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OU CCAT - Mark III (Laddering/Discussing - See Post #547)

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by Electrolyte, Oct 8, 2012.

  1. TheStriker

    TheStriker

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    I'd like to nominate:

    [​IMG]

    Yanmega @ Life Orb
    Trait: Speed Boost
    EVs: 160 Def / 252 SpA / 96 Spd
    Nature: Modest (+SpA, -Atk)
    -Bug Buzz
    -Air Slash
    -Shadow Ball
    -Sleep Talk

    Yanmega is a dangerous threat even in OU. After a KO on something slow like Conkeldurr, it can sweep late-game and be impossible to revenge kill after a couple speed boosts under its belt. Blaziken got banned because of the ability, still Yanmega is overpowered in UU, so its great in OU. Sleep Talk can cause unpredictability because after a spore for Amoonguss it can hit it with two of its strong STAB moves. Shadow Ball provides great coverage. It even has a resitance to mach punch which is useful and survive some other band priority users such as Terrakion's band quick attack. Special priority is in vacuum wave and it has a resist to it so it doesn't matter.
  2. ClubbingSealCub

    ClubbingSealCub

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    Ok so my main gripe about the team is that we are very very Gene Weak, especially RP LO Gene who can crush our team with Ice beam / Bug Buzz / Giga Drain. Scarf Gene is also a pain but that can be dealt with proper prediction imo.

    We don't have a deditaced revengekiller so that's why I'm going to nominate...


    [​IMG]
    Celebi @ Choice Scarf
    Natural Cure
    4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    ~Leaf Storm
    ~Earth Power
    ~Hidden Power Fire
    ~Trick / U-turn /

    This Celebi patches up a few weaknessess. First, it's an additional fire / water resist so that Keldeo doesn't take too much abuse. It also acts as a great Gene bait because noone actually expects scarf Celebi. It's Leaf Storm lets us deal with bulky waters that could be troublesome for Keldeo. Trick lets us cripple something hard for the rest of the match which is pretty cool; U-turn lets us pull of a very quick turn (faster than Genesect by 1 point :D) and can grant potential switches for the rest of our team. HP Fire deals with Gene obv.

    RP Gene will eat us alive no matter what we do; and I've already suggested Heatran like 2 times. Someone else can nominate him >_<

    EDIT @ below: Celebi reaches 327 speed with HP Fire, Genesect tops out at 326.
  3. Masamune

    Masamune

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    252SpAtk Celebi (Neutral) Hidden Power (Fire) vs 4HP/0SpDef Genesect (Neutral): 94% - 111% (268 - 316 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 66% chance to OHKO.

    Not a guaranteed kill. Sending it out as a lead to counter opposing ScarfSect leads would be risky business, as 34% of the time you're getting OHKOed by U-Turn afterwards.

    Only a minor nitpick, but it's worth considering...

    EDIT: Wouldn't Celebi actually tie with Genesect, due to Celebi's speed being lowered by HP Fire?

    EDIT @ Yanmega: LO recoil + sandstorm + 50% SR damage upon each switch in surely makes it unusable on a team like this?
  4. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    I don't think that RP Genesect destroys us that badly. After giving to CBTar 228 Atk EVs and an Adamant nature, which are needed to OHKO Deo-D after ss, we still have 278 EVs to spend in bulk. If we go for 252 HP / 28 SpD, +1 Modest LO Giga Drain from Genesect does 53.46 - 63.11% to Ttar, and Ttar OHKOs back with Stone Edge doing 100% min. If Sect doesn't have Giga Drain then Ttar murders it even worse. So all we have to do is scout their Sect set a bit, and then if we believe that it is a RP variant keep our Ttar healthy.

    Something else that should be noted is that except from Gliscor, every other poke in our team gives to Genesect an Atk boost, and Latias, Keldeo, and Tyranitar can all OHKO Sect, while two of them outspeed it, meaning that Gensect will find very few chances to set up in the first place.
  5. ClubbingSealCub

    ClubbingSealCub

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    +1 252+ SpA Genesect Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 28 SpD Tyranitar: 408-480 (100.99 - 118.81%) -- guaranteed OHKO
  6. peng

    peng

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    I agree that we are weak to Rock Polish / Bug Buzz / Giga Drain / Flamethrower / Ice Beam Genesect.

    edit: also how does scarf celebi make us less weak to rock polish genesect

    Also just gonna say I'm supporting Scarf Terrakion here: its one of the few scarfers that actually matches-up decently vs rain (most of the common fighting resists like torn-t, thund-t, offensive starmie etc are 2hkod after rocks) plus more importantly its not complete set-up bait for Ferrothorn, who already gets plenty of opportunities to spike on us against Bronzong. On a team based around baton pass, limiting your opponents chances to set-up hazards is obviously pretty important and its the entire reason i really don't like scarf jirachi on this team.
  7. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    ^What PenguinX said. RP Gensect rarely uses Bug Buzz from my experience, as it really needs most of its coverage moves to deal with the most popular checks to him such as Terrakion, Rotom-W, and Keldeo.

