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OU CCAT - Mark IV

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by Vertex, Jun 18, 2013.

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  1. lokt

    lokt

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    A roserade nomination would work well and setting up toxic spikes would be much easier then with forretress. I'm thinking that dugtrio would work really well now. Dugtrio can take out t-tar, jirachi, heatran, and terrakion to help d-nite sweep. Dugtrio also allows us to keep toxic spikes up more easily due to trapping tentacruel and weakened starmie.
  2. moonbase

    moonbase

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    Sub mono d nite. Hmmmmm

    It looks like if we are going to make a team, it has to be stall or semi stall with the pokemon the community choose (no mandibuzz ;_;) I think the best weather for this behemoth is rain, because d nite is naturally known to work well there, and the pokemon that we are going to use to set up hazards, spin, ect more often then not get a pretty significant rain boost. For example tenta, ferro core.

    I have to point out that this will probably be the ONLY[/B set up sweeper, so I recommend that people shouldn't post anything like a d dance gyarados because d nite is most likely going to be our only sweeper.
  3. Princess Bubblegum

    Princess Bubblegum

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    Dragonite would work nice for 'semi-stall' as its a solid check to most Venusaur and Breloom, barring you sleep fodder something or course. I like the Forretress suggestion, but not Toxic Spikes, as they are poo in the current meta IMO. For a partner I am contemplating nominating Jirachi, or some other Pokemon that needs Venusaur or Breloom to be dealt with by a different Pokemon, I will update later on my nomination.
  4. HUARGH

    HUARGH

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    I've been trying a few things and this seems to work pretty well (keep in mind I made this team in less than a few minutes and only played 3 battles):

    Show Hide
    Jellicent @ Leftovers
    Trait: Water Absorb
    EVs: 248 HP / 184 SAtk / 8 Spd
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Scald
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Taunt
    - Recover

    Politoed @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 SAtk / 8 Spd
    Modest Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Ice Beam
    - Focus Blast
    - Hydro Pump
    - Hypnosis

    Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
    Trait: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SDef
    Sassy Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Spikes
    - Gyro Ball
    - Power Whip
    - Thunder Wave

    Landorus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 252 HP / 164 Def / 92 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - U-turn
    - Earthquake
    - Stealth Rock
    - Stone Edge

    Dragonite @ Leftovers
    Trait: Multiscale
    EVs: 252 HP / 24 Def / 16 SDef / 216 Spd
    Careful Nature
    - Dragon Claw
    - Substitute
    - Roost
    - Dragon Dance

    Tentacruel @ Black Sludge
    Trait: Rain Dish
    EVs: 252 HP / 20 Spd / 236 Def
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Scald
    - Toxic Spikes
    - Rapid Spin
    - Toxic


    Although something such as Heal Bell would be very welcome. Maybe Celebi would be a nice candidate, although it doesn't have a particular synergy with Dragonite. I'm still quite torn on what to nominate. Forretress and Ferro seem really nice.
  5. -Sparkbeat-

    -Sparkbeat-

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    I feel that this next entry should focus more on removing or weakening Dragonite's counters and checks rather than make good synergy. The Pokemon that immediately come to mind are Steels, Phazers like Hippowdon, Skarmory, and Heatran, Landorus-T who can Intimidate us on the switch, break our subs, and can shrug off a dragon claw rather easily, and revenge killers such as Mamoswine, Scizor, and Weavile. This entry should also make opportunities for Dragonite to set up, such as locking a choice user into a not very effective move. So, here's my entry:

    [​IMG]
    Conkeldurr @ Life Orb
    Trait: Sheer Force
    EVs: 120 HP / 252 Atk / 136 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - Drain Punch
    - Ice Punch
    - ThunderPunch
    - Mach Punch

