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OU CCAT: Nidoking Edition

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by Pocket, Nov 4, 2011.

  1. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Dec 22, 2004
    OU CCAT RMT: The Sheer Force of Nidoking!

    The team thus far:
    Nidoking @ Life Orb
    Trait: Sheer Force
    EV's: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Earth Power
    - Thunderbolt
    - Ice Beam
    - Fire Blast

    Breloom @ Toxic Orb
    Trait: Poison Heal
    EVs: 236 HP / 212 SpD / 60 Spe
    Careful Nature
    - Drain Punch
    - Bulk Up
    - Spore
    - Seed Bomb

    Gyarados @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SDef
    Impish nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Waterfall
    - Dragon Tail
    - Thunder Wave
    - Taunt

    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 240 SpD / 16 Spe
    Careful Nature (+SpD, -SpA)
    - Iron Head
    - Body Slam
    - Wish
    - Stealth Rock

    Latias @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 228 Def / 28 Spe
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Calm Mind
    - Reflect
    - Recover

    Terrakion @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature (+Spe, -SpA)
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge
    - X-Scissor
    - Earthquake

    Hi, all. This is user: Zurich reporting for duty! Following what's been done in the RU, LC, and Uber DST sections, I think it's time that OU has its own CCAT! The CCAT, or Community Create - a - Team, is where the general populace of (in this case) OU will come together to make a competitive team, which gets a lot more players involved than going to the RMT section and looking there.​

    Please stay on topic - (once we get to the point where we have chosen a Pokemon, don't change the topic, and vice versa)

    The process will go as such (big thanks to Heysup, c/p'd and changed from Crux's OP):​

    That said, let's get this project on the road! I'll be looking forward to the results.​
  2. blarajan

    blarajan Rest in Bling
    is a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a defending SPL Champion
    VGC Co-Leader

    Aug 29, 2010
    The obvious answer is Hail. Niggasnow needs some love.
  3. Eggbert


    Oct 30, 2009
    I got the reminder from the sprite on the OP, but Conkeldurr is a great mon to build a team around. With t-wave support it is very difficult to beat and it can set up so so easily on common mons like Ttar, Ferro, ect. It fares well against paralyzed offensive teams (especially physical dual screen teams), and stall alike. Even impish quag takes around 45% from a guts drain punch, meaning it won't really stop you if you get purposely burned. Conk also checks things like Hydreigon and Terrakion (and the late Excadrill) if needed. It's a sweeper than is effective but can also serve as a useful counter to things and hold its weight. Something like Terrakion can't counter Ferrothorn, it just sweeps some of the time lategame. Conk is all around useful.
  4. skitz0phrenic


    Feb 23, 2011
    I'd like some Salamence love. Let's knock Dnite down a peg.
  5. New World Order

    New World Order Licks Toads
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Jul 15, 2009
    Sounds cool, I think with the way OU is structured, we need to determine a playstyle before proceeding with picking Pokemon. Unlike the lower tiers, where its just offense, stall, and balance, OU has a plethora of viable playstyles ranging from Sun Heavy Offense to Rain Stall. After picking a playstyle, we should then proceed with voting for a "team Ace" so to speak and build around it to fulfill the playstyle.

    so poll is next year? I think you meant Nov 14 lol.
  6. NatGeo

    NatGeo ¡Órale!
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Sep 4, 2010
    oops thanks for catching that! It won't be going up until i have a date set up and things have been decided just fyi lol
  7. sax king

    sax king

    Mar 6, 2010
    Naw naw naw. Conkeldurr and Salamence are not forgotten wonders, they're still everywhere. I'm thinking something like DDance or Bulk Up Scrafty (preferably DDance because it's just not seen as often) or like something really wild and crazy, like SD Ferrothorn.
  8. Mr.Pooh31


    Jan 6, 2011
    It would be really cool to do a Hail team since its almost never seen in OU now a days. Stall or a Blizzspam team would actually be really fun to make successful.
    Another idea I was thinking of would be making the ultimate anti weather team. Creating a team that could counter Hail,Sun,Rain and Sand wouldnt be easy but it has lots of potential.
  9. Aleva


    Aug 29, 2010
    I'd like to see Abomasnow get some love. Its so good
  10. DetroitLolcat

    DetroitLolcat Maize and Blue Badge Set! :)
    is a Forum Moderatoris a CAP Contributor

