Metagame ORAS/XY PU (Serperior Banned)

[Holiday]

So, a team I've been doing well with is a Sand Hazards team. Just beat atomicllamas with it, and it is definitely an interesting play style that I hope to bring up to be more relevant in the PU meta. It's a bit weird in regards to looking at it from the start, as it's the only team I've built using all 4 available hazards (Kricketune has SWeb, Hippopotas has SR, Cacturne has Spikes, and Garb has toxic spikes). The focus of the team is to set up hazards with the four hazard pokemon, slowly wither way the team with Cacturne and Garbordor (Kricketune's Bug Bite hurts a LOT but is often relegated to webs and Taunt) and attempt a sweep with SS Carracosta or Sand Rush Stoutland. Importable to come :D

Edit: Might actually just make a RMT if that's allowed XD

Edit 2: I will put good replays of my sand team in action here.

Sand Replays

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/nu-153456513 - vs unfixablE
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/nu-153611498 - vs Seismitoad
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/nu-153643790 - vs Nateboomer21
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/nu-155842905 - vs innovamania

Edit 3: My importable:

Sand Hazard team

Hippopotas @ Eviolite
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Slack Off
- Whirlwind

Stoutland @ Life Orb
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Return
- Crunch
- Wild Charge
- Superpower

Carracosta @ White Herb
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Aqua Jet
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake

Kricketune @ Focus Sash
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Taunt
- Sticky Web
- Bug Bite
- Knock Off

Cacturne @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Spikes
- Sucker Punch
- Seed Bomb
- Destiny Bond

Garbodor @ Black Sludge
Ability: Aftermath
EVs: 5 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Toxic Spikes
- Gunk Shot
- Drain Punch
- Haze

 

[WhiteDMist]

First thing to Kiba Roserade is that you CAN make a RMT, but I wouldn't yet since PU doesn't even have its own official usage stats until September.

Reminders to everyone who posts here that I am archiving as many PU battles as I can from the people who post the replays in this thread and on IRC. So don't be afraid to post replays, as they are the best way for people to learn about the metagame outside of battling themselves. There are so many different types of teams and playstyles; learning how they match-up to each other is both necessary and part of the fun!

Now onto business...

UPDATE

I have decided the members of the current PU Council! They are as follows: WhiteDMist Detective Dell TRC Peef Rimgar Robert Alfons scorpdestroyer galbia Magnemite

All of these people have been posting intelligent and proactive thoughts about the PU metagame in this thread, and on #pu. It should come as no surprise that they are on the council, so congrats and thank you guys! :')

I may or may not add a few more members to the Council in the future. That depends solely on who hits at least a few of the following criteria of course: insightful posting in this thread, helpful advice to other players in this thread and on #pu, good PU metagame discussions in #pu and #othermetas, and working towards the improvement of PU in general (granted most of this list goes without saying).

 

[yikes]

First thing to Kiba Roserade is that you CAN make a RMT, but I wouldn't yet since PU doesn't even have its own official usage stats until September.

Reminders to everyone who posts here that I am archiving as many PU battles as I can from the people who post the replays in this thread and on IRC. So don't be afraid to post replays, as they are the best way for people to learn about the metagame outside of battling themselves. There are so many different types of teams and playstyles; learning hwo they match-up to each other is both necessary and part of the fun!

Now onto business...

UPDATE

I have decided the members of the current PU Council! They are as follows: WhiteDMist Detective Dell TRC Peef Rimgar Robert Alfons scorpdestroyer galbia Magnemite

All of these people have been posting intelligent and proactive thoughts about the PU metagame in this thread, and on #pu. It should come as no surprise that they are on the council, so congrats and thank you guys! :')

I may or may not add a few more members to the Council in the future. That depends solely on who hits at least a few of the following criteria of course: insightful posting in this thread, helpful advice to other players in this thread and on #pu, good PU metagame discussions in #pu and #othermetas, and working towards the improvement of PU in general (granted most of this list goes without saying).

