OU Defensive Team, 4th Gen

[Bengedoes]

ORIGINAL TEAM

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Hello RMT forum, today I am asking you to rate my OU defensive team. I haven't played Pokemon for a very long time, but right now I'm making a comeback. Don't want to play 5th gen yet because I don't know the pokes. Anyway let's get to the point.

When building this team, I was thinking about stall, because I like defensive play. Toxic Spikes was the first thing to come to my mind. From the few available choices, I picked Tentacruel, because it's a cool Pokemon I wanted to build my team around.

Tentacruel @ Leftovers
Ability: Liquid Ooze
Calm. Hp:252/Def:120/S.Def:136
~Toxic Spikes
~Rapid Spin
~Hydro Pump
~Knock Off

Explanation: I just copied the EV's from Smogon's Tentacruel analysis, because they seemed just fine to me. The only thing that's really going to need explanation is the move Knock Off. I picked this move because it has proven to be quite handy in stall vs. stall games. Besides, if I want to do any damage Hydro Pump is the best option anyway (instead of Sludge Bomb or any kind of Hidden Power).
The reason I use Hydro Pump over Surf, is the fact that the most common switch-in to this Tentacruel is Rotom-W, and Surf barely touches it, while Hydro Pump does.

Moving on to the next Pokemon. Tentacruel's weaknesses are Ground and Electric moves. But hey, one type at a time. Ground first. I quickly realised Zapdos would be the perfect teammate for Tentacruel, since he/she/it can take the Earthquakes/Earth Powers aimed at Tentacruel.
Plus, a SubRoost Zapdos is excellent at stalling out opponents while Toxic Spikes is on their field. So I added Zapdos to the team.

Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Bold. Hp:252/Def:112/S.Def:112/Spe:32
~Substitute
~Roost
~Thunderbolt
~Baton Pass

This Zapdos is definately going to need some explanation. First of all, the EVs. The Zapdos analysis told me to run Timid nature, 252 speed EV's if I was going to use the SubRoost set. But, after playing some matches, I realised sky-high speed is not necessary at all. Getting my defenses up helped me out a lot more, especially against Machamp.
Secondly, Baton Pass. You might think: what the heck? Well, I would have done the same. But you'd be surprised how useful Baton Pass is on this set. A very frequent scenario: I switch to Zapdos, opponent thinks 'my Vaporeon needs to GTFO of here' (this applies to much more Pokemon by the way: Vaporeon was the first thing that popped up in my mind). And I set up a substitute on the switch. If they went for Tyranitar or any other kind of Pokemon my Zapdos can't handle, Baton Pass makes sure my next Pokemon gets a safe switch-in. Very, very handy.

I can keep rambling forever about how useful Baton Pass is on this set, but I think you've gotten the point already. There is just one other thing I want to mention about the Tentacruel + Zapdos combo: we all know how weak Zapdos is to Stealth Rock, right? Tentacruel's Rapid Spin takes care of that.

So that's it for Zapdos. Moving on to the next Pokemon. What I still needed on the team was a Phazer, and something to put up Stealth Rock. Plus I needed to cover Tentacruel's Electric weakness. There's one perfect candidate for that, you may have guessed it already: Swampert.

Swampert @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
Relaxed. Hp:248/Def:216/S.Def:44
~Stealth Rock
~Roar
~Earthquake
~Ice Beam

The standard set. I already mentioned why I put this Pokemon on my team, and it does an excellent job. Well done Swampert.

After I made this defensive core, it was time to think about my lead. What should I use? I really had no idea. The only thing I knew was that this core had no real way to deal with opposing walls (mainly ones with self-healing and heal bell respectively) and bulky stat-uppers like Suicune. So I decided maybe my lead should try to take care of this. I was trying something random but it worked out pretty goddamn well. Here it is:

Smeargle @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Own Tempo
Jolly. Hp:4/Atk:252/Spe:252
~Spore
~Trick
~U-Turn
~Explosion

Something random. That's a pretty good description for this Pokemon. But it works surprisingly good. People don't expect it to be scarfed, people don't expect their Spiking Scarmory to get Tricked, people don't expect their Gyarados getting OHKO'ed by a Smeargle's Explosion after the first turn of Dragon Dance. When I'm in a lucky game, Smeargle can put 1 Pokemon to sleep for almost the entire game, screw a wall up with Trick, AND KO something with Explosion. That's half a team ruined by just one Smeargle. Yea that's right.

