ORAS UU Viability Ranking Thread

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I want to dislike Emboar because he's a ludicrously high-risk, high-reward Pokemon that seems to reward timing over consistency all the time. However, with the current metagame in UU, it's tough to do so. Frankly the tier is so fat, and the ability to straight up pop holes in half the common pokes in the tier is incredible. I was thinking of him as a worse Entei but that's not really the case, LO allows him to switch which is not available on Entei.

Our sacred fire spammer is another relatively high risk/reward mon, but one who straight up can't break through certain targets (though nothing in the tier wants to take a SF no matter what. The burn can give such ludicrous momentum). I'd like to try out Emboar a bit more though, and see just how situational his usefulness is... I can see him being a solid plug for teams that struggle with certain pokemon just due to how high he can ramp up the damage (Swampert, Suicune, Blastoise). It's a weird world where the bulkiest waters in the tier have to watch switching in.

All in all I don't think he'll end up being one I use much.. just don't like the idea of being able to use him once, maybe twice all battle due to recoil/life orb/hazard/slowness. And he's hardly going to be a mon you wish back alive very often, I think. But there's going to be cases where the ability to straight up dent a team, at a cost to your own obviously, is going to be incredibly useful.

Probably will end up rated B, B+.
 

r0ady

People like to invent monsters and monstrosities
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If you're not running scald on LO set, you're doing it wrong.

Yea, as I said way before Reckless Pig came out, Emboar is really nothing special. It's a fun toy for lower ladder to use. However, UU has such a saturated market for Fire and Fighting type wallbreakers such that Emboar's Reckless Flare Blitz isn't anything worth noting. Furthermore, I find that GameFreak was kinda trollish in not giving Emboar Submission to use in conjunction with Reckless.
High jump kick* because we all wanna see this thing majestically fly through the air and kick a blissey in the face
 
What I liked about Pig in theory (since I haven't seen it being used or used it myself) was that it acted like a much slower, significantly frailer Mixtini, but with perks of its own, them being Sucker Punch, SR neutrality (I know, having its main STAB cause recoil kinda conflicts with that), and not being Pursuit-trappable—meaning you can technically get more than one kill against offense, although I guess that's also a pretty poor perk. Like, if you compare the damage of Lonely Pig with that of Naive Victini, Reckless Flare Blitz and Wild Charge outdamage V-create and Bolt Strike by a little bit, while GK does the same damage obviously.
I dunno if I'd use LO or Charcoal/E-Belt because recoil, but the damage is pretty nice:

252+ Atk Life Orb Reckless Emboar Wild Charge vs. 200 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 320-377 (70.9 - 83.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Victini Bolt Strike vs. 200 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 304-359 (67.4 - 79.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Life Orb Emboar / Victini Grass Knot (100 BP) vs. 212 HP / 0 SpD Mega Swampert: 348-411 (88.3 - 104.3%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Reckless Emboar Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 175-208 (53.8 - 64%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Victini V-create vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 174-205 (53.5 - 63%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

And a nice one imo (which sadly needs LO):

252+ Atk Life Orb Emboar Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dugtrio: 208-246 (98.5 - 116.5%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

Now I'm not in any way implying that Emboar shouldn't run Superpower or anything like that (it'd prolly be used over GK, since Wild Charge is needed to break through Vap and Mola, but it can be argued I guess), before anyone comments on that. But as an all-out attacker, I feel it at least has a niche in being a mini-tini.
 

nv

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Well after doing Research Week, I can vouch for the fact that Pig's only niche may be the fact that it is a frailer MixTini as it can easily run Flare Blitz and Wild Charge to abuse its new ability, Reckless, Grass Knot to bop the Water/Grounds trying to switch in, and Sucker Punch to bop faster threats that tend to switch in to revenge kill such as Dugtrio and Alakazam. It does have its own perks as Ernesto said but being frailer than Tini means it is worn down a lot easier as well.

Overall I am in agreement with everyone that Emboar should be B-/B rank as it is really good at what it does but there are mons in UU that can do the job such as Machamp being a better bulkier Fighting- type, Entei being the better bulkier Fire- type, and Infernape being the better mixed attacker. If you want "bulk" and a mixed attacker, then Emboar is the bacon pig for you.
 

Deej Dy

Verified Ladder Scurb 乁( ◔ ౪◔)ㄏ
Hey I'm new to the tier, but have a great deal of NU experience, thought I'd nominate Cresselia, (DUCKMOON) for A rank.