(sees Peef on the council)
WE'RE DOOMED

 

[trc]

Sand

Sand is one of the things I've been absolutely dying to try, the great thing about PU is that all 4 weathers can actually claim some sort if viability, whereas in other tiers it's pretty much less so (OU: Sand, Rain | UU: Sand, Rain [Matchup Reliant] | RU: Rain | NU: [idk] | PU: Sand, Rain, Sun, Hail). Sun and Sand are the most dominant weathers, but Rain and Hail are definitely viable and I plan to make a post on Hail in the future. As for Sand itself, the main issue is obviously if Hippopotas uses Eviolite, you only get 5 turns of Sand, but if you use Smooth Rock you have a significant loss in bulk. However, sand has some powerful abusers. Stoutland was great in OU in BW, is good in UU now, yet is all the way in the depths of PU. With a Choice Band it hits REALLY hard and outspeeds the entire unboosted tier not counting other weather conditions (ie: when in sand). Cacturne is interesting, it's a suicide Spikes Pokemon but I can see it being a potent attacker on Sand teams by dodging attack and firing off powerful +2 Sucker Punches. Carracosta is great on Sand teams, as it the Sand to boost its Special Defense, making it very bulky both physically, and specially. If you guys know any other Pokemon that can abuse Sand well or fit well on Sand teams, make sure to post about them!

 

[Holiday]

Sand

Sand is one of the things I've been absolutely dying to try, the great thing about PU is that all 4 weathers can actually claim some sort if viability, whereas in other tiers it's pretty much less so (OU: Sand, Rain | UU: Sand, Rain [Matchup Reliant] | RU: Rain | NU: [idk] | PU: Sand, Rain, Sun, Hail). Sun and Sand are the most dominant weathers, but Rain and Hail are definitely viable and I plan to make a post on Hail in the future. As for Sand itself, the main issue is obviously if Hippopotas uses Eviolite, you only get 5 turns of Sand, but if you use Smooth Rock you have a significant loss in bulk. However, sand has some powerful abusers. Stoutland was great in OU in BW, is good in UU now, yet is all the way in the depths of PU. With a Choice Band it hits REALLY hard and outspeeds the entire unboosted tier not counting other weather conditions (ie: when in sand). Cacturne is interesting, it's a suicide Spikes Pokemon but I can see it being a potent attacker on Sand teams by dodging attack and firing off powerful +2 Sucker Punches. Carracosta is great on Sand teams, as it the Sand to boost its Special Defense, making it very bulky both physically, and specially. If you guys know any other Pokemon that can abuse Sand well or fit well on Sand teams, make sure to post about them!

My claim to fame right now is using sand, so I definitely suggest the two of us collaborate at some point and build some sand teams. The Pokemon I bolded are on my team as of now, with Garbodor and Kricketune being the other two and my importable coming now. What attracted me to Sand was that there were so many versatile ways to use your team. Mine is Hazard Spam, seeing how 4/6 of my team has the 4 hazards with LO Stoutland and Carrcosta aiming to sweep. Another replay I'm posting is just how amazing my Cacturne was in this battle. Spikes DBOND is beautiful. http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/nu-153611498

 

[Dark Mage Ewan]

I'm tacking particular interest at Wigglytuff as a stealth rock setter at the moment, unlike most SR setter Wiggly actually has something to gain from a defog, pure theorymoning, the problem is that her stats are really meh, it can't run specs because of rocks, it doesn't appreciate a life orb recoil, but even without LO it can kill most threat at +2:
252+ Atk Life Orb Samurott Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Wigglytuff: 290-343 (59.9 - 70.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Samurott Aqua Jet vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Wigglytuff: 146-173 (30.1 - 35.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ SpA Wigglytuff Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Samurott: 432-510 (130.1 - 153.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
It could be better but it is one of the more punishing SR setters.

