Mega Sceptile does much better than regular mega sceptile is lure in florges and ko with +2 iron tail, but even that is iffy when florges ohkos back with uninvested moonblast, and iffy accuracy on iron tail paired with sceptile's perhaps unfortunate STAB combo which leaves him in heavy requirement for coverage moves. He also can boost to take out suicune, but ice beam is common and will destroy sceptile and even burns can deal with the physical set. uninvested seed bomb is not a 2hko, which is also depressing. hopefully we can put physical mega sceptile to rest as not only does it find it hard to find places to boost, it also is forced out with ease and is easily dealt with after the initial surprise factor- plus sceptile has only gotten worse with the introduction of mamoswine who heavily checks him, and mandibuzz who is a straight-up counter. Alakazam and Hippowdon also left and these are two mons which mega sceptile was arguably good against, hitting hippo super effectively and outspeeding alakazam.

I dunno if Mega Sceptile should drop to B because it still performs okay as a sweeper and mixed wallbreaker and has 2 4x resists and an immunity but it is kinda underwhelming, takes up a mega slot and arguably also competes with two very big contenders for the "dragon slot" on your team since hydreigon and salamence are really great atm and it doesnt need great to stack such heavy ice weaknesses with mamo in such a good place (or just in general..).
Uh... For some reason I'm bothered by this is uh... Where did the immunity come from again...?
Honestly, Mega Sceptile should drop because Mega Aboma does it's job better physically and specially, a lot of things that are popular right now screw it over(Hi Florges).
 
lightningrod gives it electric type immunity :d
i wouldnt say florges screws it over too much, there are definitely mixed sets that you can run with mega sceptile that take care of florges which switch into leaf storm + sr damage with iron tail without sacrificing much as a sweeper specially apart from coverage- but being to muscle past a super-common switchin can be worth it. although as i mentioned above i agree that there are still a bunch of other things that screw it over.
 

Thisbemyalt

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I for one, Would like to nominate Sceptile-Mega for A-/A Tier. Currently: B+ Tier.

Hear me out on this one. I may be somewhat biased as I've been using Mega Sceptile a LOT recently, and with the right moveset, the right team support (And even then, it can function VERY well on it's own), it can be a dominating force on the field. It outspeeds almost every mon in UU, holding a blistering base 145 speed (With the only exceptions being Mega Aerodactyl and some Scarf users), an incredibly respectable 145 Special Attack, and a base 110 Attack, which may not seem all THAT great, but then you remember it's access to Swords Dance and a large physical Movepool.

I can hear all the haters crying out now: "BUT WAIT! WHAT ABOUT MAMO?! WHAT ABOUT MEGA OBAMA?!"
First of all: Not counters.
252 SpA Mega Sceptile Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Mamoswine: 450-530 (125.3 - 147.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Mega Sceptile Focus Blast vs. 8 HP / 0 SpD Mega Abomasnow: 272-322 (84.2 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

"Oh, but what about Florges?! What about Mega Beedrill?! What about Tentacruel?!"

First of all, Florges doesn't counter SD Mega Sceptile if it already has an SD up.
+2 252 Atk Mega Sceptile Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 232 Def Florges: 268-316 (74.4 - 87.7%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Second of all, Tentacruel gets OHKO'd by an SD Boosted EQ
+2 252 Atk Mega Sceptile Earthquake vs. 240 HP / 244+ Def Tentacruel: 368-434 (101.9 - 120.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

And thirdly, Mega Beedrill has the exact same speed stat as Mega Sceptile, leaving this one a draw, but on the first turn of Mega Evolution, Sceptile would indeed be faster than Beedrill, so Mega Sceptile beats him with either set there, unless Protect of course, but then it's a coin flip.
Yes, true, there are things that will ALWAYS counter Mega Sceptile, such as Offensive Whimsicott, which I've seen run around a bit, and Crobat, who absolutely LOVES to shit on Sceptile's day, as well as Assault Vest Slowking, but honestly, Mega Sceptile is too useful of an Offensive mon to be JUST B+ Tier. He forces out so many switches, can set up, sweep, etc. So I don't see why Mega Sceptile can't be A-/A Tier material.
If you want to see this thread's opinion on mega scept I recommend going back a few pages I would argue with you here but mods said they wanted no more talk on the matter. As for claw I say keep it unranked for sure frankly it is just a worse stoise without a mega and no hazard control. Claw has poor speed and mediocre power while lacking the great natural bulk that stoise has. Sure you can say it has a pivot ability but not really a great one since it can't switch in on like anything that it can actually kill and the whole damn offensive portion of the tier outpaces it.
 
