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OU Debut: 5th Gen

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by fire r a g e, Nov 17, 2012.

  1. fire r a g e

    fire r a g e

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2011
    Messages:
    115
    This is my very first 5th Gen Team, so please bear with me.

    Espeon @ Light Clay
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Spe / 4 Def
    Nature: Timid
    Ability: Magic Bounce
    Moves:
    Reflect
    Calm Mind
    Baton Pass
    Psychic

    I decided to mix two of Espeon's standard smogon sets into one. My strategy, basically, is to Reflect the first turn, Calm Mind up, and pass to Cofagrigus (will explain later) for some almost impenetrable Defense and Special Defense. Psychic is there for some damage in case the strategy isn't viable for that battle. Now, for the EVs. I maxed 252 HP and Spe so he can have as much bulk as possible while outspeeding Landorus and Thundurus-T, two potential threats. I could run Stored Power over Psychic, but I am not always guaranteed two Calm Minds. Reflect allows him to boost his weaker Def for 8 turns, thanks to Light Clay.

    Heatran @ Leftovers
    EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 HP
    Nature: Modest
    Moves:
    Lava Plume
    Earth Power
    Protect
    Toxic

    As per tehy's suggestion, I swapped Empoleon for him. Empoleon wasn't really pulling its weight. Lava Plume is for that chance to burn, so it could surprise a physical sweeper by burning it. Earth Power gives it the ability to beat other Heatran. Protect+Toxic is for scouting and a bit of stalling.

    Cofagrigus @ Leftovers
    EVs: 252 HP / 136 Def / 120 SpD
    Nature: Bold
    Moves:
    Shadow Ball
    Trick Room
    Rest
    WoW

    Cofagrigus is my spin blocker, and pseudo-special attacker. I just evened out his Def and SpD while giving him max HP EVs.

    Ferrothorn @ CB
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
    IV: 0 Spe
    Nature: Brave
    Moves:
    Power Whip
    Gyro Ball
    Spikes
    Bulldoze

    He helps counter electric moves that plague my Empoleon. The 248 HP EVs allow it to maximize its bulkiness. 252 Atk EVs are given to help with its attacks. The remaining 8 EVs are given to SpD so Genesect doesn't get a SpA boost.


    Chansey @ Eviolitte
    Ability: Natural Cure
    Nature: Bold
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
    Moves:
    Wish
    Protect
    Heal Bell
    Seismec Toss

    This is the cleric for my team. As you noticed, Cofag has Rest, so Heal Bell wakes him up, as well as curing other ailments off my team. Wish+Protect acts as healing and stall, and helps my teammates with HP. Seismec Toss is there so it isn't completely shut down by Taunters.

    Donphan @ Leftovers
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
    Ability: Sturdy
    Nature: Adamant
    Moves:
    Rapid Spin
    EQ
    Head Smash
    Ice Shard

    Here is the spinblocker of my team. Max HP allows it to be even more of a tank, while Max Attack maximizes his damage output. 4 EVs in speed allows it to outspeed Chansey before it can attack. Rapid Spin is obviously the crux, spinning away SR and Spikes. Since I don't care much for recoil due to Chansey, I opted for Head Smash. Ice Shard for Dragons.

    I notice that my team is weak to Genesect and I lack a Toxic Spikes absorber. Any help is appreciated. Thanks!
  2. tehy

    tehy

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2010
    Messages:
    1,504
    A few things.

    Firstly, you yourself have noted you're weak to genesect. Why not just replace empoleon with heatran? You've got ferrothorn and chansey to handle water-type attacks in any case. I'm not really sure what function empoleon serves on your team-he's not really all that much better than other pokemon already on your team against most threats i can think of-he's really best against stuff like latios, but since you're packing surf, you can't even really force latios out. You can then put stealth rocks on donphan, or keep them on heatran. If you give him two attacks, he could also be a much better BP candidate from espeon.

    Wishtect+heal bell on chansey is kind of a problem, because it makes it incredible setup bait, so consider just changing that and either getting rid of heal bell, or moving to softboiled.

    CB ferrothorn is awesome. Is it really necessary? Only you can decide, but i sort of doubt so. Once the surprise is ruined, it's not hard to deal with.

    I can't really help you with the toxic spikes absorption-theoretically, heatran could just be tentacruel, but then you're still somewhat weak to genesect. Still, you've got a magic bouncer, a reliable spinner, and a natural cure heal bell user-they shouldn't be that big a deal.