 

[EV]

Hey PU players. We've expanded the daily tours in the Other Metagames room to Saturday and Sunday. A PU tournament will now be held every Saturday at 7PM EDT (UTC -4). I hope to see you there!

(Actually, I won't be there because of my work schedule. Womp womp.)

 

[Peef Rimgar]

Hey PU players. We've expanded the daily tours in the Other Metagames room to Saturday and Sunday. A PU tournament will now be held every Saturday at 7PM EDT (UTC -4). I hope to see you there!

(Actually, I won't be there because of my work schedule. Womp womp.)

I look forward to winning xD

I'm tacking particular interest at Wigglytuff as a stealth rock setter at the moment, unlike most SR setter Wiggly actually has something to gain from a defog, pure theorymoning, the problem is that her stats are really meh, it can't run specs because of rocks, it doesn't appreciate a life orb recoil, but even without LO it can kill most threat at +2:
252+ Atk Life Orb Samurott Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Wigglytuff: 290-343 (59.9 - 70.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Samurott Aqua Jet vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Wigglytuff: 146-173 (30.1 - 35.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ SpA Wigglytuff Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Samurott: 432-510 (130.1 - 153.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
It could be better but it is one of the more punishing SR setters.

Wigglytuff's ONLY niche is basically to behave like special Bisharp. You don't want to run hazards on it, but rather either Sub+3 Attacks or 4 Attacks, just to maximize the potential you have to sweep. With spike-stacking offense everywhere, Wigglytuff in theorymon is pretty good, but to be honest its underwhelming speed and attack stats leave it hanging. Maybe if NU stop being a bunch of bullies and gave us Pawniard q_q

 

[Ranger Mike]

Regarding wigglytuff I have used it and it is really not that powerful considering that defog is not really that common. However it can beat a lot of defoggers with boltbeam coverage such as pelipper, togetic, and swanna. Regarding sand i agree with the general consensus that hippo is just not worth it, as said a lot of times before me, Hippo can either get up 8 turns and be deadweight or actually not be deadweight but put up only 5 turns. I want to bring up beheeyem again because cm is a really really good set in the meta imo, analytic makes it dish out fucking nukes of attacks which compliments it's stellar movepool. Nothing off the top of my head really likes switching into a beheeyem and that is really awesome. You can even just run recover+3 attacks/av and be a terrific nastypass receiver. While on the subject of nastypass what do you guys think of stand alone nasty plot togetic?

 

[trc]

Kadabra

Kadabra is actually one of the more potent offensive threats of PU, and is one of the only offensive Psychic-types (though I have seen Magnemite using Mr. Mime). Magic Guard is honestly such an amazing ability, as it allows you to be a guaranteed revenge killer to any faster Pokemon once or any slower Pokemon you 2HKO, when using a Focus Sash of course, obviously Life Orb has more power. It is so unfortunate that it doesn't get Focus Blast, but what can you do. I personally use a set of Psychic / Shadow Ball / Dazzling Gleam / Thunder Wave, and I'll explain why. Psychic is chosen over Psyshock simply because I like the power better, though Psyshock is certainly viable to take on some things better like SpD Flareon. I only used Shadow Ball since I wanted to take on Musharna better once it's weakened, though it works better with Life Orb since you don't do as much as you'd like. Dazzling Gleam is a last ditch answer to Sneasel while it breaks your sash. Thunder Wave is for something you can't KO but something else can once it's slower. Encore can be used, as can Energy Ball to revenge +2 Carracosta / Barbaracle.