    Apr 11, 2010
    CB Ferrothorn!
  11. Seth Vilo

    Seth Vilo

    Mar 6, 2009
    Well I was rather bored so I skimmed through the B/W Dex and started looking for things that I thought might be underrated or forgotten. If I was only supposed to pick one, then don't open the hide tags so I don't bias you. I may be biased on some because they might be "cooler" to me just because of my favorite-Pomeon-list and such. XD

    Warning! Some are harder to use in OU than others... (open)
    -Sharpedo - Maybe not as underrated as it could be, but still not very seen and can hurt quite badly, as seen on Agamemmnon's (spelling...?) RMT somewhat recently.
    -Shaymin - This poor little hedgehog is so cool, but Ferrothorn-o-ration has made everyone forget this little guy. Shaymin can co-op with other things on your team (hi Volcarona! Lemme help you with that Heatran!), absorb Electric and Water moves, and NOT die from Pursuit/weaker U-turns. Major cool points.
    -Zoroark- Is it hard to use? Yes. Does Team Preview hurt its usability? Yup. Can it really mess with your opponent if played right? You betcha. There's the appeal.
    -Nidoking - Question not the might of the 4-foot tall king. Another not-expected threat in the OU environment with its excellent coverage and awesome utility with immunity to Electric and Toxic, and absorbing Toxic Spikes for your walls/pivots/grounded sweepers. Not to mention it, like Shaymin, is just really cool.
    -Aggron - Last generation when it got Head Smash to combine with Rock Head, Aggron was major "cool" and "commendable" points to those who could use him well enough. The Fighting abundance now won't help, but if we can unleash that deadly Head Smash it'd be a sight to see.
    -Archeops - Why not let this bird live up to the hype we gave it before we knew what its ability was? All I have to say here.
    -Sableye - Yeah, it's on a hype spike right now, I'm aware. And rather guilty of cranking up its usage numbers myself; I think half its usage this month is from me... But why not make people not just say "Sableye sucks" by default? Personal favoritism for my lil ghosty...
    -Eelektross - Poooor sad forgotten Electric eel... But with Thundurus gone, he has a slightly bigger niche to fill on a team as an Electric STAB.

    -Cloyster - I'm aware this is still on OU, but barely. And why? It can murder pretty much everything after a Shell Smash, including the great wall Ferrothorn. If I can only put in one vote, this is it. You know that feeling of fear you get every now and then deep in your gut and very soul? That's what you get when you let one of these set up in front of you and it proceeds to go to town with your team, often dying from its own Life Orb recoil because you can't touch it. And even if you can, will it do enough? Even at -1, its base 180 Defense is insane and defends from all non-Vacuum Wave priority moves, so it'll eat that Mach Punch and kill your face. It does require a good bit of support, but with the metagame being what it is with Prankster Thunder Wave Thundurus and hyper-fast Excadrill gone, as well as Dragonite and Hyper Offensive teams one the rise, both of which aren't able to well defend from Cloyster, this may be our clam's time to truly shine and destroy the world.

    Those are my thoughts. If I can only nominate one, see the last one on the list.
  12. waterwarrior


    Oct 20, 2010
    I'm going to suggest a different set for Conkledurr that has been a boss since the beginnings of gen 5: 4 attacks *prepares anti-flame shields*

    Conkledurr@ Flame Orb
    Ability: take a guess
    252 HP/ 252 Atk/ 4 Sp. Def
    -Drain Punch
    -Mach Punch
    -Stone Edge

    What's the retarded clown's biggest problem? Probably 4MSS. This set gets rid of that by not using BU, missing out on Defense boosts while adding crucial coverage. The standard Durr either gets rid of one of the two punches, leaving it without recovery or priority, or they pass on Stone Edge, giving Flying types a free switch. Flame Orb is a rarity nowadays, but would you rather it asleep? No, you don't. The set is also supposed to have staying power, like most Durrs, so Toxic Orb is not recommended. It's a different way to go from the standard Durr, and definitely qualifies as a forgotten wonder.
  13. Birkal

    Birkal We have the technology.
    is a member of the Site Staffis an Artistis a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a CAP Contributoris a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
    CAP Head Mod

    Oct 12, 2010
    I'd specifically love to see a team that struggles with weather, so they use Abomasnow as an offensive Pokemon that can keep the opponent on their toes. With a Choice Band or Life Orb, it has a great enough physical movepool to hit all other weather starters for super effective damage. This is a role that methinks Abomasnow could play really well, but he seems to almost always be used on a Hail team or not at all.