If you want to see this thread's opinion on mega scept I recommend going back a few pages I would argue with you here but mods said they wanted no more talk on the matter. As for claw I say keep it unranked for sure frankly it is just a worse stoise without a mega and no hazard control. Claw has poor speed and mediocre power while lacking the great natural bulk that stoise has. Sure you can say it has a pivot ability but not really a great one since it can't switch in on like anything that it can actually kill and the whole damn offensive portion of the tier outpaces it.
My thanks, I hadn't scrolled through the pages. I apologize for the inconvenience.
 
What I have found that its a really nice support mon that pops in and out of situations. You dont have to use it as a wall but rather nice hazard and status support. My team that is built around it is doing pretty well. The only time I was dissapointed was when it died to a mega sharpedo crunch at 52%. Im still not sure where I stand. Ganna keep testing it.
Spoof was the sharp adamant or jolly?Because if adamant then it chunks at Physicall walls,if Jolly it cant do anything.
 
Spoof was the sharp adamant or jolly?Because if adamant then it chunks at Physicall walls,if Jolly it cant do anything.
I dont know and it doesnt matter. The point is that I am a physical wall and I cant live a physical attack... So im trying to fight for it being seen in a different light like crobat isnt a wall but it takes hits.
 
I dont know and it doesnt matter. The point is that I am a physical wall and I cant live a physical attack... So im trying to fight for it being seen in a different light like crobat isnt a wall but it takes hits.
Weezing is a physical wall, which has access to WoW and Toxic Spikes. imo, you have viewed weezing in the completely wrong light from what you should be viewing it in. there are plenty of these so-called "isn't a wall but takes hits" pokemon, and many of them share nearly the same typing. If you want a pokemon to setup Toxic Spikes, Weezing wouldn't be your first choice, because that's not its main role; Weezing only fits in on very defensive teams that want a nice answer to stuff like Mamoswine and Heracross (two examples that were stated above) because it is graced with Levitate leaving it with just one weakness which is quite uncommon in this tier. Its mono-poison typing graces it with resists to some of the most common offensive typings in UU, namely fighting, bug and ground (because of levitate, obviously.) This means it can check some really threatening pokemon along the lines of Heracross, Mienshao, Machamp, physical Salamence, Krookodile, Mamoswine (albeit a very shaky check to Mamo), Mega Swampert, and Mega Beedrill, among others. It is firstly a wall and secondly a hazard setter/utility pokemon, and honestly Qwilfish is a much better user of Toxic Spikes than Weezing is. I agree with the previously stated sentiment to keep Weezing in C-rank, because that's right where it belongs; it has a clear niche in checking some extremely dangerous pokemon in check but has some very obvious flaws which keep it from rising even up to B-.

Also, for your point on sharpedo, either you weren't running max hp/def bold (which you should be) or you got a max roll and PS misled you in terms of percentages. The calc is shown here:
252+ Atk Strong Jaw Mega Sharpedo Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Weezing: 144-171 (43.1 - 51.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery

that's very good for a neutral hit. just because you take ~50% from one of the best wallbreakers in the tier doesn't mean you're not a physical wall. weezing has extraordinary physical bulk alongside a very nice list of resistances, but the fact that it's worn down extremely easily without any kind of recovery apart from the very, very unreliable pain split, that it gives free switches into some of the tier's most dangerous special attackers (namely Chandelure) that it's devastated by said special attackers, and that it simply doesn't warrant a spot on any kind of team apart from very dedicated stall which desperately needs an answer to both strong fighting types and LO mamoswine because of its opportunity cost sadly keeps it from rising any higher.
 
