1. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.
  2. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!

[OU]Dirty Deeds Done Dirt Cheap

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Rex Exploder, Dec 4, 2012.

  1. Rex Exploder

    Rex Exploder

    Joined:
    May 30, 2011
    Messages:
    22
    .::Dirty Deeds Done Dirt Cheap::.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [youtube]Z_t5GPbp5IY[/youtube]
    Because everyone enjoys music
    [​IMG]

    I'm the kind of guy that comes and go about the metagame. I realy never spend prolongated period of times playing, so I sorta go on and off the competitive scene. Sometime ago I decided to play a little, and used one old Rain Team. However, I grew tired of it. Thus decided, to play with the Sun, a weather which I never really used much in Gen 5 except in Ubers (It was so Cash)

    This of course means I'm new when it comes to Sun, so bear with me
    [​IMG]
    .::Team Development::.

    Show Hide
    I wanted Sun! In OU! So Ninetales
    [​IMG]

    Next, I need stuff able to Abuse the sun. Along Came Darmanitan and Venusaur
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    With all dat Fire, I needed a supporter, able to put entry hazards and blow them away- Forretress wa the answer

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Right now I was afraid of Special-Based Dragons. To keep them in check (as well as Therians), along came Mamowsine

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Finally, one Pokémon left. As a recomendation from a friend, along came Thundurus-T

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Darmanitan was however, being underwheling. Died too fast, couldn0t do nothing against Bulky Waters, some lack of power...Victini was the answer
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]


    [​IMG]
    .::Overview::
    .::[​IMG].[​IMG].[​IMG].[​IMG].[​IMG].[​IMG]::.
    [​IMG]
    .::In Depth::.
    [​IMG]
    .::Namesake::.
    Show Hide
    [​IMG]

    .::K. Queen::.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 252 HP/120 SpD /136 Spe
    Nature: Calm (+SpD -Atk)
    ~[​IMG]Flamethrower
    ~[​IMG]Will-O-Wisp
    ~[​IMG]Substitute
    ~[​IMG]Hypnosis

    Show Hide
    Ninetales is a pretty Pokémon. It's all elegant and stuff. It's a shame, to that her stats are not as pretty as her appearance

    Anyway, Ninetales is not an ofensive behemoth like Tyranitar, so there is really no point into making her go all-out. Also, as my weather inducer, it's advantageous for me that she can survive for a long time.

    Air Baloon gives Ninetales a free immunity to EQ and allows her to switch into some choiced Mon with EQ in case I lose a weather war. Kinda miss the Leftovers, but it's a necessary evil.

    Will-O-Wisp shuts Down physical threats like Scizor and Hypnosis can create a window of opportunity for anoter member to pull a sweep. Flamethrower so she is not complete Taunt bait, and even without investment, it deals some decent damage with Sun Boost

    [​IMG]
    .::Namesake::.
    Show Hide
    [​IMG]

    .::Green Day::.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 4 HP/252 SpA/252 Spe
    Nature: Modest (+SpA -Atk)
    ~[​IMG]Growth
    ~[​IMG]Giga Drain
    ~[​IMG]Hidden Power
    ~[​IMG]Sleep Powder

    Show Hide
    I am the type of guy who picked Bulbasaur as a Kid, because I love this guy. And gen V made him awesome.

    Sleep Powder although unreliable, it gives me at least one free turn everytime it hits to use growth. After one usage Venusaur is already fearsome.

    HP Fire burns steels and Giga Drain recovers the damage. This set makes Venusaur susceptible to being countered by Fire-Types (Volcarona, especially), So I might replace Sleep Powder with Sludge Bomb
    ´
    [​IMG]
    .::NameSake::.
    Show Hide
    [​IMG]

    .::GER::.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Trait: Victory Star
    EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
    Nature: Jolly (+Spe -SpA)
    ~[​IMG]V-Create
    ~[​IMG]Bolt Strike
    ~[​IMG]U-turn
    ~[​IMG]Brick Break

    Show Hide
    This is the cutest nuke ever. V-Create is almost everything I use, because that's pretty much all I need. Almost nothing can take a V-Create, and Bulky Water are Bolt Strike'd to oblivion.

    Brick Break provides an extra punch for Heatran, and U-turn allows Victini to scout and nail Latias.

    Not much else to say. This things is awesome. Truly a Star of Victory

    [​IMG]
    .::Namesake::.
    Show Hide
    [​IMG]

    .::Crazy D::.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP/176 Atk/80 Spe (0 IVs Spe)
    Nature: Relaxed (+Def -Spe)
    ~[​IMG]Spikes
    ~[​IMG]Stealth Rock
    ~[​IMG]Rapid Spin
    ~[​IMG]Gyro Ball

    Show Hide
    This is my utility mon. His purpose is to come into something, take anything thrown at him, et-up hazards, spin the enemy's hazard away and deal some Damage with Gyro Ball (IVs and Nature are there for the purpose of making Gyro Ball deal max damage)

    Not much else to say, he is a relaxed guy who can take a beating and supports the team in his own way.