And now something about U-Turn: It's handy to use against Azelf leads (with Focus Sash). I strike first, deal like 30% of their max hp damage (yep Smeargle is stronger than you'd think) and switch to an appropiate counter. U-Turn is also useful when I have just used Trick, because it lets me switch after my opponent does :) so I can switch a counter in. Gives me a goddamn huge advantage.

The last two Pokemon are the ones I really want to get rated. I believe the core of Tentacruel, Zapdos and Swampert is strong, but I feel like the rest is lacking. I didn't put that much thought into the last two Pokemon, besides their typing being unique to my team. Another huge problem is the fact that I don't have any kind of setup (Calm Mind/Dragon Dance/Swords Dance) even though I would have plenty of opportunities to set up thanks to Zapdos Baton Passing Subs. Anyways, here goes:

Scizor @ Choice Band
Ability: Technician
Adamant. Hp:248/Atk:252/Spe:8
~U-Turn
~Bullet Punch
~Pursuit
~Superpower

Choice Band set. Bullet Punch is a helpful move since I didn't have any kind of revenge killer yet. Pursuit is nice against Rotoms who have been blocking my Rapid Spins and against Blissey/Celebi (and probably some more Pokemon as well). I don't really need the U-Turn on my team, but it hits hard. Superpower has only been used rarely.

I was thinking about maybe changing it to a Swords Dance set, but I'm really not sure. Hence I'm posting in this forum.

Heatran @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Flash Fire
Rash. Hp:4/S.Atk:252/Spe:252
~Flamethrower
~Earth Power
~Dragon Pulse
~Explosion

I absolutely love Heatran's typing on my team, but the problem is: I already got another Pokemon with Choice Scarf and Explosion. But Heatran is the only speedy offensive Pokemon I got, so replacing it would not be a good idea...

So yea, that was the team. I want you guys to mostly rate the last two (or three) pokes, since I'm quite sure my defensive core is strong enough. Obviously, tips about them are always welcome :) posting here for a reason after all. Anyway, thank you for reading my RMT!

~Bengedoes

EDIT: I forgot to mention Smeargle gets a lot of switch-in opportunities thanks to Zapdos.

NEW TEAM SO FAR:
I'm sorry, but I'm not going to give extended explanations about how this team is built up and how the Pokemon in it work together. I will do that when the team is finished.

Skarmory @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
Careful. Hp:252/S.Def:164/Spe:92
~Spikes
~Taunt
~Roost
~Brave Bird

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Stats:
Health: 334
Attack: 196
Defence: 316
Sp. Attack: 104
Sp. Defence: 238
Speed: 199

-Spikes lead
-Can taunt other defensive pokemon
-Roost allows me to switch in more often and stick around

Swampert @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
Relaxed. Hp:252/Def:216/S.Def:44
~Stealth Rock
~Roar
~Earthquake
~Ice Beam

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Stats:
Health: 403
Attack: 256
Defence: 297
Sp. Attack: 206
Sp. Defence: 227
Speed: 140

-Covers Tentacruel's and Skarmory's Electric weakness
-Reliable Pokemon for setting up Stealth Rock
-Roar for the extra residual damage.

