ORAS UU Viability Ranking Thread M3 (READ POST #823)

[Cactrune]

The big man himself is being nominated for S-rank, but I'll have to disagree with that nomination right now. I say this as a very avid user of Reuniclus that incorporates it onto my teams very often, and I think that I have enough experience with this exceptional 'mon to have a say here.

Why We Like Reuniclus

There was a time when Reuniclus was still an incredibly underrated Pokemon, as it had somehow fallen to the depths of RU. People very quickly rediscovered this monster, realizing that with Magic Guard, great bulk, and good coverage, it could easily dismantle most Stall and Balance teams. Psyshock+Focus Blast offers great 2-move coverage on the Calm Mind set, and Reuniclus's naturally high special attack allowed it to have the upper hand in Calm Mind wars with anything not named Chandelure. Calm Mind dismantles stall, and the Trick Room set is very good at destroying offense thanks to Reuniclus's natural traits, most importantly its high speed under Trick Room. These sets allowed Reuniclus to once again make a name for itself in this tier, and it soon found itself propelled into the A-ranks as one of the most dangerous setup sweepers in the tier.

Why Reuniclus Struggles

That was then, this is now. Balance and stall are not the same as they were back then, and they have adapted to specifically check Reuniclus. Reuniclus had an edge over the typical CroCune set, as it could set up to +6 on it. However, the main Suicune sets nowadays always incorporate Roar, and in the right circumstances they can stall Reuniclus out. A number of defensive answers to Reuniclus are getting more and more common, especially Doublade, Mandibuzz, and Jellicent, whose rise in viability has a lot to do with its exceptional ability to check Reuniclus. Even Quagsire has seen a slight rise in usage over this thing.

To top it all off, Reuniclus has always struggled against offense thanks to its low speed. This Pokemon's stellar bulk may allow it to check some things, but its Calm Mind set is hard pressed to sweep against offense. Get a little bit of chip damage on it, and Krookodile, Mega Beedrill and Hydreigon can beat it easily. Doublade, also commonly found on offense, resists Reuniclus's typical coverage moves and can use it as setup fodder. Chandelure, perhaps one of the tier's best wallbreakers with its Choice Specs set, aborts this fetus with ease. There are other checks, like Encore Whimsicott, Mega Blastoise, Feraligatr, Heracross, and Knock Off Mamoswine, all of which contribute to this set being hard to use against offense. Yes, I know that some of these threats can't switch into Reuniclus, but they can still either predict right on the switch or revenge kill this thing. The Trick Room set has the inverse problem, performing admirably against offense but faltering against Stall and Bulky balance, where common Pokemon like Mandibuzz and Florges can take hits from it and recover health.

TLDR, I think that Reuniclus is an incredible Pokemon with great attributes all around, but I also think that S is too high for it. It's a terror for any team to face, but most good players know that nowadays and prepare accordingly. The fact that defensive teams are prepared for it and that some of the tier's key offensive threats can demolish its (arguably) best set means that this Pokemon ought to stay A+, at least for now.​

 

[ehT]

(You don't want to know how much cringy fan art I had to wade through to find this)
​

I'm pretty iffy about Reuniclus for S Rank, but I'm also not sure how I feel about "everyone prepares for it" as an argument against it rising. S Rank is reserved for mons that the meta revolves around. If you don't prepare for them, you're probably going to lose. A lot. Reuniclus is a majour part of why Whimsicott, Roar Cune, Taunt Roost Hydreigon, and stallbreaker Mandibuzz are so popular right now. And even then, Reuniclus is versatile enough (CM is the most common, but there are also AV, Specs, and TR LO sets running around) that sometimes even these measures aren't enough, with Mandibuzz being the possible exception. That's the definition of centralising, and Reuniclus fits that description to a T. You could make this same argument for Suicune, as well, but that just goes to show how much of a pain in the ass both of these mons can be to check. Reuniclus's potency makes it a menace to prepare for, and that fact, in my opinion, is a better argument for why it should rise than why it shouldn't.

TL;DR: If Reuniclus is going to stay A+, it should be for the right reasons.

 

[Max Carvalho]

Mega Sceptile is actually a HUGE threat to HO teams, being able to outspeed the entire tier unboosted (bar Mega Aero) and even some slow scarf mons such as Timid Chandelure. It also is extremely powerful, you can't really laugh at a Leaf Storm coming from 145 base Special Attack and its Dragon Pulses, while not as powerful, still hit pretty decently and can clean lategame after the opposing team is weakened. Also, it's ability is a given, being able to make the opponent think twice before clicking that Volt Switch and also pressuring Gligar+Pory2+Cobalion fuga cores, which are becoming pretty popular right now, if packing Focus Blast, which I recommend.

