Original 151 (OU)

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by WeStIRL, Apr 14, 2012.

  1. WeStIRL

    WeStIRL

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    Hey thanks for checking out this thread! :)
    First off I'd like to say that I'm far from a expert at competitive Pokemon and still somewhat of a n00b with Smogon.

    My goal to create a first generation team came from my original denial about how powerful the newer, uglier Pokemon were when I first joined Smogon. As I went through a multitude of combinations I started to achieve balance, but as I got over my prejudice of the later generations I started to add the new Pokemon to my team such as Heatran, Tyranitar, Infernape and Ferrthorn to my team in search of more synergy.

    But as I came to stray further away from my original six, my performances plummeted and no matter what I did I never fared so well as when I used my original six, showing that the first generation can stand it's own.

    This is a team that has been edited for months, and I like to think that I have created a solid 151 team that can outmatch a lot of the OU metagame. There are still flaws, clear flaws, with a host of enemies creeping up from time to time (listed later) but I'm willing to take any critic and implement it in future versions. All generations are welcomed. So.



    THE TEAM



    THE ANTI LEAD
    [​IMG]
    252HP/244ATK/8SpD/4Speed
    Adamant - No Guard - Lum Berry

    Dynamic Punch
    Bullet Punch
    Ice Punch
    Payback

    Machamp is designed to deal as much damage to other team as possible, coming out of the gates swinging and hoping to put the opposing team on the back foot straight away. Inexperienced players are often flabbergasted as to how Machamp has taken out 3 of their Pokemon or how it has done so much damage to their team. No Guard Dynamic Punch offers instant confusion to anything that switches in putting them at an immediate disadvantage. Ghosts often switch in or go as a lead suffering a severe Payback while Machamp takes minimum damage from a Shadow Ball. Ice Punch deals with Dragons who attempt to set up in front of him while it makes short work of unsuspecting Grass types and Gliscor when it attempts to set up Stealth Rock. Overall Machamp rarely switches out except from powerful Psychic and Flying types, often preventing him from ever seeing the later stages of a battle, it still serves well to make way for my favourite sweeper.​



    THE EARLY SWEEPER
    [​IMG]
    252ATK/252Speed/4HP
    Adamant - Multiscale - Lum Berry

    Dragon Dance
    Fire Punch
    Outrage
    Roost

    Dragonite hopes to capitalise on the damage Machamp does by setting up right in front of the Pokemon that brought it down. Unless the Pokemon has an Ice move, Dragonite can set up while making use of Multiscale and it's impressive bulk. With two Dances under his belt Dragonite can sweep through an entire team that doesn't have any Steel types to take the Outrages and while the Lum Berry helps with those who attempt to cripple Dragonite, with a bit of luck, opposing Steel walls such as Jirachi, Skarmory, Ferrothorn and Forretress can take a deathly Fire Punch to the face. The latter two often set up entry hazards as Dragonite bulks up, not knowing the Firepower hidden. Roost helps to keep his health at max and take advantage of Multiscale. Dragonite is undoubtedly my most successful Pokemon, often sweeping 5 or 6 of a unprepared team.​



    THE LATE SWEEPER
    [​IMG]
    252SpAtk/252Speed/4HP
    Timid - Magic Guard - Focus Sash

    Shadow Ball
    Calm Mind
    Psychic
    Focus Blast

    While it isn't 100% true to say that Alakazam is used exclusively in Late Game (he can often put significant pressure in early-mid game), his blistering speed, Magic Guard and Focus Sash mean that Alakazam can often clutch 1v2 and 1v3 at the end of games. Shadow Ball takes out Ghosts who can be easily outrun, while Calm Mind is for when I predict a switch correctly, however it's very risky not to attack with Alakazam thanks to his brittle bones, I rarely use Calm Mind and I am genuinely considering using Recover instead (?).... Psychic does great neutral damage and finishes off weakened opponents, Focus Blast deals with those pesky Steel types types that might wall Dragonite and Alakazam's other attacks, as well as overpowering Tyranitar thanks to Focus Sash. In late game, Magic Guard makes Poison, Burn and entry hazards obsolete, allowing Alakazam to out speed the unboosted OU tier and always land two hits, finishing off weakened enemies and ending games. What makes Alakazam less of an instant threat than Dragonite is how much harder it is to set up a Calm Mind than a Dragon Dance thanks to the Magicians frail defences.​