    On another note, one of the least loved sets of Dragonite is the Parashuffler set. With the loss of Excadrill and Thundurus (and the downfall of Gliscor), this thing can cause a headache to so many teams. As we all know, Dragonite is nearly impossible to OHKO at maximum health thanks to Multiscale, and this set abuses that directly. If we picked Parashufflin' Dragonite, we could then model a team that fights well against paralyzed teams, which means tons of variety for us! Perhaps Conkeldurr or Head Smash Rampardos could join his posse. It's a greatly effective set that could really use some love AND makes a fantastic team player. The Special Defense EVs allow it to not get plowed over by random HP Ice / Ice Beam, but some could easily be distributed to Defense.

    Dragonite @ Leftovers
    Nature: Careful
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
    - Substitute
    - Roost
    - Thunder Wave
    - Dragon Tail
  14. Byrn Dragonstone

    Byrn Dragonstone

    Jul 6, 2010
    We should use Snorlax. Let the king join the fray one more time. Really one of those forgotten pokemon that people tend to just skim over just because it isn't on the OU list. Curselax still destroys late game, and Bandlax puts dents in everything. Snorlax really should be at least looked at.
  15. rtc3


    Oct 1, 2006
    I agree with this. Mence has been in OU all this time but he hasn't really been given a chance to shine in 5th gen. For the most part he's been overshadowed by other more prominent threats. Bulkymence and Specsmence are outclassed by Nite and Latios though, so if mence is chosen I think either mixed or DD are the best sets to go with. One set I haven't seen though would be something like:

    Salamence @ lefties
    -dragon claw
    -roost/fire blast/etc
  16. NatGeo

    NatGeo ¡Órale!
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Sep 4, 2010
    just saying pocket's post was great, please format any of your posts something close to it so its a) easy to read and b) persuasive!

    thanks for all the feedback so far.
  17. Berserker Lord

    Berserker Lord unreliable analysis writer.

    Dec 18, 2009
    I would greatly support Pockets proposel of Mteagross, but I would make a few changes. I would definitley change Earthquake for Bullet Punch just because it offers lots of utility for revenging killing, specifcally Terrakion. I also would want the Speed investment to be changed to 60 Speed EVs at the minimum to outspeed specially defensive Heatran. Now, I know this seems stupid because Metagross is also using Hammer Arm, but having that little advantage over Heatran when you havn't used Hammer Arm is indespinsable.
  18. Myzozoa

    Myzozoa Don't keep calm, create chaos
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Champion

    Jan 31, 2009
    I would like to nominate Calm Mind Latias:

    252 HP/252 Speed/4 Special Attack
    Dragon Pulse
    Calm Mind

    Latias is a check to many things, and in the current metagame she has many opportunities to set-up on pokemon like Politoed, Tentacruel, some forms of Ferrothorn, and many other pokemon that have been popularized by weather wars. Latias is very easy to support as she requires two things to have a successful sweep: the breakdown of steels (such as scizor) and Toxic Spikes, which will help her break common counters such as Blissy and to a certain extent Tyranitar. She has monster special defense and this set will use substitute to ease prediction and help her escape from pokemon like scizor, while also preventing the possibility of her getting critted or statused while setting up.
  19. Woodchuck

    Woodchuck actual cannibal
    is a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnus

    May 25, 2010
    I would like to nominate Leech Seed + Protect Shaymin:

    name: Leech Seed

    move 1: Leech Seed
    move 2: Protect
    move 3: Seed Flare
    move 4: Hidden Power Ice/Fire/Earth Power
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Natural Cure
    nature: Modest
    evs: 252 HP / 76 SpA / 180 Spe

    Shaymin is an extremely overlooked threat in this meta, and while it doesn't really have the capability to sweep through teams, it can be an excellent supporter and part of a core.
    I don't think we've really seen a definitive team with Shaymin on it this gen, so this will bring something fresh to the table and give the team a unique flavor.
    It also pairs well with a lot of pokes (namely things that like to switch into Dragon or Fire types, depending on the fourth move) so it'll give us flexibility over the course of the project as well.

    And yes I have tested Shaymin and it works really well without crippling misses e.e
  20. NoJohns


    Sep 11, 2010
    Supporting Metaboss, though I don't think Agiligross is the way to go. I used one with Meteor Mash/Earthquake/Pursuit/Bullet Punch, Adamant 128HP/252ATK/128SDEF (given those EV's are pretty arbitrary) and LO with great effect. Really underrated in this meta.
  21. ToF

    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis the Smogon Tour Season 13 Champion

    Sep 30, 2007
    I think Agiligross got enough love in OU last gen. If I had to nominate something, I would nominate Curse Ferrothorn. As stupid as it sounds, it's actually really good with the right team support. After a few Curses, it's damn hard to get rid of lol. If you're looking for really unorthodox, Curse Ferrothorn is your best bet :)
  22. Birkal

    Birkal We have the technology.
    is a member of the Site Staffis an Artistis a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a CAP Contributoris a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
    CAP Head Mod

    Oct 12, 2010
    Something that this thread seems to be lacking in comparison to other CCAPs is continual discussion about the sets people are posting. So while I highly encourage users to keep on posting sets, I'm just going to provide some of my initial thoughts on the suggestions and see if I can help get the discussion ball rolling!