1. It's ridiculously easy to sub on half the tier and most attacks that aren't SE fail to break its huge bulky subs.
2. It wins vs Crocune always 1v1 even on the switch +1 scalds don't break subs and you win the CM wars with Psyshock of your own.
3. Once you get rid of Steels (why S rank isn't viable) it becomes pretty easy to sweep, especially with the UU tendencies toward bulky offense, moon blast is great coverage for dark types and bops people who underestimate Cress and send in Hydreigon
4. Main concerns are infiltrator from Chandelure besides bulky steels (Crobat is barely a threat).
Worth noting that it functions better with wish and heal bell support, and a mon that can absorb dark physical attacks, creating a great walling duo

I'm still actively testing on my account Deejtest, I'll probably post some replays and calcs later, but so far I've Cress swept in a good 1/3 of my games. Hope to get to know this tier better in the future ;)
 
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yea id second that cress nom. even when megacham most likely leaves, itll still be great bulky condition who's darm hard to break and has an excellent fighting resist. i like to run moonlight over sub however, as u can further utilise that amazing bulk at the cost of being more prone to status. also flash fire is the more optimal ability on chandelure.
 
I disagree with Cress for A rank. While it is definitely an amazing pokemon with great late game sweeping potential, it requires more support than the A rank pokemon in order to be effective. It can lacks immediate power and gets crippled and KO'd by status' especially since moonlight has quite limited PP.
 
the sub cm set is the best set so, the whole thing about status becomes pretty moot. idk if A is the best rank for it too, as its hard to clear conditions for it since shit like rachi is so common and it completely walls sets like those. Things like Krook and Hydra check and those are on every other team. I do use Cress myself but I def dont see it to be on the same level as the other A Rank mons. B+ is the most accurate i see for it
 
the sub cm set is the best set so, the whole thing about status becomes pretty moot. idk if A is the best rank for it too, as its hard to clear conditions for it since shit like rachi is so common and it completely walls sets like those. Things like Krook and Hydra check and those are on every other team. I do use Cress myself but I def dont see it to be on the same level as the other A Rank mons. B+ is the most accurate i see for it
To be fair Cress could easily run Moonblast on SubCM set to pop Hydre and Krook. Rachi is a pain, but what can you do? But, the biggest killjoy for SubCM Cress is Infiltrator mons like Noivern, Crobat and Spiritomb, which can use Toxic to ruin it. Bulky Bat has a significant chance to survive the +2 Psyshock from Cress..

+2 0 SpA Cresselia Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Crobat: 326-386 (87.3 - 103.4%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

On a different note, Yanmega can completely tear things up in this meta. It's nice to see that's an A Ranked mon. Very deserving IMO.

Also, why is Entei S Rank? I know it's good with Sacred Fire, ESpeed and Bulk, but just really curious..
 
Popular opinion is that Sacred Fire is literally good enough to push a Pokemon to S. I saw Namehtmas list that solely in a post as the reason. Obviously, Extreme Speed and good bulk are also what make Entei good, but the overwhelming argument for Entei to be placed into S is Sacred Fire.
 
Nominating Victreebel/Shiftry for C rank(or C- if it existed)

Been playing around with a sun team for a bit and these two mons are certainly viable under those rays. Both of them hit surprisingly hard and wreak havoc against offensive teams and can find certain setup opportunities against bulkier teams, especially when factoring Memento support which should be a staple on sun. They are pretty much the best Chlorophyll users we have though I have yet to test others. For now I can see them on par in ranking with Swift Swimmer's like Kabutops and Omastar. Sun is viable. Praise it.

EDIT:http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-205416680 Praise the sun.
 
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Nominating Victreebel/Shiftry for C rank(or C- if it existed)

Been playing around with a sun team for a bit and these two mons are certainly viable under those rays. Both of them hit surprisingly hard and wreak havoc against offensive teams and can find certain setup opportunities against bulkier teams, especially when factoring Memento support which should be a staple on sun. They are pretty much the best Chlorophyll users we have though I have yet to test others. For now I can see them on par in ranking with Swift Swimmer's like Kabutops and Omastar. Sun is viable. Praise it.