Now, vs. more defensive teams it's not as good, given its lack of boosting moves for the special set, but it can still check, if not counter, bulky waters and break through mons like Doublade, which in theory walls it, but in reality takes 30% from Dragon Pulse, and because it has no recovery, is easily weakened for a teammate to sweep. That is if you don't pack HP Fire, which smacks a 2HKO on Doublade and Whimsicott. Moreover, it can even run a mixed set with Iron Tail, which only needs 96 Atk EVs to KO standard Florges after a Leaf Storm and open up for another teammate to clean, such as ScarfMence, which is what I've been running recently with wonderful results, as no one would ever doubt to send a Florges against a Mega Sceptile.

All in all, Mega Sceptile may not be an amazing mon, but it's pretty good given the proper team help and I think it's completely fine at B+.

Hm, this makes lots of sense, mixed seems to fare well here, will test it more. It' just that I thought Mega Sceptile took too much opportunity cost as a Mega When there are, admitedely, better options for a Mega Cleaner (say Sharpedo), Sceptile has more power right on the go compared to other megas (even tho not consistent, but it's awesome in order to break things that doesn't resist LS). It's also fantastic in order to check Bulky water-types, atm dominant. K then keep it B+.

 

[Venoxio]

Hey guys, I have a nomination I want to say.

Nidoqueen for A+

A lot of people may disagree with me on this, but this thing is a monster. Nidoqueen does a lot of damage, more than expected. It is one of the few Pokemon in UU with access to Sheer Force, which lets it pack a punch and it's bulk is not to bad either. It also gets numerous coverage moves to deal with it's checks (if you wanna use them) such as Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, or even Focus Blast. It also has access to TWO entry hazard moves, Stealth Rock and Toxic Spikes, which let it wear down it's switchins pretty easily. Nidoqueen can also phaze with Roar, so setup sweepers it can handle (I say that because a few sweepers comfortably wall or kill it.) will get phazed out and possibly get damaged by SR and Toxic Spikes. In my opinion, Nidoqueen is very good and deserves A+ rank. (Also Ground types and water types cannot safely switch in due to Ice Beam and Thunderbolt threats.)

EDIT: Nidoqueen has a great matchup against most high-ranked mons in the tier.​

 

[DaSpoofy]

Hold up on that reuniclus nomination. I have something to share!
Recent battle
I'm sorry its a 49 turn battle but please listen to my description of the battle at least.
I have reuniclus on my team and my opponent is rocking the florges, forretress, and suicune core. He makes the preparations for reuniclus such as roar suicune and krookodile. Plus he has an entei to hit me hard. His krookodile turns out to be scarfed. I kill the entei and I win. There is nothing besides hax he can do about reuniclus once its the last mon alive on my team. His only misplay was trading damage on my empoleon for his entei (which doesn't seem like a bad trade). Reuniclus seems to be the calm mind suicune we use to have a few months ago. Of course the differences are speed and typing. There are other things to make up for that such as being able to run two attacking moves and no hazard damage. Reuniclus also runs a scary cleaner set with trick room three attacks. Assault vest is also a great option as suggested by Do A Bibarel. I still have to think about it but I see it as a top tier threat. Then again, I also see entei as a top tier threat. The difference between the two however is the versatility. I know I consider reuniclus when I team build. I will think about some more and check the usage stats and do some digging. Probably see some UU open and consider if those winning teams were reuniclus weak. Maybe it only works this great around balance. I know stall is preparing for it. On the fence

 

[Mistress Remilia]

Hey guys, I have a nomination I want to say.

Nidoqueen for A+

A lot of people may disagree with me on this, but this thing is a monster. Nidoqueen does a lot of damage, more than expected. It is one of the few Pokemon in UU with access to Sheer Force, which lets it pack a punch and it's bulk is not to bad either. It also gets numerous coverage moves to deal with it's checks (if you wanna use them) such as Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, or even Focus Blast. It also has access to TWO entry hazard moves, Stealth Rock and Toxic Spikes, which let it wear down it's switchins pretty easily. Nidoqueen can also phaze with Roar, so setup sweepers it can handle (I say that because a few sweepers comfortably wall or kill it.) will get phazed out and possibly get damaged by SR and Toxic Spikes. In my opinion, Nidoqueen is very good and deserves A+ rank. (Also Ground types and water types cannot safely switch in due to Ice Beam and Thunderbolt threats.)
​

We get it, we know how Nidoqueen works, its pros&cons, it's movepool, but how exactly has it improved in the current metagame? Even if a pokemon is amazing on paper, if the meta is unkind to it, it's likely going to be worse than expected. However, what i might not know is its improvement in the UU Metagame, with the rise of some threats that would justify the use of Nidoqueen on more teams.
Don't take that as a counter argument, i'm neutral on it as my performance with Queen is limited.

