OU Analyses Discussion Thread

[FrocoTerra]

Hi, just would like to point out now that Serperior is really common you may want to recommend Haze over Acid Spray on Tentacruel sets

 

[Poek]

If Serperior uses Leaf Storm at +0 vs a Tentacruel, it will survive that. If it uses Acid Spray, the Special Attack boost will already be lowered to 0. It only really works against a boosted Serperior, though. I feel like Acid Spray is still better. I'm not a council member / QC though so it's ofc up to them.

I don't necessarily agree with haze over acid spray, but acid spray doesn't lower spatk, it lowers SpD. And, thanks to Contrary, it will just boost its SpD. (correct me if I am wrong)
Also, I feel like in a MSableye meta acid spray is necessary, and it's also cool to force out shit like clef and slowbro. just my opinion though.

 

[Politoad]

I don't necessarily agree with haze over acid spray, but acid spray doesn't lower spatk, it lowers SpD. And, thanks to Contrary, it will just boost its SpD. (correct me if I am wrong)
Also, I feel like in a MSableye meta acid spray is necessary, and it's also cool to force out shit like clef and slowbro. just my opinion though.

Thanks, I forgot that :X deleting my post rn. Ugh Contrary is annoying.

 

[tehy]

252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tentacruel: 122-146 (33.5 - 40.1%)

Even if you have max SpD tenta (way nonstandard) you can't switch into Serp, and

+2 252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tentacruel: 329-387 (90.3 - 106.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Yea...

plus sludge does over half...seriously, what relevance does serpVcruel have that you'd give up acid spray for it?

 

[AM]

Haze lets you not get 6-0'd by BD Azumarill which is one of Haze's biggest uses. I've had a lot of success with it and tbh for the Tentacruel revamp I'd rather see it slashed than just have a measly mention. Tentacruel is a terrible check to Serperior anyways so you're not using Haze for these reasons. Most of the defensive set up sweepers that you would hit with Haze need two set ups to get the ball rolling and that's plenty of time for a secondary partner to come in and finish the job. Haze is fine but you guys are looking at it for the completely wrong reasons.

 

[Martin]

Riding on the Forretress train, it seems that Forretress would come under the same boat as Flygon. It is outclassed by another Pokemon in its role (offensive Dragon-/Ground-type for Flygon by Garchomp, defensive Steel-type hazard remover/hazard layer for Forry by Skarm, Ferrothorn and SpD Exca) but it has d rank viability on the basis that it can do something that the other can't (Flygon=Defog+immunity to Spikes/T-Spikes/Sticky Web, Forry=both hazard layer and remover in one set (due to Rapid Spin over Defog)). This gives it an exceptionally small niche. Does that make it good? No. Its bulk is worse than Ferrothorn, Rapid Spin is almost always worse than Defog (vs. Skarm), it is somewhat lacking in offensive presence (vs. SpD Exca) and, worst of all, it suffers from a case of being a jack of all trades but a master of none. This makes it heavily suffer in the vast majority of cases, and it means that it only works under extremely specific circumstances (all members are vital and you absolutely need the ability to set up spikes, set up SR and spin all in one Pokemon) and only with one set (Custap+Spikes+Spinr+Rocks). Not worth an analysis IMO unless we decide to give every D-rank an analysis, and also only if it even moves up to D.

It is like Donphan. It is unique, but it is bad regardless due to the existence of other Pokemon. You can't just say that something is worth using because they have one thing that they can do that nothing else can't if it fails in the metagame regardless. That's just common sense.

 

[Ptyra]

Isn't EQ+Fire Punch better than Thunder Punch+Superpower on Dragonite now ?
With Multiscale and EQ, Dragonite is able to RK Mega Diancie et Mega Metagross (however Gross will probably be banned). It is also Dragonite's best way to hit Mega Altaria.
Maybe that's just me, but EQ+Fire Punch seems better in the current meta.

 

[Karxrida]

Isn't EQ+Fire Punch better than Thunder Punch+Superpower on Dragonite now ?
With Multiscale and EQ, Dragonite is able to RK Mega Diancie et Mega Metagross (however Gross will probably be banned). It is also Dragonite's best way to hit Mega Altaria.
Maybe that's just me, but EQ+Fire Punch seems better in the current meta.

As far as I can tell, Thunderpunch and Superpower were never run over Earthquake and Fire Punch. Unless you're talking about Gen 5, but I think every then it was the latter.

 

[Alfalfa]

As far as I can tell, Thunderpunch and Superpower were never run over Earthquake and Fire Punch. Unless you're talking about Gen 5, but I think every then it was the latter.

