I did not use a psychic attack, just ran enough evs to out speed honch. Usually the opponent thinks honch is quicker than Mesprit and doesn't sucker punch.
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ORAS UU Viability Ranking Thread
- Thread starter dingbat
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Hoping the opponent chokes isn't a strategy. Bad plays don't make a Pokemon more viable. I'm curious to know what EV spread you're running since nothing you're saying is making much sense.
Nomintating porygon 2 to b or b+ rank
This is mainly because p2 is EASILY the best and most reliable counter to mence, being able to switch into any all of forms of it and ko with ice beam
252 Atk Salamence Outrage vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Eviolite Porygon2: 105-124 (28 - 33.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
+1 252+ Atk Salamence Outrage vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Eviolite Porygon2: 172-204 (45.9 - 54.5%) -- 54.3% chance to 2HKO
not sure what spread mixed sets run but max modest does about half with draco so i doubt thatll break it.
12 SpA Porygon2 Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Salamence: 332-392 (100.3 - 118.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Now yeah countering one mon probably isnt enough to move up, but p2 can take on many top tier mons such as crobat, aerodactyle, hydreigon (well high roll lo draco could be bad on phys def set), nidoqueen, mega pidg, shaymin, mega swampert,mega bee if healthy, mega shark, and yanmega.
This thing is just a great mon to check alot of things atm
(some of the mons i mentioned the set i used with the mence calc can be tweaked to deal with all of these mons a lot easier)
This is mainly because p2 is EASILY the best and most reliable counter to mence, being able to switch into any all of forms of it and ko with ice beam
252 Atk Salamence Outrage vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Eviolite Porygon2: 105-124 (28 - 33.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
+1 252+ Atk Salamence Outrage vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Eviolite Porygon2: 172-204 (45.9 - 54.5%) -- 54.3% chance to 2HKO
not sure what spread mixed sets run but max modest does about half with draco so i doubt thatll break it.
12 SpA Porygon2 Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Salamence: 332-392 (100.3 - 118.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Now yeah countering one mon probably isnt enough to move up, but p2 can take on many top tier mons such as crobat, aerodactyle, hydreigon (well high roll lo draco could be bad on phys def set), nidoqueen, mega pidg, shaymin, mega swampert,mega bee if healthy, mega shark, and yanmega.
This thing is just a great mon to check alot of things atm
(some of the mons i mentioned the set i used with the mence calc can be tweaked to deal with all of these mons a lot easier)
I apologize for a poorly worded post, let's try this again. Here are a more thorough reasons why Mesprit is underwhelming in uu.
Pros of Mesprit:
-Nice coverage with access to CM (Ice beam, Psyshock, Energy Ball, Signal Beam, etc)
- Decent bulk.
Scarf Chandy does ~70% if you are special defensive. Then you can twave Chandy and proceed to Healing Wish or U-turn
-Stealth Rocks with Levitate ability
-Access to being a mediocre pivot.
Cons:
-Lack of Recovery
- Common Weaknesses (dark types like Hydreigon, Bug types like mega bee)
-Better Healing Wish users out class Mesprit. (Alomolola, Lunar Dance cress)
-Many of its checks are hard to play around (Pursuit users, any dark type, sucker punch, u-turn)
-Mesprit having a low speed, which doesn't aid it being able to sweep If a CM set.
Overall, there is better mons that play the roll of using Healing Wish due to their bulk and reliable recovery. Mesprit has SR and better offensive move pools however. I honestly do not think Mesprit niche in uu is any better than Cress or any other mon that plays the same roll as Mesprit were to as a Healing Wish user. I do not think Mesprit should be ranked at all. (I changed my mind from my other post)
Crobat moving to S seems like a logical conclusion, it is a fantastic check/sometimes-counter to the new monster wallbreaker Heracross. It was already one of if not the best Pokemon in the tier, and Heracross just made it better.
Hydreigon should fall ranks, not rise. It is revenged 100% of the time by Salamence (unless you have Tailwind support or are behind a Sub), which only serves as Moxie food. Salamence's drop just made it worse. Heracross and Salamence dropping at the same time has made the tier shift slightly from being a specially defensive party to physically defensive, opening up room for special attackers, but Hydreigon struggles to make a mark when one of the new toys eats it all day every day.