 

[DiscoDucky]

Fighting types are meh in this meta, so what makes you think Nido is good in this meta at all?

 

[Nightingales]

Nominating Scyther from Unranked to C.

Let's be real, this bug has seen better days. Its' older brother is in OU, while it sits in the depths of RU. But there's a something that makes Scyther better than just setup fodder weak to rocks.

Technician.

For those of you who are unaware, Technician boosts the power of moves with a base power of 60 or under by 1.5. With that being said, moves that are weak like Aerial Ace, a 60 bp move, suddenly becomes a Stab 90 BP move coming off of 319 attack if Jolly, or 350 if Adamant. That's not even accounting for if it gets a SD up. It might be weaker in comparison to some of the better UU wallbreakers, and it has a shitty movepool to take advantage of Technician, but it gets Roost. It gets moves that can set up, and break through certain walls if it does more than weaken them. Plus, with Psychics, Fighting, and Grass reasonably more common than before, there's a few things that fear it and can actually be forced out, especially if set up.

Of course, it has issues. It is 4x weak to Rocks. It dies if you throw a pebble at it. Max speed with Neutral nature sets it at 309 speed, which falls short of a lot of offensive threats. It is crippled by any status. If it resists the stabs you can throw at it, you die. Setting up can be a challenge vs more offensive and balanced teams, since you can keep the pressure on. But it is still good enough (at least in my opinion) to warrant it being C-Ranked.

-insert useful replay here that i totally didn't forget to save or anything-

 

[Serperior for Uber]

Going back to the Whimsicott for A+ rank discussion, I can not disagree more. There is no doubt that Whimsicott is the best support mon in the tier, but I feel its effectiveness stops there. Whimsicott is simply not on par with the other mons in the A+ region. Pokemon like Mega-aerodatcyl, Mega-beedril, Mamoswine all directly influence a game and are the stars of the show. Good teams will NEED an answer to an aerodactyl or a beedril. But no team goes and gameplans with a Whimsicott counter in mind. You don't even need to run something to beat Whimsicott, a lot of stuff just beats it by doing what they do. Whimsicott coming in on a scald takes 20 ish with a possible burn, coming in on a gatr waterfall takes a chunk, even coming in on passive mons forces it to take some damage or the other. This leads me to my next point, whimsicott gets worn down easily. No reliable recovery means that it is only a matter of time before it stops being the universal check all mon. Furthermore, its offensive and defensive stats are mediocre at best (although it does have a godly typing) Pretty much what I'm trying to say is that Whimsicott can not sweep teams and does not put much pressure on opposing teams. Yes, it is a very good support mon with a plethora of options, but that's as far as it goes and that is why I think it is only A rank worthy.

TLDR: Whimsicott is a very good support pokemon, but that doesn't have the sheer power to dominate games like other A+rank threats.

 

[silenced]

Im not trying to be rude but since you are clearly new to uu at least I recommend you lurk forums for awhile before posting especially arguments in this thread discussing the mons you are interested in.
As for dropping sceptile I think you are really underestimating it and if you are going to post a nomination for a drop u are supposed to post what meta game changes make it worse, however the meta game has only improved sceptile as the tier is becoming more offensive his great speed tier is a fantastic asset that and since he is so fast you can often run modest like you would run adamant on bee. I could see the argument of mamoswine making sceptile worse however mence is an even more common recent drop and sceptile is a decent check since it can outspeed and ohko, also mega burd being banned makes it so sceptile faces less competition as a fast sp attacking mega while also losing a common check. Overall I would say keep sceptile where it is since it has only gotten better as of late but not enough to warrant a rise imo.

I agree with some of what you've said, but some of your points in favour of mega-sceptile are somewhat missing its flaws.

Firstly, mega-sceptile really only blocks rotom-C from volt-switching. Its frailty in general means anything else has good odds of landing an OHKO with their additional STAB, or straight-up walling mega-sceptile due to typing. Consider what commonly uses volt-switch in UU
-Mega Ampharos: Mega Sceptile cannot block due to dragon pulse
-Rotom-H: You can if its the defensive set, but even scarf has a chance to OHKO with overheat after rocks.
-Forretress: Mega sceptile cannot do a thing to it. 70% chance to 2HKO sceptile after rocks with gyro ball
-Heliolisk: Some sets yes, however Specs as 43% chance to OHKO after rocks with hyper voice.
-Galvantula: either has HP ice to complete coverage, or bug buzz.

In other words, its not a great deterrent to volt-switching in UU.