    Edit:I thought about your team as i was doing the dishes, and i realised something:Espeon is really, really unnecessary, and maybe harmful, so i'm moving it to here. Espeon:
    Blocks hazards
    Sets up your other pokemon
    Absorbs status
    Gives genesect a free switch

    You've got one of the most reliable spinners in OU, only stopped by burns and lack of healing, and you've got heal bell and wish. All of your BP recipients have mono-stab coverage, both of which have immunities, and espeon itself even has mono-stab coverage with an immunity. The only pokemon here with healing is cofagrigus, with rest. The intended BP recipient has 2/3ds of the same weaknesses as espeon does, and the other 1/3rd is usually u-turn. You've got a natural cure heal bell chansey, allowing you to absorb status in multiple ways. Finally, genesect leads against espeon, then uses it as a springboard to u-turn endlessly at +1 attack, while espeon will be hard-presssed to do much back-at best it psychics or reflects on the switch-in, since even a double switch just leads to a coverage move or +1 u-turn to the face. It'd be nice as just a fast psychic for a fighting-type check, but it's got no investment in special attack, and you've got cofag, which even beats conkeldurr nicely with mummy.

    Bottom line:Espeon does basically nothing except let a pokemon you freely admit causes you problems lead off, then come in constantly to wear you down.
  3. fire r a g e

    fire r a g e

    Joined:
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    So who should I replace him with? I will replace Empoleon with Heatran, though.
  4. tehy

    tehy

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2010
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    I don't actually know who you should replace him with, because there are so many choices and i'm not sure what you want out of him. If you still want a fast psychic-type, you can go with latios-putting psychic on latios is sub-optimal, but not entirely out of the question, and you can put psyshock on it without much reduction of what you got out of espeon. Latias can also do this, as can starmie. If you just want a fast pokemon in general, the sky's the limit. If you want a baton passer... well, you need to change your team. Heatran, depending on his moveset, can be a better baton pass recipient, but even so he's still stopped cold by plenty. If your heart is set on it, then i'd run QD pass venomoth-the extra speed will help your recipients, and you can get in a nice sleep powder on something as well. It's also not total genesect bait-he can torch it with flamethrower, but if you EV it right he'll get an attack boost, and u-turn won't do that much.

    Edit:Like i said, then use venomoth if you really really want to pass those kinds of boosts, but honestly, consider just scrapping it-your recipients aren't good enough for BP to be a good strategy.
  5. fire r a g e

    fire r a g e

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    My Plan was to set up Reflect, then use Baton Pass. Depending on the match, also use Calm Mind. Then, pass to Cofag and set up TR, switch out accordingly. I don't know what I want out of him either. I just want to build a team that can hold its own in battle. I know nothing of strategy, even though I read a few guides.
  6. fire r a g e

    fire r a g e

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    It's been over a week since I've gotten help on this. Doesn't anyone have advice for me?
  7. Arcticblast

    Arcticblast LOL STAFF FAG
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    Remove Protect and Toxic on Heatran if you want to use Choice Scarf; instead, run Hidden Power Ice (or Grass) and Dragon Pulse. Replace Lava Plume with Fire Blast. In addition, run Stealth Rock on Donphan over Head Smash. Stealth Rock is one of the best moves in the game, and in almost all cases more than worth losing an attacking move for.
  8. fire r a g e

    fire r a g e

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    Sorry, that was meant to be Leftovers. I will make those changes, thought. Is there a big flaw in my team?
  9. tehy

    tehy

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    Well, i like the changes, but you've still got CM pass espeon. Again, you can't really BP to anyone who can really do much damage. Cofagrigus is annoying with a CM to offensive teams, but they can still take him down eventually, or trick him, while heatran can be taken down by anything faster with earthquake, or by terrakion. Just say no to CMpass, please.

    And you need Stealth rocks somewhere. You could put it on donphan, chansey, or heatran, but you need it somewhere.

    Something wrong with your team? Keldeo, taunt tornadus-T, virizion, NPlebi, SDscor, even lumDDnite should all sweep you or get rather close.
  10. TooMuchSugar

    TooMuchSugar

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    Funnily enough, Espeon can very reliably revenge kill keldeo, but as I agree that otherwise espeon's pretty useless, I'll second the suggestion of Latios/Latias. Both outspeed and OHKO Keldeo. With a scarf, either can also revenge Dragonite and Virizion (though virizion is almost never used, so I wouldn't worry too much about it).
    If you really want to sweep with cofragigus, then I recommend that you replace rest with calm mind (cofragigus can CM better than espeon anyway) and WoW with a second attacking move - smogon recommends HP fighting.
  11. fire r a g e

    fire r a g e

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    Hmm, it looks like there are BIG changes to be made to my team to make it viable in OU.

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