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OU CCAT - Round 7 - Revision

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by Doughboy, Jul 25, 2013.

  1. Doughboy

    Doughboy house of champions
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Community Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    [​IMG]
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG]
    Hello everyone! Welcome back to a brand new OU CCAT!
    Since the last thread lost interest, we (TGMD and I) have restarted the project. Some of you stated that the last OU CCAT's team's main subject, SubDD Dragonite, wasn't very interesting and good enough for the new metagame, so we are restarting with a brand new team. As you can see above, those question marks will be waiting to be filled up with our team mates, so let's get started!

    STEPS:​
    1. In round 1, users will submit the focus pokemon of the team. The majority of the time the pokemon is a sweeper, however any type of pokemon can become the focus pokemon for the team. Remember that while the focus pokemon should be successful the majority of the time, it should also be interesting enough to sustain interest in the CCAT. The CCAT is also a learning experience, so don't be afraid to go a little outside of the box and explore. At the end of the round 1, there will be a vote on the submitted pokemon sets by users. The pokemon that wins the majority of the votes will be the focus pokemon
    2. At the beginning of each new round, users will submit a pokemon set to compliment the focus Pokemon. The pokemon set should aim to contribute to the function of the focus pokemon (the pokemon chosen in round 1) and prevent the team as a whole from being threatened by the majority of the metagame. Again, the sets submitted by users will be subject to vote and whichever pokemon garners the most votes wins.
    3. After step 2 has been repeated for all the Pokemon in the team, we will have our semi-final team. Our semi-final team will be subject to a ladder test in order for us to revise any errors in our teambuilding. The CCAT may be featured on a Smogcast for a laddertest!
    4. After step 3, we will revise our team to get the final product.
    RULES:
    Changes in Format / Reminders:​
    • There are no more bonus votes for getting your set featured on the team.
    • There are no more slashes on Pokemon sets. Different slashes can take a team in different directions.
    • There will be no more "singular" voting. You will have the ability to vote for multiple Pokemon in one round (ussually 2-3). You must follow the direction of the post the starts a voting round. You MUST use all your votes.
    • You CAN vote your own set.
    • There will be no voting on the "team direction." The direction the team will be taking is reflected in the Pokemon sets you submit / vote for.
    • Do not vote for the set you think has the highest chance of winning. Vote for the set that you find is the most contributing to the team while being interesting at the same time.
    • Try not to have a submission be your only contribution for the CCAT. Discussion is important too for convincing / guiding users on the direction the team should take, the flaws of other submitted sets, and the threats that are found in the metagame now.
    Conclusion:

    So let's try this again and build the best team we can, while being interesting at the same time!

    Stream Information:

    ____________________________________________________________________________

    The Team:

    [​IMG]
    Landorus (Landorus-T) (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 76 HP / 252 Atk / 180 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
    - Rock Polish
    - Swords Dance

    [​IMG]
    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 152 Atk / 208 SAtk / 148 Spd
    Hasty Nature (+Spd, -Def)
    - Iron Head
    - Grass Knot
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Thunderbolt

    [​IMG]
    Rotom-Wash @ Chesto Berry
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 248 HP / 28 SAtk / 232 SDef
    Calm Nature
    - Rest
    - Volt Switch
    - Hydro Pump
    - Will-O-Wisp
    [​IMG]
    Terrakion @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Swords Dance
    - Stone Edge
    - Close Combat
    [​IMG]
    Dragonite @ Life Orb
    Trait: Multiscale
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 80 Atk / 176 Spd
    Mild Nature
    - Draco Meteor
    - Fire Blast
    - Superpower
    - Roost
    [​IMG]
    Scizor @ Choice Band
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Bullet Punch
    - Superpower
    - Pursuit
    - U-turn
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2013
  2. TGMD

    TGMD +Biosci: you both gave me crabs
    is a Tutoris a Battle Server Moderatoris a Team Rater Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
    Won OST Predictions

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    998
    [​IMG]
    Terrakion @ Salac Berry
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge
    - Substitute
    - Swords Dance

    With Landorus-I now gone, Terrakion is easily one of the best speed boosting sweepers in the game. Terrakion can come in on something scared of CB and sub up until it's in salac range and then proceed to SD. At this point there's almost nothing commonly found on teams that take a +2 STAB Stone Edge / Close Combat, and even fewer Pokemon that can outspeed it. Terrakion simply rips apart most offensive teams once priority is removed from the equation, and it can rip apart stall teams even easier after a few SDs. Terrakion is overall a very powerful threat that can fit on all kinds of teams, and sweep all kinds of teams, and it'd be a great starting point for any team.
  3. MikeDawg