Tentacruel @ Leftovers
Ability: Liquid Ooze
Calm. Hp:252/Def:120/S.Def:136
~Toxic Spikes
~Rapid Spin
~Surf
~Sludge Bomb

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Stats:
Health: 364
Attack: 158
Defence: 196
Sp. Attack: 196
Sp. Defence: 341
Speed: 236

-Can lay down Toxic Spikes and absorb them
-Rapid Spin enemy's entry hazards away

Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Timid. Hp:252/Def:4/Spe:252
~Substitute
~Roost
~Thunderbolt
~Hidden Power [Ice]

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Stats:
Health: 384
Attack: 193
Defence: 206
Sp. Attack: 286
Sp. Defence: 216
Speed: 328

-SubRoost to stall out the opponent, works very well with Toxic Spikes
-Thunderbolt and Hidden Power [Ice] give me excellent coverage

Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
Calm. Hp:252/S.Atk:4/S.Def:252
~Lava Plume
~Earth Power
~Protect
~Roar

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Stats:
Health: 386
Attack: 194
Defence: 248
Sp. Attack: 297
Sp. Defence: 342
Speed: 190

-Finally, a Substitute-Calm Mind Jirachi counter
-Heatran has good typing for my team

Rotom-W @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
Timid. Hp:252/S.Atk:40/Spe:216
~Thunderbolt
~Shadow Ball
~Hydro Pump
~Trick

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Stats:
Health: 304
Attack: 149
Defence: 250
Sp. Attack: 256
Sp. Defence: 250
Speed: 288

-Spinblocker
-Revenge killer

 

[Vitalise]

Good team, first; With your Smeargle set you could use a Spikes set, which will get you all 3 entry hazards. You could use Hp Grass over Explosion on the heatran. And you will need a Spinblocker, Choice Scarfed Rotom is a good idea or a Defensive Rotom-H can take the place very well. gl with the team

 

[2sly4u]

Hi Benegdoes. Decent team; I like the way you've mixed in a few offense-driven pokemon into your stall team. However, you have a few significant problems.

First off, you're missing arguably the single most important part of a Stall team: a Ghost-type. Without one, Rapid Spin easily removes all your hard-earned hazards, effectively ruining your whole strategy. If you're trying to make a stall team, you also need Spikes. Luckily for you, Frosslass can fill both of these roles splendidly. Use it over Smeargle.

Frosslass@Leftovers
Timid Nature, 248HP/228 Def/32 Spe
Taunt
Spikes
Ice Beam
Destiny Bond

Frosslass is the only pokemon that can Spin block and set up Spikes, effectively filling two roles at once. I was hesitant to give you the Lead set since you ideally want Frosslass around for the whole match. Therefore, I chose the Stall set EVs since you'll appreciate the extra bulk. Taunt gives you a fast way to stop setup sweepers and opposing stall, and also block enemy Taunts. Spikes have already been explained, and Ice Beam gives you STAB. Even with little speed investment, Frosslass is still very quick, making Destiny Bond a great option in the last slot.

Your other big problem is that most of your pokemon have no way to heal outside of Leftovers. If you're trying to win a Stall war, abundant HP is necessary for victory. You already have three fast pokemon in ScarfTran, Zapdos, and Frosslass. Therefore, Scizor is not necessary; I'd replace him with a support Togekiss.

Togekiss@Leftovers
Timid Nature, 252HP/20 Def/236 Spe
Wish
Air Slash
Heal Bell
Encore

This Togekiss is the ultimate team player, carrying arguably the top 3 support moves: Wish, Heal Bell, and Encore. Wish helps the rest of your team stay alive, while Heal Bell removes status, which is vital against opposing Stall. With Encore, you can get many free switches on setup or status moves, allowing you to set up yourself. Air Slash is there in case you get Taunted, and the Flinch rate doesn't hurt either. The EVs give you some serious bulk, but also enough Speed for Encore to be effective. If you opt to not use Encore, some Speed could be moved into your defenses.

Now for a few minor tweaks. Tentacruel really wants Surf over Hydro Pump. He's not there to deal damage, and if he's in a situation where you need him to attack, you really want to be sure he hits. The extra PP is also useful in the event of a stall war.