Secondly, the big problem with mega sceptile is that it still has a lot of competition for its slot with other grass types/Mega's. Even HO really doesn't like stacking multiple grass types into a single team, and it faces stiff competition from Rotom-C, Whimsicott and Shaymin who can bring useful support roles to the table while hitting opponents extremely hard. Sceptile really doesn't offer much outside of a SD set, which has trouble setting up on even bulky waters due to scald or possible ice coverage.

Finally, the other major issue is speed. base 145 is fantastic, and 120 pre mega also fantastic, but its not really enough for offense. You either need to be wall-breaking, which is something sceptile faces serious competition in, or be outspeeding all of the metagame, including choice-scarfed pokemon (e.g mega-swapert under rain, slurpuff after unburden). If you're going to try and fall in between 2 roles, you need to be pivoting like mega-beedrill, or having clutch resistances like mega-aero. Sceptile really isn't clutch enough for its typing in UU, and it cannot pivot. Setting up and sweeping is a role it has trouble with due to mamoswine, strong priority, susceptible to burns and poor STAB combo, even if augmented by EQ or focus blast.

It should stay ranked, but B+ is too high.

 

[MZ]

I agree with some of what you've said, but some of your points in favour of mega-sceptile are somewhat missing its flaws.

Firstly, mega-sceptile really only blocks rotom-C from volt-switching. Its frailty in general means anything else has good odds of landing an OHKO with their additional STAB, or straight-up walling mega-sceptile due to typing. Consider what commonly uses volt-switch in UU
-Mega Ampharos: Mega Sceptile cannot block due to dragon pulse
-Rotom-H: You can if its the defensive set, but even scarf has a chance to OHKO with overheat after rocks.
-Forretress: Mega sceptile cannot do a thing to it. 70% chance to 2HKO sceptile after rocks with gyro ball
-Heliolisk: Some sets yes, however Specs as 43% chance to OHKO after rocks with hyper voice.
-Galvantula: either has HP ice to complete coverage, or bug buzz.

In other words, its not a great deterrent to volt-switching in UU.

Secondly, the big problem with mega sceptile is that it still has a lot of competition for its slot with other grass types/Mega's. Even HO really doesn't like stacking multiple grass types into a single team, and it faces stiff competition from Rotom-C, Whimsicott and Shaymin who can bring useful support roles to the table while hitting opponents extremely hard. Sceptile really doesn't offer much outside of a SD set, which has trouble setting up on even bulky waters due to scald or possible ice coverage.

Finally, the other major issue is speed. base 145 is fantastic, and 120 pre mega also fantastic, but its not really enough for offense. You either need to be wall-breaking, which is something sceptile faces serious competition in, or be outspeeding all of the metagame, including choice-scarfed pokemon (e.g mega-swapert under rain, slurpuff after unburden). If you're going to try and fall in between 2 roles, you need to be pivoting like mega-beedrill, or having clutch resistances like mega-aero. Sceptile really isn't clutch enough for its typing in UU, and it cannot pivot. Setting up and sweeping is a role it has trouble with due to mamoswine, strong priority, susceptible to burns and poor STAB combo, even if augmented by EQ or focus blast.

It should stay ranked, but B+ is too high.

He said volt switch deterrent, not counter to volt switch users. Rotom-C and H (and sometimes Heliolisk) are often choiced and have to play very carefully so as to not give Sceptile a free switch in, boost, and ability to force them out. While Sceptile cant switch into the others safely and cant even touch Forretress without HP Fire, it simply deters them from wanting to use their electric STAB since that'd be a free switch in to dragon pulse them back, just the same as any immunity deters moves that it's immune to. Also Galvantula isn't really a relevant volt switcher.

 

[DaSpoofy]

Firstly, mega-sceptile really only blocks rotom-C from volt-switching. Its frailty in general means anything else has good odds of landing an OHKO with their additional STAB, or straight-up walling mega-sceptile due to typing. Consider what commonly uses volt-switch in UU
-Mega Ampharos: Mega Sceptile cannot block due to dragon pulse
-Rotom-H: You can if its the defensive set, but even scarf has a chance to OHKO with overheat after rocks.
-Forretress: Mega sceptile cannot do a thing to it. 70% chance to 2HKO sceptile after rocks with gyro ball
-Heliolisk: Some sets yes, however Specs as 43% chance to OHKO after rocks with hyper voice.
-Galvantula: either has HP ice to complete coverage, or bug buzz.

Another thing you should note is that electric types are choiced a lot of the time to make them more effective in a volt turning core. This still of course does not make sceptile a safe switch in but rather makes your opponent think twice about going for volt switch as a sceptile with plus 1 in special attack is hitting everything really hard. Sceptile has enough speed to take an electric move an revenge kill. It is definitely enough for offense. So much in fact that it does not lose much opting for modest nature. Sceptile has no 'real' competition. It is very unique at what it does and it does its job well.