    THE GLUE
    [​IMG]
    252SpcAtk/252Speed/4HP
    Timid - Levitate - Leftovers

    Substitute
    Shadow Ball
    Disable
    Focus Blast

    The SubDis set brings great stalling, switching and offensive possibilities to my team. It can often cripple opposing Ghost and Fighting types, forcing a switch and giving a free substitute to hide his flimsy frame behind, guaranteeing 2 attacks which is usually enough to knock out neutral targets. Focus Blast is used for resistant Steel and Dark types as well as it's direct counter in Tyranitar. Overall Gengar acts as an anchor for my team, helping every aspect, especially my Special Wall.


    THE SPECIAL WALL
    [​IMG]
    252HP/252DEF/4Speed
    Bold - Natural Cure - Eviolite

    Wish
    Protect
    Seismic Toss
    Toxic

    It shows just how desperate I was for a complete Gen1 team that I used Clefable as my Wish wall of choice before Chansey received her uprgrade! Eviolite has been a blessing for Chansey, giving her much more of a mixed wall look than her big sister Blissey. The standard Wish set aides my team greatly, often passing on massive wishes to Alakazam who can then take advantage of Focus Sash once again. When the likes of Machamp is threatened early on, Chansey makes a great switch in. She can also take Special and neutral Physical hits that might otherwise hurt the rest of the team. Seismic Toss does great damage, often out matching Pokemon who depend on neutral attacks. Gengar works well with Chansey, allowing me to switch into Fighting moves once maybe even twice, helping me keep the momentum swinging in my favour. Toxic spreads status well, but being completely walled by her companion Gengar and Steel types. It's this lack of coverage that led me to the last member of the original generation.​



    THE PHYSICAL WALL
    [​IMG]
    252HP/252DEF/4SpcAtk
    Bold - Synchronize - Leftovers

    Will-O-Wisp
    Roost
    Roar
    Psychic

    Mew's ability to learn Will-O-Wisp was the main reason why my old Toxic Wall Vaporeon got the sack in favour of the versatile mouse. With Will-O-Wisp I can cripple Steel types that resist Toxic such as Skarmory. Roost gives Mew great durability while Roar phases out unstoppable threats such as Dragonite, Volcarona and Cloyster. Psychic is the STAB of choice and allows Mew to damage threats and force switches. Mew's balanced stats and great speed for a wall makes it an asset to the team, providing an aspect of unpredictability to the line up. Unfortunately, with Gengar, Alakazam and Mew, I have a gaping weakness to Dark types which means that Mew's spot in the team is definitely the least secure.


    THE ENEMIES


    [​IMG]

    Heatran is immune to both Toxic and Will-O-Wisp as well as the ability to suck up Outrages. I lack any sort of high powered water attack, forcing me to depend on Gengar and Alakazam for the unreliable Focus Miss, Machamp would have to be rationed carefully whenever this guy creeps up.


    [​IMG]

    So many varieties, immune to Toxic, resistant to Outrage and neutral to Focus Blast. I am lost as to how to beat this little f****r without a fire attack hidden somewhere. Perhaps HP fire on Mew? But that would mean sacrificing a move...


    [​IMG]
    Even though Gengar and Alakzam pack Focus Blast, it's always a risk that Tyranitar may be Choiced or carrying a Chopple Berry. I usually have to save Machamp if it's on the opposing team. Mew is completely outmatched and walls should never be at risk of Pursuit...


    [​IMG]

    Immune to Toxic, neutral to Fighting moves and carrying Spikes/SR and Whirlwind when my team has no Rapid Spin support is horrible to face. It can cripple Dragonite, ridding him of his Multiscale. Even with Fire Punch, 2 Dragon Dances are required in order to have a chance at 1HKO. One Dance Fire Punch is usually enough for a Whirlwind/Roost to get rid of.


