ORAS UU Viability Ranking Thread

[Wanka]

Entei A- to A:
choice banded entei i feel has been slowly arising as a very good powerhouse mon in the tier. now yes there are resists to sacred fire like bulky waters and dragon types like zygarde. but the burn chance is always in the back of the opponents mind and they know dealing with it isnt something they want. and even some bulky waters like vaporeon take a decent chunk from SF as well. so any viable grass type would go well with it as well to really pressure those water types. and E speed is always nice priority to clean up certain mons.

Absol A to A+:
now this one is a work in progress. with its ability to have knock off and play rough I feel absol can be a reborn threat in uu. I want to experiment with it more. as of late Ive been running pursuit over SD but im going to try both variants. I think the sd variant might be a little better because you can deal with fairys a bit better although florges can take a +2 play rough so it would have to be weakened. I really like the potential it has to be a big threat in UU and i feel it might pose itself for that A+ rank but we'll see.



+2 252 Atk Mega Absol Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Florges: 219-258 (60.8 - 71.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Mega Absol Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Empoleon: 391-462 (105.1 - 124.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Mega Absol Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Forretress: 201-237 (56.7 - 66.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Donphan: 157-186 (40.8 - 48.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Sacred Fire vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 135-159 (41.4 - 48.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

 

[HammerHeadKitty]

I think Nidoking should be moved down because nidoqueen outclasses it severely and it only really has one advantage, that it can be a mixed attacker. Nidoqueen not only has better bulk, but it hits harder due to the fact that it can run modest. B+/B rank would be much better suited for it imo.

 

[HT]

Gonna have to disagree with Nidoking moving down. Sure Nidoking does have less bulk, but it outspeeds some relevant threats like Adamant Lucario, Honchkrow, bulky coil Zygarde, and Mega Stoise (Stoise and Queen often have creep battles, but with King it's guaranteed). Also the argument that Nidoqueen hits harder than Nidoking isn't too valid since Timid Nidoking hits 269 while Modest Queen hits 273. The damage output isn't too significant to warrant that as a reason for dropping it.

Also want to bring back up Crobat for A+. Checks half the tier, great offensive defogger and momentum gainer. With Mega Punny gone I don't really see any reason it shouldn't move up.

 

[glock in my toyota]

I think Nidoking should be moved down because nidoqueen outclasses it severely and it only really has one advantage, that it can be a mixed attacker. Nidoqueen not only has better bulk, but it hits harder due to the fact that it can run modest. B+/B rank would be much better suited for it imo.

nidoking outspeeds queen, which gives it a huge advantage over it, and though queen is better in most cases, nidoking is a viable option, simply because it is faster.

 

[Schpoonman]

Nidoqueen is better versus stall and offense (by virtue of hitting harder and being able to absorb more hits) while Nidoking excels against balance, as they rarely carry something it cannot 2HKO. Nidoqueen obviously 2HKOs the same stuff, but more often it will be outsped and caught in a slugfest which it doesn't like very much.

 

[firehusky]

Don't know if someone brought this up already, but why is krookodile in 2 ranks?
It's in both A and A-, which doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[dingbat]

Don't know if someone brought this up already, but why is krookodile in 2 ranks?
It's in both A and A-, which doesn't make any sense to me.

because I suck at editing :s

Anyways, changes are being made atm

 

[TheTraininator]

Don't know if someone brought this up already, but why is krookodile in 2 ranks?
It's in both A and A-, which doesn't make any sense to me.

Because you can never have enough Krookodile.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

While I'm at it, can we talk about moving Diancie down from B-? I honestly have zero clue what this thing does well nor what it actually can do well. I can't think of a single thing Diancie does effectively right now. Yeah it sets up Rocks, can situationally counter Fletchinder and Mega Pidgeot, and maybe occasionally hit hard, but none of that really means much when there are way better Pokemon to do those jobs. I can't think of anything Diancie can really wall either other than the birds...I guess it walls um...Mega Absol? Outside of that it doesn't really wall anything because of its many weaknesses, and anything it does wall, there are other Pokemon that can do that such as Aromatisse, Granbull, and Rhyperior. I can't really see what Diancie does well in UU at all, so unless I'm missing something important, I cannot see Diancie being above C Rank, and I think that is much more fitting for it than B- is. I mean I have occasionally considered the other B- mons for a team and even some of the C mons, but there's a reason Diancie's usage is low, especially given I have made quite a few teams and not once have I actually considered using Diancie.

