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OU Check and Counter List
- Thread starter Nog
- Start date
- Status
Mega Venusaur was reserved by TFL I just forgot to update the OP.
Volcarona
Checks:
Checks:
- Talonflame(hard) - resistance to both STABs, priority Brave Bird to always OHKO it.
- Keldeo(soft) - resistance to both STABs, can kill with water STAB, can be killed by Giga Drain if weakened beforehand
- Tyranitar(soft) - has the special bulk to live any unboosted hit, has to rely on Stone Edge to kill, weak to bug STAB
- Azumarill - resistant to both STABs, great bulk, has aqua jet to revenge kill if necessary
- Heatran - immune to one STAB and resists the other, can threaten with status or roar out, has to be wary of rare HP Ground
- Chansey - amazing special bulk, can threaten with status and keep itself constantly healthy with Wish/Softboiled
- Latios - offers Defog support, can lure in Heatran with Earthquake, switches into Keldeo
- Zapdos- offers Defog support, can switch into priority from the likes of Talonflame, Pinsir and Azumarill
- Landorus-T - switches into Terrakion, can bring Volcarona in safely on pokemon that annoy him like Skarmory and Ferrothorn
Azumarill
Checks:
Checks:
- Thundurus(soft) - easily KOs with an Electric STAB, too frail to survive a Waterfall or Play Rough
- Mega Manectric(soft) - Intimidate lowers its Attack on switch-in, Electric-type STAB, still dislikes Play Rough or Waterfall
- Mega Scizor(hard) - resists Fairy STAB and bulky enough to tank a Waterfall, can easily set up on it with Roost and Swords Dance
- Rotom-W(hard) - resists Water STAB, can cripple every variant with Will-O-Wisp
- Breloom(soft) - resists Aqua Jet, can use Spore or Grass move, dies to Play Rough
- Zapdos(hard) - very bulky and access to Roost, maims with Electric STAB
- Mega Venusaur - resists both STAB moves, monstrous bulk and Synthesis, can threaten with Giga Drain or Sludge Bomb
- Skarmory - resists Fairy STAB, very high physical bulk and reliable recovery with Roost, Whirlwind phazes it out
- Ferrothorn - resists both STAB moves, Leech Seed + Protect gives it semi-reliable recovery, threatens back with Power Whip
- Greninja - powerful wallbreaker, lures in Mega Venusaur and Ferrothorn respectively
- Latias - can switch into Electric attacks from Thundurus and Mega Manectric, beats Mega Venusaur
- Thundurus - can fry bulky Water-types and Skarmory, lures in Mega Venusaur with Psychic or HP Flying
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(Mega-)Pinsir
Checks:
Checks:
- Talonflame(soft) - has priority brave bird to always OHKO, can't switch in, could be shaky if Pinsir runs Feint and stealth rock is up
- Thundurus(hard) - resists Return, acces to STAB Thunderbolt, is 2HKOd by Return
- Rotom-W(hard) - resists Return, has good bulk, can threaten with status, keeps itself healthy with Pain Split/Restochest
- Tyranitar(soft) - resists Return, can OHKO with Stone Edge, has to be physically defensive to live a +2 Earthquake
- Skarmory - can take any hit from Pinsir and stay healthy with Roost, 2HKOs with Brave Bird
- Zapdos - can take any hit from Pinsir and stay healthy with Roost, deals huge damage(if not kill it) with Thunderbolt
- Rhyperior - incredible physical bulk, Solid Rock nullifies Earthquakes supereffectiveness, OHKOs with Stone Edge/Rock Blast
- Talonflame - forms "Double Bird" combination to wear down each others counters
- Excadrill - removes hazards for Pinsir, can switch into electric moves, beats Rotom-W with Mold Breaker Earthquake
- Zapdos - offers Defog support for Pinsir, can switch into and threaten out Pinsir's counters and checks like Talonflame and Skarmory
- A teammate that beats Thundurus is beneficial to Pinsir's success, so Kyurem-B, Conkeldurr and Freeze Dry Mamoswine can help greatly.