    MikeDawg and now im gonna say penis
    is a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    732
    [​IMG]
    Volcarona @ Passho Berry
    Trait: Flame Body
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature
    - Quiver Dance
    - Giga Drain
    - Fire Blast
    - Bug Buzz

    Mon Explanation: Volcarona is a huge threat at the moment. While it is slowly rising, its number one counter in heatran suffered from a lengthy decline due to the prevalence of rain. At the same time, however, a multitude of solid checks in Tentacruel, Keldeo, etc. rose to keep the moth at bay. This Volcarona in particular is great at limiting the amount of centralization that it requires on a team. Passho Berry gives it the ability to set up not only on bulky waters but also on the likes of Scarf Keldeo, eliminating the need for weather control. Giga Drain offers valuable healing and coverage, while the rest is self explanatory.

    Why It Is Good For The Project: Volcarona is a mon that requires support. Between Stealth Rock, Dragons, and everything else that inhibits the moth, there is fantastic opportunity to construct a team around it, while Passho Berry and added coverage in Giga Drain from BW2 prevents it from being too constricting (it doesn't require weather, trapping, etc.). Not only this, but the opposing team will obviously counter team Volc due to not only its own offensive prowess but also the imminence of its checks. So we have yet another opportunity: to circumvent the inevitable support that the OTHER team provides solely to stopping Volcarona.

    Edit: Wait a minute, this isn't Counter that Pokemon. Just scratch the last sentence.

    Overall, Volcarona is strong, very much appreciates team support, and will make for a very interesting CCAT.

    I really like your analysis, but i feel as if I need to clarify a few things.

    1. I wasn't attempting to understate its counter and chekcs, it was more of an "even though it can better handle waters, it still has a number of checks like heatran, terrakion, etc.," with dragons and the like just implied. The point of that portion was simply to not give the impression that this volc can function well completely independently, thus making it a great choice since the team support options are numerous. (Though at +2, many of volc's "checks/counters" are 1hkod anyway (dragons die to fblast after rocks, terrak falls to gigia drain, etc)). Now how do we get to +2, you ask? Well.

    2. Volc has a huge number of setup opprotunities. Since I'm tired, this point is more of an independent one, not really in response to your post, but it'll tie in eventually. It can boost in front of non-staus celebi, special attackers like gengar, scizor, non-status ferro, forretress, jirachi if you're feeling ballsy, etc. What this means for the project is that Volc doesn't only enjoy traditional support like dugtrio, it also opens up the way for the utilization of "lures" of a sort like scizor or keldeo to draw in forry or celebi or whatever before double switching to volc. I believe this will make for a more unique experience than something like a subsalac mon considering how essentially tight the conditions must be to pull off a sweep, especially at such low healh.

    3. Passho Berry. I first tried passho over lo in my recent rmt after it was suggested and I absolutely loved it. It really is a "you have to try it" sort of thing. In the keldeo situation, why would volc be facing keldeo at +0? Scarf keldeo switches in to revenge volc, only to have it boost again to +2, giga drain for health and then sweep. It also aids against the likes of tentacruel (you get and extra qd) and jellicent (and starmie!). Equally important though is that if the opp has a safety net like keldeo they are more willing to sack something to bring it in and make reckless plays for the sake of taking down volc, only to then be met with a sweep. Also without life orb, volc manages some fantastic low health sweeps as the residual isn't wearing away. Without having something to take care of waters, it is more likely to give the impression that we need to build a sun team, which is ridiculously constraining to the project, whereas I have won game after game with passho volc in all weathers. I insist you try out passho as it is just fantastic!
  4. -Sparkbeat-

    -Sparkbeat-

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2012
    Messages:
    269
    [​IMG]
    Latios (M) @ Expert Belt / Life Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 248 HP / 8 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Calm Mind
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Surf
    - Psyshock

    Latios is mainly used for wall breaking via spamming Draco Meteors, but this set takes advantage of his impressive speed and immediate power to clean up late game or loosen a team up mid-game. He also serves as a great Pokemon for eliminating opposing weather starters, with only Hippowdon being very hard to eliminate. He can be fit onto almost any offensive team, some balance, and can be used as a cleaner on a stall team. Expert Belt is used over Life Orb to extend his sweep, and allows him to fit better on sandstorm teams. Calm Mind is makes us even harder to revenge, as the most common scarfer, Keldeo, can't deal much damage after some boosts. Dragon Pulse is just the better STAB here since it doesn't lower Latios's special attack. Surf hits Heatran and Tyranitar for good damage with some boosts, and Psyshock makes takes down Keldeo and Blisseyl. I find this set to be much more useful than the CM Latias set thanks to the immediate power of it, and the unpredictability. You can also bluff a choice set thanks to the Expert Belt which is just another plus. Changed the EV's to Shurtugal's suggestion from the old thread since they actually accomplish something instead of just going max/max. I still think this guy will make a really interesting CCAT, since it is a very underrated set for Latios.
  5. Joeyboy

    Joeyboy Check out my Youtube channel! JoeyboyGames!
    is a Smogon Media Contributoris a Team Rater Alumnus

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    Yeah yeah yeah, I'm doing the same nom.