My next post will be about Serperior. Also, obligatory replay for WhiteDMist: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/nu-153684149

 

[skies]

Garbodor​

This pile of trash (hue) has been in about 3/4 of the PU battles I've had and it's not hard to see why. It has a solid typing backed by some solid bulk. More importantly, it has access to Spikes. It makes for a great hazard setting lead because it has access to a powerful STAB move in Gunk Shot and access to both kinds of Spikes. Its abilities are also quite neat with Weak Armor allowing it to survive a hit (with Focus Sash) and then be sure to have the ability to lay another set of Spikes if hit by a physical attack, while Aftermath hurts the opponent after Garbodor dies. Drain Punch whacks Sneasel about as well, which is quite helpful. Rock Blast as well. Overall, it's a very versatile Pokemon that's quite neat all-around and can lay down Spikes. Will post replays from now on n_n.

 

[Holiday]

Stuff.
While on the subject of nastypass what do you guys think of stand alone nasty plot togetic?

Okay. Togetic vs. some of the top PU Pokemon.
vs. Samurott
+2 252+ SpA Togetic Dazzling Gleam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Samurott: 277-327 (83.4 - 98.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Samurott Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Togetic: 238-281 (75.7 - 89.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Conclusion- Togetic Can't OHKO, wins the battle with about 10% HP Left

vs Sneasel
252+ SpA Togetic Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Sneasel: 264-312 (105.1 - 124.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Sneasel Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Togetic: 198-234 (63 - 74.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Conclusion- Togetic loses nearly 3/4 of health, but nets kill.

vs. Garbodor
252+ SpA Togetic Psychic vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Garbodor: 182-216 (60.4 - 71.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Garbodor Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Togetic: 266-314 (84.7 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

Conclusion- Togetic loses, but can weaken Garbodor.

vs. Tauros
252+ SpA Togetic Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tauros: 139-165 (47.7 - 56.7%) -- 86.3% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Rock Climb vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Togetic: 175-207 (55.7 - 65.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Conclusion- Togetic loses flat out.

OFC there are a lot more viable pokemon than the 4 listed, these were the first ones I thought of when thinking about combating Togetic. Take them as you wish.

 

[Adonzo]

why show the +2 calc against Samurott but not Garbodor or Tauros (doesn't matter with sneasel)?

+2 252+ SpA Togetic Psychic vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Garbodor: 364-430 (120.9 - 142.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252+ SpA Togetic Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tauros: 277-327 (95.1 - 112.3%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

EDIT: In reality, Togetic relies on a 50/50 via LO recoil to beat Samurott, and handily beats Garbodor and Tauros. It shouldn't be setting up on any of them. In general, I think Togetic is way too slow and doesn't hit hard enough at +2 to justify a solo-NP set.

 

[trc]

Seeing as this is on and off my favourite Pokemon (Carnivine has always been my thing, but as everyone knows, all Grass-types barring Cradily I find amazing), I thought I'd have to post about it. It's design is just so majestic goddamn it.

Serperior

Serperior has an interesting stat spread and movepool, which is very supportive but has little offensive options unfortunately. However, it's great Speed (outspeeds Purugly!) and great supportive options allow it to do quite a few things. Some notable moves include Calm Mind, Swords Dance, Coil, Giga Drain, Leaf Blade, Reflect, Light Screen, Aromatherapy, Synthesis, Leech Seed, Taunt, Dragon Tail, Glare, Knock Off, Serperior has it all, regardless of whether it would kill for something like Power Gem or Fire Blast. My favourite set is the Life Orb SubCM set (I used to run Leftovers but Detective Dell educated me =]), which can setup on on the typical Grass-types and Water-types in the tier. It is difficult to revenge thanks to its high Speed; with Substitute it avoids things like Murkrow's Thunder Wave and Sneasel's Ice Shard. However, the amazing thing about Serperior is Overgrow; it allows you to Substitute into Overgrow range and get off a more powerful Giga Drain. SubCoil with Leaf Blade and Knock Off is super cool and so is Calm Mind + Dragon Tail with support of something like Garbodor or Glalie (not Roselia though, synergistic issues). It is fast for dual screens with Taunt and while it faces competiton with Meowstic, it has a better defensive typing. An anti-lead set with Taunt / Glare / Leech Seed / Knock Off is also a cool stallbreaker (you could use Giga Drain over Leech Seed), and CM + Leaf Storm is also really cool as well. Even Swords Dance could maybe work although it seems kind of outclassed by Coil. Overall a really cool Pokemon that you should all use, AND it's a Grass-type.