Hydreigon should fall ranks, not rise. It is revenged 100% of the time by Salamence (unless you have Tailwind support or are behind a Sub), which only serves as Moxie food. Salamence's drop just made it worse. Heracross and Salamence dropping at the same time has made the tier shift slightly from being a specially defensive party to physically defensive, opening up room for special attackers, but Hydreigon struggles to make a mark when one of the new toys eats it all day every day.
I disagree with Crobat to S: it does check Heracross, but it's also complete fodder for Mega Aerodactyl, which is one of the top threats in UU right now. A+ is a really good spot for it because yes it is very good, but it does come with flaws that hold it back from S.
As for Hydreigon, I really disagree with it dropping...being revenge killed by Scarf Salamence is not a reason to drop its rank. In fact I've found that in preparing for Salamence, many balance teams are more unprepared for Life Orb Hydreigon than they were before. I can definitely understand if people don't want it to rise, but in no way do I think that Salamence's presence in the tier should make it drop to A. Hydreigon's Scarf set has its perks over Scarf Salamence as well: U-turn, neutrality to Stealth Rock, access to a strong STAB without locking into Outrage, and dual STAB, while still being reasonably bulky with a good set of resistances unlike other Scarfers like Mienshao and Infernape.
As for Hydreigon, I really disagree with it dropping...being revenge killed by Scarf Salamence is not a reason to drop its rank. In fact I've found that in preparing for Salamence, many balance teams are more unprepared for Life Orb Hydreigon than they were before. I can definitely understand if people don't want it to rise, but in no way do I think that Salamence's presence in the tier should make it drop to A. Hydreigon's Scarf set has its perks over Scarf Salamence as well: U-turn, neutrality to Stealth Rock, access to a strong STAB without locking into Outrage, and dual STAB, while still being reasonably bulky with a good set of resistances unlike other Scarfers like Mienshao and Infernape.
I have to echo dodmen's sentiments here as well. Crobat is one of the top tier Pokemon in the tier, but it faces stiff competition against the other S rank slots which prevent it from being one of those Pokemon that is considered stand-alone. Crobat is simply not equipped to take on the S rank duties it did a short while ago.
Same with Hydreigon. It's simply too powerful overall to not be S rank. Frankly, what keeps this mon from being broken is its 98 base Speed, and let's just call it a day.
Same with Hydreigon. It's simply too powerful overall to not be S rank. Frankly, what keeps this mon from being broken is its 98 base Speed, and let's just call it a day.
hey guys, reuniclus is like A+ js
and snorlax is probably A+ as well.
actually no, but they're definitely as good as mienshao/entei and those are A+, but imo those two are not on par w/ hera/hydrei/crobat, so all of mien/entei/reuni/lax should probably be moved to A.
reuni kind of shits on the meta atm and lax is stupendously hard to stop safely. luke/mien/hera can't switch in on body slams unless you have a really solid backup check cause if they get para'd you probably lose. the only 'reliable' way of stopping lax is honestly like doublade but that gets lured so easily its ridiculous.
you know what actually is on par with bat/hera/hydrei, though? mega pidgeot. there are 2, i repeat, TWO fucking switchins to this thing in the entire tier (SpD emp and roost mega aero, for the slow ones), and granted mega aero is probably the best mon in the tier atm but holE shit pideot restricts teambuilding like a motherfucker.
and snorlax is probably A+ as well.
actually no, but they're definitely as good as mienshao/entei and those are A+, but imo those two are not on par w/ hera/hydrei/crobat, so all of mien/entei/reuni/lax should probably be moved to A.
reuni kind of shits on the meta atm and lax is stupendously hard to stop safely. luke/mien/hera can't switch in on body slams unless you have a really solid backup check cause if they get para'd you probably lose. the only 'reliable' way of stopping lax is honestly like doublade but that gets lured so easily its ridiculous.
you know what actually is on par with bat/hera/hydrei, though? mega pidgeot. there are 2, i repeat, TWO fucking switchins to this thing in the entire tier (SpD emp and roost mega aero, for the slow ones), and granted mega aero is probably the best mon in the tier atm but holE shit pideot restricts teambuilding like a motherfucker.
