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Metagame ORAS/XY PU (Serperior Banned)

Discussion in 'ORAS PU' started by WhiteDMist, Aug 3, 2014.

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  1. WhiteDMist

    WhiteDMist Path>Goal
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    Approved by Arcticblast and Hollywood (forever Treecko)
    RIP Detective Dell you will always have a place here :'(

    GEN 6 PU
    [​IMG]
    credit to Arhops for the awesome banner!

    Introduction:

    Welcome to the PU Metagame for X&Y! For those of you who don't know, PU allows all the NU Pokemon that are 3.406% or lower in the 1630 usage stats to be used. With the cream of the NU crop leveled off, there is room for the lowest of the low to finally have a chance to shine as top-tier threats. Maybe YOU will be the one that finds the next top threat or strategy!

    PU is easily playable by simply challenging your friends on the ladder (simply select PU on Pokemon Showdown and make sure that both players are aware that they should be using PU teams). You can easily go on SynIRC and join #othermetas, or even better, join #pu to chat in real time with fellow PU players and even find battles. I will be picking from the best posters in order to fill the PU Council. That is because there will be suspects and bans, so when the time comes you should all do your best to post well-thought out reasonings. Even if this doesn't get you a seat on the Council, you may convince a Council member to change their vote. Other ways to be considered for the PU Council would be to start great discussions in this thread or on IRC. We also have our own Room on Pokemon Showdown!

    Remember, PU follows all standard Smogon clauses and bans. Tier shifts will occur at the same time the official tiers have their own shifts. That means that PU will shift every 3 months.


    PU Council:
    WhiteDMist (Leader)
    Detective Dell (Co-Leader)
    Robert Alfons
    scorpdestroyer
    Magnemite
    galbia
    Montsegur
    Anty

    Rotating Council (Musharna Suspect)
    The Leprechaun
    WildHope

    Rotating Council (Garbodor, Glalitite, and Cameruptite Suspect)
    Megazard Z
    GrimoireGod

    Show Hide
    Former Council
    Peef Rimgar
    TRC

    Clauses & Banlists:

    Clauses:

    Endless Battle Clause: Players cannot use any moveset on any Pokémon capable of intentionally causing an endless battle. Thus:
    A Pokémon may not carry Recycle and hold a Leppa Berry in conjunction with Heal Pulse and Milk Drink, Moonlight, Morning Sun, Recover, Roost, Slack Off, Soft-Boiled, or Wish.
    A Pokémon may not hold a Leppa Berry while carrying Recycle and Pain Split.
    A Pokémon may not hold a Leppa Berry while carrying Recycle and Fling.
    Evasion Clause: Players cannot use the moves Double Team or or Minimize.
    Moody Clause: Players cannot use a Pokémon with the Moody ability.
    OHKO Clause: Players cannot use the moves Fissure, Guillotine, Horn Drill, or Sheer Cold.
    Sleep Clause: Players cannot induce sleep to more than one Pokémon on the opposing team at the same time.
    Species Clause: Players cannot have two Pokémon with the same Pokédex number on the same team.
    Swagger Clause: Players cannot use the move Swagger.
    Baton Pass Clause: Players cannot have more than one Pokémon with the move Baton Pass.

    Banlists:
    Shadow Tag
    Drought
    Drizzle

    Banned Pokemon - A team cannot have any of the Pokemon found in the following tiers: NU, BL3, RU, BL2, UU, BL, OU, and Ubers.

    These are the Pokemon above the PU cutoff:
    Accelgor, Altaria, Archeops, Armaldo, Audino, Beedrill, Cacturne, Cradily, Crustle, Cryogonal, Dragalge, Electivire, Exeggutor, Feraligatr, Ferroseed, Golurk, Gorebyss, Granbull, Gurdurr, Hariyama, Jynx, Kangaskhan, Klinklang, Lanturn, Leafeon, Liepard, Lilligant, Lopunny, Ludicolo, Magmortar, Malamar, Mesprit, Miltank, Mismagius, Muk, Musharna, Omastar,Pangoro, Pawniard, Pidgeot, Primeape, Probopass, Pyroar, Qwilfish, Regirock, Rhydon, Rotom, Rotom-Fan, Samurott, Sandslash, Sawk, Sceptile, Seismitoad, Shiftry, Slurpuff, Spiritomb, Steelix, Swellow, Torkoal, Typhlosion, Uxie, Vileplume, Vivillon, Weezing, Xatu, Zangoose

