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[OU] DPP Ninjask (Update)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by bugmaniacbob, Jul 8, 2009.

  1. bugmaniacbob

    bugmaniacbob Floats like a Butterfree, stings like a Metapod
    is a Smogon Media Contributoris an Artist Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

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    Status: Done

    Ninjask is certainly a different kettle of fish when writing Team Options. I've been putting off getting it done for a few days, so I thought I'd post it now. I didn't do as much work as I could have, and some of the parts are left as they were, although most of the stuff, as well as all the set descriptions, have been rewritten.

    Initial Changes:
    • Rewrote all set descriptions
    • Added Team Options paragraph in every analysis
    • Renamed 'Standard Passer', 'Speed Passer' and 'Focus Sash' as Baton Pass V1, V2 and V3 respectively, since they are all pretty much the same idea
    • Removed Choice Band and Swords Dance sets, and moved them to Other Options. Scizor does both better, and anyway, if Doug's stats and my calculations are reliable, the number of people who used the two sets in Standard combined was about the same as the number who used Farfetch'd
    • Added Separate Team Options section
    • Reorganised Other Options, EV and Counters sections
    • Rewrote Opinion
    [​IMG]
    http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/ninjask
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    [SET]
    name: Baton Pass V1 (Classic)
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Swords Dance
    move 3: Baton Pass
    move 4: X-Scissor / Aerial Ace
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Jolly
    evs: 176 HP / 252 Atk / 80 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Ninjask is renowned as the best Baton Passer in the game, and rightly so. It has all the necessary tools to pull off a successful Baton Pass, the most important of these being Swords Dance, its Speed Boost ability, and its own overkill speed, meaning that Ninjask is nearly impossible to outspeed and can usually pull off a Baton Pass with next to no trouble. This is the classic Baton Pass set, so named as it is practically a carbon copy of the set Ninjask would almost always use in Advance, and which of all the variants is the simplest to comprehend – by setting up repeated Substitutes, and hopefully clinching a Swords Dance on the way, Ninjask can Baton Pass out to a powerful physical sweeper who promptly tears the opponent’s team apart. While this seems like an easy way to gain a win, it is, in practice, a fairly difficult tactic to successfully pull off.</p>

    <p>Substitute is one of the most important moves on the set, as it can block attacks that would normally kill Ninjask, and unlike Protect, it can be used in succession – with Leftovers one can generally create five Substitutes per game, which works in tandem with its ability, Speed Boost, to give the Baton Pass recipient a massive boost to its stats without having to use a single set-up move. If you can successfully pull off a Swords Dance without dying, which can be a very risky job indeed, a sweep is made even easier. Baton Pass is the core move of the set, switching out Ninjask while passing on all its boosts to your next and hopefully more physically robust pokémon. Lastly you have a choice of attacking moves in case you manage to keep Ninjask in reserve for the remainder of the battle, and a troublesome sweeper needs revenge killing. X-Scissor is listed as the main option as it is both its most powerful and its most useful offensive option, being able to revenge kill weakened sweepers that are also weak to it, like Alakazam, and if you get a Swords Dance in you also have a shot at OHKOing Tyranitar with no defensive investment. Aerial Ace, on the other hand, can be used to remove threats such as Heracross and Breloom, but its low power makes it unappealing. Ninjask is so fast you can afford to not invest heavily in Speed EVs – the spread given allows him some bulk, while still giving 413 speed, enough to outrun Adamant Choice Scarf Heracross as well as 0 Spe Swift Swim Kingdra, and everything this side of Electrode, who is not commonly seen in OU play. Ninjask can outrun just about everything in the game after a Speed Boost.</p>