Actually, Thunder Punch and Superpower were run on Dragonite during late XY, so yes, there were ran for a short period of time.

 

[Martin]

boltsandbombers referred to this in part a few pages ago by saying that the bulky set needs a revamp, but I feel that Starmie needs a complete revamp (i.e. both its offensive and defensive sets). With the shifts in the metagame, there are a number of moves which weren't worth using when the current analysis of it was written which have become viable due to new threats in the meta (e.g. Dazzling Gleam for M-Sableye).

 

[AM]

boltsandbombers referred to this in part a few pages ago by saying that the bulky set needs a revamp, but I feel that Starmie needs a complete revamp (i.e. both its offensive and defensive sets). With the shifts in the metagame, there are a number of moves which weren't worth using when the current analysis of it was written which have become viable due to new threats in the meta (e.g. Dazzling Gleam for M-Sableye).

Starmie needs some updates but there is no point in Dazzling Gleam. You do more damage with Hydro Pump and Scald for its burn chance will cripple M-Sableye tremendously.

Set wise Starmies offensive set is fine but the defensive set really needs Psyshock slashed with Reflect Type afterwards. It's too much of a liability to lose to Keldeo and Reflect Type has lost a lot of its effects due to prevalence of Scarf Tar and the loss of coverage against Keldeo is a huge burden when running Reflect Type, something that sees only a handful of uses now against slower builds mostly.

 

[Hootie]

Just thought I would chime in and say that Rock Head Tyrantrum is finally released today! I'd say it finally has worthy niche in OU as hard hitting Head Smasher making it much more powerful than CB Ttar and therefore deserving of an analysis.

Here's calc showing how powerful this thing is:
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyrantrum Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 129-152 (36.6 - 43.1%) -- 98.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

[Politoad]

Just thought I would chime in and say that Rock Head Tyrantrum is finally released today! I'd say it finally has worthy niche in OU as hard hitting Head Smasher making it much more powerful than CB Ttar and therefore deserving of an analysis.

Here's calc showing how powerful this thing is:
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyrantrum Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 129-152 (36.6 - 43.1%) -- 98.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

I agree with you but I personally think a DD set could be good to make up for Tyrantrum's low Speed. (Maybe even over Band)

 

[Hootie]

I agree with you but I personally think a DD set could be good to make up for Tyrantrum's low Speed. (Maybe even over Band)

The problem with that is that it's still out sped by Mega Lopunny and that unlike mega Ttar it doesn't have the bulk to take bps from Scizor or Mach Punches from Breloom. It does resist Brave bird which is nice. Too many dragon dancers in OU are imo more effective. Idk I think it's better off spamming cb head smashes like no tomrrow since that capitalizes on its niche.

 

[Politoad]

The problem with that is that it's still out sped by Mega Lopunny and that unlike mega Ttar it doesn't have the bulk to take bps from Scizor or Mach Punches from Breloom. It does resist Brave bird which is nice. Too many dragon dancers in OU are imo more effective. Idk I think it's better off spamming cb head smashes like no tomrrow since that capitalizes on its niche.

Yeah but without it it's p easily revenge killed. For example, it fails to outspeed even Rotom-W w/ 44 Spe.

 

[Hootie]

Yeah but without it it's p easily revenge killed. For example, it fails to outspeed even Rotom-W w/ 44 Spe.

Well of course it's easily outsped, but that doesn't stop it from switching out after head smashing something. And max speed adamant Tyrantrum easily out speeds 44 Rotom-W.

 

[Politoad]

Well of course it's easily outsped, but that doesn't stop it from switching out after head smashing something. And max speed adamant Tyrantrum easily out speeds 44 Rotom-W.

Oh I forgot that it has 71 Spe, I mixed it up with Rampardos's Speed. My bad, anyhow, we better take this somewhere else if this is going to be continued (most likely will not though).

 

[Sergi]

i think landorus needs an oras update. u know the prevalence of sdef gliscor have changed how lando choose moves. for example, psychic is really uncommon rn, since it was used to hit neutrally scor/landot/lando + most levitate/flying mons unlike sludge wave, but since even psychic is jackshit vs sdef scor, people have stopped using it. so it needs some changes in slashes and explanation in his sets.

 

[Ptyra]

Kyurem-B needs a complete revamp, not just a SubRoost set.
The Scarf set is the best imo, Scarf Kyu-B is an amazing revenge killer and a very good cleaner with Outrage (once Fairies and Steel-types are gone).