I also find P2 kinda out of place in B- because it doesn't really do anything except take hits but I'm definitely biased so...

Other than that most of this list looks fine for now, I think this is a really nice depiction of the meta as it stands.

 

[Chronobreak]

I think it's pretty safe to say MBeedrill can move to A+. Is is by far the best momentum grabber, hitting hard with STAB Adaptability U-turn, in addition to being a fast revenge killer, outstanding and terminating threats with a blistering 145 base speed. Overall, very effective, and a huge boon to HO teams.
Edit:Whoops wrong speed

 

[Schpoonman]

It has base 145 Speed. Still a threat, but notably outsped by max speed Mega Aerodactyl and Mega Alakazam. Speaking of, I think we need to start phasing out Adamant and Modest calcs for Aerodactyl and Alakazam, respectively.

 

[Skankovich]

Imma nominate Gourgeist-Super to B-

With its new found ORAS buffs Gourgeist does a lot of work in the tier. It deals with the large majority of physical attackers thanks to its huge physical bulk, so much so that common responses to grass types like support crobat can't even 2hko after leftovers, and jolly offensive aerodactyl only has a 1% chance to 2hko with aerial ace. Whereas in the past these almost-2hkos were dangerous to Gourgeist as it had no recovery, now it has it in synthesis, allowing it to switch into a plethora of threats, spread status or heal up and be safe to switch in again.
Furthermore, it was also granted Foul Play, allowing it to dent these physical mons it walls more. Entei and chandelure both take 30-40% and Darmanitan takes 50%, meaning that these common switchins and counters are quickly unable to switch in at all with rocks on the field.

Unfortunately, the large amount of dark types in the tier does hurt it, however the physical ones struggle to switchin or pursuit trap it with its access to will-o-wisp, while special ones like Dreigon are often worn down by its double-status in leech seed and will-o-wisp (also makes the likes of Umbreon and Blissey a far safer switchin when its superpower is neutered!).

About B- idk I looked at the mons in B and thought it would fit in, but decided to be a little more cautious (besides the lower b ranks seem like a mess rn anyway). Have a few replays, I'll edit in some more after I get some more decent ones:

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-195439489 - against Meowiekins, Gourgeist put a hell of a lot of work in here and avoided being trapped by Krook with WoW+predictions.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-195453746
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-196071963 - laptop overheated at the end of this one but gourgeist still put in work
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-196352166 - opponent was bad but with a fairy in tow DD Hax couldn't use outrage, leaving it hopelessy walled by Gourgeist as it only had poison and ground coverage.

 

[HT]

Dugtrio B+ ---> B/B-
Honestly just isn't as good as it used to be in XY. I hardly ever see Duggy anymore, and I know that usage doesn't directly correlate to viability, but it does give some insight to how much worse it is in ORAS. I used to be a big fan of the little guy, but now whenever I can use Duggy I nearly always find myself using Pursuit Krook over it since they essentially trap the same things and Intimidate + Knock off utility are too good to pass up. Not to mention that Duggy can't trap Bronzong or Chandy unless you're running pursuit and even then Pursuit doesn't OHKO Chandy on the switch out. Base 80 attack is piss weak, you basically have to run a Banded set to reliably get KO's on things like Defensive Tenta and Ampharos. And then by locking yourself into EQ you lose a ton of momentum by being forced to switch out on a levitator/flying type. Obviously you can run things like Life Orb and Earth Plate, but they're still quite weak, I've been pretty frustrated when I miss out on OHKOing Tentacruel because LO isn't strong enough.

 

[Pearl]

View attachment 32070Dugtrio B+ ---> B/B-
Honestly just isn't as good as it used to be in XY. I hardly ever see Duggy anymore, and I know that usage doesn't directly correlate to viability, but it does give some insight to how much worse it is in ORAS. I used to be a big fan of the little guy, but now whenever I can use Duggy I nearly always find myself using Pursuit Krook over it since they essentially trap the same things and Intimidate + Knock off utility are too good to pass up. Not to mention that Duggy can't trap Bronzong or Chandy unless you're running pursuit and even then Pursuit doesn't OHKO Chandy on the switch out. Base 80 attack is piss weak, you basically have to run a Banded set to reliably get KO's on things like Defensive Tenta and Ampharos. And then by locking yourself into EQ you lose a ton of momentum by being forced to switch out on a levitator/flying type. Obviously you can run things like Life Orb and Earth Plate, but they're still quite weak, I've been pretty frustrated when I miss out on OHKOing Tentacruel because LO isn't strong enough.

dunno if Dugtrio should drop all the day down to B-, but I can confirm that Krookodile is a god in the current metagame (to the point where I'd go as far as bumping it to A+), since it benefits heavily from the removal of both Gallade and Lopunny from UU, provides an actual defensive backbone due to its typing and ability and a fuckton of utility thanks to the previously mentioned stuff, Knock Off, Pursuit and Taunt. It also pairs up well with some of the Pokemon that might be on the rise, such as Mega Pidgeot and Mienshao.