 

[skies]

NastyPass​

I'll talk about NastyPass briefly (have to leave soon, will write later), but it's really good. Togetic is so bulky and if the partner has good synergy than the opponent will have to have some really good ways to stop the Pokemon you switch into. The best part is that Togetic is so slow, this means it can get a partner in safely. It can live a plethora of hits as well and even has Roost to keep itself healthy, hell, it can even run Dazzling Gleam to pick off a weakened team. It's movepool is also pretty large so it could be NastyPass, it could be Defog sets, it could be Roost + 3 Attacks (I'm testing this later as well). Its partner can be anything really, but I prefer Lilligant / Carvanha. Lilligant can spam +3 Petal Dances, while Carvanha can setup naturally with Speed Boost. They both can go to town. Here's a replay of this strategy in action: link.

 

[Magnemite]

Okay. Togetic vs. some of the top PU Pokemon.
vs. Samurott
+2 252+ SpA Togetic Dazzling Gleam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Samurott: 277-327 (83.4 - 98.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Samurott Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Togetic: 238-281 (75.7 - 89.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Conclusion- Togetic Can't OHKO, wins the battle with about 10% HP Left

vs Sneasel
252+ SpA Togetic Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Sneasel: 264-312 (105.1 - 124.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Sneasel Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Togetic: 198-234 (63 - 74.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Conclusion- Togetic loses nearly 3/4 of health, but nets kill.

vs. Garbodor
252+ SpA Togetic Psychic vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Garbodor: 182-216 (60.4 - 71.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Garbodor Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Togetic: 266-314 (84.7 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

Conclusion- Togetic loses, but can weaken Garbodor.

vs. Tauros
252+ SpA Togetic Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tauros: 139-165 (47.7 - 56.7%) -- 86.3% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Rock Climb vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Togetic: 175-207 (55.7 - 65.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Conclusion- Togetic loses flat out.

OFC there are a lot more viable pokemon than the 4 listed, these were the first ones I thought of when thinking about combating Togetic. Take them as you wish.

Why are you assuming that all of these Pokemon will be at full health when trying to sweep with Togetic? If you're using Togetic as a sweeper, you're not going to be trying to sweep entire teams from full health with it, that's just ridiculous. If anything, these calcs show that Togetic is actually pretty decent as a sweeper, since you don't even need to wear some of these Pokemon down that much to OHKO them (which is pretty easy to do since Spikes (and Sticky Web, which is also useful in helping Togetic sweep) are really good in this tier, as well as the fact that it isn't too hard to wear things down for a late-game sweeper anyway).

Also, some of those calcs are misleading, for several reasons:

1) Samurott isn't magically getting to +2 against a set up Togetic, and if you're trying to set up Togetic on a Samurott you're doing it wrong
2) The Garbodor calc is irrelevant as 0 HP Garbodor is literal garbage (in more ways than one)
3) LO Tauros should really be running Jolly / Naive instead of Adamant, the power boost isn't at all worth being unable to tie with / outspeed other Tauros, Raichu, Dodrio, and Ninetales (this isn't that relevant as Togetic is still 2HKOed, but it still doesn't take quite as much damage as you say it does)

Anyway, as for my thoughts about using Togetic as a standalone sweeper, it seems all right, but there are just so many good setup sweepers in this tier, and it just seems hard to justify using NP Togetic as a sweeper when you can use established threats such as Lilligant, Carracosta, Barbaracle, SD Otter, or Leafeon, or even underrated / untested sweepers that seem more fun to use on paper than Togetic, such as CM Serperior, NP Mr. Mime, NP Ninetales, NP Chatot, and other things.