I would try the standard SubRoost Zapdos set again. Baton Pass has its uses, but HP Ice or Toxic are much better for stall. Max Speed is also all that allows him to beat many prominent threats, such as Gliscor (obviously when paired with HP Ice). The goal of SubRoost Zapdos is to PP stall with Pressure and Toxic damage; your Zapdos set can't effectively do either, and is basically using a worse U-Turn since you lose 25% of your health and do no damage to your opponent (and Zapdos learns U-Turn anyways). If you'd rather have a scouting pokemon, Jolteon is a better choice since he's a more potent offensive threat and can cause more switches. However, this is stall so I think you're better off staying with SubRoost.

I hope that helps. Good luck!

 

[Bengedoes]

First off, you're missing arguably the single most important part of a Stall team: a Ghost-type. Without one, Rapid Spin easily removes all your hard-earned hazards, effectively ruining your whole strategy. If you're trying to make a stall team, you also need Spikes. Luckily for you, Frosslass can fill both of these roles splendidly. Use it over Smeargle.

Wow, now that's the kind of advice I was looking for. Froslass seems an awesome addition to my team indeed. It was pretty stupid I didn't have a ghost-type in the first place.

Your other big problem is that most of your pokemon have no way to heal outside of Leftovers.

Yep, this is very true. Swampert and Tentacruel have been struggling to stay alive in some games. I was already thinking about putting a Pokemon with Wish in my team, just didn't know where to fit it in. Heal Bell, same story.

So Togekiss seems like a good choice, but if I replace Scizor, how do I deal with Blissey then? Heatran can't do jack, and neither can Zapdos/Frosslass/Tentacruel. Swampert's attack is simply not high enough to kill Blissey with Earthquake, and she can remove Poison with Heal Bell. Any advice on this? I mean I know I can encore/taunt, but then I think I still won't be able to take it down.

Now for a few minor tweaks. Tentacruel really wants Surf over Hydro Pump. He's not there to deal damage, and if he's in a situation where you need him to attack, you really want to be sure he hits. The extra PP is also useful in the event of a stall war.

I guess you are a more experienced player than me, so whatever. Surf will still OHKO Inerfape and Heatran (not sure about the Heatran) if I'm not mistaken, so it should be okay.

I would try the standard SubRoost Zapdos set again. Baton Pass has its uses, but HP Ice or Toxic are much better for stall. Max Speed is also all that allows him to beat many prominent threats, such as Gliscor (obviously when paired with HP Ice).

I have indeed had problems with Gliscor, but also with Breloom and Celebi. Speaking of Breloom, max speed WILL make it easy for my Zapdos to deal with him. And wait a minute, HP Ice will also help me against Dragons like Flygon and Dragonite. Hah, this is really an eye-opener.

Thanks a lot for your reply, the changes in the team have been made. Hopefully you have some tips about what to do against Blissey.

~Bengedoes

 

[2sly4u]

Thanks a lot for your reply, the changes in the team have been made. Hopefully you have some tips about what to do against Blissey.

~Bengedoes

Blissey is actually pretty easy for you, as long as you can keep Toxic Spikes on the field. Once they reveal a Blissey, keep Tentacruel alive at all costs so you can put them back down if they get removed. Aromatherapy versions usually don't carry Toxic, so she can be easily outstalled by Zapdos thanks to Pressure. It's not the fastest method, but she'll fall eventually. Heatran can also Explode as a last resort. Most Blissey sets are completely shut down by Frosslass's Taunt and Fighting immunity as well. She wouldn't be able to defeat the pink menace, but can force her out and set up on her.

 

[Bengedoes]

Blissey is actually pretty easy for you, as long as you can keep Toxic Spikes on the field. Once they reveal a Blissey, keep Tentacruel alive at all costs so you can put them back down if they get removed. Aromatherapy versions usually don't carry Toxic, so she can be easily outstalled by Zapdos thanks to Pressure. It's not the fastest method, but she'll fall eventually. Heatran can also Explode as a last resort. Most Blissey sets are completely shut down by Frosslass's Taunt and Fighting immunity as well. She wouldn't be able to defeat the pink menace, but can force her out and set up on her.

Kinda sucks it's going to take me forever to take a Blissey down, but whatever. I guess that's what I deserve for playing a stall team. I haven't had time yet to test the new team and get used to it, so I can't really say yet if the changes you suggested are any good. I will probably get to test it in the near future.