    Dragonite (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Multiscale
    EVs: 252 HP / 80 Def / 176 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Dragon Claw
    - Substitute
    - Roost
    - Dragon Dance

    :) Edited EV spread a bit, the speed makes sure you outspeed +1 108s, like Scarf Keldeo and Terrakion. Anyway again I nommed this guy last time but here we go; Dragonite trashes teams once its few counters have gone. It also works well on a lot of different team styles.

    From my other post:

    How much experience is there with this Pokemon?

    This set was pretty popular during BW1 and had a surge after Stone Cold's RMT plus Snunch's ST8 winning team showed how awesome it really is. Plus, if I remember correctly Phil#s used it in his Frontier winning last game. Regardless its a well known threat but one that has had less and less popularity in the BW2 metagame. I think Genesect may have been the cause but I believe Sub+DD Dragonite would flourish at the moment.
    Bryce likes this.
  6. HUARGH

    HUARGH

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2013
    Messages:
    156
    Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
    Trait: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SDef
    Relaxed / Sassy Nature (+Def, -Spd / + SDef, -Spd)
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Leech Seed
    - Protect
    - Gyro Ball
    - Spikes

    Doesn't really need an explanation because everyone knows what this is, I just really like Ferrothorn and it happens to be a very good pokemon. Power whip can replace Spikes if necessary.


    [​IMG]
    Sableye @ Leftovers
    Trait: Prankster
    EVs: 252 HP / 244 Def / 12 Spd
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Foul Play
    - Recover
    - Taunt
    - Will O Wisp

    This is different. Prankster WoW and recover, foul play and maxed out physical defense makes Sableye very resilient and annoying to physical attackers, while still being able to hit some of the expected switch-ins with foul play (Celebi, Latios, ...,). Immunities to fighting and psychic are helpful (it totally walls focus blast/psychic pokemon for one) and an immunity to normal (and thus rapid spin) is icing on the cake. Pokemon such as Heatran and Volcarona are a big problem though.
  7. scotti

    scotti

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2013
    Messages:
    341
    [​IMG]
    Conkeldurr @ Life Orb
    Trait: Sheer Force
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - Drain Punch
    - Ice Punch
    - ThunderPunch
    - Mach Punch

    Come on people lets go with Conkelldurr. I just felt like posting Conkeldurr after seeing Halcyon RMT again (Not the recent one with Gary). I think it would be pretty cool using this thing mostly because of the good coverage and power this thing puts out. It can hit hard and hit most pokemon for SE damage. Examples: Breloom, Scizor, Keldeo, Heatran, Dragonite, Tyranitar, Celebi, Politoad, Tentacruel, Kyurem-B, and some more pokes, but those are the ones that came to my mind. Though it probably has to hit most of them on the switch in with great prediction. It has also been rising in usage and i though it would be great to nominate this thing because it is extremely underrated and i feel like it could be a good pokemon to be considered on this team.
    X5Dragon and Peache like this.
  8. Nysyr

    Nysyr

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2011
    Messages:
    376
    Sorry changing my set, again lol.

    [​IMG]
    Thundurus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Volt Absorb
    EVs: 100 Spd / 248 SAtk / 160 HP
    Modest Nature
    IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
    - Agility
    - Focus Blast
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hidden Power [Ice]

    Somewhat Bulky Thundy-T agility set. EVs allow for outspeeding every scarfer at +2, while outspeeding +nature base 70s and neutral base 80s.

    Makes for a great NastyPass or SubPass recipient.

    At +2 this set can 2hko even Blissey without rocks.
    Manectrifier and X5Dragon like this.
  9. Hot N Cold

    Hot N Cold hommies
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

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    Messages:
    1,345
    [​IMG]
    Metagross @ Life Orb
    Trait: Clear Body
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Agility
    - Zen Headbutt
    - Earthquake
    - Ice Punch

    Metagross is a great example like another mons such Garchomp, a good offense with a great bulk. Metagross with an overall bulk: 80/130/90, a good type that makes Metagross be hard to get revenge killer after an Agility since neutral or resist the damages from priority attacks like in the case of Bullet Punch and Extreemespeed along with a great physical bulk. This is the best coverage possible for agility gross in BW2, with Zen Headbutt like the stronger attack because STAB is useful against Rotom-W, Amoonguss or Keldeo; Earthquake is necesary for Heatran, Scizor, Jirachi and Tyranitar, rock and steel types in overall; last slot is for Ice Punch that allows to hit super effective against stuff like Dragonite, Landorus-T or Garchomp. The evs spread allows to outrun Scarf Keldeo / Terrakion after an Agility while that without any boost speed tie with another base 70 max speed like Politoed or Breloom.
    Finally the item is Life Orb since Lum Berry or Air Ballon should be just a bit weak with a Jolly nature, so the extra power thanks to Life Orb is mandatory.