    As my weaknesses show, this is truly a first Gen team through and through lol :D. Dark and Steel were implemented to nerf Dragon and Psychic, two types I depend heavily on. Thanks for reading I put a great deal of effort into this article :) Any suggestions are welcomed! :)
  2. The QWAZ

    The QWAZ

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    You say jirachi is an issue but d-nite has fire punch machamp can confuse it and force it out and mew can roar it so i wouldnt say it is that much of an issue
  3. WeStIRL

    WeStIRL

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    Yeah true but it's just one of those Pokemon that seems to cause me problems, as Dnite has a tendency to get flinched and sometimes Jirachi carries self healing moves that heals more than a non-bossted Fire Punch can dish out.
  4. WeStIRL

    WeStIRL

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    Bump for some feedback.
  5. hickyman

    hickyman

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    i really like this team, probably because this is my favourite gen of pokemon :) you have also thought about your strengths and weaknesses a lot for a specific gen based team which is good! would love to battle you ^.^
  6. Arcticblast

    Arcticblast improsin + bapongbas gg,,,,,,
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a SPL Winner
    Other Metas Leader

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    Why do you have both Gengar and Alakazam on the same team? The two are incredibly similar and share many of the same counters. If you want another special attacker, I suggest trying out Starmie over Alakazam.

    [​IMG] @ Life Orb
    Timid nature
    252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 SpD
    -Hydro Pump
    -Thunderbolt / Rapid Spin
    -Ice Beam / Rapid Spin
    -Recover

    While not as strong as Alakazam, Starmie gives you a powerful special attacker who can solve multiple problems that your team has - your weaknesses to Heatran and rain. Starmie's Hydro Pump deals massive damage to anything that doesn't resist it (or is named Chansey or Blissey) and Rapid Spin, if you choose to use it, allows Dragonite to switch in and preserve Multiscale while preserving Chansey's health as well.

    By the way, the most successful team archetype that can be exclusively done by GenI Pokemon is Sun. With Drought Ninetails, Chlorophyll Venusaur, and Multiscale Dragonite all being threatening OU Pokemon, and Pokemon such as Dugtrio and Chansey also being relatively common on these teams, you have a nice selection.
  7. Episode36

    Episode36

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    135
    Hey, I like your idea, even if the options are limited! You might consider Waterfall or Earthquake in place of Roost on your Dragonite. That would help you against Steels, or just general coverage. This means you'll probably only get one or two Dragon Dances at most, though, so it's up to you. You could also try a defensive DD variant, and use him as your last Pokemon for late game sweeping. Sub/Dragon Claw/DD/Roost with Leftovers. Get the DD's in where you can, recover to Multiscale before dropping below half health, sweep what's left when ready.

    Your Machamp seems fine to me.

    As for Alakazam, you might consider Life Orb and a Hidden Power (Electric for Gyarados? Fire for steels? Ice for Gliscor and dragons?) in place of Calm Mind. That way you are ready to attack right away, and with Magic Guard, you take no LO recoil. Your coverage is also improved. Edit: I also approve of possible going with Starmie in place of either Gengar or Alakazam.

    Gengar seems fine. When I built this team from the same template, I chose to go with Life Orb, no sub, and 4 attacks for coverage. Shadow Ball, Thunderbolt, Icy Wind, Energy Ball. Obviously you can use Focus Blast in place of one of those, which might be better. I just hate the accuracy on it though.

    Chansey and Mew both do their jobs, so I don't have much to comment on for their sets.

    Cool idea, though! Sorry that you are leaving Smogon.
  8. PenguinX

    PenguinX slow loris ˁ(⦿ᴥ⦿)ˀ

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    This actually looks like a pretty interesting team given the restrictions you've put on yourself. Theres only one major change that I can recommend, and that would be to replace Chansey with Magneton. Without any steel-types you are really just asking for stuff like Dragonite and Haxorus to run through a lot of your team. With your 151-only restriction, Magneton is the only steel-type available to you, but it helps out most of your team members immensly. Machamp and Dragonite greatly appreciate Skarmory being disposed of early game; similarly, Alakazam and Gengar really love the removal of SDef Jirachi from the opponents team. Magneton also traps Scizor, who you really have no safe switch-in for, since everything is going to take a lot of damage from either U-turn or Bullet Punch.