    [​IMG]
    .::Namesake::.
    Show Hide
    [​IMG]

    .::Cream::.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Trait: Thick Fat
    EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
    Nature: Jolly (+Spe -SpA)
    ~[​IMG]Ice Shard
    ~[​IMG]Icicle Crash
    ~[​IMG]Earthquake
    ~[​IMG]Stone Edge

    Show Hide
    The Dragon Killer. Access to Good bulk allows him to come on field and start dishing out pain.

    Ice Shard kills Salamence and Dragonite and garchomp, Icicle Crash nails anything slower than him, and the good old Quakeedge Coverage to hit most things.

    He is a core member of the team as he allows me to deal with plenty of threats. Kinda wish I could fit in Superpower, but his current self looks good.

    [​IMG]
    .::Namesake::.
    Show Hide
    [​IMG]

    .::S.Platinum::.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Trait: Volt Absorb
    EVs: 4 HP/252 SpA/252 Spe
    Nature: Modest (+SpA -Atk)
    ~[​IMG]Thunderbolt
    ~[​IMG]Hidden Power
    ~[​IMG]Focus Blast
    ~[​IMG]Agility

    Show Hide
    The final member, Thundurus-T!

    It was sorta tacked in, but so far, it seems to work well. Anyway, Agility makes Thundurus-T hyper fast and thus hard to revenge kill.

    The other Three attacks exist for the purpose of covering almost every threat. Expert Belt because I have too many Life Orbs already, and besides, I can always bluff a Choice Item before setting up.

    [​IMG]
    .::Synergy Chart::.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    .::One Last Glance::.
    .::[​IMG].[​IMG].[​IMG].[​IMG].[​IMG].[​IMG]::.
    [​IMG]
    .::THE END::.
  2. Nutrix

    Nutrix

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2012
    Messages:
    44
    You don't really need anything especially to take on Techloom, but I usually find more utility for Sleep Talk the Brick Break on Victini, especially when it's Banded. It's nice to have something that can be sleep fodder without being useless, and if you predict Tyranitar/Heatran/whatever to come in, you can just U-turn out to Mamoswine or something.
  3. superstar

    superstar

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2011
    Messages:
    320
    I'd disagree with that, being able to hit Heatran hard is Victini's main draw over other fire-types. (cough Volc cough). Also, if he changes this, only one poke can really deal with Heatran.

    I'll do a more in-depth rate if I have time later, but I'd highly reccomend using Stealth Rock over Stone Edge on Mamoswine. Rock doesn't hit anything Ice/Ground can't. This frees up a slot on Forretress for Volt Switch to give momentum. More importantly, however, it takes a lot of the pressure off Forretress, which is now responsible for all your hazards AND spinning AND defensive duties.

    I'm skeptical of your Ninetales set. I'm not sure why you are using Sub, since you can't do much to your common switch ins (Toed, Ttar, etc.), and are basically just losing 18% of your HP for nothing. I'd recommend changing Sub to Sunny Day to punish TTar and Toed switch-ins and Hypnosis to a more reliable move like Solarbeam for a weakened TTar and Toed after you use Sunny Day, Toxic to nail Toed on the switch, HP Ice to hit dragons, or HP Rock to nail Volcarona. Pain Split would also be good for healing

    Good luck!
  4. PureQuestion

    PureQuestion

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Messages:
    206
    Shouldn't your synergy chart account for Mamoswine's thick fat? You have it listed as weak to fire and neutral to ice, when after Thick Fat it is neutral and resistant, respectively.
  5. BlankZero

    BlankZero
    is a Tutor

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2012
    Messages:
    1,837
    I would change Mamo to

    -ice shard
    -icicle spear
    -earthquake
    -superpower

    This allows it to break substitutes on subtox Gliscor and even whimsicott. It also hits like a truck by itself with a bit of luck.

    Also, run Jolly to beat all nonscarfed Breloom.
  6. CyberOdin

    CyberOdin

    Joined:
    May 29, 2012
    Messages:
    566
    The team is good, I suggest that you equip victini Choice Scarf because Latias Calm Mind can you sweep all the team, your only cards are Mamoswine but she holds 1 Ice Shark, so the more help you Victini against same, Heatran also gives problems substitute good is one of the most critical points for the teams this pokemon so sunny majorities in many Dugtrios time, also a team with Tyranitar can bother you, try to change the set only victini and if what I said before giving you problems entering the Dugtrio by Thunudrus-t only as evidence. luck
  7. dragonuser

    dragonuser Today, tomorrow, and always with a frozen heart
    is a Tutoris an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winner
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2011
    Messages:
    1,979
    Hey there,

    This team looks pretty cool, but there are some noticeable weaknesses. Terrakion, Latias, and Tornadus-T all look threatening to face. Terrakion can spam CB Stone Edges freely, and heavily damage your team. Latias can switch into most of your team and get a KO each time if it predicts correctly. Tornadus-T, similarly, can be really annoying if the weather is rain rather than sun (whether you lose weather war, or are in the midst of it).