    Props for this set go to Halcyon of Light I believe. While this guy may share little defensive synergy with Dragonite, it can wear down Nite's counters very effectively, as well as force many switches just like Nite, which will make hazards a must have for this team. He also fits the playstyle of Bulky Offense well, which although we decided not to choose one, I feel would work best for Nite (With Balance as a close second). It hits Ferrothorn, Heatran, and Scizor hard with Drain Punch and the Life Orb boost and recovery make it a very spammable move. It can hit Bulky Waters and Skarmory hard with Thunderpunch, and Ice Punch nails Landorus-T, Gliscor, and opposing Dragons. Mach Punch gives the team a form of priority, and allows him to finish off faster threats. The only common steel he struggles against is Jirachi, but it will be dented by a Drain Punch and Forretress is just set-up fodder for Nite, or can be beaten by Drain Punch spam. Another plus is that many teams choose to deal with Conkeldurr with scarfers that outspeed it, like Keldeo, so if they choose to Hydro Pump then Nite gets an easy Sub/DD off (I know this isn't always the case but it seems to happen a lot). I also can just rip apart many of the tier's popular stall cores.
  6. Usatoday

    Usatoday

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    [​IMG]
    Keldeo @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
    Timid Nature
    - Secret Sword
    - Hydro Pump / Surf
    - Hidden Power (Bug/Ice)
    - Taunt

    What do you feel this pokemon adds to the team?
    We all know how good keldeo in the current metagame, and we know it is single handedly one of the biggest threats. Keldeo itself will bring to the table a way to help deal with pokemon such as landorus therian, ferrothorn, and heatran who dragonite hates to face. This keldeo is one that is unique though taunt keldeo is an incredibly underused and I don't know why. Secret sword obviously is a stab move that can hurt the likes of ferrothorn and do some damage to help aid a dragonite sweep later. The choice of the water stab should be your own if you value power that can turn a 2 hit ko with surf into and ohko then use hydro pump, however one could also choose a more reliable stab move in the form of surf. Hidden power is again of choice hidden power ice helps rid the field of salamence, and dragonite. However hidden power bug will hit celebi extremely hard and aid landorus theiran. Finally taunt is there to shut down pokemon like ferrothorn, blissey, skarmory, terrakion, and tyranitar.

    What do you feel the item does?
    It provides an insurance policy that allows you to switch into a wall and evade status one time.

    What do you feel the EV spread achieves?
    Its just the standard max max to maximize efficiency.
  7. The Unlucky one

    The Unlucky one

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    Alright so let's summarize what we want here.

    1. Something that beats most steels (looking at Skarmory the most here, along with HP Ice Forretress, Ferrothorn and most steels in general. It would be preferable to either lure in, or have something so powerful that they turn into liabilities.

    2. Pressure hazard setters, and get SR off the field somewhat reliably, but it isn't a must-have spinner situation as Dragonite's Roost allows him to stay alive fairly decently. Still, the multiscale helps. Again the main ways of dealing with this is either a powerful spinner (LO Starmie) or a mon that beats most hazard setters (CB Victini is a notable one, but it needs sun, which I actually don't mind doing. If anyone wants to nominate that thing, that would be fun, as Lilligant/Venu also beats Hippo)

    3. Lure weak attacks stuff like Surfs, Pursuits etc. to let Dragonite get good setup fodder.

    With that I wanna introduce a set I've been loving with a Pokemon I never thought would be nice; Espeon

    [​IMG]
    Espeon @ Life Orb
    Trait: Magic Bounce
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
    Timid Nature
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Grass Knot
    - Psyshock
    - Baton Pass

    Alright so this thing. Espeon is pretty nice at doing damage to hazard setters, revenge killing non scarfed Keldeo, while luring Tyranitar and Scizor.(something that will be useful as Scizor resist dragon, and it gets rid of a weather starter if we decide to use weather, which is likely)It also beats most of those hazard setters like Gyro Ball Ferro/Forry, Skarm and Hippowdon, it even does well vs Sashed Terrakion, at least pressuring it to not be able to setup the layer of SR it's supposed to. Notice a pattern here? Those mons I mentioned as Hazard setters are also the main checks to SubDD Dragonite. It can also reflect back random Tspikes from Tentacruel (if the player somehow does that) and kill it off with a Psyshock.