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As promised, here are a couple of replays with Kyurem. All of these involve SubRoost Kyurem, by the way... I'll try to get a team together with some of the other sets in a bit:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-210839533 -> A team with no clear answers to SubRoost Kyurem outside of Darm. Shuffles things around, scouts and gets in a bunch of chip damage in the early game, and then comes back later to win the late game.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-209399472 -> Kyurem literally takes out his entire team (well, he forfeited at the end, but last mon Umbreon can't beat Kyurem, since Kyurem stalls it out of Foul Plays pretty easily)
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-209356721 -> Only comes out once, against Suicune, but you can see how it beats Suicune one on one and can stall out Scald pretty easily. (Wasn't necessary this battle, but still, you can get the idea from it.)
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I dunno about S-rank dreigon, it's as good as ever but I don't think the meta is less prepared for it now than it was before- fairies are only more common due to hera and mence.
Kyurem should definitely move up though, its specs set is a beast right now.
Kyurem should definitely move up though, its specs set is a beast right now.
Reunclus should def be moved up to A, but I don't think mienshao should be moved down; it's effective as ever. Same with Entei, nothing has changed for it.
I also agree with Mega Pidgeot with moving up, as it's currently one of the best special wallbreakers/stallbreakers in the tier.
Kyurem should certainly move up to A-. Pretty good array of effective sets and it can put plenty of work cause ice attacks are certainly amazing in the tier, putting pressure against plenty of teams and thanks to its typing and usable enough movepool even bulky waters wont like switching into it depending of the set. Plenty of cools sets like specs that punch so many holes, mixed life orb being really strong and punching holes as well, sub roost with dragon tail being a pretty neat phazer. Weak to rocks but one of the few flaws holding it back. Certainly deserves A- rank at the moment.
Mega Pidgeot is ridiculous. No Guard hurricanes coming from a 135 special attack puts a ton of pressure on any team cause flying STAB is one of the most reliable things. Heat Wave to hit opposing steel types (Empoleon lacking reliable recovery can be relatively easy to wear down). Sub work up is amazing. Certainly an A+ rank in my book, only M-Aerodactyl holds it back of perhaps being too good.
Mega Pidgeot is ridiculous. No Guard hurricanes coming from a 135 special attack puts a ton of pressure on any team cause flying STAB is one of the most reliable things. Heat Wave to hit opposing steel types (Empoleon lacking reliable recovery can be relatively easy to wear down). Sub work up is amazing. Certainly an A+ rank in my book, only M-Aerodactyl holds it back of perhaps being too good.
florges to B+. It's not as good in the Heracross + Mence meta. With both Granbull and Aromatisse stepping up to function as the top to defensive fairies in the tier, Florges role is kind of undermined.
IIRC the reasons Golbat has a rank its higher bulk with Eviolite+the fact it brings a Slow U-Turn im comparison to Crobats Fast one
wheter or not that is a enough to keep it ranked thats another story
You should compare Golbat to gligar instead of Crobat as they're much more similar. Both are slow bulky defogers with same support moves and quite weak to knock off. As Golbat could run Def. or Sp.Def investment, and take better the grass and water attacks (even live an ice attack maybe), Gligar has much more physical defense to stops physic pokes that Golbat can't like Salamence, Mienshao or Machamp (Stone Edge).
Seems viable on paper but i dunno.
Seems viable on paper but i dunno.
Hariyana Grande [old]
Banned deucer.
Hey so mega glalie is put as b- right now and I'm wondering a bit as to why?
Flying/ground types are on literally every team and obviously, ice hits them all hard.
Not to mention glalie has access to freeze dry which can chunk water types for a bit.
Now the issue that sets this thing back from being any higher I'm guessing is the fact that it takes up a mega slot, and it has an admitedly bad speed tier for one at base 100.
With that being said, it still bops countless things rediciously hard with body slam/double edge/eq/freeze dry coverage, and I really want to see this thing move up to at least a B rank.