EDIT:http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-205416680 Praise the sun.
I believe the term is "salute the sun."
- Wii fit trainer 2015
 
At that rate, Leafeon should go under C-Rank if not higher - impressive attack stat unto itself, and actually better defensively than Shiftry across both and Victreebell across physical with only 5 BP difference in Special, plus it's faster without Chlorophyll. The problem is it's movepool, which makes little use of it's good attack and speed, though typically SD and Leaf Blade are all one needs, though Knock Off and Iron Tail both exist as a viable thing.
So basically
-Faster With or Without Chlorophyll
-Better Attack
-Better Defense
-Bad but somewhat usable Movepool
 
This is gonna sound really misleading, but "praise the sun" is from Demon's Soul/Dark Souls. No, I don't play them, just have a lot of friends that do and I'm way too familiar with internet memes.

Swift Swim/Chlorophyll teams historically mess up heavy/hyper offense REALLY badly, so I'm skeptical with one replay. Now, if you get a Growth in with Victreebel or Shiftry (if you're carrying it) then you can do work against stall and maybe bulky offense, but the problem with bulky offense is that both Victreebel and Shiftry are paper thin. They're a little like Mega Absol and Beedrill in that they're fast and powerful, but get 2HKO'd if you look at them funny.

Now, onto Leafeon. Leafeon actually has worse special bulk than Victreebel and Shiftry, by a fair margin. You missed how Leafeon has significantly worse HP than either Chloromon that st123 mentioned. Meanwhile, because Leafeon has such a poor Special movepool and stat, it can't go mixed while Victreebel and Shiftry can to beat could-be counters, or at least soften them up for another teammate to beat.

All that being said, I'm against Leafeon making the Rankings at all, but would like to see more replays of Victreebel and Shiftry before I make any more judgement calls. Shiftry also has Defog to help deal with hazards which historically mess up Sun teams.
 
Not to mention the depth of Victreebell's movepool, Weatherball is a fantastic move to have on a dedicated Chlorophyll sunsweeper, letting the big plant move through mons like Jirachi and Mega Aggron who would otherwise wall it to hell.
 
Nominating Victreebel/Shiftry for C rank(or C- if it existed)

Been playing around with a sun team for a bit and these two mons are certainly viable under those rays. Both of them hit surprisingly hard and wreak havoc against offensive teams and can find certain setup opportunities against bulkier teams, especially when factoring Memento support which should be a staple on sun. They are pretty much the best Chlorophyll users we have though I have yet to test others. For now I can see them on par in ranking with Swift Swimmer's like Kabutops and Omastar. Sun is viable. Praise it.

EDIT:http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-205416680 Praise the sun.
Can confirm, Victreebell and sun in general is decently anti-meta and Victreebell is incredibly difficult to switch into with the right team support. I'm not saying this because st123 pushed by shit in with that team at all, nope.

If anything, Victreebell should be tossed into C just to acknowledge that it can work under certain circumstances like the rest of C rank.
 
So what makes Machamp A+? Dynamic Punch?

That, and bending over the meta with choice banded Close Combats, while having an additional strap-on for anything that would want to switch-in with heavy slam, Ice punch, Knock off, and other sheit too.

And it has nice bulk with assault vest too.

But tbh, it's just cause we like his sexy six-pack
Also Guts Machamp can switch in and 2HKO most bulky Water-types in the tier with no fear of burns thanks to Guts, and bulky Water-types are pretty Cook inUU
Haha thanks! <3
 
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So what makes Machamp A+? Dynamic Punch?
That, and bending over the meta with choice banded Close Combats, while having an additional strap-on for anything that would want to switch-in with heavy slam, Ice punch, Knock off, and other sheit too.

And it has nice bulk with assault vest too.

But tbh, it's just cause we like his sexy six-pack
 

Ununhexium

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Also Guts Machamp can switch in and 2HKO most bulky Water-types in the tier with no fear of burns thanks to Guts, and bulky Water-types are pretty Cook inUU
 
Since we're speaking on the subject of weather sweepers, should't Kabutops be moved up to B/B-? Stoutland another weather-dependent sweeper is up there and imo, Kabutops in rain can be almost as or more terrifying than sanddoge. I'm kinda new to the viability rankings discussion so feel free to slap me on the wrist if I'm completely wrong about this.
 
Kabutops can be terrifying outside of rain, too, with the right support. Aqua jet even without Swords Dance is still pretty beastly at 300-something attack, and it's priority stab. However, I don't think it has enough going for it outside of a certain niche, so I'd think C-Rank is fine for it until something pulls it up.
 
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