Dragonite must have a small update with EQ+Fire punch instead Superpower+Thunder Punch.
There's a long time that Kingdra needs a revamp (since Deo-S's ban in fact), I don't see why he still doesn't have one.
Amoonguss must have a new EV spread. Personally I use 252 HP / 164 +Def / 92 SpD to avoid a 2HKO from Jolly Mega Lopunny after SR and Spore her, but I don't think that's the best option.

 

[DarkNostalgia]

Wait scarf kyube is it's best set? I thought it was the sub+3 attacks set... Kingdra's set just need to get rid of deo-s mentions and prolly the first spread.
Why does swampert need a revamp though? I saw mysteria's swampert analysis and it was perfectly fine.

And I dunno if I should put this here, but I've posted this on a few qc member's walls and so far only AM has replied asking for qc checks and opinions on my Gothitelle analysis, and so far i haven't gotten anyway, so it would be great if someone would.

 

[Ptyra]

No Kingdra needs a revamp. I've played a lot with rain, this moveset is not good.

Mixed Rain Sweeper
########
name: Mixed Rain Sweeper
move 1: Hydro Pump
move 2: Draco Meteor
move 3: Outrage / Rain Dance
move 4: Waterfall / Surf
item: Life Orb
evs: 64 Atk / 252 SpA / 192 Spe
nature: Rash / Modest


Personnaly I use 228 Spe EVs to outspeed Scarf Latios and Keldeo in rain. I think this is a good benchmark because Scarf Keldeo is a huge threat to rain teams, and Scarf Latios can stop Kingra and Kabutops's sweep.

Rain Dance is not a good move on Kingdra, the opportunities to set RD are very rare.
Waterfall is not really good, it's quite weak without Atk investment. Even after a Draco Meteor, Hydro Pump is still reliable thanks to rain.
Scald is a better option, because it's more reliable than Hydro Pump (which has only 80% accuracy) and can burn checks like Azumarill, Ferrothorn and Mega Altaria.
Ice Beam can be slashed with Outrage because it allows Kingdra to beat Mega Altaria and Celebi, but has no utility outside of this.

Here the new set I propose :

Rain Sweeper
########
name: Rain Sweeper
move 1: Hydro Pump
move 2: Draco Meteor
move 3: Scald / Waterfall
move 4: Outrage / Ice Beam
item: Life Orb
evs: 28 Atk / 252 SpA / 228 Spe
ivs : 29 HP
nature: Rash / Modest

 

[Sergi]

hey i think seismitoad need an update. i mean it actually only has a rain set which is... lackluster. i guess its a relic from xy era since i wouldnt use it when m pert exist for that niche of sswimmer that takes on electrics and inmune to prankster twave and m pert hits hard actually, 85 offenses and bad movepool isn't helpful much. but a sr set needs to be added: uncommon typing and ability that lets it to take on electrics very good and inmune to scald, with good support movepool (sr scald knoc off toxic) and great hp + decent defense to check some physicals like zard x, m meta (bar gk, sucks u need another check), talon, azu, etc. good niche sr user overall.

 

[Ninja Charizard]

Now that Tyrantrum has been ranked, shouldn't it be getting an analysis?

 

[Agent Gibbs]

I brought this up in the Charizard thread to no avail, and since that analysis is already in the GP stage, I figured it'd be a good idea to bring it back up in this thread:

Oh yeah, forgot to bring this up earlier. Thoughts on Swords Dance + STABs + Roost? It's a set that I've seen here and there over the past couple of months (chimpact mentioned it in his POTW thread, if I remember right), and I've used it a little myself. It's a bit of a terror for slower teams to face since it can even OHKO 252/252+ Hippowdon with a +2 Flare Blitz if it gets a high damage roll and can do even more damage to a minimally invested Mega Altaria, and unlike the Swords Dance + Tailwind set, it's harder for these teams to wear down thanks to the presence of Roost. If you don't want to make it its own set, one other option would be to make the current "Swords Dance + Tailwind" set into a more general "Swords Dance" set with Roost either slashed next to Tailwind or mentioned in Moves (Dragon Claw would need a bigger mention as well since it works better alongside Roost than Outrage, in my opinion). I know it's kinda late since this is already into the GP stage, but just thought I'd float that idea out there.

 

[AM]

I brought this up in the Charizard thread to no avail, and since that analysis is already in the GP stage, I figured it'd be a good idea to bring it back up in this thread:

I'd prefer to make that an option with the Tailwind set and just call it SD Char-X tbh. Then again there's a lot of variations to the Zards so we'll be working on that.