Gyarados deserves a mention here, resists both STABs, sets up all over it.
True but i was restricting it to three very different pokemon lol
Breloom
Checks:
Checks:
- Talonflame (soft) – Resists both STABs, Priority Flying STAB, Sleep Talk, Will-o-Wisp, Taunt, Revenge kills, Must be careful of Rock Tomb
- Gengar (hard) – Immune to Fighting STAB, Resists Grass STAB, Will-o-Wisp, Taunt, Revenge kills, Sludge Wave Availability
- Thundurus (soft) – Resist both STABs, Prankster Substitute, Taunt, and Thunder Wave, Revenge kills, Hidden Power Ice/Flying Available
- Goodra (hard) – Immune to all Grass moves, Takes minimal damage from Rock coverage, Sludge Bomb Availability
- Mega Venusaur – Resists Both STABs, Immune to Spore, Takes minimal damage from Rock Coverage, Bulk, Reliable Recovery, Sludge Bomb Availability
- Skarmory – Resists Grass STAB, Takes minimal damage from Fighting STAB and Rock coverage, Bulk, Reliable Recovery, Brave Bird Availability
- Chesnaught – Immune to Bullet Seed and Spore, Resists Rock coverage, Takes minimal damage from Fighting STAB, Reliable Recovery
- Breloom is best played on Hyper Offensive teams and Balanced teams because of its low bulk, high attack stat, and access to priority
- Heatran – Counters Talonflame, walls the standard Goodra, Mega Venusaur, and Skarmory, Softens threats up with Stealth Rock support
- Thundurus – Able to beat Chesnaught, Skarmory, Mega Venusaur, and Talonflame with Thunderbolt and Hidden Power Flying, Thunder Wave faster threats
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252 Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Goodra: 172-203 (44.7 - 52.8%) -- 19.9% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Breloom Focus Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Goodra: 330-388 (85.9 - 101%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
I don't we should mention his tanking abilities of Fight moves as a plus.
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Mega Mawile
Checks:
Checks:
- All offensive Mega Mawile checks need to be wary of Substitute and / or Sucker Punch
- Rotom-W (hard) - Faster than most common Mega Mawile; can burn Mega Mawile (w/ Will-O-Wisp, ofc) and make it easier to wall; must be wary of Play Rough on the switch-in
- Garchomp (soft) - Can OHKO w/ Earthquake; has to watch for Play Rough and Sucker Punch (assuming Mega Mawile has boosted)
- Talonflame (soft) - Resists Fairy STAB and threatens w/ Flare Blitz; can create mind games w/ Gale Wings Brave Bird and burn Mega Mawile w/ Will-O-Wisp; has to watch for Knock Off and Sucker Punch mind games
- Keldeo (hard) - Resists Sucker Punch; can OHKO w/ Specs-boosted Hydro Pump; has to be careful not to switch into a Play Rough
- Mega Mawile has no counters bar Mega Aggron after it gets a Swords Dance boost; all counters below assume an unboosted Mega Mawile
- Mega Venusaur - Resists Mawile's Fairy STAB and doesn't care much about Sucker Punch and / or Knock Off; can hit Mega Mawile w/ Earthquake or Leech Seed stall it out
- Heatran - Resists both of Mawile's STABs; can either OHKO w/ Fire Blast (assuming offensive) or burn Mawile; needs to watch for the rare Focus Punch as well as the caveat above
- Skarmory - Resists Fairy STAB; can tank hits from an unboosted Mega Mawile and phaze it out or use it as hazard set-up fodder
- Hippowdon - Can tank two Play Roughs and 2HKO w/ Earthquake
- Mega Mawile can mesh with nearly every team style, but it functions best on balanced and offense teams as a wallbreaker
- Thundurus - Has access to Prankster Thunder Wave to slow down offensive checks; moveset can be tailored to eliminate certain Mega Mawile counters
- Dragonite - Shares impressive offensive and defensive synergy w/ Mega Mawile; both can break down common walls so one can pull off a sweep
- Greninja - Can break down many of Mega Mawile's counters w/ its Protean-boosted special attacks and Mega Mawile can do the same w/ many of Greninja's counters
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Edit: here's ninja
Greninja:
Checks:
Counters:
Greninja:
Checks:
- Azumarill(hard):]resists all of Hydro Pump, Ice Beam, Dark Pulse, and U-turn, easily KOs with either Waterfall or Play Rough, can revenge kill Greninja with Aqua Jet if its not a type that resists water.Watch out for repeated Extrasensory or Hidden Power Grass.
