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Originally OU funsies...

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Tsukaheiru, Jan 11, 2013.

  1. Tsukaheiru

    Tsukaheiru

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2013
    Messages:
    2
    So I originally came back to the overused metagame out of a half-interest and the will to use two of my favorite Pokemon competitively to see where it'd get me (Dragonite and Alakazam). I managed to get close to 1700 on Showdown (1675 tbth only a 13/3/0 record so I could surge upward of downward at this point), but have run into a bit of a problem with my team. I've come to find that while it does what it sets out to do somewhat adequately, I have pretty big holes in my team. I'm trying to patch up my team without completely disposing of my two favorites (though if it comes to that, I may just make another team around their usage). Changing sets
    is entirely alright.

    [​IMG]

    Forretress (M) @ Red Card
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
    Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
    - Explosion
    - Rapid Spin
    - Spikes
    - Stealth Rock

    When I don't lead with Gengy or Drago, I'm opening with Forre. It runs a set that gives it phazing capabilities, and punishes early setup sweepers that think they can set up for free by surviving an attack with Sturdy, swapping them out with red card and then possibly blowing up in the next Pokemon's face (if the time of attack is accurately predicted- otherwise, I just play it safe and spam Rapid Spin). All the while, it gets up rocks and up to three spikes layers to make ko's easier for my three heavy hitters. This does leave me with a conundrum as it concerns spinning later in the game, however...

    [​IMG]

    Dragonite (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Multiscale
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Roost
    - Thunder Wave
    - Dragon Tail
    - ExtremeSpeed

    Many people succumb to this set since they simply don't see it coming. Support drago isn't all that rare, but so many people expect it to run an offensive set that they exert all kinds of effort trying to get rid of it or set up on it (Gyarados) and being crippled via thunder waves or phased instead. Plus, forcing switches racks up plenty of damage from Fore's entry hazards. This set doesn't handle status all that well, however. That aside, it's pretty much dead weight when it can't fulfill its functions on the team.

    -Roost increases is longevity substantially when used in conjunction with Multi Scale.
    -Thunder Wave cripples would-be counters and problematic Pokemon that run scarfs. Things like Haxrachi become a lot less problematic when they're slow.
    -Dragon Tail does a moderate amount of STAB damage while abusing the entry hazards that should be on the field and phazing potential threats.
    -Extremespeed may seem misplaced on this set, but it allows Dragonite to quickly switch in on and dispose of faster threats. This is especially necessary if Drago's multi scale is nullified by rocks- making use of t.wave and another move (Draco meteor?) impossible.

    [​IMG]

    Gengar (F) @ Black Sludge
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Disable
    - Substitute
    - Shadow Ball
    - Thunderbolt

    A very handy annoyer that allows me to deal with opposing Pokemon such as Terrakion and Gyarados or revenge kill slower variations of Starmie or even rare Zams. It can switch in to Conkeldurr, sub up and disable payback or stone edge too (since many players don't run multiple moves that can hit Gengar) The use of Subs and the (imperfect) coverage provided by STAB Shadow Ball and T.Bolt has allowed me to wreak havoc on opponents that don't have an immediate way to deal with Gengar. Though it doesn't hard counter all of Lucario's checks- it does soften them significantly.

    [​IMG]

    Alakazam (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Magic Guard
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Psyshock
    - Focus Blast
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Shadow Ball


    Plays a powerful revenge kill game- and once it's in and slinging attacks, it's hard to switch into it without losing at least one Pokemon. It only finds Scizor and bulky dragons truly problematic, but SD Scizor sets are one shot, and dragons can't truly switch in without putting themselves at serious risk of eating a hazard aided psyshock (or a shadow ball, in Latios's case) for serious damage.


    [​IMG]

    Lucario (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - ExtremeSpeed
    - Bullet Punch
    - Swords Dance
    - Close Combat


    The team is built around leading to a SD Luke setup sweep (though it could do a much better job of cleaning up for him).


    [​IMG]

    Vaporeon (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Water Absorb
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spd
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Hydro Pump
    - Wish
    - Protect
    - Ice Beam


    Vappy is a form of support (especially for Gengar and Dragonite) in terms of wish. But just like Dragonite, he hates status. I could attempt to throw a heal bell on it, but that poses a problem with a bit of four move syndrome.
    I could potentially replace T.Wave on Drago with a much more threatening option and Put Scald on Vapor though.



    -I run Hydro Pump as many of the Pokemon threatened by Scald also don't like eating a 120 BP STAB move. That aside, scald clashes with Dragonite's T.Wave. Greedy Shell Smash Cloysters are defeated by this handily without ever having to rely upon a chance for burn (relying upon the iffy accuracy from Hydro Pump instead...). Pokemon that aren't otherwise one shot by scald are threatened by Hydro Pump after Spikes and Stealth Rock take their toll (any Jirachi not running a thunder type move take heavy amounts of damage from Pump, while also being crippled by paralysis). The obvious downside is that Pokemon like Scizor can (more frequently than not at all) set up in my face during dry weather. I don't quite have the ability to shut down Jirachi's either.



    -Wish is used for recovery and support. It increases Vappy's longevity substantially in conjunction with protect, and allows for safer switch ins to other Pokemon (especially Gengar and Dragonite- the common recipients for wish).