    Best counters are some physically defensive walls such Skarmory or Def Hippowdown.
    Bryce likes this.
  10. Homeslice

    Homeslice

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2010
    Messages:
    537
    Scotti reposted my set, so ill be posting a new one here shortly. I'm currently on my phone right now so I can't really make an adequate post but I'm reserving my personal favorite Poke to use, CM Raikou.
  11. tml

    tml

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2011
    Messages:
    543
    [​IMG]
    Sharpedo @ Life Orb
    Trait: Speed Boost
    EVs: 252 Atk 252 Spe 4 Hp
    Waterfall
    Crunch
    Zen Headbutt
    Protect

    Not many hard counters, none that are not easy to dispose of. Shark appreciates spikes support to net some extra kills and probably rapid spin support so that its not instantly hindered upon switch-in. Rain support is nice to power up waterfall but it's not absolutely mandatory. Moveset is simple, Dual stab plus Zen Headbutt to strike Keldeo, Croak, and Virizion. You really bring in Sharpedo to just clean up the game and it excels with the right support so I feel this would be a cool poke to create a team around as a community.
    Bryce likes this.
  12. vyomov

    vyomov

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2013
    Messages:
    885
    [​IMG]
    Kyurem@Life Orb
    Ability: Pressure
    EVs: 52 HP/236 Spd/220 SpA
    Modest Nature
    - Substitute
    - Roost
    - Ice Beam
    - Earth Power

    One of THE most underrated threats in the metagame, SubRoost Kyurem can be nigh unbeatable if unprepared for. Ice Beam and Earth Power is excellent coverage off 130 SpA, this can hit hard. Kyurem also has amazing bulk and can easily pp stall mons with Pressure+Substitute+Roost. This fits the project because it allows room for creativity to use offbeat mons or EV Spreads without being non-competitive.

    Also, thanks SoulFly for the nice feedback.
    The reason this is perfect for the CCAT is because Kyurem needs some team support to be successful such as a spinner and a cover for the weaknesses it has, but it can be worth the work put in to build around it.
  13. MCBarrett

    MCBarrett i love it when you call me big hoppa

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2012
    Messages:
    551
    [​IMG]
    Garchomp @ Salac Berry
    Jolly Nature 252 att/ 252 spe/ 4 HP
    Substitute
    Swords Dance
    Earthquake
    Outrage

    Not to rip off Doom's suggestion, but I think Sub Salac Garchomp is a very interesting choice. This set still has a lot of surprise factor right now whereas Sub Salac Terrakion is somewhat expected at this point. Garchomp is a great abuser of this strategy as it's powerful dual STABs and great sweeping Stats force many switches and allow plenty of opportunity to set up. However, Garchomp still needs some solid team support seeing as it is outsped by things like Keldeo, Terrakion and Lati@s which are very common and can all do serious damage with the appropriate move. Also Skarmory and Bronzong have to be taken out before Garchomp starts sweeping.
  14. PDC

    PDC i zimbra
    is a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Team Rater Alumnus

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    [​IMG]
    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Ability: Serene Grace
    EVs: 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Iron Head
    - Toxic
    - Fire Punch
    - Substitute

    I have posted this set previously a long time ago, but this set is one of the most interesting you can place on Jirachi for the things it lures and Pokemon it can cripple. Jirachi is usually known for being a Scarfer, CMer, or paralysis user. This set changes it up quite a bit. When you think of your average Jirachi, you usually imagine these 3 sets, but this one shakes it off quite a bit. The most common Jirachi switches are usually Hippowdon, Landorus-T, Rotom-W, and Heatran. This specific set gives it a beautiful advantage against 3/4 of those Pokemon by crippling them with Toxic. If you think Paralysis + Flinch is annoying on the Specially Defensive set, meet Toxic + Flinch on an offensive set. You easily wear down Landorus-T and Hippowdon very quickly, and because of that you are able to open up holes for other sweepers very easily. Sub + Iron Head is annoying enough, but add Toxic to the equation and you have something even worse.