BTW: :happybrain: what the hell is this smiley? :P

 

[Bengedoes]

Ok now I've tested a few games, and I have to say: Togekiss' typing is horrible on my team, and Rotoms (especially rest-talkers) are a complete nightmare. If it's the one with Hydro Pump, there's nothing I can do to take it down (Heatran cannot switch in). Togekiss can't do anything since she's weak to Thunderbolt and Rotom resists Flying, Zapdos can't do jack either (Hidden Power removing 18% of his health) and he is immune to Toxic Spikes. Swampert's Ice Beam also does not threaten him at all. I need a counter to Rotom, or else this team will simply not work.

And I'm disappointed in Frosslass' functionality as a spinblocker: I may block Starmie's Rapid Spin, but there's nothing I can do back while Starmie can destroy me with Surf, to which I do NOT have a safe switch-in.

In short: having problems with Starmie and Rotom, need some advice.

 

[Harlot]

Scarf Tyranitar over Smeargle should remove the Rotom weakness.

The set is:

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Tyranitar (M) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Crunch
- Stone Edge
- Pursuit
- Superpower

 

[Bengedoes]

Scarf Tyranitar over Smeargle should remove the Rotom weakness.

You haven't read the whole thread, Smeargle has already been replaced by Frosslass. But I might replace Scarf Heatran with Scarf Tyranitar to solve this problem (even though most of my pokes would hate the sandstorm)

 

[2sly4u]

Ok now I've tested a few games, and I have to say: Togekiss' typing is horrible on my team, and Rotoms (especially rest-talkers) are a complete nightmare. If it's the one with Hydro Pump, there's nothing I can do to take it down (Heatran cannot switch in). Togekiss can't do anything since she's weak to Thunderbolt and Rotom resists Flying, Zapdos can't do jack either (Hidden Power removing 18% of his health) and he is immune to Toxic Spikes. Swampert's Ice Beam also does not threaten him at all. I need a counter to Rotom, or else this team will simply not work.

And I'm disappointed in Frosslass' functionality as a spinblocker: I may block Starmie's Rapid Spin, but there's nothing I can do back while Starmie can destroy me with Surf, to which I do NOT have a safe switch-in.

In short: having problems with Starmie and Rotom, need some advice.

Swampert should be your primary Rotom switch-in. Another option would be to give Frosslass Shadow Ball over Destiny Bond, which should be enough to prevent Rotom and Starmie from switching in with imputiny. If Togekiss really isn't working for you, you could always just use Blissey.

Blissey@Leftovers
Wish
Protect
Toxic
Seismic Toss

Basically, this set just runs around spreading status and passing Wishes. Wish is for healing yourself and others, while Toxic is your main status. Protect works well with Wish and Toxic, biding you time and giving you more leftovers recovery. Seismic Toss lets you pick off weakened foes. If you still want a Cleric, heal Bell could potentially be used over Protect. Blissey gives you a great Special Wall, but also makes it so you only have one Ground immunity. Besides that, she should be great.

Also, it helps other raters if you edit your main post to show your team as it is now.

 

[Bengedoes]

Swampert should be your primary Rotom switch-in.

Dude, why? Swampert cannot touch him: Ice Beam does almost no damage at all, and Rotom is immune to Earthquake. While they can will-o-wisp me and Rotom-W can fire off Hydro Pumps at me. Why on earth should I switch Swampert in on Rotom?? Maybe if I use Waterfall, but even then I doubt I will be able to do much.

Another option would be to give Frosslass Shadow Ball over Destiny Bond, which should be enough to prevent Rotom and Starmie from switching in with imputiny.

Destiny Bond has proven to be quite useful sometimes, I'd rather replace Ice Beam. I guess I'll test a few games to see what are the best options.

Also, it helps other raters if you edit your main post to show your team as it is now.

Of course, done it already.

 

[bubbly]

Oh jeez I'm gonna have to rate this now.