    Yeah so that's what I got, Tspikes sounds really promising from Dice though
  8. Joeyboy

    Joeyboy Check out my Youtube channel! JoeyboyGames!
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    It should be noted that SubDD Dragonite doesn't really mind these threats. Skarm can't do anything to last mon Dragonite, besides just brave birding or roost stall(which will end in a crit or pp stalled, +6 Dragon Claw is a clean 3hko on the bulkiest of skarms); Ferrothorn needs to be running Gyro Ball + Leech Seed or Thunder Wave to hope to win, and will lose if it predicts wrong and wastes the easily stalled gyro ball PP. And Hidden Power Ice Forretress isn't bad either:

    0 SpA Forretress Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 20+ SpD Dragonite on a critical hit: 244-288 (63.21 - 74.61%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (without Multiscale)

    While Dragonite doesn't really like these guys, they're not end of sweep material if you play you're cards right.
  9. George Eliot

    George Eliot

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    I think the critical issue here is how we want to get around Dragonite's counters (which are numerous for this set). The two main options are status (Toxic / Burn lets Drag SubRoost stall, paralysis lets you fish for free Sub's), or powerful offense which prevents the opponent from keeping their Dragonite counter healthy.

    Personally I'd prefer to go the paralysis route, since almost nothing can actually stop SubDDNite while paralysed, and additionally, most of the things which counter it also happen to be common switch-ins for efficient paralysis spreaders like Jirachi (Landorus-T, Ferrothorn, HP Ice Heatran, Scizor, etc). Jirachi also synergises really nicely with Dragonite, being the #1 counter to the faster special Dragons which force Nite out, and being able to WishPass to re-activate MultiScale.

    Entry

    Most Jirachi sets would work well of course. If we go for the Rain route, giving us a reliable spinner in Tentacruel and eliminating Hail and Sand to make Nite's job easier, than CMRachi would be perfect.
  10. Drako

    Drako

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    I'm totally with The Unlucky One and I think Sun would be amazing for this set because it checks lots of threats for that particular playstyle and a Sun team with my following submission removes Dnite's checks and counters pretty neatly:

    [​IMG]

    Victini @ Choice Band
    Trait: Victory Star
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - U-turn
    - V-create
    - Bolt Strike
    - Sleep Talk

    Standard Choice-Band Victini. I usually run sleep talk on the last slot cause it makes great sleep fodder and in sun it doesn't really need anything other than V-Create anyway.
    Victini smashes through all the Hazards setters and puts endless pressure on the opponent's team.
    As a next pick I'd love to see support Lilligant with its mad powerful Leaf Storm.
    Also we'd need sth. for Heatran if we decide to go for sun.
  11. Ashley11

    Ashley11

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    I really like your Victini idea because it can switch into most steel types that will hinder dragonite and take them out, while still hitting everything like a truck. I agree if we do choose Victini we might need sun support to use it to its fullest. Honestly I feel this team should be a balanced team and have a offensive core with dragonite and some other stuff(Victini).
  12. HUARGH

    HUARGH

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    Sleep talk should be u-turn, like this you can u-turn into Dugtrio or something if they swap in a flash fire pokemon. I can't read.
  13. Explorer

    Explorer

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    Bulky Offense

    Also, are we allowed to vote for dual-weather?
  14. whitney

    whitney

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    What's even happening right now? Thread needs more direction - from what I can tell we're supposed to be submitting Pokémon right now.

    Anyway I like Victini+sun as support...biggest problem is massively compounding the Stealth Rock weakness, and it really limits our teambuilding options. George's paralysis-centric nomination makes sense too.
  15. HUARGH

    HUARGH

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    After much consideration I have decided that we should go for a steel type and I think this steel type should be Magnezone, therefor this will be my entry.

    [​IMG]
    Magnezone @ Leftovers
    Trait: Magnet Pull
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
    Timid Nature / Modest Nature
    - Substitute / Volt Switch
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Reflect / Volt Switch

    - it resists dragon, ice and rock
    - it traps many common steel types bar Heatran (you can theoretically trap him but then prepare for rape), the only type to resist Dragonite's mono attack
    - it can set up reflect (to make Dragonite's life even easier) and/or volt switch to keep offensive momentum

    Timid gives us 240 speed, enough to outrun max speed Skarmory/Breloom/Ludicolo and some other annoying pokemon.
  16. Homeslice

    Homeslice

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    So many good submissions that could all be voted for later. Great job everyone. For now, I'll put my support behind Magnezone, because he's an almost essential member we need to get out of the way now.