    List of Mons (open)

    | 62 | Bouffalant | 3.289% |
    | 63 | Barbaracle | 3.275% |
    | 64 | Altaria | 3.204% |
    | 65 | Chatot | 3.129% |
    | 66 | Mantine | 3.091% |
    | 67 | Avalugg | 2.968% |
    | 68 | Togetic | 2.927% |
    | 69 | Garbodor | 2.923% |
    | 70 | Flareon | 2.896% |
    | 71 | Poliwrath | 2.844% |
    | 72 | Tauros | 2.841% |
    | 73 | Lickilicky | 2.833% |
    | 74 | Haunter | 2.802% |
    | 75 | Ditto | 2.716% |
    | 76 | Ninetales | 2.705% |
    | 77 | Articuno | 2.625% |
    | 78 | Gourgeist-Super | 2.599% |
    | 79 | Scyther | 2.599% |
    | 80 | Golem | 2.566% |
    | 81 | Leavanny | 2.517% |
    | 82 | Raichu | 2.504% |
    | 83 | Dusknoir | 2.370% |
    | 84 | Carracosta | 2.357% |
    | 85 | Camerupt | 2.294% |
    | 86 | Floatzel | 2.275% |
    | 87 | Dusclops | 2.157% |
    | 88 | Tangela | 2.116% |
    | 89 | Rampardos | 2.032% |
    | 90 | Luxray | 2.025% |
    | 91 | Kecleon | 1.901% |
    | 92 | Basculin | 1.876% |
    | 93 | Gogoat | 1.837% |
    | 94 | Throh | 1.827% |
    | 95 | Kadabra | 1.819% |
    | 96 | Electrode | 1.818% |
    | 97 | Beheeyem | 1.812% |
    | 98 | Ursaring | 1.809% |
    | 99 | Lumineon | 1.779% |
    | 100 | Torterra | 1.748% |
    | 101 | Piloswine | 1.742% |
    | 102 | Musharna | 1.712% |
    | 103 | Kingler | 1.707% |
    | 104 | Mr. Mime | 1.689% |
    | 105 | Dodrio | 1.675% |
    | 106 | Bastiodon | 1.627% |
    | 107 | Ariados | 1.614% |
    | 108 | Lapras | 1.602% |
    | 109 | Rotom-Frost | 1.553% |
    | 110 | Arbok | 1.544% |
    | 111 | Drifblim | 1.542% |
    | 112 | Pelipper | 1.511% |
    | 113 | Grumpig | 1.496% |
    | 114 | Sneasel | 1.455% |
    | 115 | Glaceon | 1.448% |
    | 116 | Rapidash | 1.445% |
    | 117 | Marowak | 1.419% |
    | 118 | Aurorus | 1.371% |
    | 119 | Regice | 1.360% |
    | 120 | Frogadier | 1.336% |
    | 121 | Victreebel | 1.332% |
    | 122 | Meowstic | 1.320% |
    | 123 | Combusken | 1.281% |
    | 124 | Furfrou | 1.265% |
    | 125 | Ninjask | 1.214% |
    | 126 | Carbink | 1.212% |
    | 127 | Stoutland | 1.204% |
    | 128 | Slaking | 1.187% |
    | 129 | Meganium | 1.143% |
    | 130 | Gigalith | 1.142% |
    | 131 | Wartortle | 1.101% |
    | 132 | Linoone | 1.087% |
    | 133 | Sawsbuck | 1.065% |
    | 134 | Swoobat | 1.048% |
    | 135 | Serperior | 1.043% |
    | 136 | Electabuzz | 1.028% |
    + ---- + --------------- + ------- +


    I think I've said enough. So what are you waiting for?

    Artists are welcome as well, especially if you have ideas for a banner!
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2015
    FOZ369, MikeDawg, TheTabKey and 34 others like this.
  2. WhiteDMist

    WhiteDMist Path>Goal
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    Last edited: Aug 17, 2014
    Boyeraj17 likes this.
  3. Throbulator36

    Throbulator36

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    I'm really surprised barbaracle made it to PU given its access to tough claws and shell smash. though it probably wont be very good here given all the grass types running around here.
  4. WhiteDMist

    WhiteDMist Path>Goal
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    Some notable threats I already see are Samurott, Sneasel, Scyther, Barbaracle, Raichu, Chatot, Tangela, and Musharna. Of course, we dodged a bullet in Gorebyss, since it was actually PU just the previous month. Remember, just because these Pokemon are PU does not make them lightweights, even in NU. I expect to see plenty of playstyles popping up, with stall and weather gaining more spotlight here than in NU. Offense, hyper offense, volt-turn, quickpass, they all seem extremely viable. I only included a small amount of Pokemon, but there are even more NFEs that haven't been listed and they might even be viable!