    This set is very well fitting for the current metagame, and is not very hard to use, but brings great reward. It can really aid some of the top sweepers in today's metagame, and that's why I feel this project should be trying out this set for use. It helps the likes of Terrakion, Landorus-T, Scizor, Breloom, Dragonite, and Salamence most notably. This Jirachi set is not only surprising, but a rather good turn of pace. It is a decently powerful threat that only gets walled truly by things like Heatran, as Skarmory especially dislikes getting a hindering burn, but it can be a little of a problem. This is something that definitely needs more notoriety in the current metagame, and I hope that this project will help accomplish that.
    Jcpdragonx, Trainer Au and alexwolf like this.
  15. C05ta

    C05ta

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2009
    Messages:
    114
    [​IMG]
    Latias (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Calm Mind
    - Reflect Type
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Roost

    CM Latias finds plenty of room to set-up in this meta with the prevalence of pokes like Keldeo/Celebi/Ferrothorn. However, most teams do pack an answer to CM Latias in Tyranitar/Scizor. Reflect Type allows Latias to turn these counters into set-up bait, and leaves most teams struggling to find an answer to Latias' new typing. I've never seen anyone else play this set, and I've had great success using it as a pivot on some of my more established teams. However, I feel that a team built around this set could be incredibly successful as it straight-up beats so many different teamstyles:
    -Sand Offense doesn't have an answer for CM Latias outside of a non-choiced Ttar with superpower, which is rare to say the least.
    -Rain Offense can only perish song once Latias takes Ferrothorn's typing.
    -Sun Offense struggles against Latias in general, and CM Latias is a great win condition.
    -Balanced teams offer Latias a multitude of opportunities to set-up on bulky waters lacking toxic as well as Celebi
  16. Plastic Moose

    Plastic Moose

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2013
    Messages:
    60
    How about this one?

    Meloetta @life orb
    EVs: 252 SpA/56 Atk/200 Spe
    Nature: Naive
    -Relic Song
    -Close Combat
    -Thunder
    -U-turn

    This is a really fun and interesting pokemon to use, and relic song really messes with momentum. U-turn smashes Celebi, and Thunder stops Jellicent from blocking Relic Song. Thunder also has a great 60% paralysis chance, and often ruins a lot of scarfers. This set has great power an special bulk in Aria, and great attack and speed in Pirouette. It's also very unprepared for, especially with the special sets being more common than mixed ones, so very few teams these days carry a good check to this set.
    (I did not create this set, I saw it in the OUTC thread, so I take no credit for the set.)
  17. Soul Fly

    Soul Fly IMMA TEACH YOU WHAT SPLASHIN' MEANS
    is a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2013
    Messages:
    1,923
    Comments on the Various Sets:
    (Fuck this shit. Need Hide tags)

    Few Notes Before I get started, basically about my criterion of reviews so you have a clearer idea of what I think this project needs in general. There are basically 3 criterions
    • How well the set works on it's own. Preferably shouldn't be a set which can operate with little or no support, meanwhile it also cannot be a set that requires too much specific support as it ruins team building options and restricts the scope of being creative with members and playstyles.
      --
    • Does the presence of the pokemon in our CCAT force our members to think out of the box and bring to table some unconventional options and creative sets?
      --
    • The inclusion of this Pokemon must not restrict the direction of this project very much (i.e like selecting something like venusaur, which basically automatically decided 3 teammates without any discussion), neither must it be an All-purpose Support pokemon which gives it NO DIRECTION at all leaving things vague and too open ended making it a meaningless member who isn't essential to the core of the team building.
      • PS: If the support Pokemon in question offers a specific viable niche (i.e memento/tailwind/healing wish) then it may be a very interesting candidate. Just don't nominate stuff like Chansey and Ferrothorn.
    ==============================================
    Now let's get cracking, shall we?
    ==============================================
    TGMD's SubSalac Terrakion:

    [​IMG]
    Code:
    Terrakion @ Salac Berry
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge
    - Substitute
    - Swords Dance
    Comments: Pretty Standard. Even if it need's support. Not a bad submission by any means but I'm having a hard time seeing how we can make an offbeat and a fresh flavored team, when the support options are all pretty standard. You can literally chuck it on any (good) balanced team and you wouldn't be too inconvenienced.
    ====================