    To help with this, I think running a Specially Defensive Zapdos > Thundurus-T would work really well. Zapdos is a fantastic Tornadus-T counter in this metagame (and counter to rain in general), and is a pretty decent check to Lati@s. Harder counters to Lati@s seem to mess with your synergy more, so Zapdos seems to be the best answer. I would also heavily recommend using Sludge Bomb > Sleep Powder on Venusaur. This gives you another way to break through Lati@s, while increasing Venusaurs sweeping capabilities. I would also use Timid > Modest on Venusaur just to guarantee that you outspeed Pokemon like Scarf Latios and +2 Cloyster. The power loss is somewhat noticeable, but the utility in always outspeeding those threats is invaluable.

    Ok so those changes help to cover everything but your Terrakion weakness. This is arguably the toughest thing to fix in your team, and it probably can be beaten with smart playing. However I think that running Donphan > Forretress is probably the best option. While this does take away your main Physical Dragon-Type resist, the second a Dragon-Type clicks outrage they are dooming themself to Mamoswine. Not to mention that Donphan still has respectable Physical bulk. Donphan gives you a pretty reliable answer to Terrakion and is a solid, but underrated, Pokemon in this metagame.

    Some other somewhat minor moveset changes would be Leftovers > Air Balloon and Protect > Substitute on Ninetales. Leftovers really helps Ninetales longevity, and Protect furthers this. Protect isn't nearly as necessary as Leftovers though, so if you really like Substitute feel free to keep it. Anyways, cool team gl.

    sets (open)

    [​IMG]
    Zapdos @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 248 HP / 12 Def / 228 SDef / 20 Spd
    Calm Nature
    - Volt Switch
    - Roost
    - Heat Wave
    - Hidden Power [Ice]

    [​IMG]
    Donphan (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Earthquake
    - Stealth Rock
    - Rapid Spin
    - Ice Shard

  8. chimpact

    chimpact fire nation
    is an official Team Rateris a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2006
    Messages:
    1,684
    The extra power from going Modest on Venusaur is not going to help you out that much. You really need Timid to outspeed Scarf Base 108/110 speed pokemon. It's also helpful to outspeed stuff like Mamoswine outside of sun.

    Additionally, going dual status on Ninetales is not a bad idea, but Hypnosis has shaky accuracy and could always conflict with will o wisp. Additionally, substitute is an odd option on a weather starter. Ninetales has little offensive presence and that extra 25% you take from substitute could allow your opponent to win the weather war faster, especially without leftovers.

    Spikes on Forretress with no spinblocker is not the best idea. it's not hard to for spinners to come in on forretress and force it to set up rocks again. I would replace it for Volt Switch so that you can get a mini volt turn core with that and victini.

    I would also immediately replace Thundurus. Although he matches up well against rain, he doesnt really help venusaur take out pokemon that could be problematic for it. If you replace it with a scarfed Landorus-I you have a revenge killer for Volcarona which is very problematic to your sun team.

    Landorus set (open)

    Landorus (M) @ Choice Scarf Trait: Sand Force
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Earthquake
    - U-turn
    - Stone Edge
    - Hidden Power [Ice]


    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
  9. The Unlucky one

    The Unlucky one

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2012
    Messages:
    926
    Nice team, really. I have ran a team that is incredibly similar to yours with only a few moveset/ 1 poke change. I'm gonna start of by saying that I don't like Forretress. Spinners are important to the metagame but it just kills all sense of momentum that your team can get so nicely. Chimpakt has mentioned that Volt Switch> Spikes on Forretress. I believe that we should get rid of Forretress all together and replace it with another spinner called Donphan. If all you need is Rocks and Rapid spin, i see no reason to not use Donphan. The sun gets rid of the water weakness so Donphan seems to fit your team better. Also, it can run Head Smash/Stone Edge to check Volcarona if sturdy is intact.

    Next, you have no pokemon which reliably helps you win the weather war. Your team really can threaten Rain and Sand. However, you can't really win the weather war. You have backup plans against Rain and Sand in the form of Thundurus-T and Mamoswine; but you cant win the weather war. Venusaur is too reliant upon the sun for my taste. I would run a poke that is more threatening to Sand/Rain and is less reliant on Sun. This is why I recommend Lilligant. This might seem a little weird but Lilligant is a sweeper that is less reliant on the weather but still benefits from sun immensely. Not to mention, it can run a modest nature without the fear of Scarf Terrakion outspeeding it in the sun.