Also sceptile falls under the category of wall breaking and revenge killing. It has moves to break the most popular special wall in high ladder (Empoleon). FLorges is lower tier which specially defensive stops it. Leaf Storm hits florges hard and then you switch as it wishes ez pz. 252+ SpA Mega Sceptile Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 24+ SpD Florges: 156-184 (43.3 - 51.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery. Its pretty splashable too having only two offensive grass types that exceed the 108 speed mark.

 

[silenced]

I actually said it blocks rotom-C, so IDK why you would think I say otherwise...

I also do not understand this tier's infatuation with slapping specs/scarf on any electric type it sees. Seriously do people want to give mega-pert a free turn of rain set-up or easy SR usage from the various ground types that pack it? Deterring volt-switch is nice, but it shouldn't be coming down to a 50/50 guess in move choice and hoping everyone follows what I consider to be a daft trend.

Sceptile's grass type/mega slot is serious competition. I'd be very interested to know of any team that is stacking grass types on it, as I cannot think of any, even with mega-pidgeot banned AND the drop in usage of mega-aero and crobat occuring. It might be unique in all its traits, but its role is niche and does not provide nearly the quality support other offensive grass types can, while still hitting very hard without losing power or requiring to be manually switched out.

 

[Pipotchi]

we need to stop just listing a pokemon's ability, stats and typing for nominations :\ soon im expecting nominations like this:
Cofagrigus to B: http://www.smogon.com/dex/xy/pokemon/cofagrigus/

anyways, I feel like reuniclus could perhaps not be an S rank mon. While it is fantastic i feel i do have games where it is unable to participate, and in particular i think it can struggle with voltturn teams which a) often feature mega beedrill and trick, and b) require reuniclus to take two powerful hits before responding. Whats more, its fully susceptible to every taunt in the game along with any manner of bad luck from hax- I dont think its vulnerability to hax is enough on its own to hamper its viability, but it should be considered that reuniclus will always be tanking a hit first, and that can crit, flinch, cause troublesome status like paralysis, drop stats.. etc. Im not saying you should rely on luck to beat reuniclus, but being forced to move last puts you on a defensive footing and leaves you vulnerable to hax (for instance, at 60% if an attack is doing 29% max you are forced to recover incase crit if moving last- if moving first you have many more options). Also as Cactrune said, such low speed sets it up for revenge killing too.

Reuniclus has good defensive stats and I always see calcs mentioned like this as a good thing:
252 Atk Adaptability Mega Beedrill U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Reuniclus: 292-348 (68.8 - 82%)
However pure psychic typing isnt perfection, and to have that u-turn and knock off weakness in the first place can be a liability. Reuniclus isnt really a wall, its typing isnt good enough and its not rocking 120/120/130 defensive stats to make up for it- compared to Suicune as your CM wincon who can wall incredibly powerful physical atkers like entei and has a very good pure water typing. I cant splash reuniclus anywhere near as easily as suicune because of that (not to say that reuniclus is a particular struggle to incorporate, but its harder than suicune).

I still think reuni is huge in this tier. but that can still mean A+ rank imo. A+ is full of powerful, metagame-defining pokemon that can be very difficult to prepare for and eat teams that didnt prepare well enough

 

[DiscoDucky]

I'm gonna nom a mon usually seen as a noob mon, but fuck it. GALVANTULA TO B+.

we know what it does, so im not gonna get into that. What im more interested in is its underrated sticky webs in the metagame. right now a lot of teams carry fast or speed-boostin wincons like cobalion or feraligatr, or use fucking dumb fast pokemon (read beedrill) who abuse its speed tier for chip damage and revenge kills. sticky webs is interesting because it fucks with a lot of offensive playstyles, especially those with somewhat passive hazard control. if it can stay on the field long enough, sticky webs dismantles teams that rely on cobalion infernape chandelure or other stuff that is fast, grounded, and functions as a wincon. as for galvantula, its stabs are quite relevant as thunder does significant amounts to a lot of the water threats in the tier eg suicune or feraligatr and bg buzz hurts unboosted or even+1/+1 reuniclus. furthermore, 108 speed leaves it at some of the fastest speed tiers in the metagame. i think we give this mon too much flack for being a noobmon, but its decent in this meta.

 

[Adaam]

I actually said it blocks rotom-C, so IDK why you would think I say otherwise...

I also do not understand this tier's infatuation with slapping specs/scarf on any electric type it sees. Seriously do people want to give mega-pert a free turn of rain set-up or easy SR usage from the various ground types that pack it? Deterring volt-switch is nice, but it shouldn't be coming down to a 50/50 guess in move choice and hoping everyone follows what I consider to be a daft trend.