    I can't really tell if we're still picking a weather/playstyle, but I'm just saying the only weather that Dragonite would probably enjoy is Sandstorm. That set relies on residual damage and Sandstorm is way more reliable than Hail. And I trust you all enough to not turn this into another Keldeo/Tyranitar/Landorus team.

    I figure I should post how I think this team should lay out just to give some people general direction:

    - Dragonite
    - Steel Remover (Magnezone)
    - Steel Remover (Physically Based, i.e. Terrakion/Volcarona/Infernape)
    - Spinner (Starmie probably)
    - Hazard Setter
    - Glue (More hazards or cover up general weaknesses, something to stop Mamoswine/Weavile would be nice)
  17. dadoux

    dadoux

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    I don't really like using Magnezone, besides trapping Skarmory, that's all, Forretress can easily volt switch on him, Ferrothorn can leech seed him under the rain no matter what, Scizor can U-turn / Superpower him on the switch or just tank tbolt / hp fire if he's under the rain ( and some heavy SpDbulky spread can tank hp fire without rain, the occa berry set is rare but tricky too ) and he's useless besides trapping them.

    That's not really cool to have a "deadweight" on the team, and a pokemon who can add for the team overall AND kill steels is better, maybe a luring pokemon like Mixrachi w/ tbolt ? It can also lure Garchomp who can RK Nite pretty damn easily with hp ice
  18. peng

    peng

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    Not to mention you should actually be setting up last mon Dragonite vs Skarmory, Ferrothorn, SDef Jirachi, Forretress etc. Ice Fang Hippowdon, Perish Song and Offense are much bigger threats for SubDD Dragonite than steel-types are.

    I really like SubDDNite as a win condition on very hazard-centric balanced teams to give you an easy out against opposing stall (which is a messy game otherwise) and against Sun (which is generally a poor match-up). Baton Pass Celebi and Volt Switch Forretress are probably excellent picks here because they set the foundation for solid defensive cores, as well as baiting in stuff like Volcarona to help Dragonite find set-up opportunities vs offense.
  19. Vertex

    Vertex

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    Okay, I am going to direct this thread to a different route, since people are getting confused.

    We are nominating a Pokemon now. It must do well with the team and bring something that the team appreciates. An example, is HUARGH's Magnezone which brings a steel-type, steel-type defeater, and a nice pivot too. We are not choosing playstyles like the CCAT format, change in plans.

    EDIT: Voting starts tommorow.
  20. HUARGH

    HUARGH

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    Substitute is for Ferrothorn. Although it is true that Forretress can volt switch on him, it greatly polarizes Forretress' options. You can then take advantage of this and switch in something that is immune to electric. Additionally, Forretress predicting wrong = insta-depop, whereas Forretress predicting right only allows him to switch in a pokemon that favors being up against Magnezone. The only real problem here could be a volt switch into Dugtrio and this is very uncommon.
  21. Lulzington

    Lulzington

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    I've used this Dragonite set quite a lot in the past and something which I think is interesting, at least enough so to warrant a mention, is Xatu:

    [​IMG]
    Xatu @ Leftovers
    Trait: Magic Bounce
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Thunder Wave
    - Heat Wave
    - Roost
    - U-turn/ HP Ice

    In my opinion it's game's best switch in to Skarmory, Ferrothorn and co. as it removes half of their toolbox (hazards/ Leech Seed/ status), takes insignificant damage from the likes of Brave Bird and Gyro Ball, and can Heat Wave them to death or T-Wave something. Scizor is another irritant for Dnite, and Xatu isn't a bad response to that either as it can take LO Scizor's +2 Bullet Punch before OHKOing with Heat Wave. Whilst not too much of an issue for Dnite, it demolishes Breloom because of its Spore immunity and resistances which is always nice to have. Also you get style points from stuff like Bounce-Taunting Gliscor and Bounce-Roaring Phazers.

    I think the T-wave U-turn combo is especially useful in helping Dragonite. The amount of things Dragonite can set up on is dramatically larger when it can grab a free turn to Roost or whatever 1/4 of the time and Xatu is a good Pokemon to enable that. U-turn is nice for keeping momentum after paralyzing whatever they switch in, or you can just run HP ice to give Xatu a means of countering Gliscor.