Something imo that should raise is Rotom-H: B -> B+

Rotom-H should rise because it have a good time vs the new drops. Physically defensive Rotom-H is one of the nicest mamoswine checks and can also obviously not have an issue beating Mandibuzz. Yes Mamoswine is a SR setter, but I dont think that hinders Rotom-H as its not like Mamoswine is causing SR to be more frequently used, it just means that people are choosing Mamoswine as their SR setter over something that could potentially cause Rotom-H more issues like Swampert with scald- and that change benefits Rotom-H.
Rotom-H is still a good pokemon and also is a decent/sometimes great check to Mega Pidgeot which is apparently on the rise- scarf sets can revenge kill it pretty easily, while specially defensive sets avoid an ohko from hyper beam even after rocks and obviously resist hurricane, heat wave and u-turn.
Besides that, Rotom-H can be catered to have great matchups with almost the entirety of the upper tiers, due to fantastic STAB combination and access to will-o-wisp and trick, a trait which just isnt common to see in B or B+ rank- however I can understand that the SR weakness and only reasonable speed keeps it out of A, but I would like to see it in B+ instead. Its only gotten better with the recent shifts, improving the viability of every set it has and remains just as difficult for teams to switch into throughout the match provided they can't keep SR up.
 
Mamoswine should be considered for S-rank.
I'm not going to discuss its strong points because we already know them, I just want to point out that it is an extremely overcentralizing pokemon right now, to the point almost every single post in the last few pages here (as well as many other thread in this section) has the word "Mamoswine" in it (CTRL+F and see for yourselves). This is a huge sign of overcentralization, which in turn is a sign of S-rank material. Food for thought.
 
Mamoswine should be considered for S-rank.
I'm not going to discuss its strong points because we already know them, I just want to point out that it is an extremely overcentralizing pokemon right now, to the point almost every single post in the last few pages here (as well as many other thread in this section) has the word "Mamoswine" in it (CTRL+F and see for yourselves). This is a huge sign of overcentralization, which in turn is a sign of S-rank material. Food for thought.
Just because there has been a lot of discussion about it doesn't make it over centralizing. Mamo is a great staple to the tier, but it the lack of resists, speed, and boosting moves hinder it. It should remain where it is.
 

feen

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Mamoswine should be considered for S-rank.
I'm not going to discuss its strong points because we already know them, I just want to point out that it is an extremely overcentralizing pokemon right now, to the point almost every single post in the last few pages here (as well as many other thread in this section) has the word "Mamoswine" in it (CTRL+F and see for yourselves). This is a huge sign of overcentralization, which in turn is a sign of S-rank material. Food for thought.
The only reason we'll get so much mentions of Mamoswine is because it's new to the UU metagame. It is not worthy of being S-rank for only that reason. Sure, it's offensive prowess is amazing, having few counters in Rotom-H, Suicune and Porygon 2. But it's slow, frail, weak to common fighting spam, also it resists like Poison so it won't be coming into anything. Moreover, it cannot come in safely to anything without losing a lot of its HP on anything relevant in the tier. All these points stops Mamoswine from being S rank.
 
Still amazed Mamoswine dropped from OU to UU. That thing only is stopped by Mew, Skarmory and Rotom W, and only if they are healthy enough to take a double EQ, Icicle Crash or Superpower to the face, and guess what, none of all these are here, so he is free to rampage every time it gets a switch in (not that hard thanks to thick fat ice resistance+electric immunity+decent bulk and speed for a priority user-wallbreaker). Pretty sure it deserves an S.
 
Still amazed Mamoswine dropped from OU to UU. That thing only is stopped by Mew, Skarmory and Rotom W, and only if they are healthy enough to take a double EQ, Icicle Crash or Superpower to the face, and guess what, none of all these are here, so he is free to rampage every time it gets a switch in (not that hard thanks to thick fat ice resistance+electric immunity+decent bulk and speed for a priority user-wallbreaker). Pretty sure it deserves an S.
Comparing OU to UU is like comparing A little girl who likes death metal to a girl who likes let it go. OU is a completely different metagame and all the reasons stated above show proof of Mamoswines viability in UU. It is for sure not a worthy S- Rank mon.
 