    Magneton has pretty much 2 viable movesets in OU: Choice Scarf and Substitute 3 Attacks. Choice Scarf allows Magneton to act as a revenge-killer to a huge range of threats, as well as boost momentum with Volt Switch on a predicted switch. However, this comes at the cost of being far less potent at eliminating Ferrothorn, especially in the Rain. Substitute variants can't revenge-kill as well as scarfed variants due to being significantly slower, but works better to gradually wear down bulkier steels such as non-Bulldoze Ferrothorn while utilizing substitute to block Thunder Wave and Leech Seed.

    Magneton @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Magnet Pull
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Volt Switch
    - Thunderbolt
    - Flash Cannon
    - Hidden Power [Ice] / Hidden Power [Fire]

    Magneton @ Eviolite
    Trait: Magnet Pull
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Substitute
    - Charge Beam / Flash Cannon
    - Thunderbolt / Flash Cannon
    - Hidden Power [Fire]

    As for smaller changes, I suggest Hidden Power [Ice] over Calm Mind on Alakazam to give you a solid check to Dragonite if it manages to set-up, as well as revenge-killing Choice Scarf Salamence who can run through a lot of your team if it grabs a Moxie boost. I'd also run Stealth Rock over Roar on Mew, since your team currently lacks it and running Roar with no hazards isn't really going to get you anywhere. Will-O-Wisp should be enough to stop most Pokemon from attempting to set-up on you.

    In Summary:
    Scarf / Sub Magneton over Chansey
    Hidden Power [Ice] over Calm Mind on Alakazam
    Stealth Rock over Roar on Mew

    Also I'm kind of supporting the Starmie suggestion if you feel you are Heatran weak, or you could run Earthquake over Roost or Fire Punch on Dragonite to help alleviate that.

    Good luck!
  9. Darkerones

    Darkerones

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    The EVs on Machamp seem a little wack,the 4 Speed and 8 SDef isnt doing anything,put those in Attack. i would also suggest using Substitute over Bullet Punch,yes you lose priority but Steel isnt going to hit much. Machamp can force quitea bit of switches and with Substitute you can fully take advantage of those switches.

    Try Dragon Claw over Outrage on Dnite just so common Steels such as Forretress dont try and set up while youre locked in. Also consider using a bulkier EV spread if you are using Roost.

    Alakazam is awesome and all but I sort of agree with the Starmie suggestion. Theres a reason both Starmie and Gengar have been OU since the beginning.
    Another awesome option from Gen 1 that provides spin is Tentacruel.

    If you wanted a Special Wall,why didnt you just use Snorlax? Now you have a phazer too and you keep offensive pressure on the opponent with that sweet 110 Attack.
    Chansey is cool too though. Though I would transfer those 4 EVs in Speed to SDef,and consider using Heal Bell/Aromatherapy on her.

    I noticed in your threat list that you wanted to put HP FIRE on MEW. WTF? Why would you ever use Hidden Power on Mew? Just use Fire Blast! Mew can learn every TM.
  10. WeStIRL

    WeStIRL

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    It's really nice to finally receive some genuine suggestions and constructive criticism :)
  11. King of Blades

    King of Blades

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    Ok, this team is pretty cool, and I'm glad to see gen1 isn't being almost completely ignored.

    You mentioned that it is tough to set up calm mind with alakazam. Your solution is encore over shadow ball. I have tried this, and it works extremely well at cleaning up weakened teams. It is also one of the best counters to something like whimsicott. Magic guard protects against leech seed, and encore can lock him into one of his support moves. I don't know about you, but I generally enjoy free boosts.

    By the time you're done with alakazam, your set should look like this:
    [​IMG]
    Focus Sash, Timid, Magic Guard
    EVs 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 HP
    ~ Psyshock
    ~ Focus Blast
    ~ Encore
    ~ Calm Mind

    Considering your problem with having no water move, I suggest switching from gengar to the original water type physical attacker: Gyarados!!!