- Keldeo(soft): like Azumarill resists all of Hydro Pump, Ice Beam, Dark Pulse, and U-turn, and can easily KO in return. VERY vulnerable to the increasingly common Extrasensory though, not to mention Hidden Power Grass.
- Kyurem-B(hard??): easily takes Hydro Pumps and has more than enough bulk to take anything else, KOs with Fusion Bolt in return, Stealth Rock weak.
- Mega Venusaur(hard): resists Hydro Pump and has the bulk to take everything else post mega evolution, takes a hard hit from Extrasensory.
- Rotom-W(soft): resists Hydro Pump and Ice Beam, takes a lot from Dark Pulse, Extrasensory, and especially HP Grass though
Counters:
- Chansey: lol greninja isnt breaking this as long as its a special attacker
- Clefable: neutral to everything at worst and has trhe bulk to take any attack when invested, has reliable recovery.
- Sylveon: same as Clefable except it exchanges more bulk and power for a lack of unaware or magic guard.
- Ferrothorn: resists Hydro Pump and has more than enough bulk to take anything else except for a random hidden power fire.
- Works best on offensive teams that appreciate a fast special attacker with lots of coverage
- Mega Mawile can break through quite a few of Greninja's checks and counters as well as defensive pokemon in general, letting greninja tear up the remains of a weakened team later on.
- Deoxys-D's ability to easily lay multiple layers of hazards goes great with Greninja's amazing speed and coverage, letting it pressure the opponent just that much more.
- Aegislash matches up pretty well against quite a few of greninja's checks, and like mawile is good at breaking down defensive pokemon so greninja can clean up more easily later
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Latias
Checks:
Checks:
- Tyranitar can switch into Psyshock and Draco Meteor (under Sandstorm) and threaten to KO
- Skarmory can switch into Draco Meteor and Psyshock and set-up hazards or phaze Latias
- Azumarill can switch into Draco Meteor and threaten to KO
- Non Surf variants get countered by Heatran and Tyranitar
- Non HP Fire variants get countered by Aegislash, Ferrothorn and Bisharp
- Non Thunderbolt variants get countered by Skarmory
- Offensive Defog Latias fits well on offensive teams because it provides valuable resistances, utility and great offensive presense
- Latias is Pursuit bait so Fighting Types such as Lucario and Keldeo makes great partners
- Chansey/Blissey are a pain so Physical Attackers are great teammates
Try and make your post more like the template. For example change your Tyranitar entry to:
Tyranitar (hard) - Immune to Psychic STAB, Can Pursuit trap, Boosted SDef in sand, Bulk, Crunch Availability
Using a list format allows more points to be brought up in a smaller amount of space and can save time and energy. As far as quality goes you aren't wrong or lacking so keep up the good work.
tagging Nog
I think the categories are good for the most part, since these will allow players to distinguish cases when these Pokemon are used differently. However, it seems like a few of the defense / support entries would overlap a bit. For support threats, I'd leave in those Pokemon that perform a purely supportive role (e.g. Klefki, Espeon, Sableye) and / or function significantly different than they would in another list (e.g. Deoxys-S, Scolipede, Thundurus) and move a few of them whose entries would overlap into one list. My only issue with making some of the entries overlap is that what overlaps and vice versa is subjective, so I'll leave the combination of entries to your judgment.
To add utility to this post, I'll reserve Mega Gardevoir and Support Deoxys-Defense. Also, I'd like to make a case for Shuckle getting a support entry in the threat list, using Jukain's post here as the main argument.