I am not comparing it to OU. Actually, i am comparing it to BW Kyurem grey. drops from OU to a tier UU who has none of it's counters, and is now free to rampage with his amazing STAB moves. Chamaleon, i bet 10-1 that he will end just like kyurem did
 
I am not comparing it to OU. Actually, i am comparing it to BW Kyurem grey. drops from OU to a tier UU who has none of it's counters, and is now free to rampage with his amazing STAB moves. Chamaleon, i bet 10-1 that he will end just like kyurem did
Lol its not any more broken than heracross. It will stay.
 
Still amazed Mamoswine dropped from OU to UU. That thing only is stopped by Mew, Skarmory and Rotom W, and only if they are healthy enough to take a double EQ, Icicle Crash or Superpower to the face, and guess what, none of all these are here, so he is free to rampage every time it gets a switch in (not that hard thanks to thick fat ice resistance+electric immunity+decent bulk and speed for a priority user-wallbreaker). Pretty sure it deserves an S.
Cresselia completely walls Mamoswine. Rotom-H deals with Mamoswine really well, only being hit significantly by the uncommon Stone Edge. Suicune is just barely 3HKOed by Earthquake and Freeze-Dry. Mamo needs Knock Off to have a chance of beating Porygon2. Forretress is 3HKOed, though the lack of recovery is a bit of an issue there. Alomomola can beat Mamoswine with enough SpD investment.

Though there are few, Mamoswine definitely has defensive answers and his lack of a boosting move makes this easier. While his premier answers in OU are not in this tier, that does not mean that it has no answers in UU. His UU answers are just uncommon in OU, which is to be expected.

While he is harder to switch into on offense, Mamo has a difficult time coming in due to its mediocre speed, bulk and typing. Scarf/Specs Rotom-H and Heracross are examples of offensive Pokemon who can switch into at least a few of its moves and OHKO in return. Mamoswine is fine in A+.
 
Funny you mention Heracross. I just dropped Mamoswine for Flame Orb Heracross because Mamoswine wasn't able to break some important stall Pokemon, specifically Snorlax and Cress. Freeze-Dry is also an issue that exacerbates his 4MSS. I miss the priority (still working on the team because of that), but like I've been saying elsewhere, stall shuts down Mamoswine pretty hard, and you're freaking out because you're trying to use balance answers (which there were in OU) and they're failing.
 
Alomomola is a pretty great counter to non-freeze dry variants of mamoswine too, while mega aggron isnt 2hkod by life orb eq so is a good check especially with resttalk sets. Umbreon can avoid the 2hko from LO eq with its specially defensive set as long as it uses protect after switching in- or could just put some evs to defense to deal with mamoswine. Also air balloon gets a ton of pokemon in for free against Mamoswine, for instance cobalion. I do think Mamoswine is still an absolute menace and a lot of his counters can be beaten with different sets, but he needs life orb to become a real problem to wall offensively and he's not ohkoing any of the bulky waters, while hating a scald in return. even alomomolas scald does 40%, uninvested vaporeon is threatening a ohko after life orb damage or SR dmg. Most mons can threaten mamoswine for half his hp thanks to common weaknesses, and its not too easy to switch in.
I feel that Mamoswine will change the meta a little (as many good pokemon before it have) but might eventually settle down.
 
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DennisEG

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Welp i think Mamo need to be Rank S at least cuz this monster has no switch ins like cero. Is a complete beast, bulk/priority/power and versatility so yeah, tell me a gud switching to this set

Mamoswine @ Life Orb
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard
- Icicle Crash
- Knock Off / Freeze Dry
 

Hogg

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4MSS is four moveslot syndrom. It means that something might be good in theory, if it could use every move it got, but since it can only use four moves it's not really as good as it looks on paper. It's a term often incorrectly applied to 'mons that are pretty good and have so many decent options that you always wish you had an extra moveslot, which is a pretty nice "problem" to have.

Could someone tell be what is 4mss
 
Welp i think Mamo need to be Rank S at least cuz this monster has no switch ins like cero. Is a complete beast, bulk/priority/power and versatility so yeah, tell me a gud switching to this set

Mamoswine @ Life Orb
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard
- Icicle Crash
- Knock Off / Freeze Dry
Bronzing, for one. Cress, Rotom-H. And Crocune gives zero shits about your puny ice moves.
 
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