Flying/ground types are on literally every team and obviously, ice hits them all hard.
Not to mention glalie has access to freeze dry which can chunk water types for a bit.
Now the issue that sets this thing back from being any higher I'm guessing is the fact that it takes up a mega slot, and it has an admitedly bad speed tier for one at base 100.
With that being said, it still bops countless things rediciously hard with body slam/double edge/eq/freeze dry coverage, and I really want to see this thing move up to at least a B rank.
Where's the room for Body Slam?
At base 100, Mega Glalie absolutely needs priority to pick off weakened faster foes.
Hariyana Grande [old]
Banned deucer.
I meant you can use either body slam OR double edge. And I forgot to mention return/frustration.
Obviously you don't need both lmao
I'm going to suggest moving Moltres out of C, maybe to B/B+. Flying STAB is insanely good right now, and there isn't much that can switch in to both Hurricane and Fire Blast. 4x rocks weakness sucks but I'm only suggesting it to B+. It's speed isn't great but it's workable, and really shouldn't detract from how amazing its dual STABs are.
Could granbull possibly be moved to A-rank? I think its really great in this meta as it checks/counters hera,mence, and aerodactyl which are huge threats in this meta. I personally think rest+sleep talk is the best set and it seems to be the most common. By the way all calcs assume the opposing mon is at -1.
Relevant calcs:
-1 212+ Atk Mega Aerodactyl Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Granbull: 103-123 (26.8 - 32%) -- 35.9% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 252+ Atk Salamence Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Granbull: 72-85 (18.7 - 22.1%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 252+ Atk Salamence Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Granbull: 144-170 (37.5 - 44.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 252 Atk Choice Band Guts Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Granbull: 123-145 (32 - 37.7%) -- 0.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (calc is with guts activated)
-1 252 Atk Reckless Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Granbull: 72-84 (18.7 - 21.8%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 252 Atk Mienshao Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Granbull: 100-118 (26 - 30.7%) -- 2.3% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Mienshao Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Granbull: 146-174 (38 - 45.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 252 Atk Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Granbull: 154-183 (40.1 - 47.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 252+ Atk Sharpedo Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Granbull: 79-94 (20.5 - 24.4%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 252+ Atk Mega Swampert Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Granbull: 115-136 (29.9 - 35.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Granbull: 142-168 (36.9 - 43.7%) -- 99.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Sorry if I included too many calcs but I just wanted to make sure I highlight how bulky this thing is with intimidate. I strongly feel like it should and can be considered for an A or A- ranked mon.
Relevant calcs:
-1 212+ Atk Mega Aerodactyl Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Granbull: 103-123 (26.8 - 32%) -- 35.9% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 252+ Atk Salamence Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Granbull: 72-85 (18.7 - 22.1%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 252+ Atk Salamence Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Granbull: 144-170 (37.5 - 44.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 252 Atk Choice Band Guts Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Granbull: 123-145 (32 - 37.7%) -- 0.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (calc is with guts activated)
-1 252 Atk Reckless Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Granbull: 72-84 (18.7 - 21.8%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 252 Atk Mienshao Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Granbull: 100-118 (26 - 30.7%) -- 2.3% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Mienshao Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Granbull: 146-174 (38 - 45.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 252 Atk Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Granbull: 154-183 (40.1 - 47.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 252+ Atk Sharpedo Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Granbull: 79-94 (20.5 - 24.4%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 252+ Atk Mega Swampert Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Granbull: 115-136 (29.9 - 35.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Granbull: 142-168 (36.9 - 43.7%) -- 99.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Sorry if I included too many calcs but I just wanted to make sure I highlight how bulky this thing is with intimidate. I strongly feel like it should and can be considered for an A or A- ranked mon.