I think the categories are good for the most part, since these will allow players to distinguish cases when these Pokemon are used differently. However, it seems like a few of the defense / support entries would overlap a bit. For support threats, I'd leave in those Pokemon that perform a purely supportive role (e.g. Klefki, Espeon, Sableye) and / or function significantly different than they would in another list (e.g. Deoxys-S, Scolipede, Thundurus) and move a few of them whose entries would overlap into one list. My only issue with making some of the entries overlap is that what overlaps and vice versa is subjective, so I'll leave the combination of entries to your judgment.
To add utility to this post, I'll reserve Mega Gardevoir and Support Deoxys-Defense. Also, I'd like to make a case for Shuckle getting a support entry in the threat list, using Jukain's post here as the main argument.
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^
Also I'd like to reserve Rotom-W from defensive and Mega Charizard Y
Also I'd like to reserve Rotom-W from defensive and Mega Charizard Y
Shuckle e.e
Will edit Shuckle in and swap some pokemon around. Thanks for the feedback.
I'll reserve offensive
Excadrill
Checks:
Teammates / Play Style:
This is my first analysis for this thread, so tell me if I did anything wrong.
Checks:
- Landorus-I (hard) – immune to earthquake, takes minimal damage from rock slide, careful of scarfed iron head
- Pinsir (soft) – takes minimal damage (immune when mega) from earthquake, careful of rock slide if mega evolved or scarfed rock slide if not
- Talonflame (soft) – immune to earthquake, resists iron head, careful of rock slide
- Gyarados (soft) – immune to earthquake before mega evolving, careful of either two rock slides on regular Gyarados, or rock slide and earthquake on mega-Gyarados, carful of switching in with stealth rock in play
- Most faster offensive pokemon that can hit it with a super effective move can revenge kill it, though you should be wary of scarf Excadrill.
- Landorus-T – immune to earthquake, takes minimal damage from coverage moves, OHKO’s with earthquake
- Skarmory – immune to earthquake, takes minimal damage from coverage moves, can wall all Excadrill and can clear hazards
- Hippowdon – takes minimal damage from earthquake and coverage moves, can set up hazards on switch out or KO with earthquake
- Chesnaught- resists earthquake, takes maximum of 37% from iron head, can wall and KO with harmer arm
- Gliscor - immune to earthquake, takes minimal damage from coverage moves, can KO with earthquake or set up a substitute
Teammates / Play Style:
- Excadrill is best on offensive teams, due to its subpar bulk, decent speed, and great offensive presence.
- Pokemon weak to stealth rock, such as both Mega-Charizards, Mega Pinsir, Thundurus-i, Talonflame, Gyarados, and Dragonite can take advantage of its ability to reliably keep hazards off the field. They also fit well on offensive teams.
- Rotom-W is a great partner as it can switch in and cripple many of Excadrill’s checks and counters with will-o-wisp.
- Keldeo can take advantage of bulky ground types that attempt to switch into Excadrill (and specs with HP flying can KO Chesnaught).
This is my first analysis for this thread, so tell me if I did anything wrong.
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Very good job, keep up the good work man, editing completed for you and you can reserve more Pokemon.
making a seperate post for kyurem-b so nog notices without me telling him.
Kyurem-B:
Checks:
Counters:
Teammates/playstyle:
Kyurem-B:
Checks:
- Aegislash(hard??): resists Kyurem's Ice and Dragon-type moves and has the bulk to take Fusion Bolt, can damage Kyurem in return with one of Shadow Ball, Iron Head, or Sacred Sword, has to watch out for repeated Earth Powers though, and Stance Change mindgames can be an annoyance when trying to beat sub varients.
- Chansey(hard): is so absurdly bulky it can take any hit from Kyurem that isnt a max attack Outrage with a boosting item and can recover off all the damage, can wear Kyurem-B without Roost down with Seismic Toss, or Toxic Stall it out, loses to uncommon Subroost.
- Mega Mawile(soft): Immune to Dragon, resists Ice, and bulk+Intimidate pre mega protects it against Fusion bolt, VERY vulnerable to Earth Power though.
