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OU Baton Pass

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Blind5pot, Jul 26, 2013.

  1. Blind5pot

    Blind5pot

    Joined:
    May 4, 2013
    Messages:
    20
    Hi, Blindspot here. My fiance and I just recently started playing the competitive side of Pokemon, and I am currently seeking help with my team. I'm brand new to baton pass teams, and would appreciate any help I can get. I decided to make the team without a sweeper. Just added one attack on each pokemon. I think it works a lot better.



    Team preview:


    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]







    [​IMG]
    Ninjask @ Leftovers
    Trait: Speed Boost
    EVs: 248 HP / 224 Def / 36 Spd
    Impish Nature
    - Baton Pass
    - Protect
    - Substitute
    - X-Scissor


    I prefer Ninjask for the speed boost.
    He seems like a safer option.At least this bulky set is.
    Basically switching between sub and protect until I pass the speed for my team to get started.



    [​IMG]
    Celebi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 224 SDef / 32 Spd
    Calm Nature
    - Calm Mind
    - Baton Pass
    - Giga Drain
    - Hidden Power [Fire]


    I personally love Celebi on this team.
    Can heal with Giga drain, and can take care of other Celebi's, which used to be a major problem for me. Which is why I put HP fire on her.



    [​IMG]
    Espeon @ Leftovers
    Trait: Magic Bounce
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Bold Nature
    - Baton Pass
    - Calm Mind
    - Stored Power
    - Substitute


    To go along with Celebi, I put in Espeon for another CM user.
    Magic bounce is a must, so that I don't get roared/whirlwinded away. On a baton pass team, stored power is so powerful ^_^



    [​IMG]
    Vaporeon @ Leftovers
    Trait: Water Absorb
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Bold Nature
    - Scald
    - Wish
    - Baton Pass
    - Acid Armor

    Vaporeon is very useful to me.
    Sets up my team's defense boost, and has wish to keep the team alive.
    Only thing that worries me is the lack of sub on my team. So I have to watch out for dragon tail.
    [​IMG]
    Mr. Mime @ Leftovers
    Trait: Soundproof
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Def
    Calm Nature
    - Baton Pass
    - Encore
    - Psychic
    - Barrier

    Another defense booster. Works well with Mr.Mine, considering his high sp.def stat. However, Mr.Mime is needed for much more.
    He is needed to protect my team against perish song. Without him, my team could be defeated in just 3 moves. (At least the chain, which is very upsetting)
    Encore is nice to have, to trap a pokemon in a boosting move, then baton pass to Zapdos to roar them away.
    [​IMG]
    Zapdos @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 248 HP / 236 Def / 24 Spd
    Bold Nature
    - Thunderbolt
    - Baton Pass
    - Roar
    - Substitute


    Zapdos (which was just recently added) is very much needed for this team, simply because of roar.
    This is only the second pokemon on my team with substitute on it. Which worries me a little, but I'm not sure if it matters TOO much. Is 2 enough?





    So, if you have any advice for my team, please let me know. Thank you for your time, and I look forward to hearing from someone soon.
    scotti likes this.
  2. Blind5pot

    Blind5pot

    Joined:
    May 4, 2013
    Messages:
    20
    Just found out that Snorlax is a major problem to this team. I don't really know what to do to this team in order to fix that issue. So, if you're any good with baton pass teams, please help me out. Thank you in advance.
  3. Hopkinc1

    Hopkinc1

    Joined:
    May 14, 2013
    Messages:
    104
    Just thinking.... what exactly are you baton passing to? Most Baton Passing Teams Baton pass to a mixed sweeper of some sort but this seems like it's just baton passing to be annoying. Now if the plan is to stack kills and baton pass through everything to get kills then that's cool I guess but keep in mind Sableye can completely shut this down if you face one with taunt, unless you hard switch into Espeon, in which case you lose all your work. My advice is to remove one pokemon and put in a mixed sweeper for the end result. It annoys the fuck out of people but it's better than having to start all the way over every time.
  4. Sashay

    Sashay From The Ashes
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator
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    Messages:
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    Hi Blind5pot!