Speaking of untested / underrated mons, I've been building quite a few teams around them and at some point I will make a post talking about some of the cool mons I've been trying out :o

Also the replay TRC posted in his Kadabra post was from a game we played at 2 AM, which is why I was playing like complete garbage lol (like seriously wtf how did I forget that Sneasel runs Ice Shard @_@)

 

[Holiday]

Why are you assuming that all of these Pokemon will be at full health when trying to sweep with Togetic? If you're using Togetic as a sweeper, you're not going to be trying to sweep entire teams from full health with it, that's just ridiculous. If anything, these calcs show that Togetic is actually pretty decent as a sweeper, since you don't even need to wear some of these Pokemon down that much to OHKO them (which is pretty easy to do since Spikes (and Sticky Web, which is also useful in helping Togetic sweep) are really good in this tier, as well as the fact that it isn't too hard to wear things down for a late-game sweeper anyway).

Also, some of those calcs are misleading, for several reasons:

1) Samurott isn't magically getting to +2 against a set up Togetic, and if you're trying to set up Togetic on a Samurott you're doing it wrong
2) The Garbodor calc is irrelevant as 0 HP Garbodor is literal garbage (in more ways than one)
3) LO Tauros should really be running Jolly / Naive instead of Adamant, the power boost isn't at all worth being unable to tie with / outspeed other Tauros, Raichu, Dodrio, and Ninetales (this isn't that relevant as Togetic is still 2HKOed, but it still doesn't take quite as much damage as you say it does)

Anyway, as for my thoughts about using Togetic as a standalone sweeper, it seems all right, but there are just so many good setup sweepers in this tier, and it just seems hard to justify using NP Togetic as a sweeper when you can use established threats such as Lilligant, Carracosta, Barbaracle, SD Otter, or Leafeon, or even underrated / untested sweepers that seem more fun to use on paper than Togetic, such as CM Serperior, NP Mr. Mime, NP Ninetales, NP Chatot, and other things.

Speaking of untested / underrated mons, I've been building quite a few teams around them and at some point I will make a post talking about some of the cool mons I've been trying out :o

Also the replay TRC posted in his Kadabra post was from a game we played at 2 AM, which is why I was playing like complete garbage lol (like seriously wtf how did I forget that Sneasel runs Ice Shard @_@)

Ewww I forgot idk why I put Adamant on Tauros. I run naive w/ that Fire blast so idk. I don't run max HP Garbage though tbh.

 

[Magnemite]

Okay, I as I said in my previous post, I've been trying to build around some underrated / untested mons lately, and now I'm going to talk about some of them. Note that this post is quite a bit more theorymon-based than my previous ones in this thread because I haven't played that many games with each of these mons, but it isn't to hard to see the impact of each of these mons from general meta experience.