    So i think we are ok with being weak to a quite rare set, as we can't cover everything, and most important things seems to be covered.
  8. ganj4lF

    ganj4lF Nobody is safe from the power of science!
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    Not going to nominate something this round, many option I had thought about are already posted so I'll just express my support to Scarf Rotom-W, that can give us an additional Water and Flying resistance while being neutral to Electric. This should lessen quite a bit pressure on Latias to absorb Hydro Pumps, and can check Tornadus-T somewhat, if our Bronzong gets caught in some nasty attack. I really love both Scarf Jirachi and Scarf Terrakion, but I think Rotom is just better here. If I can spare some time I'm going to test a bit the team with the various possibilities before voting, to have a better understanding of the team's strengths and weaknesses.
  9. ClubbingSealCub

    ClubbingSealCub

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    Wanted to say this, but you beat me to the point. RP Genesect is pretty rare in my experience (maybe I just dont have a high enough rating tho) but scarf Celebi can beat it with 1 round of SR damage if it has a -def nature or outright KO with a -spdef nature at least
  10. Vemane

    Vemane

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    I can't imagine any self respecting rp genesect going out WITHOUT bug buzz. Without that super powerful stab move, gene faces quite a bit more things hs can't KO (prods at ttar et al.).

    Not to mention that I was under the impression that the standard was generally bb+bolt beam for rp gene, with gd over bolt sometimes recently
  11. Temp V1

    Temp V1 Movin' at the speed of life and I can't slow down

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    A lot of people do run the obligatory stab, however to really maximise the effectiveness an offensive move combination of Ice Beam/Flamethrower/Giga Drain really works well. Straight up the amount of things that can beat Genesect is a lot lower than if you throw Bug Buzz over one of those moves. Granted things like Gyarados you may lose super effective coverage on, however at +1 Satk with a LO I don't really see a Gyarados taking two Giga Drains/Ice Beams all that well. Thats the moveset I run at least, and unless its a Heatran, Chansey or Blissey coming in, my opponent tends to lose.
    Thats not to say other combinations won't work, just from my experience thats the easiest to provide support around to facilitate a whole team sweep, chuck one strong physical Fighting type/Fighting move and your set.
  12. Reymedy

    Reymedy The Black Sun.
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    It's kinda annoying to limit our options for the last slot because of a current suspect that has many chances to be banned.
    I'm not an augurer, but it would be really unfortunate, after going through so long a process, to have a team not adapted to the metagame or rather adapted to a metagame that is about to shift deeply.
    Just saying, we shouldn't split hairs on something like that and not close any window for this matter.
    We could make two versions of the team also.. but to be honest I want to try this team, and I'd rather make its life expectancy longer than a week given the time it took to be born.
  13. Superpowerdude

    Superpowerdude A sunflower holds its head up high!
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    Remedy after the team has been made the next stage is to playtest the team and make minor tweaks to it, if the metagame has changed we can tweak the team accordingly in the playtesting stage :)
  14. Harsha

    Harsha Rest In Beats
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    Ok some people were suggesting some weird things, so forgive me if I ignore something or change up your sets a little. It's probably on purpose though, so you don't need to tell me I made a mistake.

    Quiver Dance Volcarona
    Fight Gem Breloom
    Choice Scarf Jirachi
    Choice Scarf Terrakion
    Choice Scarf Rotom-W
    Curse Ferrothorn
    Choice Scarf Landorus
    Choice Scarf Thundurus-T
    Offensive Yanmega
    Choice Scarf Celebi


    These are your choices for nominations, voting will stay open for a few days before the team is completed! You have three choices like always.

    To address some things that people are saying, I'm not sure why people are saying Bug Buzz Rock Polish Genesect is never used. I always run my Rock Polish Genesect with Bug Buzz because it murders a lot of teams and provides STAB. We need to apply adequate pressure, otherwise our team can face a sweep at the hands of Genesect.

    As far as metagame concerns go, considering we do not have Genesect on our team, our team shouldn't be affected too much. I think this holds especially true because if Genesect goes, this actually eliminates a threat to us. If it stays, no harm done, as we built this team with Genesect's presence in mind.

    Anyways, get voting!
  15. King

    King

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    Quiver dance volcarona beats rp gene anyday unless its hp rock. That's my vote.
  16. peng

    peng

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    Scarf Terrakion
  17. emirinho

    emirinho

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    Scarf Rotom-W
    Scarf Thundurus-T
  18. Crackstar

    Crackstar

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    Fight Gem Breloom
  19. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn
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  20. TGMD

    TGMD +Biosci: you both gave me crabs
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    Choice Scarf Terrakion
  21. Allen Blaze

    Allen Blaze

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    Scarf Jirachi
    Scarf Terrakion
  22. Superpowerdude

    Superpowerdude A sunflower holds its head up high!
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  23. DarkBlazeR

    DarkBlazeR

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    Choice Scarf Terrakion
  24. Reymedy

    Reymedy The Black Sun.
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    Curse Ferrothorn
    Rotom-W (but it's lame)

    I don't want to have a team crushed by a random spamming of Hpumps ._.
  25. ClubbingSealCub

    ClubbingSealCub

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