    This is a pretty cool Baton Pass idea, and I have a few suggestions that I feel will improve your team's performance. I would like to note firstly that Sableye (and to a lesser degree, Tornadus and Whimsicott), as a Prankster who carries Taunt, is an absolute stop to this team and there are things you can put into place so that you stand a chance against them. Also, Choiced Dragons will give this current team major issues, as many mons in this team are slower and can't boost Defense in time, and also there is nothing on the team to resist Dragon moves. But I'm going to cover everything bit by bit, and I even have a good replacement in mind, which will patch up a good many issues this team will face otherwise. Let's start with Ninjask. ^_^


    [​IMG]
    There are a few significant issues you can run into with your current set, the most detrimental of these being Taunt. To give you breathing room against a Taunt user, I'd like to suggest replacing Ninjask's Leftovers item with Mental Herb. This guarantees that Taunt is ineffective for a turn. It's only one time use, but that's all you need. The second issue your current Ninjask will have issues with is opposing setup sweepers who will lead and try to boost stats alongside you. While having X-scissor isn't a bad idea for having some sort of offense if you need it, I'd like to suggest replacing it with Toxic, so that opposing setup sweepers can't setup on you with impunity. Also, you may be worried about priority users such as Extremespeed Dragonite messing up your chain early on, but I also have an EV spread in mind that will guarantee you survive at least one priority attack (just a little more Defense investment) and also have enough health left to get a Substitute up (most of the time), as long as the incoming priority move isn't Ice Shard. My suggested changes are shown in the following set:

    Ninjask @ Mental Herb
    Trait: Speed Boost
    EVs: 248 HP / 236 Def / 24 Spd
    Bold Nature
    - Baton Pass
    - Protect
    - Substitute
    - Toxic


    [​IMG]
    This current Espeon set loses outright to Sableye, even though Magic Bounce deflects its tricky status moves. Stored Power does nothing to it while it Night Shades you to death. Calm Mind is good to be able to setup in its face while it can't Taunt or status you, but it's crucial that you have a move that can hit it. Many people would suggest running HP Fighting on Espeon to better deal with the likes of Tyranitar and Hydreigon, but Sableye is also immune to this. So, in order to super-effectively hit the Dark types that are immune to Stored Power and STILL be able to hit Sableye (and also Spiritomb for that matter), I recommend replacing Espeon's Substitute with Signal Beam. While Substitute does pass with Baton Pass and help the team tremendously (especially with random critical hits), that is not near as important on Espeon as being able to beat a trickster who would win 100% of the time otherwise. The set I recommend is as follows:

    Espeon @ Leftovers
    Trait: Magic Bounce
    EVs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 Spd
    Bold Nature
    - Baton Pass
    - Calm Mind
    - Stored Power
    - Signal Beam


    [​IMG]
    Vaporeon is a big part of this team's defensive core, and as such, I would like to recommend a few changes that will help it serve its defensive purpose the best it possibly can. While able to tremendously help with the team's physical defense, it also needs to be able to phaze the foes who try to setup alongside you (Ninjask's Toxic really helps to wear those down but it can't outstall them to death with Protect and Sub). Also it greatly needs Substitute or it will be defeated outright by the likes of Thundurus, and crippled by the likes of Ferrothorn. It's also interesting to note that Leech Seed, once caught in your Baton Pass chain, will continue to sap everyone in the chain, regardless of who the foe is later on, so this is a situation that's ideal to avoid whenever possible. For these reasons, I would like to suggest replacing Vaporeon's Scald and Wish to Roar and Substitute (Vaporeon's gargantuan HP stat also allows it to pass huge Substitutes that are very hard to take down after boosts). I know you have Zapdos for Roar, but Vaporeon is a better candidate for this; don't worry, I have a valid replacement for Zapdos which will greatly benefit the team, and I will get into to that during my segment on Zapdos. Also I'd like to suggest a shift in EVs from Def to Sp Def so that Vaporeon isn't completely screwed by special attackers who have an Electric or Grass coverage move. Its Defense it can boost on its own but its Special Defense needs proper investment for this reason. The set I recommend is as follows:

    Vaporeon @ Leftovers
    Trait: Water Absorb
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
    Calm Nature
    - Substitute
    - Roar
    - Baton Pass
    - Acid Armor


    [​IMG]
    Ah, the Perish Song solution. While this already serves as a crucial asset to the team, I'd like to suggest a few changes that will improve its performance under certain conditions. First of all, it needs a means to amplify its specially defensive prowess, and it also needs Substitute to allow for free turns after said boosts are gathered. This thing laughs at Politoed. It's not even 2HKOed by Politoed's Hydro Pump in Rain (before boosts), and that's on top of the fact that its Perish Song is blocked by Soundproof. But there's no need for Mr. Mime to run Barrier, there are better candidates for Defense boosting in a Baton Pass chain, the best of which I will cover in the next segment. I'm going to suggest replacing Psychic and Barrier here for Calm Mind and Substitute.