    It does of course share a few weaknesses with Dragonite, which is why I run it with Jirachi (and sometimes a spinner) to take Ice/ Rock attacks and add to the general para spreading with Body Slam. I just want to reiterate that I think paralysis as opposed to poison is the way to go with this team, because it makes Dnite's life immeasurably easier and is a lot more effective in the current offense-spam metagame.
  22. ginganinja

    ginganinja Dating Haunter
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    Quick Points (since some people are still confused)

    We are not choosing a weather now. You can discuss a favourable weather you personally like in your pokemon submission if you wish, this does not mean we vote on it.

    Secondly looking at Dragonite as a pokemon we need a few things if we want to support it.

    1. I would argue we need a spinner. Having MS active is fairly important to dragonite so aiming for a spinner should be key.
    2. We need something to eliminate certain phazers, like Skarmory and Hippowdon. Technically, Dragonite beats these if it is last pokemon, but this will not always be the case (they can phaze around and then bring in something really late that Dragonite cannot set up on ) but id argue beating Sand Balance / Stall teams is p important, as well as having a way to decrease Skarmorys effectiveness on the team. Sorta goes with 1. since a spinner works p well if they lack a spinblocker.
    3. Ideally, pokemon that can lure in shit that Dragonite sets up on, so that it is more of a threat, and that members are both supporting dragonite, and getting supported BY dragonite.

    Just think that above needs to be quickly summarized and noted.
  23. vyomov

    vyomov

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    OK so this is my nomination:
    Kabutops@Life Orb
    Ability: Weak Armor
    EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Rapid Spin
    - Stone Edge
    - Low Kick
    - Aqua Jet
    The idea of the set is simple: lure in mons like Celebi and Venusaur, switch for D-nite and then proceed to set up and sweep.
    Kabutops also takes care of mons like Salamence with SE and Terrakion with Low Kick
  24. Lulzington

    Lulzington

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    I'm not sure how Kabutops takes care of 'Mence and Terrakion, when the former has a good chance to OHKO with Earthquake after rocks, and the latter can guarantee a KO with Close Combat? Both also outspeed it. The only way you're going to eliminate them is by hitting them with the correct move on the switch, and I don't think it's very likely that would happen as who is going to be switching in Pokemon to Kabutops that are weak to its STABs?

    After playing 20 games with it today on a revamped version one of my old teams, I can say that the biggest problems for this Dragonite are the likes of Mamoswine and Cloyster more than anything else. You can set up on steels like Ferrothron and Forry by stalling out Gyro Ball, but you can't even KO Cloyster at +2 and you then proceed to get destroyed by Icicle Spear. Also, para support (in my team provided by Jirachi's Body Slam, Rotom-W's Discharge and Xatu's T-Wave) was huge. A lot of my wins came when people relying on offensive Pokemon to respond to Dragonite (like Terrakion and Lando-T) found themselves getting set up on when those Pokemon were paralyzed. Of my losses, one was from Hippowdown having its way with my team after I lost Rotom, one was from being caught off guard by a Scarfed Cloyster and the other was standard hax nonsense.

    Tl;dr, Steels bar Skarm aren't a big issue but Phazing and Cloyster are. Also para support is best support.
  25. Homeslice

    Homeslice

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    Okay, since we can't decide on Steel or Ice, why not both?

    Terrakion @ Choice Band
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 4 HP/ 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge
    - X-Scissor
    - Sacred Sword (Or Rock Slide if anyone really wants to argue the filler)

    CB Terrakion is the premier wall-breaker in OU. But you probably know that already. Besides that, Terrakion gives us the powerhouse we need to take down Steel and Ice types without an issue. The only thing we have to fear is Mamoswine- but it's horribly slow, and I'm more then confident a decent player could realize all they have to do is switch into the Ice moves aimed at Dragonite. Terrakion also can deal huge amounts of damage to phazers pretty reliably, with even Physically Defensive Hippodown struggling to do anything other than click Slack Off. Terrakion and Dragonite also have generally good synergy, wuth Terrakion resisting Rock and Ice and Dragonite being immune to Ground and resisting Fighting.
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