With that said, I'm actually not sure whether Krook does deserve to rise or not, but Dugtrio just isn't the same thing as it was back in XY, so it wouldn't hurt dropping it to B I guess

 

[YABO]

Imma nominate Gourgeist-Super to B-

With its new found ORAS buffs Gourgeist does a lot of work in the tier. It deals with the large majority of physical attackers thanks to its huge physical bulk, so much so that common responses to grass types like support crobat can't even 2hko after leftovers, and jolly offensive aerodactyl only has a 1% chance to 2hko with aerial ace. Whereas in the past these almost-2hkos were dangerous to Gourgeist as it had no recovery, now it has it in synthesis, allowing it to switch into a plethora of threats, spread status or heal up and be safe to switch in again.
Furthermore, it was also granted Foul Play, allowing it to dent these physical mons it walls more. Entei and chandelure both take 30-40% and Darmanitan takes 50%, meaning that these common switchins and counters are quickly unable to switch in at all with rocks on the field.

Unfortunately, the large amount of dark types in the tier does hurt it, however the physical ones struggle to switchin or pursuit trap it with its access to will-o-wisp, while special ones like Dreigon are often worn down by its double-status in leech seed and will-o-wisp (also makes the likes of Umbreon and Blissey a far safer switchin when its superpower is neutered!).

About B- idk I looked at the mons in B and thought it would fit in, but decided to be a little more cautious (besides the lower b ranks seem like a mess rn anyway). Have a few replays, I'll edit in some more after I get some more decent ones:

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-195439489 - against Meowiekins, Gourgeist put a hell of a lot of work in here and avoided being trapped by Krook with WoW+predictions.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-195453746

My plan of flinching everything to death failed...Anyways, I second the move to B- or at least replacing Trevenant's C rank spot. Trevenant has always been meh but a mon with similar bulk, the same typing, access to reliable recovery severely eclipses it. The only niche that I could see Trevenant having would be gimmicky sets like Starf berry or a Rest set that provides status immunity. Anything else seems to be a worse Gourgeist atm

 

[sickweare]

What do you guys think of Mega Houndoom rising? Some of its biggest checks in M-Diancie and M-Altaria have departed, leaving it unchecked by a large amount of the tier. It has a very nice speed tier, and useful moves like Taunt and Will-O-Wisp to play around stall and its physical checks. It gets pretty boned by M-Lop, but it can put up a pretty decent fight against Gallade, since it outspeeds and can cripple with WoW or Fire Blast it if it's low on health, and nothing switching in likes a Fire Blast (Rhyperior is a solid check to it though). Overall, it still sees a lesser amount of use due to the ubiquity of things like Lopunny and Scarf Mienshao, but there aren't very many good switch-ins to it (I can name Blissey and Rhyperior as good switchins, but Blissey still hates Taunt and Rhyperior won't take a Dark Pulse too well when Mega Dog can switch into a check). It seems effective to me and I think B- might be a better fit, but I'd like to hear opinions from others too.

Quoting myself with my previous argument to raise Mega Houndoom out of C-rank. Now that the fairies that were running hog-wild (M-Altaria, M-Diancie, Togekiss), and other megas that competed for the spot (Gallade, Lopunny) are gone, Mega Doom emerges as an excellent choice for a mega, and certainly doesn't stand on the same ground as other C-rank mons. It's an excellent stall-breaker and special sweeper, even utilizing a flame charge set makes it not be checked by things like Scarf Shao. It still competes for a mega slot and has trouble with some common Pokemon like Hydreigon and Suicune, but overall I think its usefulness means it could move back up to the B rankings. Although B is ideal, I'd like to nom it to B-.

 

[thegrovylekid]

Roserade: A- -> A
Roserade seems to be the neglected Pokémon of this tier. People know it's good, but always pass it up in favour of something else, it seems. What makes Roserade good is its huge movepool, amazing special attack stat, and decent special defense stat. Roserade works as whatever you need for your team.