    Your set should look something like this:
    [​IMG]
    Leftovers, Adamant, Intimidate
    EVs 56 HP / 248 Atk / 204 Spe
    ~ Substitute
    ~ Dragon Dance
    ~ Waterfall
    ~ Bounce / Stone Edge / Outrage


    That is a decent set to use. (this was taken straight from smogon, except for the outrage part, which, imo, gives him great neutral coverage.) This will help fix your weakness to jirachi, as he can beat any set without psychic/shock, thunder punch, thunderbolt, or that doesn't just completely hax you to death. He also fixes your weakness to heatran, as the only thing that heatran could ever do to it was hidden power, and hp rock or electric is not common on heatran any more. His intimidate allows him to force out or drop the power of tyranitar, as after he kills a pokemon, you can switch him in and lower his attack, then switch out, or dragon dance after predicting a switch. It will also help combat dragons slightly, as intimidate will weaken their main form of damage dealing moves.

    Alternatively, you could replace the EV spread with a bulkier spread of 252 HP / 152 Def / 106 Spe with an impish nature. This will allow you to survive adamant 252 Att, -1 att (intimidated) T-tar's stone edge after stealth rock and sandstorm damage, as well as outpacing up to unboosted 252 Speed base 103s after a dragon dance, along with unboosted 4 speed base 93s before a dragon dance.

    Also, replace mew's roar with taunt, as that will allow you to annoy stall to the end of the earth, which clearly you have some trouble with because almost all of them carry skarmory.

    EDIT: Another thing to do is replace dragonite's outrage with dragon claw, and fire punch with earthquake. This will help you combat steels, as you won't be locked in on outrage for a few turns, and most of the stuff that you don't kill with earthquake that you can with fire punch can't do an excessive amount of damage to you anyway. (unless they run gyro ball) Also, if you don't like the gyarados, I think ArcticBlast's suggestion of life orb starmie is good. Also, I agree with Darkerones's suggestion of snorlax over chansey. It will give you the ability to phase, and it is still a great special wall.


    Hope this helped!
  12. WeStIRL

    WeStIRL

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    I'll have a proper look at all the critic later when I'm not so bombarded with school work!!!
  13. Motagua

    Motagua El Ciclón Azul

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    Hey there! Big challenge you got there considering how much the 5th gen changed completely the current OU metagame. Roost sounds always great to use in conjunction of Multi-scale, however Dragonite will not be able to set-up against pokemons with high offensive power like Rotom-W or Heatran even if you Roost unless MS is activated. I believe that by changing its EV spread to 252 HP / 44 Atk / 212 Spd will allow Dragonite to take full advantage of Roost & Multiscale and set-up several DD. With the given EV Spread, Heatran does a minimum of 48% with HP Ice to Dragonite when he Roosts, meaning that you can even get more chances to set-up! If you are only using 2 attacking moves, replace Fire Punch for Earthquake. This will give you easier time with Heatran while being able to hit pokemons like Jirachi & Metagross harder. Also, use Dragon Claw instead of Outrage. You don´t want to switch-out after getting a +2 or higher due to the confusion and run Leftovers as your item of choice.

    I also agree with Arcticblast´s suggestion of using Life Orb Starmie instead of Alakazam. Gengar & Alakzam pretty much do the same job and they got the same counters. Starmie on the other hand, allows you to remove Stealth Rock keeping Dragonite´s Multi-scale unscathed.

    You definitely need SR on your team to keep Volcarona or Dragonite at bay. Mew will get easily 2HKO´d by Outrage and most D-nite´s carry a Lum Berry to get rid of status effects, while factoring W-o-W´s crappy accuracy. I think that you could change Chansey´s moveset to Softboiled / Toxic / Seismic Toss / Stealth Rock. Mew and Dragonite have their own form of recovery anyways and Gengar is too frail to be able to get a Wish anyways, while Machamp´s low Speed burdens him as most pokemon will 2HKO at least anyways.

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