    Lastly, if you wanna give a hell of a time for Volcarona, Jolly+Scarf on Victini helps it outspeed and OHKO Volc.

    Show Hide
    tl;dr

    Forretress --> Donphan
    Venusaur --> Lilligant
    Victini --> Jolly Scarf variant (Optional)


    Show Hide
    Sets:
    [​IMG]
    Lilligant (F) @ Wide Lens
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 156 HP / 156 SAtk / 196 Spd
    Modest Nature
    - Sleep Powder
    - Giga Drain
    - Quiver Dance
    - Hidden Power [Fire]

    [​IMG]

    Donphan @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 Spd
    Impish Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Rapid Spin
    - Stone Edge
    - Earthquake
  10. Derpinator

    Derpinator

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2012
    Messages:
    173
    I don't know why and I don't like it but Marriland updated their team builder and left out some way to take into account abilities. If there is a way, it isn't obvious and can't be found with a bit of looking.
  11. BKC

    BKC
    is a Tutoris an official Team Rateris a Smogon IRC AOPis a Forum Moderatoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Past WCoP Winneris the Smogon Tour Season 16 Champion
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 22, 2010
    Messages:
    3,453
    You really want Timid on Venusaur, the extra power you gain with Modest isn't that big a deal since you're doubling your Special Attack and you've got Life Orb on top of that. The extra Speed from Timid, on the other hand, is crucial for outrunning faster Scarfers, such as Garchomp, Keldeo, Terrakion, and Lati@s. Use an EV spread of 252 SAtk / 72 HP / 4 Def / 180 Spd, which lets you outrun the fastest Scarfer around (Lati@s), gives you a LO number and a bit of bulk to tank hits.

    Ninetales really wants Leftovers to stay alive as long as possible for weather wars. If you're worried about Dugtrio rain, try Shed Shell as the item, but use Pain Split so you have at least some form of recovery.

    Try out dragonuser's suggestion of specially defensive Zapdos, although I'd consider Toxic over Heat Wave or HP Ice; it's mainly to cripple Lati@s and Hippowdon, among other things.

    Other than that it's a cool team and I like the AC/DC reference. luvdisc
  12. TGMD

    TGMD +Biosci: you both gave me crabs
    is a Tutoris a Battle Server Moderatoris a Team Rater Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
    Tournament Winner

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2011
    Messages:
    989
    Hey Rex Exploder, nice team!

    First of all, your team has a massive weakness to rain, half of your current lineup is weak to water and you only have one water resist. This means that pokemon like Specs Politoed can come in and then what do you do? Politoed OHKOs your entire team under the rain with Hydro Pump other than Venusaur, this leaves you 3 options every time it comes out: sac something then force it out, bring in Venusaur, or get rid of the rain by switching in Ninetales. The first option means you lose a pkoemon everytime it comes out which is a terrible way of dealing with a pokemon as common as Politoed, the second option can only be done once, because Venusaur is 2HKOd so if it switches in a second time it'll die, and finally your Ninetales can't even do anything to Politoed if sleep clause is activated, so you'd have to bring it in then switch out, which is very predictable, and again, this is a one time option. Scarf Politoed is pretty bad as well, because it can outspeed and 2HKO your only resist under rain, so your only option against it is to activate sun or sac something. Overall, you're incredibly weak to common Specs / Scarf water types commonly found in rain teams, such as Keldeo, Politoed etc. To help remedy this situation, I suggest running a Blastoise over your current Forretress. Blastoise mitigates your rain problem, as it adds a second water resist to your team, allowing you to switch in on rain threats much easier, and then heal off the damage it takes on the switch with Protect + Rain Dish + Lefties. Blatoise is the best water resist spinner candidate for this team, because unlike Tentacruel and Starmie, it helps check dragons better, it takes Stone Edges from Terrakion, it's much better against Mamoswine, who is a huge threat to this team, I could go on, but the general idea is that Blastoise overall slots into this team better, with it's superior physical bulk and typing.

    This means you lose your Stealth Rock user, so I recommend Stealth Rock over Stone Edge on Mamoswine. You really do need a Stealth Rock user in the current metagame, it punishes switching and turns 2HKOs and 3HKOs into OHKOs and 2HKOs. Stone Edge doesn't offer much coverage that ice + ground coverage don't already, except for against a few select pokemon, such as Rotom-W and Gyrados, so losing it shouldn't be too big of a deal.

    Anyway, I hope this rate helped and GL with the team :)

    Blastoise (open)

    [​IMG]
    Blastoise (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Rain Dish
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4SDef
    Bold Nature
    - Scald
    - Protect
    - Rapid Spin
    - Toxic / Roar

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)