As one of the whopping two Fairy-types in the whole tier that aren't Wigglytuff, Mr. Mime stands out a bit. The set I used (which is probably the best set it can run by far) is Life Orb Nasty Plot. It's decently fast, has good STAB coverage, and is really threatening to stall and even to offense if you run Sticky Web (though being outsped by Dodrio is kinda annoying) thanks to its great power and coverage. Psyshock hits special walls which would ordinarily wall it such as SpD Flareon incredibly hard (It OHKOes Specially Defensive Flareon at +2 with no prior damage at all), while Technician HP Ground OHKOes the only relevant Steel-type in the tier, Bastiodon, at +2 after Sturdy has been broken, leaving the only Pokemon that can wall or even take a single hit from Mr. Mime at +2 to be mixed walls such as Togetic. Ninetales is similar in that its best role seems to be that of a Nasty Plot sweeper. It is quite similar to Mr. Mime actually in that it works really well against stall and against offense as well with Sticky Web support, but its advantages include much stronger main STAB in Fire Blast, 10 higher base Speed, and more bulk, while Mr. Mime has a better typing and STAB Psyshock. On NP Ninetales I run Fire Blast, Psyshock which again hits stuff like Specially Defensive Flareon which would ordinarily laugh at Ninetales, and Energy Ball which hits Samurott, Carracosta, and Barbaracle, while also preventing the latter two from setting up on it. Marowak is a great SR setter that murders stall with its ridiculous power, but is held back by its low Speed. Pangoro is one of the only Fighting-types in the tier and is also ridiculously strong; nothing really wants to take a STAB move from it other than Togetic, while Parting Shot is a godly move in general that works especially well on choice sets. Heatmor is a strong mixed Fire-type with a ridiculously good movepool; Sucker Punch and Giga Drain especially are really good moves that help separate it from other wallbreakers. However, its low Speed and bulk can really let it down at times. Ursaring is pretty interesting as well. Guts sets are ridiculously strong but are really slow, while Quick Feet sets seem to be really threatening to offense, but I've only used Guts so far. Not really all that much to say here that isn't obvious. I also tried Butterfree, but I found it to be really disappointing as it requires a ton of support, is hard to set up, is weak and frail, has poor coverage and defensive typing, and has very little reason to be used over Lilligant in general, so unlike the rest of these mons, I wouldn't exactly recommend it.

Also, since building around these mons has left me with way too many teams to possibly use, especially since the meta will likely shift quite a bit in 10 days or so, I might as well post a few of my old ones here in case anyone is interested in trying out PU but doesn't know where to start.

Bulky-ish offense team built around CM Musharna

Musharna @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 232 Def / 24 Spe
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Psychic
- Signal Beam
- Moonlight

Poliwrath @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Circle Throw
- Ice Punch
- Sleep Talk

Sneasel (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Pickpocket
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Ice Punch
- Pursuit
- Ice Shard

Exeggutor @ Choice Specs
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Leaf Storm
- Psyshock
- Sleep Powder
- Sleep Talk

Golem @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Rock Blast
- Sucker Punch

Rotom-Frost @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Blizzard
- Trick

A pretty old team that's kinda weak to some threats but overall is pretty decent

Lilligant @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Quiver Dance
- Sleep Powder
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Piloswine @ Eviolite
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Icicle Spear
- Ice Shard

Sneasel (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Pickpocket
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Ice Punch
- Pursuit
- Ice Shard

Musharna (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 216 Def / 40 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Psychic
- Moonlight
- Thunder Wave
- Baton Pass

Samurott (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Megahorn
- Taunt

Tauros (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Double-Edge
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Zen Headbutt

Sun

Golem @ Heat Rock
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Sucker Punch
- Stealth Rock
- Sunny Day

Volbeat @ Heat Rock
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Sunny Day
- U-turn
- Encore
- Thunder Wave

Victreebel @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Growth
- Solar Beam
- Sludge Bomb
- Weather Ball

Flareon (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Flash Fire
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Superpower
- Return
- Quick Attack

Exeggutor @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Sunny Day
- SolarBeam
- Psychic
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Purugly @ Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Return
- Sucker Punch
- U-turn

 

[Evan.]

Hey guys, I've only played a few matches but I love the tier and am definitely going to continue experimenting. One thing that I've found in my few matches is that Relicanth is a mon that more people should use. It synergizes really well with all of the grass types in the tier and is pretty reliable at getting up rocks early game. A tank set with Max attack deals out ridiculous damage with STAB Head Smash and has really good defense, even when uninvested.

 

[trc]

I have to say I love all the attention on underrated Pokemon at the moment. That's the best part of this tier, so many different Pokemon are viable, and because of how early it is, there's heaps to experiment with. Also, with the banning of Mawilite, Mawile is slowly but surely going to drop back into PU, which is great as the Offensive Sheer Force set is powerful and the defensive set with Intimidate checks Sneasel and has a superb typing. It does however look like Samurott may rise to NU in September, so we'll have to see how that goes.