Hazard setter
Roserade
Item: Focus Sash
Ability: Poison point/Natural cure
Nature: Timid
Moves:
Toxic spikes
Giga drain
Sludge bomb
Extrasensory/Shadow ball/Dazzling gleam/Hidden power [any type]
EVs: 252 Speed/148 HP/108 SpA

The idea behind this Roserade set is to set up toxic spikes, and then deal as much damage as possible before going down by using a variety of moves to hit a variety of weaknesses. Its monsterous special attack stat means that it can consitently OHKO or 2HKO anything that tries to switch in that doesn't resist it. For instance,

108 SpA Roserade Shadow Ball vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Chandelure: 168-198 (64.1 - 75.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
108 SpA Roserade Dazzling Gleam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Haxorus: 204-242 (69.3 - 82.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Not the most impressive, but the point of this Roserade is to set up toxic spikes to cripple the rest of your opponent's team. If you already have a spiker, there's this set:

All-out leaf storm
Roserade
Item: Choice specs/Power herb
Nature: Modest
Ability: Natural cure/Technican
Moves:
Leaf storm
Hidden power [any type]/Sludge bomb/Dazzling gleam/Giga drain/Extrasensory
Hidden power [any type]/Sludge bomb/Dazzling gleam/Giga drain/Extrasensory
Hidden power [any type]/Sludge bomb/Dazzling gleam/Giga drain/Extrasensory
EVs: 252 Speed/252 SpA/4 HP

The point of this set is simple: Use leaf storm or one of your coverage moves, switch out, and come back in to steal a KO. while some may argue the viability of this set, let's look at the stats:
252 SpA Roserade Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 140 SpD Mega Blastoise: 324-384 (89.5 - 106%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO

Of course, if you go with the Power herb, you have the freedom of using your other moves at the cost of power, but the point of this set is to steal a KO, then switch out and wait until the next time it can. Roserade is a Pokémon you model around what your team needs. If your team has trouble getting OHKO's put a toxic spikes Roserade on your team to help that. Does your team struggle against a Pokémon weak to grass or poison? Leaf storm of Sludge bomb away. While Roserade is slightly on the slow side and dies to a physical hit, most of it;s checks and a few of it's counters it has the wide movepool to deal with.

 

[ShatteredSummers]

I think you mean White Herb.

 

[Pokemoon]

So for the Viability Ranking, I need everyone to stay still!
... :/

it's to happy to stop, don't worry about it

 

[Arch]

Not totally sold on Roserade hopping up to A.

Entry hazards not named stealth rock are suffering right now. With the ever present Crobat, Aerodactyl, Empoleon, and Tentacruel, hazards are harder than ever to keep on the field. Let alone a multi-turn entry hazard like Toxic Spikes. I think A- is currently a pretty accurate position for it, and I just don't see what is essentially a borderline suicide lead set changing that. Defoggers are very popular right now, and considering basically ever defogger either checks / counters / is immune to t-spikes, Roserade is on an uphill trudge.

And, while Roserade does hit pretty hard with your special attacking set, it still runs into serious issues with the likes of Jirachi, who can soak up even shadow ball and proceed to massacre it with iron head / zen heabutt. Roserade's speed tier has also gotten a little worse since the current meta has a big speed fetish where base 90 falls short pretty often. Plus, with Crobat, Aerodactyl and Mienshao showing up on most teams nowadays (all of them outspeed and carry moves that will OHKO) Roserade, while it has good typing, falls a little short of A rank from an offensive standpoint imo.

tl;dr Roserade hasn't gotten better since the fairies left. While M-Gallade's departure was good for it, M-Gallade was just one of several popular mons that gave Roserade problems on multiple fronts.

 

[UU ALL DAY]

I wouldn't say Roserade should be A ranked. A- is perfect for it.

Considering how good flying types are (Torn, Crobat, Mega-Aero), and things like Mega/Regular Alakazam, Infernape, Darm, etc are, I do not see Roserade being higher than A-. The specially or mixed defensives sets are an okay pivot against Vapeoron and Suicine, but those are usually paired up with Crobat to soak up Grass type moves :S

That isn't the strongest argument, I know, but the reason I think Roserade actually got worse is because of Zygarde. Fast Coil Zygarde can outspeed and sub on the leaf storm, because roserade is strapped for options, since it runs Leaf Storm, Sludge Bomb, and HP Fire/Sleep Powder + Rest

All in all, I think Arch summed it up pretty spot on. Roserade should stay A-

 

[Pent]

Zygarde from S --> A+.