    EDIT: Also, don't forget that the highest PU Pokemon tend to rise up to NU often, while some of the borderline NU Pokemon tend to fall to PU as well. So rather than asking why a Pokemon is PU, simply enjoy using it while you can!
    Darth Manaphy and Shiruba like this.
  5. Peef Rimgar

    Peef Rimgar Lemmy is pretty cool
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    *hyping intensifies*

    I'm genuinely surprised Barbaracle didnt make NU. It has absurd sweeping power, and here a lot of it's harder checks (that arent trash) are gone. bring tangela or lose tbh

    Togetic is the best hazard clearer in the tier hands down (from what i can see at least). Thank fucking god we don't have to gen 5 NU it and use wartortle.

    Sneasel is going to be VERY strong. There's a lot of eviolites around here, and it gets the hardest hitting knock off. It outspeeds 90% of the relevant meta and hits like a bloody truck. Plus ice STAB in a tier full of grasses is pretty powerful. I could see a future suspect tbh, but this is theorymon
    WhiteDMist likes this.
  6. Valmanway

    Valmanway My jimmies remain unrustled
    is a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

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    Man, this looks so cool! Too bad Castform still sucks.
  7. AWailOfATail

    AWailOfATail viva la darmz
    is a Pre-Contributor

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    Victreebel
    Exeggutor
    Leafeon
    Flareon

    Sun team y/y

    Lets list a few pokes that I can see:

    Chatot aka hax god
    Regice, who's only down here because of a lack of recovery
    Leafeon who I honestly use in OU on my sun team (and it's not bad)
    Shelgon who can wish pass

    These are probably playing favorites but who cares I'm hyped
  8. scorpdestroyer

    scorpdestroyer it's a skorupi egg
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

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    Time for a mini-thought dump:

    PU has quite a few good hazard setters. Great Spikers in Cacturne and Garbodor, while the extremely reliable Golem sets up SR. PU even gets Roselia and KRICKETUNE :o KRICKETUNE KRICKETUNE STICKY WEB :]

    In addition, Barbaracle and Samurott sound like huge threats. Barbaracle outruns pretty much everything except Scarf Ditto, Scarf Tauros, and Scarf Raichu after a Shell Smash. Good thing we have Tangela and Poliwrath in the tier, and running one of these sound very important to defeat Barbaracle. Meanwhile Samurott somehow made its way here, and if BW NU was anything to go by Samurott is going to be top tier here. With multiple viable sets and different counters each it'll be amazing. Samurott + Barbaracle could be an alright offensive core since special Samurott defeats both Tangela and Poliwrath.

    Wartortle might get a chance to stand out as PU's best spinner much like last gen NU. It can beat Dusknoir / Dusclops unlike Avalugg with Foresight Rapid Spin and actually has a lot of threatening things to support eg. Articuno, Scyther, NP Ninetales, CB Flareon, Rotom-F. All these threats here are likely to be dangerous btw, the only problem with them is that PU has reliable SR setters but virtually no spinners, although it shouldn't matter too much (see BW NU). Shell Smash Torkoal also sounds like a very interesting spinner, although the problem remains that it could be worn down too much to spin by the time it beats spinblockers. Meanwhile the Defog options include Unfezant and Pidgeot, which unfortunately get beaten by Defiant Purugly :> edit: nvm didn't notice Togetic and Vullaby

    also SmashPass Huntail is here :]

    Sounds like a fun meta
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2014
    xastify, galbia and WhiteDMist like this.
  9. Peef Rimgar

    Peef Rimgar Lemmy is pretty cool
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    Who knows, with the rising popularity of weather, the meta might (cast)form around it! I'm so sorry

    Also another huge threat i failed to mention was Poliwrath. SubPunch seems very good given the environment (only a handful of 150 BP fighting STAB switchins, and most dont appreciate encore) Hell the RestTalk Bulk Up set can do some pretty decent damage if you remove threats like Exeggutor before setting up.
    AWailOfATail likes this.
  10. MAMP