First of all, you obviously want a Spikes abusing team. There are a few main ways you can: full stall (boring), balanced (using a combination of bulky offense with hazard support), or spikes rush (basically, you get the Spikes as quickly as possible and then abuse them with phazers and so on).

I'm not entirely sure which direction you want to go in, so to be safe I think I'll go with a balanced kind of team structure. Lots of your pokemon synergise really poorly (such as Blissey and Tentacruel on the one hand, and then ScarfTran and Froslass on the other). Although this may be partly due to some changes you've made on other raters suggestions...

Anyway. Your team has a lot of weaknesses to offensive pokemon, but in particular your ability to put down hazards and then block Rapid Spin is really low. I'd like to keep the Zapdos + Heatran core since it is really one of the most effective defensive combinations for abusing hazards. So, start with Zapdos + Heatran.

Second is finding a hazards user. I usually like to spread Spikes, Toxic Spikes and Rapid Spin over 2 or 3 pokemon but in this case, Forretress will 1. make the team easier to build :), and secondly its lack of healing shouldn't really matter since you're just looking to get a few layers up fairly early on. So, team is: Forretress+Zapdos+Heatran.

Rapid Spin blocker is pretty necessary. There are really two ways to go about his; on an offensive team you can use something like Gengar which can't beat LO Starmie but use a fast Pursuiter or U-turner; or you can just use Scarf Rotom-A / Sucker Punch Spiritomb. Rotom's generally better and it covers water types for your Zapdos so you can keep it primarily as an offensive piece.

There's your four main members - Heatran, Zapdos, Forretress, Rotom-W (washer form is generally best since Heatran + Tyranitar are everywhere). At this point, your offensive synergy is pretty much complete but you need to cover any remaining team weaknesses - in this case, Tyranitar, Infernape, Heatran, maybe other Fighting types like Machamp/Breloom. You also still need to find a Stealth Rock user for your team.
Arguably the best way to cover these problem pokes is to use Hippowdon + Gyarados (one of the most common stall duo's), and they also give you two additional pseudo hazers to rack up Spikes damage.

So your team would be:

Forretress @ Leftovers, Careful nature
252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpDef
-Spikes
-Toxic Spikes
-Payback
-Rapid Spin

Zapdos @ Leftovers, Calm nature
248 HP / 230 Spdef / 32 Speed (although if you like Timid + 192 or more speed is also good)
-Substitute
-Roost
-Thunderbolt
-Roar

Heatran @ Leftovers, Calm nature
252 HP / 212 Spdef / 44 Spe
-Taunt
-Roar
-Lava Plume
-Earth Power

Gyarados @ Leftovers, Impish nature
252 HP / 80 Def / 176 SpDef
-Waterfall
-Roar
-Rest
-Sleep Talk

Hippowdon @ Leftovers, Careful nature
252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpDef
-Earthquake
-Roar
-Stealth Rock
-Slack Off

Rotom-W @ Choice Scarf, Timid nature
252 HP / 40 SpAtk / 216 Spe
-Thunderbolt
-Trick
-Hydro Pump
-Shadow Ball

Obviously this is a pretty drastic change to your team but I've used pretty much the exact form of this team before and it is a really strong hazard abusing set up (plus you said you were unsure about so many members...). Hopefully you like my suggestions :)

 

[george182]

Firstly Hp ice doesn't require a speed IV of 30, you can use a speed IV of 31. If your using PO scroll through the list to see which set of IVs for HP ice you prefer, but having max speed on Zapdos is extremely useful. If you keep your speed IV of 30 then the next fastest thing you want to outspeed is Gliscor, who maxes out at 317 speed. So you only need 318 speed, 318 isn't possible because you have a +speed nature, so 319 speed is the minimum.

As for the team, I recomend using Skarmory over Frosslass. Skarmory is a superior spikes user, with the bulk to set up multiple layers and rack up damage with whirlwind. With a sp.def you now have a counter to sub split Gengar. Skarmory can also use taunt to help against stall and for other leads. Skarmory also gives you the nice Swamp/Skarm combo which works nicely.