My reasoning for this is that Zygarde gets walled by a lot of UU Pokemon, and it really needs Choice Band or one DD to really put in work. Many Pokemon in UU hurt Zygarde heavily.

Examples of Threats to Zygarde.

Florges - The Fairy is a dangerous way of the Dragon, and it hurts Zygarde rather heavily. If played right, you can either stall it out, or go Offensive with Moonblast.

Mega Absol - Depending on what set you're running, you could have either Ice Beam or Play Rough, which both do a lot of damage.

Life Orb Starmie - Ice Beam hurts Zygarde, and almost 100% of the time, OHKOs it from Starmie.

Crocune - It truly depends on the set you're running, wether it be CM Scald, or some other weird ass set, that potential Burn really Cripples Zygarde.

Noivern - A Choice Specs Draco Meteor hits Zygarde like a Car would a person.

Hydreigon - Mainly Noivern's reason.

BD Unburden Slurpuff: Not too common in UU, but I've seen some really weird shit. If Slurpuff is good in AG, it sure as hell can do good in UU.

Manual Rain - I've seen MSwampert run Rain Dance, and then you can just use Ice Punch.


Anything with HP Ice.

The main problem the I have with Zygarde being a S rank is mainly all of his counters/checks. He has so many threats that make him not too usable. I've played a lot of UU and rarely see Zygarde. 3/10 teams, if that, use him.

 

[DiscoDucky]

I wouldn't say Roserade should be A ranked. A- is perfect for it.

Considering how good flying types are (Torn, Crobat, Mega-Aero), and things like Mega/Regular Alakazam, Infernape, Darm, etc are, I do not see Roserade being higher than A-. The specially or mixed defensives sets are an okay pivot against Vapeoron and Suicine, but those are usually paired up with Crobat to soak up Grass type moves :S

That isn't the strongest argument, I know, but the reason I think Roserade actually got worse is because of Zygarde. Fast Coil Zygarde can outspeed and sub on the leaf storm, because roserade is strapped for options, since it runs Leaf Storm, Sludge Bomb, and HP Fire/Sleep Powder + Rest

All in all, I think Arch summed it up pretty spot on. Roserade should stay A-

You've clearly forgot about bird Jesus.

 

[Pent]

You've clearly forgot about bird Jesus.

This.

 

[glock in my toyota]

Zygarde from S --> A+.

My reasoning for this is that Zygarde gets walled by a lot of UU Pokemon, and it really needs Choice Band or one DD to really put in work. Many Pokemon in UU hurt Zygarde heavily.

Examples of Threats to Zygarde.

Florges - The Fairy is a dangerous way of the Dragon, and it hurts Zygarde rather heavily. If played right, you can either stall it out, or go Offensive with Moonblast.

Mega Absol - Depending on what set you're running, you could have either Ice Beam or Play Rough, which both do a lot of damage.

Life Orb Starmie - Ice Beam hurts Zygarde, and almost 100% of the time, OHKOs it from Starmie.

Crocune - It truly depends on the set you're running, wether it be CM Scald, or some other weird ass set, that potential Burn really Cripples Zygarde.

Noivern - A Choice Specs Draco Meteor hits Zygarde like a Car would a person.

Hydreigon - Mainly Noivern's reason.

BD Unburden Slurpuff: Not too common in UU, but I've seen some really weird shit. If Slurpuff is good in AG, it sure as hell can do good in UU.

Manual Rain - I've seen MSwampert run Rain Dance, and then you can just use Ice Punch.


Anything with HP Ice.

The main problem the I have with Zygarde being a S rank is mainly all of his counters/checks. He has so many threats that make him not too usable. I've played a lot of UU and rarely see Zygarde. 3/10 teams, if that, use him.

The fact that you say only DD and CB do work is preposterous lmao.
Subcoil completely and utterly destroys unprepared team, and beats a fuck ton of the "counters" you named here(Literally ONE of these sets beats Subcoil). Zygarde should be banned imo, due to overcentralization, and the fact that you are completely forgetting or disregarding it's most potent set is ridiculous. Literally every team has to have an answer to SubCoil Zyg, or youre done. Not to mention that literally no one should run Choice Banded Zygarde.