    MAMP

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    PU last gen was dominated by hazard stacking due to lack of good spinners, but now we have a few solid defoggers to work with, so I imagine that will be a less effective strategy. Togetic and Noctowl seem like they could be pretty good.
  11. s_aman

    s_aman

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    This is pure theorymon. So, take it with a pinch of salt. ;)
    Everyone is forgetting Liligant. Due to the lack of steel types, it gets pretty good coverage in giga drain and hp rock. Nature power is a good option too for opposing grass types. And, we all know that how good of a move quiver dance is. Also, boosted oblivious petal dance wreaks.
    Another thing i am hyped about is fraxure. There is one fairy type here namely togetic. And again, steel types don't exist except for pawniard and maybe eviolite klang? However, sneasel will be problematic for it with its ice shard.
  12. Peef Rimgar

    Peef Rimgar Lemmy is pretty cool
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    Raseri confirmed Pawn is considered NU not PU, due to rounding q_q

    Liligant might go HP ice to nail the eviolite dragons in the tier. I agree it has some serious potential, even if still severely limited by movepool.

    and about the steels in the tier, Metang (no I'm not a Molk alt) actually doesn't look TOO terrible in this meta. Knock Off weakness obviously still hurts, but not nearly as much as in NU with shiftry running the joint (well not anymore but before this). I kinda doubt EvioKlang, but then again I've seen weirder looking sets work
  13. Adonzo

    Adonzo

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    nevermind those two, you've got Bastiodon as your best Steel-type.
    Shounen likes this.
  14. MegaGallade

    MegaGallade

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    I can see Cacturne as a good revenge killer with access to Swords Dance and Sucker Punch, holding a focus sash.
    Weakness Policy Rock Polish Golem may be a thing, but I'm not so sure about it.
    Also Shell Smash White Herb Sturdy Carracosta was a set I used a lot, as Sturdy gives it a free Sash.
  15. JustAMan

    JustAMan

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    Togetic seems cool with a Defog Set but even with bulky NP

    Togetic@Eviolite
    Ability:Super Luck/Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe ( just spitting out a spread, maybe bulkier w/Def investment )
    Modest Nature
    - Nasty Plot
    - Roost
    - Dazzling Gleam
    - Defog / Water Pulse

    Also Weakness Policy Drifblim, Acro / SBall / Tbolt / Bpass / HP Fight should do
  16. ck49

    ck49

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    Tauros and Bouffalant look very good, especially since there aren't too many steel/ghost types in the tier. Given the wide spread use of EQ and the large number of grass types, getting rid of rock types seems easy enough. I'll definitely try this out
  17. Ranger Mike

    Ranger Mike

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    | 70 | Samurott | 2.85584% | 12508 | 2.059% | 10088 | 2.035% |
    This is probably the best Pokemon in pu imo, samurott is a terrific wall breaker and having a lack of ferroseed makes it 1000 times better. Will post my thoughts after a few games
  18. PowerStyler

    PowerStyler

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    Sticky Web looks like a game-changing hazard. There are at least a few powerful wallbreakers mostly held back by their speed (Rampardos immediately comes to mind since I remember it being a threat last gen, but Flareon got Flare Blitz, Bouffalant dropped, and Shell Smashers (read: Carracosta) can now afford to run Adamant over Jolly with few problems. Guess I'll be abusing them until SW hopefully (oh please say hopefully) gets the boot.

    Not sure how I feel about Masquerain, but Leavanny has Magic Coat to bounce faster taunts so it's definitely the most reliable web setter in the tier atm.


    As for non-Sticky Web related threats:

    Pangoro dropped all the way to PU. Shame, I thought it had more potential than that. Parting Shot definitely shows promise as a pivoting move, especially on a Pokemon with low speed. 4x Fairy weakness sucks, but it'll definitely have a niche as a slow pivot.

    Piloswine's amazing. Oblivious + Stealth Rock and decent bulk thanks to Eviolite. It's also no slouch on offense either, being able to beat Togetic 1 on 1 is never a bad thing to have on a bulky hazard setter.