    MikeDawg's Passho Volcarona

    [​IMG]
    Code:
    Volcarona @ Passho Berry
    Trait: Flame Body
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature
    - Quiver Dance
    - Giga Drain
    - Fire Blast
    - Bug Buzz
    Volcarona is a fantastic submission, but I have problems with this set. You claim it's only heatran, but this set has a lot of trouble with Dragons and common rain support options like Tentacruel. Also that claim about handling waters is also is somewhat false.
    Keldeo straight out OHKOes in the rain even with Passho, and 2HKOes otherwise (and this is JUST surf, forget Hydro). You aren't doing anything in front of it, since it outspeeds you even after +1, giga drain doesn't OHKO Keldeo without QD. So there isn't a single favourable scenario for you to set-up in front of Keldeo, and on top of that Volcarona already has issues with Hazards. Not to mention LO/Lum absence is a considerable drawback. Passho just doesn't work, requires TOO much support, which is flipside of being a lone wolf easy to use mon.
    I'm not picking on you, but I know because I use volc a LOT, so please don't take any slight. This set tries too hard to be a hybrid between Bulky and Offensive and ends up being a situational gimmick (imho) and has match up problems v/s a lot of common OU threats, especially without LO/Lum. IMO you could try reverting to standard offensive volc or go for Bulkarona (which i think is better for something like CCAT).

    I would like to see more from you. You have a nice idea of what this is about.
    ======================

    Lunatic Lies's bulky CM Latios

    [​IMG]
    Code:
    Latios (M) @ Expert Belt / Life Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 248 HP / 8 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Calm Mind
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Surf
    - Psyshock
    2 Questions:
    a.) How is this EV spread better than Max/Max?
    b) Even if it is, why not just use Latias?

    even at +1/+1 it's extremely weak and frail, nor does it hit hard, and in this meta, you're not getting more than a single boost in with something like Latios, no matter how much bulk you give it. So I don't get it.
    ===========================

    Joeyboy's MonoAttack BulkyNite

    [​IMG]
    Code:
    Dragonite (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Multiscale
    EVs: 252 HP / 80 Def / 176 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Dragon Claw
    - Substitute
    - Roost
    - Dragon Dance
    I will not lie. I pretty much use DNite in 9/10 of my teams, but I don't like this set. Even with the added bulk, it has too much hard time against steels and even after boosting isn't very spectacular offensively. It really has solid trouble against common OU stuff like Scizor, Ferrothorn, TankTran and Hippodown, who just plain out make it's life difficult. The only thing that is good about this set is how it can set up on common OU mons locked in the wrong move, and get off a Sub+DD. Plus it's main niche was that it was good against Lando-I,( but he isn't around anymore is he :( ). This is strictly a personal opinion but I'd like something more flexible to work with. This just requires to much concentrated support, and limits teambuilding options a lot, and don't take it personally but I'm pretty sure that's the reason which caused the general level of disinterest in the last CCAT.
    ==========================

    HUARGH'S standard Ferrothorn

    [​IMG]
    Code:
    Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
    Trait: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SDef
    Relaxed / Sassy Nature (+Def, -Spd / + SDef, -Spd)
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Leech Seed
    - Protect
    - Gyro Ball
    - Spikes
    Yeah ok, nothing much to say. Pretty much the definition of standard and I have the same issues with it as I have with TGDM's Terrak. That and the fact the CCAT doesn't get a solid direction with a support mon, unless it has a specific niche (like tailwind or Memento etc etc)
    ============================

    scotti's Wallbreaker Conkeldurr

    [​IMG]
    Code:
    Conkeldurr @ Life Orb
    Trait: Sheer Force
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - Drain Punch
    - Ice Punch
    - ThunderPunch
    - Fire Punch
    This is a Good submission. This is a Pokemon which is really good on it's own while still with enough flaws to require proper support to carry out it's job. These are the kinds of submissions that make CCAT an interesting experience since it allows people to come up with lots of offensive and defensive support options.
    I have only ONE issue with this set Go with Mach Punch>Fire Punch Priority is ABSOLUTELY essential for this set to work, giving up Fire Punch doesn't affect coverage much, you're still pretty much 2HKOing relevant steels and walls w/ Fighting+Boltbeam.
    ============================

    Nysyr's Standard MixKyurem-B

    [​IMG]
    Code:
    Kyurem-Black @ Leftovers
    Trait: Teravolt
    EVs: 216 Atk / 236 Spd / 56 HP
    Lonely Nature
    - Fusion Bolt
    - Ice beam
    - Dragon Claw
    - Substitute
    Weak submission. I really don't what new it'll bring to the table. The only "support" it needs is a reliable rapid spinner and a physical tank. Meh
    ============================