I've been wanting to make a larger post about the Ice-types in the tier, so I may get to that later.

 

[MAMP]

It's a shame we have to wait ~12 months for Mawile to drop to PU, I imagine it would be very potent in this tier.

 

[Evan.]

I wouldn't be so sure that Mawile is gonna drop to PU. It has one of the better typings in the game in Steel/Fairy and its Dual STABS are both affected by Sheer Force and are pretty spammable in NU. Intimidate + its defensive typing also allows for it to be a pretty nice pivot with access to rocks, priority and somewhat reliable recovery in Pain Split. I would expect it to be a really used mon in NU, maybe RU but probably not because it loses 1v1 to Doublade.

 

[Beta.]

Mawile won't be PU. At least for a while. There is still too much hype for it. It will be used a bit for it's fairy, and basically that's it. Until people realized it's the smae shit mawile, but with an extra type, the hype will be gone.

 

[Magnemite]

It's a shame we have to wait ~12 months for Mawile to drop to PU, I imagine it would be very potent in this tier.

hah, I wish it was 12 months, it will actually be 15 months. That said, while Mawile would be really good in this tier (especially since without it there exists literally one offensive Pokemon that can switch into and beat Sneasel that isn't garbage otherwise), I think the tier shift that will happen in ~10 days should give us quite a few new toys, and also hopefully take away some annoying mons (otter / sneasel / musharna pls)

Some mons that are close-ish to the cutoff that I would be the most excited to try out in PU:

Jynx
Rhydon
Malamar (how is this not PU already @_@)
Gourgeist-Super
Cradily
Armaldo

Since the NU <-> PU cutoff tends to have the most changes in terms of rises and drops, it's kinda hard to tell what will drop / rise beforehand, so I guess we just have to wait and see what we get n_n

 

[trc]

Jynx - #54 in NU | Usage: 3.66034% | Raw count: 21,539 | Weight: 0.123226048573

I was wondering about Jynx since I hadn't seen it much in XY NU so I checked its usage in the PU channel, and lo and behold, it's very close to the PU cutoff. Me and Magnemite talked about how it would actually be a very interesting, and very powerful threat in PU, one that has the potential to easily be S Rank. As I'm sure many people know, Jynx was a top tier Pokemon in BW NU, and was actually banned around the middle of SPL, along with Scolipede. The fact that it could enter PU is an example of yet another similarity to BW NU, though it should be interesting to see if the different metagame determines Jynx to be broken or not. Lets talk about what Jynx will be doing in PU. Jynx has a lot of powerful offensive sets (it is only ever used as an offensive Pokemon), with some of the best sounding being the Focus Sash lead set, Nasty Plot + 2 attacks, Substitute + Nasty Plot, Lovely Kiss + 3 attacks, and the Choice Scarf set, all of which can threaten quite a large portion of Pokemon in the tier. Lovely Kiss is absolutely amazing since most of its potential "counters" like Metang for example, can all be rendered useless, which means that Jynx often requires sleep fodder and a switch-in AND a revenge killer in case your switch-in gets taken care of. It even has Trick for Choice Scarf sets to cripple defensive responses like the aforementioned Metang.

Rhydon, Malamar, Armaldo, and Gourgiest sound cool, Armaldo could actually be a very potent Rapid Spin user in the tier. Malamar has got to be fun, Rhydon is good in NU so I don't think it will drop but if we have it then Golem is having some competition, and Gourgiest is probably rather underwhelming. All of the Pokemon it would love to wall have some way around it. It likes to take on Normal-, Ground-, and Fighting-types, but Purugly has Knock Off, Dodrio has Flying-type STAB, Pangoro has Dark-type STAB, Tauros has Fire Blast on Sheer Force sets, and even Poliwrath can Scald burn it, despite it seeming like a good answer.

I really don't want Cradily in PU though, it's a horrible Pokemon and it really should just not exist.