Sceptile's grass type/mega slot is serious competition. I'd be very interested to know of any team that is stacking grass types on it, as I cannot think of any, even with mega-pidgeot banned AND the drop in usage of mega-aero and crobat occuring. It might be unique in all its traits, but its role is niche and does not provide nearly the quality support other offensive grass types can, while still hitting very hard without losing power or requiring to be manually switched out.

UU has like 4 electrics lol. Amphy, the Rotoms, and Heliolisk. You are probably referring to the rotoms, and the reason why is their typing isn't good enough to run a fully defensive spread, and by running Specs, they become a huge pain to switch into because they can punish most ground switch ins with their secondary STAB or trick a special wall specs/scarf. Like I can't even think of any other item I would run on Rotom-C (at least Rotom-H can check fires but I also think defensive Rotom-H is shit).

You also mentioned Scep can't touch Forry, which is flat out wrong. 2HKOs with FB and OHKOs with HP fire.

Sceptile's role is NOT niche. It's speed is matched only by Bee and Aero which is really big, since it is a massive pain for offense. Something I noticed is the trend of running Mega Pert on offense as an Aero check, which is also notorious for killing offense. Sceptile basically destroys these teams by outspeeding the vast majority of the offensive meta and 2HKOing or OHKOing it. It can revenge kill SD and DD Gatr (at +1) due to its incredible speed which is HUGE. It outspeeds and OHKOs non scarf Mence, Hydra, Cobalion with Focus Blast, Azelf, 2HKOs Scarf Chandy, can even act as a knock off sponge, and despite its bulk, it IS a volt switch deterrant. What other grass can do that?

 

[YABO]

Hey everybody, It's been a bit since I've posted in here but I have some thoughts on a couple of the recent nominations that have popped up recently, particularly Sceptile and Reuniclus. Contrary to what everyone is saying I actually think that Sceptile could move up a rank in viability due to its sheer overwhelming speed and good power. Like many have cited so far, Sceptile outspeeds and destroys many offensive builds (something I've been saying for a long time now, glad everyone is catching up). This is invaluable in the tier that is shifting more towards a balanced style. Now what do I mean by this? Well, if the tier is shifting to a bulkier style, that means that offense is more focused on breaking common cores instead of trying to outpace and beat other offense. This can leave them very vulnerable to something like Sceptile coming in and just running over them with no problem. You may be thinking "well why is that relevant since offense is becoming less common, why do i care about beating it?", well I'm glad you asked. By adding a pokemon that is very strong versus offense on its own, you are essentially using a single team slot to heavily swing every matchup with offense in your favor. This is highly efficient and is definitely a good use of resources. The next logical place to go here is whether or not Sceptile maintains its viability versus other styles and I definitely say it does. One of my favorite ways to use Sceptile is on a balanced Spike Stacking team that focuses on maintaining pressure and hazards in order to weaken Sceptile's switch ins to the point where they get 2hko'd upon switch in. I have two really good replays showcasing this and I'll leave them here. Both of these take place on the ladder and showcase exactly what I just talked about.

Replays

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-261473164
In this game, I spike up early while drawing Florges in twice rapidly. I double switch to maintain pressure and set up rocks and 2hko Florges coming in with a Giga Drain + Leaf Storm combination. After that, my opponent only had one pokemon that outsped me (Darmanitan) and everything else would be 2hkod easily while darm is destroyed by hazards + FB recoil.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-261379138
This match more shows off Taunt + Wisp Chandelure as a really cool Blissey counter but it definitely involves Sceptile in a big way. Honestly, the game would have been even easier if I just blocked his Rapid Spin instead of Taunting since the extra Spike would have really put the pressure on. But anyways, after I lure and weaken Blissey with Taunt, it is promptly 2hko by Focus Blast on the switch and my opponent forfeits since most of his remaining members just die to Sceptile.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-261678336
I actually have one more replay here and it displays Sceptile being able to come in on Rotom-C several times in the match. Unfortunately, him leading Beedrill didn't let me mega early on so I didn't have Lightning Rod until late in the game, but once I got it, Rotom-C turned into a liability.

So like I was saying before, Sceptile is crazy strong versus offense while still being a terror versus balance so long as his team is backing him up. Defensively, Sceptile has a lot of cool niches like being a nice check to Krookodile, Rotom-C, and pretty much every water-type not carrying Ice coverage.