I am confused as to why Blissey is ranked so low as B+. This pokemon is on 2/3 of all stall teams, possibly more, and for good reason. Blissey is to stall what Vape, Umby, and Florges are to balance, and should be ranked alongside them in A-, at least. I would even push for A, frankly. It can wall significant portions of the metagame. Its biggest flaw is that it is weak to powerful physical moves and STAB fighting attacks are common in UU, and this is easily compensated by running fighting checks and physical walls alongside it. Any decent stall team will have fighting checks and physical walls on it anyway so this is hardly much of a stretch. Blissey frees up so many teamslots by being so good at what it does that you only need to run one other specially defensive pokemon alongside it, at most, to take trickscarfs aimed at bliss. It can use its free turns to do any number of things, like set up rocks, heal the team, fire off wishes, or use seismic toss to take of about a third off an incoming Lucario/Hera/Machamp's health, limiting the number of times they can switch in. It can even run T-wave to cripple its checks, if you want. Of the A-Rank mons I see, Maggron, Beedrill, Krook, Luke, and Megapert can force it out, but it can switch into and beat most sets belonging Zam, MegaBlast, Queen, MegaPidge, which is no mean feat, and is as good a defensive answer to Shaymin as you're likely to get.
I feel as though Blissey should be A Rank from its unparalleled virtues in stall and as one of the best defensive pokemon in the tier. I can't speak for its virtues in balance, but I have seen it on balance teams, so obviously it can't be terrible. But, for the love of god, what is it doing in the same rank as Arcanine and Roserade???
I fell as though Granbull is fine where it is. It's bulky, yes, but it's also very ineffectual, even for stall. Even though it forces a lot of switches it can't do anything on its free turns other than heal the team, which it isn't even that good at because it'll be asleep a lot of the time and has to rely on Sleep Talk, which can be frustrating.
I feel as though Blissey should be A Rank from its unparalleled virtues in stall and as one of the best defensive pokemon in the tier. I can't speak for its virtues in balance, but I have seen it on balance teams, so obviously it can't be terrible. But, for the love of god, what is it doing in the same rank as Arcanine and Roserade???
I fell as though Granbull is fine where it is. It's bulky, yes, but it's also very ineffectual, even for stall. Even though it forces a lot of switches it can't do anything on its free turns other than heal the team, which it isn't even that good at because it'll be asleep a lot of the time and has to rely on Sleep Talk, which can be frustrating.
So I'd like to make an argument for one of my favorite mons in UU....
Milotic to C Rank
I get it, there's a dozen other bulky waters in the tier. Swampert/Tenta can set up hazards(Tenta spins them as well); Stoise has Spin and great offensive pressure; Vape is a pretty strong wishpass; and Suicune is.. well... Suicune. They all do their jobs very well, but that doesn't mean Milotic has no use in the meta, like the D rank would suggest. As it is, she's a great defensive pivot, soaking up hits from Mons such as MAggron/Entei/Darm/Salamence(Barring Outrage), and either forcing them out, or threatening Scald Burns/Toxic spread, then simply clicking Recover to act like it never happened. Even switching in on Status doesn't bother Milo as much, as she simply becomes even bulkier physically: That Salamence switch-in.. not even a threat once Marvel Scale comes into play.
252+ Atk Salamence Outrage vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Marvel Scale Milotic: 124-147 (31.5 - 37.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery and burn damage
0 SpA Milotic Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Salamence: 348-412 (105.1 - 124.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
I'm not saying she's the greatest option. But saying she is ineffective is just wrong.
Milotic to C Rank
I get it, there's a dozen other bulky waters in the tier. Swampert/Tenta can set up hazards(Tenta spins them as well); Stoise has Spin and great offensive pressure; Vape is a pretty strong wishpass; and Suicune is.. well... Suicune. They all do their jobs very well, but that doesn't mean Milotic has no use in the meta, like the D rank would suggest. As it is, she's a great defensive pivot, soaking up hits from Mons such as MAggron/Entei/Darm/Salamence(Barring Outrage), and either forcing them out, or threatening Scald Burns/Toxic spread, then simply clicking Recover to act like it never happened. Even switching in on Status doesn't bother Milo as much, as she simply becomes even bulkier physically: That Salamence switch-in.. not even a threat once Marvel Scale comes into play.
252+ Atk Salamence Outrage vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Marvel Scale Milotic: 124-147 (31.5 - 37.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery and burn damage
0 SpA Milotic Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Salamence: 348-412 (105.1 - 124.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
I'm not saying she's the greatest option. But saying she is ineffective is just wrong.
- Status