    Hot n Cold's LO Metagross

    [​IMG]
    Code:
    Metagross @ [I]Life Orb[/I]
    Trait: Clear Body
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Agility
    - Zen Headbutt
    - Earthquake
    - Ice Punch
    Metagross is just plain Bad in this meta. sub-standard STAB coverage without Meteor Mash, even which is appallingly underwhelming with it's accuracy considering it's his primary coverage STAB move. Falls to bulky water who can fish for a scald burn with impunity. Falls to Skarmory,who can just Phaze it out without batting an eye. You have nothing against Ferrothorn. Major OU threats like Scarf Latios and SunSaur Outspeed it even after an Agility boost. Forretress just spams hazards at your face. In short, a bad selection for this meta.
    ==========================

    tml's LO Sharpedo

    [​IMG]
    Code:
    Sharpedo @ Life Orb
    Trait: Speed Boost
    EVs: 252 Atk 252 Spe 4 Hp
    Waterfall
    Crunch
    Zen Headbutt
    Protect
    I have recently been using Sharpedo, and tell you what it's darn good. Especially in the rain. BUT that bulk is very substandard. I mean basically any neutral (even some resisted hits) will take it down. Wth Scizor, Breloom and Conk running wild this meta, you are fucked most of the times even late game. And it also has some bad 4MSS being forced to choose between Zen Headbutt and EQ which leaves it either walled by ferrothorn and Physically defensive steels or cockblocked by stuff like Keldeo, whom you cannot OHKO otherwise. Could be a decent pick but as with Monoattacking Dnite, this suffers from the case of being a super niche pokemon (even more so) and limits teambuilding options by basically making rain a necessity and 2 sets of priority/Keldeo counters and stuff like that.
    ==========================

    vyomov's SubRoost Kyurem

    [​IMG]
    Code:
    Kyurem@Life Orb
    Ability: Pressure
    EVs: 52 HP/232 Spd/220 SpA
    Modest Nature
    - Substitute
    - Roost
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Focus Blast
    USE THIS OMG THIS IS SO GOOD
    no seriously, the community needs to know about this.
    My only suggestion is that you switch around the attacking moves. Ice Beam and Earth Power are pretty much non-negotiable to counter the threats this set usually faces, though Dragon Pulse is Usable. Chuck Focus blast please. EP and Ice Beam hits all the relevant steels.
    Perfect coverage is of little consequence to him, since his primary roll is SubRoost stalling with Pressure. Also change the EV spread to a slightly more efficient 52 HP / 220 SpA / 236 Spe spread. You are missing a few EVs there.
    Do this and this nomination has my full support
    =======================


    McBarret's SubSalac Chomper
    [​IMG]
    Code:
    Garchomp @ Salac Berry
    Jolly Nature 252 att/ 252 spe/ 4 HP
    Substitute
    Swords Dance
    Earthquake
    Outrage
    <Read: my opinions about TGMD's SubSalac terrak>
    ======================

    PDC's Jirachi

    [​IMG]
    Code:
    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Ability: Serene Grace
    EVs: 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Iron Head
    - Toxic
    - Fire Punch
    - Substitute
    Nothing much to say. Not a very outstanding suggestion but a good one nonetheless, using an underrated set for a pretty standard OU fare and providing a general team building exercise.
    =========================

    C05ta's Reflect Type Latias

    [​IMG]
    Code:
    Latias (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Calm Mind
    - Reflect Type
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Roost
    Another interesting suggestion, but this is better used as a support mon to patch up holes. While reflect type is good for defense, you are still a punching bag, since Dragon type is pretty sub-standard without STAB, and you'd substantial (i.e +2) to do any significant damage (something just not possible consistently in OU), that and the fact that you fall to common cores like Keld-Tar, because Reflect type also causes you to lose your Dragon/Psychic typing which leaves you open to many common OU threats.
    =====================
    Plastic Moose's Meloetta

    [​IMG]
    Code:
    Meloetta @life orb
    EVs: 252 SpA/56 Atk/200 Spe
    Nature: Naive
    -Relic Song
    -Close Combat
    -Thunder
    -U-turn
    for obvious reasons I'm not entertaining this.
    Doughboy and Peache like this.
  18. vyomov

    vyomov

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2013
    Messages:
    885
    @SoulFly: Thanks a LOT for the review, was quite constructive and have made the due changes!
  19. Soul Fly

    Soul Fly IMMA TEACH YOU WHAT SPLASHIN' MEANS
    is a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2013
    Messages:
    1,923

    You are still missing the 4 EVs in your spread, maybe you forgot to add them up?
  20. vyomov

    vyomov

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2013
    Messages:
    885
    Oops!
    Anyways, will edit this post to comment about the other submissions later :)
  21. Nysyr

    Nysyr

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2011
    Messages:
    376
    Soul Fly I think you'll find it very hard to be original now since we are near the end of gen 5's lifespan.

    Not saying you were wrong in your analysis, but really everything is out there bar a few under used mons like Conkeldurr (imo a shoe in to win this). If originality was what the OP wanted, it should be updated to reflect that. Other than scrolling down to bottom of the OU usage list I'm not sure what could be done.
  22. Soul Fly

    Soul Fly IMMA TEACH YOU WHAT SPLASHIN' MEANS
    is a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2013
    Messages:
    1,923

    You may have a point but I don't believe that. Look at my analysis. Bar Conkeldurr,and Melloetta all of them are commonly seen OU/UU Pokemon.