    Note: Any suggestions that I make are up to reinterpretation. EVs, natures, and moves can all be easily swapped in and out.

    As I posted earlier, Abomasnow is a great Pokemon that really isn't getting a lot of love. It has the ability to severely dent all other weather starters AND fire off Base 120 Dual STABs. Hail Stall could be another route that we take, but I'd prefer focus on a more offensive set. While I absolutely love Choice Band sets (and Life Orb to a degree), I think I'd personally recommend a Choice Scarf with the following set:

    Abomasnow @ Choice Scarf
    Nature: Hasty (+Spe / -Def)
    EVs: 140 Atk / 128 SpA / 240 Spe
    - Blizzard
    - Wood Hammer
    - Earthquake
    - Hidden Power [Fire]

    These EVs allow it to outspeed Base 111 Speed Pokemon (Tornadus), which is quite impressive. Choice Scarf allows Abomasnow to abuse both ends of the spectrum; Blizzard and Wood Hammer hit for some impressive damage. Ninetales absolutely hates taking Earthquake on the switch and can usually be 2HKO'd by it since it will likely stay in against Abomasnow (watch out for Loontales). Abomasnow is a great threat that can really hit hard in today's metagame when left to its own devices. I'd be in support of an Abomasnow set!

    While Sharpedo is a great asset in today's metagame, its weakness to priority and Jolteon set it back. Furthermore, Politoed is almost required, which would limit out teammate pool considerably. Zoroark would be interesting to have discussion on which Pokemon its going to attempt to pass off as its Illusion, so I wouldn't be opposed to this outcome. Nidoking is an awesome Pokemon but I often don't see it as the center-piece of a team. Its sets (to me) are rather predictable; however, the ability to pick up T-Spikes is fun! Do you have any ideas on how Nidoking could potentially be a set-up sweeper? Its immunity to both Toxic and Thunder Wave could make things interesting. Aggron is a straight up baller that would be pretty difficult to build a team around. But if we could pull it off... Rock Head-based Head Smash is one of the coolest deals out there. Archeops frightens me because it needs LOTS of support (Wish / Heal Bell / Rapid Spin) to work, and in my opinion, the payback is relatively low in comparison to the support required. Sableye is in the same boat as Nidoking, in my opinion. A great support Pokemon that I wouldn't necessarily center a team around. Eelektross is pretty darn weak, in my opinion, but maybe my experiences with it have just been lackluster. If I saw a great set with some stats I might be swayed!

    Now Cloyster I could definitely see working with. Shell Smash + Skill Link is an absolute monster to deal with in today's metagame. Furthermore, we could try a Utility set (check out some of yee's calcs on how bulky this thing is (yet still OHKO's Dragonite). When given the right support, Cloyster can be an absolute monster. Its standard set would do:

    Cloyster @ White Herb
    Nature: Jolly
    EVs: HP 40 / 252 Atk / 208 Spe
    - Shell Smash
    - Icicle Spear
    - Rock Blast
    - Razor Shell

    While I am in support of Flame Orb Conkeldurr much more so than regular variations, it's still so predictable (specifically the moveset). Almost everyone knows what to expect from Conkeldurr now-a-days. It's only a matter of sending in your physical wall and stopping it/phazing it out. Furthermore, I don't really see how it would work as a "centerpiece" Pokemon. Mienshao strikes me as a more attractive idea than Conkeldurr, and that is saying something. Perhaps if there were some calcs to prove how much better Flamedurr is better than Bulkdurr, I probably wouldn't put my weight behind this set. I just don't see the vision right now.

    Snorlax is a cool guy. I could really see getting into one of its sets in terms of team building. It has a plausible movepool and some crazy-go-nuts stats to work with. He could function well on an offensive team, a trick room team, a sun team... The list goes on! Thick Fat is also a fun ability that is pretty under appreciated in today's metagame. I am personally partial to the OU Curselax set:

    Snorlax @ Leftovers
    Ability: Thick Fat
    Nature: Careful (+SpD / -SpA)
    EVs: 188 HP / 104 Def / 216 SpD
    - Curse
    - Return
    - Fire Punch
    - Earthquake / Crunch

    It's also pretty darn advantageous to not have to run any sort of Speed EVs since it's already too slow to outpace anything of note. This guy could really shine on an bulky offensive team.