I would like to briefly touch on Reuniclus and why I wouldn't be surprised to see it rise to S rank. Reuniclus switches in freely versus EVERY passive mon in the tier bar Mandibuzz. Everything else is just begging for Reuniclus to come in and start setting up. In addition, it's nearly impossible to get damage to stick to Reuniclus so some of your things can 2hko it because of its immunity to entry hazards. Stacking entry hazards is a common strategy to avoid having to really deal with a lot of random bulky mons since taking 37% upon switch in kinda detracts from their threat level. This isn't the case with Reun who comes in freely and then forces the opponent into a very nerve racking mindgame of trying to switch in their dark type before Reun sets up too many Calm Minds. Earlier, whoever it was mentioned a lot of Reuniclus' so called counters. The only two reliable counters commonly used are Doublade and Mandibuzz and both of these can still lose depending on the scenario. Stuff like Jellicent and Roar Suicune just don't stack up in terms of handling it as shown in these replays where stopping Reun from Calm Minding simply left them taking too much damage and Reuniclus simply outlasted them.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-uu-82984
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-uu-82986
Side note but Doublade would've also gotten smashed in that second game since that was Shadow Ball Reun.

 

[DiscoDucky]

Just for validation that galvantule hurts reuni and cm cune hard:

252 SpA Life Orb Galvantula Bug Buzz vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Reuniclus: 242-283 (57 - 66.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Life Orb Galvantula Thunder vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 226-268 (55.9 - 66.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

[Omfuga]

Doublade (A- to A)
Mega absol (B+ to B)
Seismitoad (B+ to B)
Toxicroak (B+ to A-)
Jellicent (B to B+)
Braviary (C to unranked)

Everyone seemed to agree with most of these nominations... Absol and Qwilfish were the only ones that were slightly controversial. If you disagree with any of these changes, feel free to make an informed post about why and the pokemon might go back.

Discussion points:
Reuniclus (A+ to S)- Very controversial, but I think it's worth discussing.
Whims (A to A+)- One I personally disagree with, but some people in the thread have mentioned it.
Entei (A+ to A)- Another I disagree with. But people have suggested that Entei's impact has lessened in UU.
Florges (A to A+)- I believe florges was A+ once before... I think its passivity and 4mss disables it from being A+ material.


Iffy on most of these, but Reuniclus to S is very interesting. Reuniclus wasn't even UU by usage a few months ago, but I think it has a dominant grasp on the tier now. Surely the most interesting nomination, and I think it deserves discussion.

 

[Hogg]

I definitely disagree with Whimsicott, Entei and Florges moving.

Whimsicott and Florges are good examples of 'mons that are very good at what they do, but for all that are still limited in a way that the other things in A+ are not. Whimsicott's minimal offensive presence drastically holds it back, and while the threat of priority Encore and the haxy priority Stun Spore are incredibly threatening, they simply don't pressure a team in the same way that something like Mega-Bee (or anything else in A+ rank) does. Florges might have a case for it on the strength of it being both arguably the best cleric in the tier for most teams and having a neat CM set that does good work against more passive teams, but I still just can't see it quite at A+ rank.

Entei, on the other hand, has only one real set but is really, really good at this one set. It is up there alongside Mamoswine and Hydreigon as one of the biggest pain in the asses to switch into, and there are few threats that can as reliably pressure both bulky and offensive teams all at once. While I didn't really agree with it being S rank for the brief time it was there, I still think it is one of the top threats in the tier and can't agree with it moving down to A.

Reuniclus... dang, I really don't know what to think. Initially I was opposed to the idea, but when I tried to sit down here and type out my reasons, they all sounded pretty flimsy. Reuniclus is threatening as hell and has a lot of cool sets, even if everyone always runs more or less the same thing. I still feel kind of weird about it moving to S rank, but I'm having trouble finding good reasons as to why not.

 

[Wanka]

Whimsicott: Do I think it should get bumped? No. Do I think its close to a bump? Yes. I agree with hogg's general idea that whimsicott shouldn't get a bump to A+, but I do think that it is somewhat close. I do disagree with what hogg said about whims having minimal offensive presence. Life orb sets or other offensive sets are not that uncommon and with whimsi's speed and decent stab combo, a life orb set is a huge pain in the ass to switch into for offensive teams. Bulkier sets don't really provide all that much pressure, but I wouldn't be so naive to say whims as a whole provides "minimal offensive presence" because that just simply is not true. However I don't think it quite deserves A+, but I do not think it is far off from it either. It's a premier pivot in the tier and can provide tremendous support to a team with access to encore, u turn, and stun spore.

Florges: No bump for the fat flower. This one really shouldn't be a difficult decision. It does its job as a bulky wish passer for balance and provides cleric support. It is very good at that job, but nothing extraordinary enough to move to A+.

Entei: Still a massive threat in the metagame and I don't see it moving down anytime soon. It is sill for sure one of those mons that pops into your head first about checking when you are team building. With the immense pressure it applies to balance and offense there is no way the fire doge moves down.