Skarmory @ Leftovers
Careful Nature
252hp/252sp.def/4speed
- Spikes
- Roost
- Brave Bird/Taunt
- Whirlwind/Taunt

Now if you manage to get 6 layers of entry hazards down you don't want them removed by a 1 turn damaging attack. So you need a spin blocker.

As you also need a Rotom counter I recomend using Spiritomb over your Heatran. There a plenty of options, a trick choice band set would help against trick users (who you can pursuit as they are locked into trick) and it helps against stall. While a rest talk set would help spiritomb stay alive longer. I recommend a rest talk set of:

Spiritomb @ Leftovers
Calm
252hp/4 Def/252 Sp.def
- Dark Pulse
- Wil-O-Wisp
- Rest
- Sleep Talk


With Leftovers this set will normally avoid a 2hko from Offensive Starmies Hydro Pump (max 56.6%) if its at full Hp, and always avoids a 3hko from defensive Starmie. The only other thing is your Blissey set, wish support Blissey is an overrated pile of junk (a good player will make it very difficult to heal an injured pokemon). Heal bell is very useful allowing you to wake up a resting pokemon and allows you to be aggressive against pokemon using status attacks. With Heal bell I recommend using Rest on Tentacruel over Sludge Bomb. I also much prefer Max defence Tentacruel as it allows you to take Close Combat from Infernape and Lucario much easier.

Tentacruel @ Leftovers
Calm
252hp/252def/4sp.def
- Surf
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic Spikes
- Rest

 

[Bengedoes]

Ok this is @ bubbly: I think the team you listed there is pretty solid, but it's...not my team. I mean those are not changes to my team, that is a whole new team. So I'm sorry, but that's not really what I was looking for.

And now @ george182:

Firstly Hp ice doesn't require a speed IV of 30, you can use a speed IV of 31. If your using PO scroll through the list to see which set of IVs for HP ice you prefer, but having max speed on Zapdos is extremely useful.

Haha, you are right. I missed that :P thanks a lot for that info though.

As for the team, I recomend using Skarmory over Frosslass. Skarmory is a superior spikes user, with the bulk to set up multiple layers and rack up damage with whirlwind. With a sp.def you now have a counter to sub split Gengar. Skarmory can also use taunt to help against stall and for other leads. Skarmory also gives you the nice Swamp/Skarm combo which works nicely.

Yes, the Frosslass lead wasn't very strong. I'll try this one instead.

As you also need a Rotom counter I recomend using Spiritomb over your Heatran.

Oh man, I BADLY need a Rotom counter. RestTalk seems like the better choice, since I won't like getting burnt by Rotom's Will-O-Wisp. Besides, I didn't have a status absorber yet.

With Heal bell I recommend using Rest on Tentacruel over Sludge Bomb. I also much prefer Max defence Tentacruel as it allows you to take Close Combat from Infernape and Lucario much easier.

Rest seems a bit of an odd choice, but I don't really need Sludge Bomb so I guess I will give it a try. Max defence however is absolutely not neccesary, Infernape's Close Combat doesn't do much with my current EV spread, while Tentacruel forces him to switch because of Surf OHKO'ing him. Besides, if he loses the Sp.Def EV's he will be a jack of all trades, master of none. So no, I'm not maxing out his defence.

 

[bubbly]

Hmmm. Maybe I did go kind of overboard on my last rate :)

George's suggestions are pretty good. Skarmory > Froslass for sure, except use a 252 HP / 164 SpDef / 92 Speed with Careful nature spread, using Taunt > Brave Bird. This lets you work better as a lead against Hippowdon, Swampert etc and it also covers the stall weaknesses by outspeeding up to RestTalk Gyarados and preventing it from moving.

On the other hand, I don't really agree with George about the Spiritomb. If you use a specially defensive Heatran instead of your ScarfTran you have one of the best Rotom checks already. I've used Spiritomb before for sure but it tends to turn into set up bait and accomplishes pretty little besides spinblocking. In addition, going with this would remove the Heatran + Zapdos combo which is a major strength of the team.