    -Protect ^


    -Ice Beam is used partially for coverage- but also because Vaporeon is often the only pokemon I can safely switch in on a DD user and immediately threaten with a move that can OHKO (I'm looking at you, Salamence and Rocks damaged Drago).





    My team's immediate weaknesses that come to mind:


    -Turning teams tear me to shreds without heavy prediction and really smart play. Especially if they manage to get my Dragonite down early on.


    -I often have to rely on my opponent to defeat them self to counter more common threats (attempting to setup in my face with Foretress out; using SD instead of going for the immediate kill when my Zam's out against Scizor; falling for disable Gengar; or setting up 2 shell smashes with cloyster against my Vappy; etc).


    -I don't feel that it's easy enough to bring out Lucario for late game sweeps often enough.


    -Rotom.


    -My Pokemon individually could have stronger coverage options (I have no EQ on my team).


    -Status can rip me a new one.


    -I don't really have a Pokemon that can spin late game.


    -I can't reliably switch in on electric moves consistently.



    -I heavily rely upon getting up entry hazards- but often find that I'm unable to do so.


    But despite all of this, the team still functions fairly well. Does anyone have any ideas or answers? Ones that allow me to keep Drago and Zam especially. ><
  2. Cinco Diablo

    Cinco Diablo

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,260
    Hello.

    Nice balanced team you have going on here. This team seems to be very well put together, so I want to give you some props there. But as with every team, this one has it's flaws. Hopefully my rate can fix these flaws in one way or another. So without further adu, let's get to the rate! Up first, on your Forretress, Red Card isn't that good of an item choice, so I suggest changing it to Leftovers or Shed Shell. If you choose to go with Leftovers, your walling ability is dramatically increased, as you gain 1/8 of your health at the end of each turn. If you go with Shed Shell, you can escape from Magnezone, who likes to switch in to Forry. Staying on Forry, I would suggest using Gyro Ball in favour of Explosion, as Gyro Ball gives you a way to hit Rock types, which are always troublesome. Moving on, I think your Dragonite should have Substitute in favour of Extremespeed. Substitute aids you in helping Dragonite prevent status on it's own, while spreading it's own to the other team. Next up, you say that Status destroys this team, so a Support Blissey would work perfectly in Vaporeons spot, as she provides Wish support like no other and can help cure status that your team my suffer in the forme of Aromatherapy. Well, that's all I have to say for now. I hope my advice helped. Have fun and good luck with your team!

    Set (open)

    [​IMG]
    Blissey @ Leftovers Lv. 100 -- Natural Cure

    Nature: Calm - EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SDef

    - Seismic Toss
    - Toxic
    - Wish
    - Aromatherapy


    ~Dr Ciel~ (The doctor is OUT)
  3. Mosquiton

    Mosquiton Tette

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2010
    Messages:
    137
    Hi there, nice time!

    The first thing I notice is that you don't have a serious switch on tornadus' moves so I suggest a quick change: to put CalmRotomW > Vaporeon maintaining a bulkywater but at the same time get a ground and hurricane resistor but also a serious check to sheerlandorus that can give you some problem exspecially if is rockpolisher since outspeed all your team.
    Rotom thanks to voltswitch have the opportunity to earn momentum and boost your strategy but also can send the your better Pokèmon in the field to contrast the pokémon that the opponent send in the field to take rotom's voltswitch.
    At this point you should put substitute > extreeme speed in this way earn even more annoying power that combined with the multiscale makes the Substitute difficult to break, at th same time the opponent will lose turn thanks to ThunderWave and you can take advantage for use Roost and re-activate the Scale.
    All this will allow you to use more times dragontail and cause a lot of damage with hazards.
    As a final step you should use focus sash on Alakazam, so you buy a "bonus" that will allow you to attack twice a Pokémon that can bother you without fear of being OHKO.

    Sets:
    Show Hide

    >RotomW over Vaporeon
    >Substitute over ESpeed @Dnite
    >Sash over LifeOrb @Alakazam

    Rotom-W @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Volt Switch
    - Pain Split
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Hydro Pump
  4. Tsukaheiru

    Tsukaheiru

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2013
    Messages:
    2
    Sub on Drago makes sense. I've been considering it for a while, but haven't thought out all of its potential uses. Weighing it against ES always made me feel as if I were creating a bit of a vulnerability to revenge kills, but I could always bring out Luke or one of my myriad of other speedy Pokes to mop up a mess like that.

    Replacing Vaporeon with Blissey would give me a solution to the status problem- but it's a lot less problematic if Drago runs sub. I'll only really have to worry about paralysis on Zam and Burn/Para on Luke (which never really happens anyway). On top of that it'd leave me with a giant dragon problem- since a multi-scale/DD Dragonite would then be able to switch in and stomp me without real opposition.

    Rotom is definitely an option- but I'm tempted to throw on an HP ice instead of WoW. I mean, WoW itself would prevent such Pokemon asDrago and Mence from truly threatening me- but I am still missing an ice type move on my team. Maybe I should put it on Gengy instead... T.Bolt isn't quite as important if I run Rotom. But isVolt Switch enough to stop Gyaras cold? Am I over thinking it? >< I'll miss the wish, but Rotom does seem like a better option...

    Zam really needs the power from LO though- esp since he runs Timid instead of Modest to maximize speed, and I do rely heavily on his power in several cases where I need to dispose of anything that has even the slightest bulk.

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