    Mr. Mime @ Leftovers
    Trait: Soundproof
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Def
    Calm Nature
    - Baton Pass
    - Encore
    - Calm Mind
    - Substitute


    [​IMG]
    This thing stuck out to me the moment I looked at the team. While it can be helpful in many situations, I feel this Pokemon is unnecessary as a part of this chain, because it can't boost, the Electric offense is not needed, and we've already given Roar to something that can make better use of it. I have something in mind to replace Zapdos with, that will patch up your Choiced Dragon weakness, and help you tremendously when against physical attackers of all sorts. It may seem odd at first, but take a minute to examine its qualities and how it can benefit the team in this regard like no other Pokemon can:




    [​IMG]


    Wait... you're joking, right? This NU tier piece of crap is what you're suggesting to patch up my team's problems? Why not Scizor? It gets Baton Pass and has obviously superior stats! Are you serious?!



    But alas, this is not a joke. This is the absolute best new candidate for the team, for a number of notable reasons. Firstly, take into account its Steel typing, which brings numerous important resistances (Dragon resistance is huge, also the ability to block Clear Smog to keep your boosts intact is huge). Secondly, add the Intimidate ability, which takes physical attackers down a notch right off the bat, before turns are even used for boosts. And lastly, the ability to Taunt with it (after being passed Speed from Ninjask) prevents tricky attempts by foes to try and screw up your chain or status you after they realize they can't muscle their way past you. The combination of these three things make Mawile perfect for this team, and allows you many free turns as you wall the enemy and continue to boost from behind a Substitute. Snorlax issue? Not anymore. Steel does have its weaknesses, but when played to its strengths, Mawile will very seldom disappoint you. This thing tanks so many hits after Intimidate and boosts, it's obscene. Celebi is always there to cushion Ground and Fighting attacks aimed at Mawile when necessary, and Vaporeon is there for the Fire attacks. Mawile also makes for a much better Defense booster than Mr. Mime, because it's complimented by Intimidate. ^_^ The set I recommend is as follows:

    Mawile @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 252 HP / 184 Def / 72 Spd
    Bold Nature
    - Substitute
    - Baton Pass
    - Taunt
    - Iron Defense


    Well, it's been fun. I am actually a big fan of Baton Pass teams since Magic Bounce and Stored Power make Espeon so incredibly potent this generation. I like to think of it as one big growing monster that has six health bars that it can switch to when it needs to. The Celebi set looks fine to me, although you may consider swapping HP Fire with Substitute later when you get annoyed at the random critical hits breaking your chain, but HP Fire can certainly help vs things like Ferrothorn and Scizor, which both 4x resist Giga Drain. Although I had my reasons to not run Substitute on Espeon, it cannot be stressed enough how important it is to keep a Sub up while using Baton Pass. Lots of Pokemon hit incredibly hard this generation and the possibility of a critical hit can easily take down your whole operation if you don't have that protection. I hope you find my suggestions helpful or at least thought-provoking. I wish you luck with your team! ^_^
  5. Blind5pot

    Blind5pot

    Joined:
    May 4, 2013
    Messages:
    20
    Briyella, thank you SO much! Your help is highly appreciated. Having only 2 attackers will be different, but it seems that's all I'll need.
    Just one question. Will not having wish be okay for a baton pass team?
    Again, thank you so much!
  6. Sashay

    Sashay From The Ashes
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Yes, it's fine. Wish can be good for HP recovery, but between Leftovers and Substitutes that will take multiple hits to break, Substitute is overall better. Wish would be excellent on Vaporeon but unfortunately you can only have four moves to a Pokemon. The four it has all serve more important purposes.

    You're welcome. ^_^

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