    <p>On nearly every other pokémon with a massive quadruple Stealth Rock weakness, Rapid Spin support is either necessary or advisable, but Ninjask can often get around this by simply working as a lead, and therefore arriving straight into battle unscathed. This creates other problems – chiefly with common leads being able to best you, such as Metagross, which can beat Ninjask with a combination of breaking two Substitutes with Meteor Mash, leaving you with about 60% health, and then attacking with Bullet Punch, stopping you from creating a third Substitute, as well as it being able to kill you on the next turn. Infernape can use Fake Out against you before setting up, and Weavile and Mamoswine both have accesss to Ice Shard; Weavile in particular has both Fake Out and Ice Shard to utterly destroy you with before you can make a single move. Swampert and Hippowdon can simply use Roar to force you out and cause you to lose all your boosts, and there is nothing stopping any other lead from simply switching to another pseudo-hazer like Skarmory to do the same thing. Skarmory can be trapped and finished off with Magnezone, and if you pass the boosts to a physical Cradily or Octillery, you need not fear pseudo-hazing, as neither can be forced out due to their shared ability, Suction Cups. Other options for dodging this trap include adding other Baton Passers to create a chain and try to save your boosts. Mr. Mime is immune to Roar thanks to its ability, Soundproof, and can pass on the boosts again with its own Baton Pass. Smeargle can add Ingrain to the chain, making the entire chain immune to pseudo-hazing as a result. Also, passing to a powerful Taunt-user, such as Gyarados, if you predict a switch, can work as you can use Taunt to prevent their attempts to Roar, then set up or sweep. As for an eventual recipient for your boosts, something slow and powerful off the bat works best, as Ninjask’s trademark is passing speed. Rhyperior is quite slow and has impressive defensive stats, especially in a Sandstorm, and so is easy to bring into play. It also has the benefit of a gargantuan base 140 Attack stat, STAB on Earthquake and Stone Edge, and also the benefit of being able to easily come into Electric-, Rock-, Flying-, and Fire-type attacks aimed at Ninjask. Also, since barely anybody would think to aim a Ground, Fighting, or Grass attack at Ninjask, owing to them all being quad resisted or having no effect, Rhyperior can often switch in without fear of consequence. They do, however, share an Ice weakness and Rhyperior cannot come into Meteor Mash from lead Metagross, but these situations can be avoided. Tyranitar, Rampardos, Armaldo, and Marowak all work similarly, with Marowak having the highest initial Attack of them after factoring in a Thick Club. Other Pokémon with high Attack stats or powerful STAB moves, as well as sub-par speed, but with no notable switch-in opportunities, include Machamp, Dragonite, Metagross, Salamence, Ursaring, Heracross, and Breloom, all of whom benefit enormously from the extra Speed given.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Baton Pass V2 (Pure Speed)
    move 1: Protect
    move 2: Substitute
    move 3: Baton Pass
    move 4: X-Scissor
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 184 Def / 68 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Although being only a slight variation on the previous set, this variant attempts to solve the problems encountered by the Standard Baton Pass set by doing away with Attack boosting and concentrating all efforts on Ninjask’s greatest asset – the ability to pass speed boosts successfully. While this may seem initially to be simply the first set with Protect over Swords Dance, the two are played in subtly different ways, and the Baton Pass recipients should be accommodated as such.</p>

    <p>One of the problems encountered by the Standard Ninjask is that a common strategy for leads to use is using Trick to give Ninjask a Choice Scarf, in which the opponent can simply use Trick before Ninjask has had a chance to move, locking him into Substitute and rendering him useless for the remainder of the match. Protect, however, allows you to scout for Trick users and also to allow you to gain a speed boost, ensuring that you are now faster and can set up a Substitute, leaving the opponent locked into a move that fails to have any effect against a pokémon behind a Substitute. Then you are free to pass the Speed boost as they switch out, or be able to stall the switch-in by alternating Protect and Substitute until you have enough Speed Boosts, then Baton Passing out to your sweeper, hopefully passing an unbroken Substitute as well. Protect also allows you to avoid Fake Out from Infernape or Weavile leads. The EVs, too, allow for a different game style – 24 Speed EVs allow you to outrun positively natured base 120 pokémon, meaning that Trick Alakazam, Starmie, Azelf, Gengar, and Jirachi leads are all pretty much stopped cold. Not only that, but the heavily defensive spread also means that Ninjask will never be OHKOed by a Jolly Choice Band Weavile's Ice Shard or an Adamant Scizor's Choice Band Bullet Punch, and is almost never 2HKOed by an Adamant Lucario's Life Orb Extremespeed. This means you cannot be punished by priority attacks that normally would be the bane of its existence, and Ninjask is free to Baton Pass out of these attacks. The few leftover EVs are placed in Attack. If you don't care that much about X-Scissor, or are paranoid about Ninjask's Defense, an alternative spread of 248 HP / 244 Def / 16 Spe with a Jolly nature is recommended, allowing you greater physical durability and the ability to outrun positive base 130 Speed Pokemon.</p>

    <p>As this Ninjask is not passing out Attack, the Baton Pass recipients need to have as much natural Attack as possible in order to secure a sweep. One should also attempt to abuse the Speed passed as much as possible. For example, Heracross has two 120 base power STAB moves, a massive 125 base Attack stat, and Swords Dance. Rhyperior, Marowak and Armaldo also have access to Swords Dance. Ursaring also has Swords Dance and a powerful STAB Façade boosted by Guts, though it will have trouble surviving priority moves. On the special side, Porygon-Z has access to Nasty Plot but has only one low-powered STAB move, though most pseudo-hazers are weaker to special attacks than physical attacks. Togekiss has the advantage of being able to beat Blissey with a Substitute + Aura Sphere set, or alternatively can also run Nasty Plot. It can also abuse its 60% chance of a flinch with Air Slash if it runs Serene Grace, with the added Speed taken for granted. If priority moves are your chief concern, it is often better to run something with adequate defensive stats or resistances, such as Lucario, who resists Bullet Punch and Extremespeed, the two most common priority moves in the game.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Baton Pass V3 (Focus Sash)
    move 1: Swords Dance
    move 2: Baton Pass
    move 3: X-Scissor / Aerial Ace
    move 4: Sunny Day
    item: Focus Sash
    nature: Jolly
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Yet another Baton Pass set; this variant truly pushes the boundaries on what is considered ‘viable’ and ‘novelty’. The idea of the set is that it should be used as a lead, before entry hazards or Sandstorm turn up to spoil your day, as well as your Focus Sash, and can always get at least one Speed boost in before passing out, as well as hopefully a Swords Dance or two as well. Thus, you can pass away a nice package of +2 Attack and at least +1 speed, which should hopefully be enough to satisfy a powerful early sweep.</p>