    While I like Bandgross much more than its Agility variants, I am still a bit wary about Metagross on the whole. Meteor Mash's accuracy frightens me to this day, while being locked into a Choice Steel attack is not always optimal. Furthermore, there are lots of threats in today's metagame that don't do Metagross any favors, namely Dragonite, Ninetales, Ferrothorn, Jellicent, Sableye, Skarmory, Politoed... the list goes on. And while ThunderPunch might alleviate some of these issues, I question its power on Metagross (maybe some calcs could help clear things up). While Metagross wouldn't be my favorite choice, it has a surprising amount of variety in its movepool and could lead to some pretty great discussion. I would also recommend Trick as an option in the fourth moveslot; it helps against foes like Politoed, Skarmory, Blissey, Chansey, and Latios while giving Metagross the option to utilize its entire movepool. Just a thought!

    I personally think that Salamence is a great Pokemon that is highly underestimated in comparison to Dragonite. What shocks me is that many people play Dragonite so poorly: they don't run Rapid Spin support OR Roost, so I don't see the appeal of Multiscale at all in those cases. But enough of my griping, haha. Salamence is a champion who is a huge threat with only one DD under its belt. If we were going with a set like yours, I would recommend Outrage over Dragon Claw. And if we happened to pick a route that utilizes a Sun-team, we could perhaps use Fire Fang! Salamence also has a huge movepool that could see a lot of love. I would be for a team built around Salamence, sure! One of my favorite sets that I've always thought would be a romping good time to build a team around is its Defensive set. People always seem to forget that Dragon-type is an awesome defensive type that can really put the opponent at odds. This kind of set on a stalling team could be a hoot:

    Salamence @ Leftovers
    Ability: Intimidate
    Nature: Relaxed (+Def / -Spe)
    252 HP / 240 / 16 Spe
    -Protect / Roost
    -Dragon Tail

    This is just one of the MANY possibilities we could run with Salamence. There's so much untapped potential hear that DST could really rip into effectively.

    Latias is an interesting choice. Its diverse movepool and unique typing allow it to fulfill a variety of roles. I would personally rather build a team with Salamence or Dragonite if we were looking for a Dragon-type candidate, but each to his own. I would love to see Roar on that set somewhere, which allows Latias to boost up alongside other threats and then send then away. Right now I guess I'm on the fence about Latias!

    Ferrothorn still frightens the living daylights out of me if we were to use Shaymin. I would personally prefer an attacking set since it gets pretty darn good coverage. That is saying something, since I normally am a huge proponent of any set that involves Leech Seed. I just think that Shaymin as bigger and better things to do than stall around. Whimsicott and Ferrothorn outclass it in that role, in my opinion. I would love to see Shaymin hit the OU seen again thought. It really is a viable threat!

    Sorry this post got so long; eek! I just hope that it can lead to some discussion rather than us posting whatever set is on our mind. Let's hear some opinions too alongside those thoughts!
  23. locoghoul


    Apr 29, 2008
    I'd like to see a Zoroark based team
  24. Aeromence


    Jun 3, 2011
    I'm in support of a team around salamence, but IMO, Mixed is its best set. Pair it SD lucario and you have an amazing offencive core. I also love Protect + Leech Seed Shaymin, so I guess we could build a team around those three or something. Anyway, here's a cool mon I came across while playing some broken-ass BP teams. It's a Mawile lol, but Super Mario Bro really fucked my team up with it lol:

    Mawile (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Iron Defense
    - Baton Pass
    - Substitute
    - Taunt / Stockpile

    For DDMence, I prefer using it as a cleaner, with a Lum Berry, but if I'm actually trying to play it midgame, I prefer Life Orb or Expert Belt.
  25. CommandurrClowncrete


    Jun 7, 2011
    I would support the DD Salamence idea. It is something around which you can create a team, it IS good and fairly under-rated this gen due to D-nite. It can work in HO teams(dual screen + sweepers), bulky offense teams, balanced teams, etc. It is also a fan favorite if it matters.

    I will post the set even though someone has already done it.

    Name: Offensive Dragon Dance
    ~ Dragon Dance
    ~ Outrage / Dragon Claw
    ~ Earthquake
    ~ Fire Blast / Roost
    item: Life Orb
    nature: Naive
    EVs:252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe

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