- Ferrothorn(hard): very bulky, neutral or resistant to all of Kyurem-B's moves, and can either Leech Seed or Gyro Ball in return, can be worn down by repeated Ice Beams or surprised by Hidden Power Fire
Counters:
- Mega Scizor: resists Ice Beam and (insert dragon move here), is neutral to Earth Power and avoids the @HKO with the right spread, and has more than enough physical bulk to take Fusion Bolt multiple times. Can either use Kyurem as set up bait or KO it with a Bullet Punch to the face, reliable recovery in Roost. Basically unless Kyurem has hp fire this is 100% foolproof.
- Sylveon: immune to Dragon-type moves and has enough bulk to take everything else bar a rare Iron Head with the correct EV spread, can heal itself over the course of the match with Wishtect, and Hyper Voice hits Kyurem-B even when its behind a Substitute
- Clefable: in a similar boat to Sylveon, however its not quite as bulky so you have to be a bit more careful.
Teammates/playstyle:
- Works best on teams that appreciate a wallbreaker that can take out annoying defensive threats such as Hippowdon, Mega Venusaur, Heatran, Skarmory, and Mandibuzz.
- Kyurem-B's weakness to Stealth Rock is a pain, so pokemon with Rapid Spin and Defog, such as Lati@s, Excadrill, and Zapdos, make good teammates. Zapdos in particular can check Mega Scizor and Ferrothorn for Kyurem-B, two big annoyances to it.
- Mega Pinsir appreciates Kyurem-B's ability to take out annoying Pokemon such as Zapdos, Skarmory, and Thundurus lacking a Fighting-type move, just remember that you need something to remove Stealth Rock all the more when pairing the two.
- SD Mega Scizor can take on a few of Kyurem's checks and counters such as the mono fairies and Chansey very well, and apprecciates Kyurem-B's ability to remove annoyances such as Heatran and Skarmory as well.
- Mega Mawile is in a similar boat to mega Scizor, and the two make a very nice wallbreaking core together out of sheer raw power
**re-editted**
Latias:
Checks:
Latias:
Checks:
- Bisharp - Immune to Psychic STAB, Resists Dragon STAB, Benefits from Defog, Capable of trapping, Access to Knock Off, Pursuit and Sucker Punch
Why a check? Answer - Bisharp takes over 50% from Hidden Power Fire and therefore isn't the most consistent switch-in - Mawile - Immune to Dragon STAB, Resists Psychic STAB, Bulk, Access to Play Rough, Sucker Punch and Knock Off
Why a check? Answer - Mawile has a good chance of being 2HKO'd by HP Fire after Stealth Rock damage - Azumarill - Immune to Dragon STAB, Capable of tanking a Psyshock, Access to Play Rough and Knock Off
Why a check? Answer - Azumarill takes over 50% from Thunderbolt and therefore isn't the most consistent switch-in - Scizor - Resists both STABs, Bulk, Access to Pursuit and U-turn
Why a check? Answer - Scizor takes over 50% from Hidden Power Fire and therefore isn't the most consistent switch-in
- Tyranitar - Immune to Psychic STAB, Capable of tanking Draco Meteor with minimal defensive investments thanks to the Special Defense boost from Sandstream, Access to Pursuit and Crunch
- Gardevoir - Immune to Dragon STAB, Resists Psychic STAB, Bulk, Access to Moonblast and Shadow Ball
- Aegislash - Resists both STABs, tanks all coverage moves with minimal defensive investments, Access to Shadow Ball, Pursuit and Shadow Sneak
- An absolute god(dess)send for Offensive teams. The ability to Defog hazards and Screens, check common offensive Pokemon (i.e - Keldeo, Rotom Wash, Thundurus-Incarnate, etc) and provide utility through things like Healing Wish, Offensive teams appreciate Latias greatly
- Pokemon that can take advantage of common Latias switch-ins make phenomenal partners. For example, Lucario can set-up on Bisharp and Terrakion while Latias can eliminate all of Lucario's checks such as Conkeldurr.
- Attracts the fat blobs of OU, so Physical attackers make the cut.
- Status