    <p>First off, one should use Swords Dance, secure in the knowledge that your Ninjask shall be saved by its Focus Sash. If your opponent’s lead is a Tyranitar, Hippowdon or Abomasnow, use Sunny Day as they attack or set up, which saves your Sash and lets you pass on a speed boost without fear of dying. Again, you have a choice of offensive moves, although neither really matters unless your team is plagued by Alakazam or Heracross respectively. This Ninjask also has the potential to work in Ubers as letting a boosted Groudon loose on the opponent’s team can be well worth the effort, and most of the time Kyogre or Groudon keep the weather in balance with ease, and Stealth Rock is not as common in Ubers as in OU, and thus you can swap Sunny Day for Protect, hopefully gleaning an extra speed boost from the added turn. This set has much bigger troubles with priority-users ruining the fun than other sets – Weavile and Infernape leads can punish you with Fake Out, and in the former case super-effective STAB Ice Shard is also a problem. Mamoswine can also use Ice Shard, and Metagross can strike you down with a combination of Meteor Mash + Bullet Punch, which is added to the problems of Hippowdon and Swampert often carrying Roar, which will just as easily ruin your strategy. Other problem leads include Aerodactyl, who can simply Taunt as you Swords Dance, preventing you from Baton Passing away, and then setting up or crushing you with a couple of Stone Edges, and has the benefit of resisting both Aerial Ace and X-Scissor. Azelf works similarly but is weak to X-Scissor. The element of surprise is critical here, preventing many more leads from simply using a status move of some sort, such as Hypnosis from Bronzong or Thunder Wave from Jirachi, to ruin your strategy, expecting a Substitute from the standard Baton Passer. The EVs are quite simple, since there is less need for bulk than on the other two sets, owing to the Focus Sash and lack of Substitute, though the EV spread for the Standard Baton Passer works as well.</p>

    <p>In general, any recipient that works well with the Standard Baton Passer should work well here. Again, those that are bulky and also lack a set-up move of their own are first in line; those that do don’t really need the support most of the time. Heatran can actually work reasonably well with this set, as a secondary Baton Pass recipient, since if Abomasnow or Hippowdon shows up, they are unlikely to use Earthquake, and Heatran benefits both from the speed and the sunny weather stirred up, as well as resisting most attacks thrown at Ninjask. It can also take on lead Tyranitar to a certain extent, since lead Tyranitar commonly carry only Crunch and Fire Punch as attacking moves, both of which Heatran resists, and with its Sandstorm gone, it can be taken down with repeated Earth Powers. It also has the benefit of resisting both Bullet Punch and Extremespeed. In Ubers, one of the best recipients is often Groudon, who with a little speed and attack can tear apart most teams. Deoxys-A can run a physical or mixed set with Extremespeed and receive the pass, but is easily brought down by most priority attacks. Rayquaza, Garchomp, physical Dialga, and Giratina-O are also useful recipients as they all, with the exception of Garchomp, are a little lacking on Speed and all have the potential to tear apart the Uber metagame with boosted Dragon-type moves.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>In the way of other items, pinch Berries make a good alternative to whatever item is listed as long as it's not the focus of the set. Mostly, one should use Liechi or Petaya Berries, since they provide the best boost alongside Speed, and work well on the second set as it lacks Swords Dance. Petaya Berry also makes Heatran and other special attackers usable recipients for the boosts, as they will like the boost to their attacks greatly. A gimmicky Choice Band set can also work, since Ninjask functions as possibly the fastest revenge-killer in OU, though its power is still fairly pathetic. If you have read other analyses before, you will have noticed that most Choice Band/Choice Specs sets recommend Choice Scarf as an alternative. But Ninjask, who is faster than Team Rocket AND the speed of light, obviously doesn't need that.</p>