    I never said, "bring some obscure/NU shit" Pokemon. I have been perfectly happy with standard pokemon with unconventional twists in their movesets. (Refer to PDC's Jirachi review). You'll notice I haven't been sympathetic towards certain 'original' and 'offbeat' submissions like Meloetta and Latios.

    Even if you refer to the criteria I set out before the review you'll notice I mention nothing about the "how common/original is the submitted Pokemon", I just DON'T want it to be a super common sweeper that can literally be chucked onto any 10 minute team. If that's the case then the CCAT loses it's point. My point was more about Originality in the Team building process and the challenge of finding unique solutions as a community to build a team around a certain interesting submission. If you are picking up something super standard, then the team building process becomes a semi-automatic drone, prone to picking the same pokemon and cores, doesn't bring any real focus and objectivity.

    That's what I meant when I stated what new it'll bring to the table

    If you are talking about your specific submission, my primary problem with it wasn't originality, to begin with in the first place.


    POINT TO NOTE: My review was independent of the OP's expectations. I'm not a mind reader and it is certainly not my obligation to know the OPs stand on 'originality'. This review indicates my expectation on a fresh and educative CCAT experience. The OP (and by extension the community) is free to do as they please and carry it in any direction.
    Peache and MikeDawg like this.
  23. HUARGH

    HUARGH

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2013
    Messages:
    156
    I agree with this actually. It is just that I throw Ferrothorn on every single team of mine, but I guess that is probably the problem here - it isn't very creative and doesn't really push the team into any direction. Therefor I will edit my original post right after this one with another pokemon:

    [​IMG]
    Sableye @ Leftovers
    Trait: Prankster
    EVs: 252 HP / 244 Def / 12 Spd
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Foul Play
    - Recover
    - Taunt
    - Will O Wisp

    This is different. Prankster WoW and recover, foul play and maxed out physical defense makes Sableye very resilient and annoying to physical attackers, while still being able to hit some of the expected switch-ins with foul play (Celebi, Latios, ...,). Immunities to fighting and psychic are helpful (it totally walls focus blast/psychic pokemon for one) and an immunity to normal (and thus rapid spin) is icing on the cake. Pokemon such as Heatran and Volcarona are a big problem though.
    Princess Bubblegum likes this.
  24. MikeDawg

    MikeDawg and now im gonna say penis
    is a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    May 30, 2013
    Messages:
    732
    I really like your analysis, but i feel as if I need to clarify a few things.

    1. I wasn't attempting to understate its counter and chekcs, it was more of an "even though it can better handle waters, it still has a number of checks like heatran, terrakion, etc.," with dragons and the like just implied. The point of that portion was simply to not give the impression that this volc can function well completely independently, thus making it a great choice since the team support options are numerous. (Though at +2, many of volc's "checks/counters" are 1hkod anyway (dragons die to fblast after rocks, terrak falls to gigia drain, etc)). Now how do we get to +2, you ask? Well.

    2. Volc has a huge number of setup opprotunities. Since I'm tired, this point is more of an independent one, not really in response to your post, but it'll tie in eventually. It can boost in front of non-staus celebi, special attackers like gengar, scizor, non-status ferro, forretress, jirachi if you're feeling ballsy, etc. What this means for the project is that Volc doesn't only enjoy traditional support like dugtrio, it also opens up the way for the utilization of "lures" of a sort like scizor or keldeo to draw in forry or celebi or whatever before double switching to volc. I believe this will make for a more unique experience than something like a subsalac mon considering how essentially tight the conditions must be to pull off a sweep, especially at such low healh.

    3. Passho Berry. I first tried passho over lo in my recent rmt after it was suggested and I absolutely loved it. It really is a "you have to try it" sort of thing. In the keldeo situation, why would volc be facing keldeo at +0? Scarf keldeo switches in to revenge volc, only to have it boost again to +2, giga drain for health and then sweep. It also aids against the likes of tentacruel (you get and extra qd) and jellicent (and starmie!). Equally important though is that if the opp has a safety net like keldeo they are more willing to sack something to bring it in and make reckless plays for the sake of taking down volc, only to then be met with a sweep. Also without life orb, volc manages some fantastic low health sweeps as the residual isn't wearing away. Without having something to take care of waters, it is more likely to give the impression that we need to build a sun team, which is ridiculously constraining to the project, whereas I have won game after game with passho volc in all weathers. I insist you try out passho as it is just fantastic!
  25. -Sparkbeat-

    -Sparkbeat-

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2012
    Messages:
    269
    @Soul Fly



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