Reun: I think everyone has mixed feelings on this and I do as well. I think whats telling me to wanna get it bumped to S is the fact that it has gained some versatility lately with it being able to run a multitude of sets and run them effectively. Those being life orb sets, CM sweeper, or even CM mono attacking T wave. All of these are very viable sets and can be used on a variety of styles whether it be offense or balance. That brings up its ability to be slapped on a good amount of teams and be instantly effective as another reason why I think a bump isn't an aweful idea.

However, the other side of me is saying that its just another bulky sweeper that can be prepared for by balance and offense. Mega beedrill has been getting a good amount of hype recently and I've started to slowly see more krooks as we go on as well. defensive encore whimsicott's are everywhere and can stop a sweep in its tracks and while it has above average bulk, it still can be overwhelmed at times by uu's top wallbreakers. I'm probably going to be hung up on this for a bit so I think it could go either way.

 

[nv]

Cottonball to A+ - I am in agreement with Hogg and iWanka in that while Whims is close to A+, it isn't really worth the A+ rank as of right now. In this metagame, Whimsicott can provide a ton of utility, but the problem with it in my opinion is right now it has to choose between using its typing for its defensive capabilities or its offensive capabilities. If it decides to invest its EVs into defense to check threats such as Hydreigon and Mamoswine, then Whimsicott loses out on a ton of power to beat threats such as Salamence as it loses out on on investing into its Speed stat. When it decides to invest in offense, it then loses out to supereffective priority such as Mamoswine's Ice Shard and it can't check the threats it wants to as well. Another problem is it really wants Life Orb to boost its power even further when in actuality it ends up losing out on U-turn because imo I hate running U-turn + Life Orb because it wears down Whims needlessly. So for now I feel Whimsicott should stay in A.

flowre to A+ - I disagree with this immensely and coming from a staple balance player, I feel like my opinion means more I should explain myself. When it comes down to it, balance has a lot of Wish passers. Defensive variants have Blissey, Alomomola, and Umbreon while offensive variants have this and...nothing else. I mean Vaporeon is a decent option for offensively oriented balance teams; however, Florges always seems to be the better pick. When it comes down to it though, most offensive balance teams tend to not need the Wish support as much as defensive balance teams since offensive balance relies on not only its ability to have switch ins to specific threats, but it uses its offensive pressure to keep the opposing team from overpowering them. And when looked at teams, most of the time offensively oriented teams find that Florges is the "momentum sucker" as it is very predictable, Taunt bait, and SubCM Chandelure bait. Overall, I believe that this beautiful flower should stay in A for the time being.

Fire doge to A - This will be short and sweet. No. Just nope. Wanna know why? Because as a balance player, this thing is always a goddamn pain to account for while I am teambuilding. I hate that I basically need not only a Fire resist, but I need either a Fire type (Chandelure or Rotom-H) or a mon who doesn't care about status and can fire back (Physically Defensive Umbreon). So this doge needs to stay in A+.

DNA to S - Ok so since everyone is on the fence about this, I am going to solidify my opinion on this. Reuniclus should be S rank and here is why. Reuniclus, while not UU via usage just a few months ago, has made an impressive stance in the UU tier. With many sets, like iWanka suggested, Reuniclus is very unpredictable to a certain extent. Reuniclus is also a really splashable Pokemon as it can fit on nearly every team as it has three amazing abilities (even tho Magic Guard overlaps Overcoat, rendering it useless, it is still a good ability), a decent boosting move with Calm Mind, and a great STAB that allows it to get around special walls in Psyshock. Another thing that Reuniclus has is the ability to check a lot of threats thanks to it not being worn down by hazards or status w/ Magic Guard and a great recovery move in Recover. This means even if it gets its item Knock'd Off it can still be a major threat and proceed to set up very easily. That is another thing Reuniclus has going for it is that it has many set up opportunities once certain threats are gone and / or weakened (Mega Bee, Heracross, Krookodile). Overall I feel like while it may be "presumptuous" since it hasn't been a "top threat" for long, I feel like Reun deserves S rank.

P.S. I will be posting about a certain bird (

) in the near future and how it should rise, but I will save that for a different post :)

 

[DiscoDucky]

I don't have much time but I think Entei to A might be aight. As sam pointed out, Suicune is starting to become one of the better defensive pivots on balance and some offensive teams. The ubiquity of Suicune and its ability to safely switch into entei with no ramifications merits it a temporary drop to A until RestTalk RoarCune phases our of style (no pun intended)

 

[DaSpoofy]

Mega Abomansow to A

I only did one nom this time around in hope it would be moved up or at least bashed for being wrong. Anyone opposed to this? Do you know what the council thinks Omfuga?

 

[Sam]

how have there been 3 posts about florges with only one passing reference to cm

that is the set that makes it a+