    252+ Atk Piloswine Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Togetic: 194-230 (61.7 - 73.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    252+ Atk Piloswine Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Vullaby: 150-176 (43.6 - 51.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    252+ Atk Piloswine Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mantine: 171-202 (51.1 - 60.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

    ok nvm it can beat every relevant defogger 1 on 1 (granted it has to run some creep to beat vullaby but w/e)
    I'm sure there's a defogger I missed (ik about pidgeot and unfezant but they're both complete garb and swine beats them anyway)

    I'll post more stuff later after I do a bit of teambuilding.
    Jaguar360 and Ranger Mike like this.
  19. Ranger Mike

    Ranger Mike

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    I agree with you on the whole sticky web thing but kriketune>leavanny, it can use koff and sticky web along with endeavor which is handy for wearing down walls. Also WE HAVE TANGELA so it will be like gen 5 nu where everything has to run hp ice/fire or a bug move so yeah there's that. Ursaring seems like a very good user of sticky web ho as it hits like a truck and it's low speed it mitigated. AV Beheeyem is actually quite decent in nu so I can assume it would be good here because beheeyem is one if not the hardest hitting special attacker in the tier and it can take more hits but lose recover.
    WhiteDMist likes this.
  20. Leafshield

    Leafshield

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    lol how the hell is Rott PU? That thing is amazing.

    I'll post more later tonight because in at work. Super excited though! :)
    Jaguar360 and Ranger Mike like this.
  21. Cobracorp

    Cobracorp

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    I've been waiting a LONG time for this. I'm really surprised to see Barbaracle this far down in usage i hope PU isn't going to be infested with them.
  22. WhiteDMist

    WhiteDMist Path>Goal
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    Oh, one thing I didn't want to place in the OP but I thought I should mention is that PU is currently in "Beta" right now. This will be the only time where the metagame will shift after only 1 month (to follow the standard 3 month tier shifts, of which we are in the last month of currently). So remember, anything that is quickbanned once the Council is made will likely rise to NU naturally. Anything that is quickbanned that is still PU in September will likely be released for more testing.

    I completely agree that hazard stacking will be rampant with all of Garbodor, Roselia, Leavanny, Kriketune, Golem, Piloswine, etc. in the tier. Most of the Defoggers are slow and defensive, or else frail and not too offensively threatening. Spinners are even worse, though Wartortle is at least consistent with Foresight and Rapid Spin. Both options of hazard control are huge momentum kills as well, meaning that hazard stacking hyper offense can easily take advantage of the situation. There is talk of the threat of Water spam as well, and I definitely see it with Barbaracle, Samurott, Carracosta, and Poliwrath all here.
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2014
    Ranger Mike likes this.
  23. accelgors

    accelgors

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    i feel like a lot of guys are gonna get moved up to NU next month.
    avalugg's defense and attack are way too high for this tier, lilligant's petal dance + quiver dance combo can wipe out entire teams that don't have sap sipper with only a turn or two of setup, female meowstic has competitive, bouffalant can do serious damage, basculin is actually stronger than it looks and fast, chatot will probably leave too because of chatter and boomburst (i have no idea how it even got here, i see it used a lot), samurott is good mixed and a lot of people like it so i could see its usage going way up, and dusclops is a really good wall to the point of being annoying. i think those are definitely gone soon.
    musharna is a great wall with solid special attack so it might move too. scyther is fast and that attack with technician is probably gonna be really tough. anything that has shell smash could be gone. tangela still has 115 defense and 100 special attack. i remember how annoying roselia was in last gen's NU so she might be gone.
    those are the ones i could see leaving
    Cobracorp likes this.
  24. Ranger Mike

    Ranger Mike

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    Dusclops is a terrible mon I completely knowwhy it's nu and that's because it has no offensive presence, no good recovery, bad defensive typing, and so many more thuings that are bad. Dusknoir isnt much better but it is better. Avalugg is not good in nu due to it's papaer thin special defense. Not to mention that lilligant is handled by a fire type such as Ninestales laughably easy. Why use meowstic when I coulduse something like purugly, having more speed and bulk. Mushy is really meh this gen with the knock off buff and sd gatr running around I mean it could be good in pu. Tangelawil lnot leave the tier but it will be good. Chatot is not gonna leave anytime soon since it's common knowledge to not bank on hax. Basculin is extremely outclassedby feraligatr. I don't really know about bouffalant and scyther but Samurott most likely will move up because people know it is a great wallbreaker. That is why these mons will not rise.
  25. Peef Rimgar

    Peef Rimgar Lemmy is pretty cool
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    Sadly (and i mean fucking sadly), Dusclops is the better of the two barring Trick Room offense. They're both basically irrelevant though, due to the assumed ever-presence of Sneasel.

    Also, Avalugg is just absolutely ruined by any Special Attack. I don't see it being substantially better here than it is in NU tbh
    wishes and WhiteDMist like this.
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