A spinblocker is obviously preferable so you can run Scarf Rotom-W over Blissey (I'm suggesting this because you don't seem really sure about Blissey, and specially defensive Heatran covers nearly everything Blissey does except Water types - which Rotom and Zapdos will cover).

So I'd say go with Skarmory > Froslass, Choice Scarf Rotom-W > Blissey, and use a specially defensive Heatran set (Lava Plume, Roar, Rest, Sleep Talk). Good luck again :)

 

[Bengedoes]

On the other hand, I don't really agree with George about the Spiritomb. If you use a specially defensive Heatran instead of your ScarfTran you have one of the best Rotom checks already. I've used Spiritomb before for sure but it tends to turn into set up bait and accomplishes pretty little besides spinblocking. In addition, going with this would remove the Heatran + Zapdos combo which is a major strength of the team.

The Spiritomb sucked indeed. Besides, when I used it to block Rapid Spin from Foretress, he just started setting up Spikes on me while I can't hurt him with Dark Pulse -_-' so kinda useless.

A spinblocker is obviously preferable so you can run Scarf Rotom-W over Blissey (I'm suggesting this because you don't seem really sure about Blissey, and specially defensive Heatran covers nearly everything Blissey does except Water types - which Rotom and Zapdos will cover).

Ok but one question: why Choice Scarf instead of a defensive variant? After all I don't want to lose my spinblocker.

Done editing original post, to all the raters: rate the team listed in the original post.

 

[Captains]

NEW TEAM SO FAR:

Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Timid. Hp:252/Def:4/Spe:252
~Substitute
~Roost
~Thunderbolt
~Hidden Power [Ice]

-SubRoost to stall out the opponent, works very well with Toxic Spikes
-Thunderbolt and Hidden Power [Ice] give me excellent coverage

Well, Well, Well. Finally someone looking for defensive Zapdos. I've run one before, and can suggest some edits to this one.

Run:
Bold
Max HP EV's, and enough to hit 300 Defense Lv. 100, the rest into Speed.
-this is because it's naturally fast and specially offensive.
Run Hidden Power Grass
-everyone sees Zapdos and assumes HP Ice, for both sweeper and defensive.

 

[bubbly]

Bengedoes, Scarf Rotom-W with Timid nature, 252 HP / 40 Spatk / 216 Speed, is mostly necessary on defensive teams. It can beat LO Starmie after the switchin unlike non-scarfed versions (which is pretty huge) and also outspeeds +1 Gyarados. The team you've updated looks really nice but if you don't go with the Scarf Starmie outspeeds and OHKO's / 2HKO's everything. Something like Swords Dance Infernape could also just outpower your checks to it and you'd have nothing faster to revenge it with.

 

[Bengedoes]

Bengedoes, Scarf Rotom-W with Timid nature, 252 HP / 40 Spatk / 216 Speed, is mostly necessary on defensive teams. It can beat LO Starmie after the switchin unlike non-scarfed versions (which is pretty huge) and also outspeeds +1 Gyarados. The team you've updated looks really nice but if you don't go with the Scarf Starmie outspeeds and OHKO's / 2HKO's everything. Something like Swords Dance Infernape could also just outpower your checks to it and you'd have nothing faster to revenge it with.

Alright I'll use that one. I had a choiced version already but it had another EV spread.

Well, Well, Well. Finally someone looking for defensive Zapdos. I've run one before, and can suggest some edits to this one.

Run:
Bold
Max HP EV's, and enough to hit 300 Defense Lv. 100, the rest into Speed.
-this is because it's naturally fast and specially offensive.
Run Hidden Power Grass
-everyone sees Zapdos and assumes HP Ice, for both sweeper and defensive.

No no, max speed is very very handy for a SubRoost set, and I really need Hidden Power [Ice] to hit Grass-types like Celebi and Shaymin, dragons and Gliscor. While Hidden Power [Grass] is only going to take care of Swampert...but SubRoost Zapdos can just outstall Swampert with Toxic Spikes on the field. So I'm keeping this Zapdos the way it currently is.