    <p>If you want to try to abuse Ninjask’s Speed to try for a sweep, you will find it very difficult indeed as Ninjask has very little in the way of physical move options outside of X-Scissor and Aerial Ace. Night Slash is pretty much Ninjask’s only option to even scratch Ghost-types, while likewise it also can theoretically use Dig for Steel and Rock-types of those immune to it, such as Skarmory and Aerodactyl, have been got rid of. U-turn could be used on Choice sets to scout for opposition, although Baton Pass may even surpass it as the speed boosts can be useful for the switch-in, and also helps differentiate it from Scizor, who can run exactly the same set of U-turn / Aerial Ace / Night Slash / X-Scissor, except better thanks to Technician, higher stats nearly everywhere, as well as other options such as Bullet Punch, Superpower and Pursuit.</p>

    <p>In the manner of alternative options, Roost is competitively viable on nearly any other pokémon, but Ninjask’s defensive stats are so pathetic that it is simply not worth it, especially when using Roost means giving up the only really useful thing about his typing, an Earthquake immunity. Sand-Attack doesn’t break the Evasion Clause and can be useful for such things as dodging random Stone Edges, as well as being of value on a Baton Pass chain should you manage to trap a Pokémon. Lastly, Screech has its merits as well, mainly by weakening the pseudo-hazer that just came out, such as Skarmory, hopefully causing a switch to a set-up sweeper who can take advantage of the turn that Skarmory switches out, or else crush it with a STAB move. It can also weaken a team should you have Spikes or Stealth Rock down.</p>

    [EVs]

    <p>The EVs listed on most sets let him outpace Choice Scarf Adamant Heracross, as well as Swift Swim Kingdra without Speed EVs. That's about all you need unless you go max, which is inadvisable as Ninjask does not really need much speed, and its HP benefits more from the boost, as well as the fact that it can create some bulkier Substitutes to pass on. More HP helps for better Substitutes to pass on, extra EVs in the defensive stats might save him sometimes, but usually won't. Attack should usually be max because whenever Ninjask needs to attack, he needs all the power he can get. More Speed helps for things such as Choice Scarf Pokémon, Dragon Dancers, Reversal/Flail users or other Salac Berry users, or anything that boosts its Speed, really. Make sure Ninjask's HP is an odd number so he doesn't roll over and die after two hits from Stealth Rock.</p>

    [Team Options]

    <p>Ninjask needs very little support himself to do his job properly, as he is not engineered to attack, defend, or do anything other than give that little bit extra impetus to the team. Rapid Spin support is very necessary should you wish to deploy Ninjask outside the lead spot, as Stealth Rock is strips nearly half its health off in one switch, which can be an effective way of using it in certain situations; although Ninjask rarely enters battle unscathed this way, it gives you an opportunity to rid Ninjask of any unwanted pseudo-hazers or other troublesome opponents before the opponent is aware of Ninjask's presence.</p>

    <p>Something like Heatran or Choice Band Metagross can often be used as an effective lure for removing Swampert and Hippowdon leads, by simply Exploding as they set up, you can rid yourself of a troublesome pokémon, or at least weaken them enough so that another pokémon can finish them off. Beware, though, as Swampert leads often carry Protect, although they are unlikely to use it first turn as Metagross or Heatran leads are liable to either a) set up Stealth Rock or b) switch to a counter whenever they see a Swampert, and so using Protect first turn is often an unwise strategy. Aside from this, Magnezone can trap and kill Skarmory, and Dugtrio can remove a weakened Tyranitar. Ninjask can then hopefully set up for your sweeper without fear of being removed prematurely. Smeargle can also work as a lead by setting up an Ingrain, and then Baton Passing it to Ninjask to prevent it from being forced out. One can also attempt to set up a full Baton Pass team using Ninjask, with such allies as Mr. Mime, who can block Roar with Soundproof, and Ambipom, who has Taunt to work with as well as continuing the Baton Pass chain. Umbreon or Ariados can trap with Mean Look or Spider Web respectively and Baton Pass that to Ninjask as well, hopefully granting Ninjask an easy set-up on a weakened pokémon.</p>

    <p>It should still be noted that Ninjask's most important teammate is the actual recipient for the Baton Pass. Rhyperior stands out as being one of the best, as it is quite slow, so is helped enormously by Ninjask’s speed boosts, and has impressive defensive stats, especially in a Sandstorm, as well as a base 140 Attack stat, a nearly unresisted STAB combination encompassing Earthquake and Stone Edge, and the ability to use Swords Dance. Rhyperior also has impressive defensive synergy with Ninjask, which is important as it allows it, for the most part, to come into attacks aimed at Ninjask with relative ease. Tyranitar also has a great Attack stat and dual STAB moves, as well as being grateful for the speed and extra power, and is very difficult to kill in one hit, though both it and Rhyperior have the negative characteristic of being weak to Steel, meaning that they cannot switch in on Scizor's Bullet Punch, Metagross's Meteor Mash and Jirachi's Iron Head, with the former being an easy answer to removing any Ninjask not protected by a Substitute, and the latter two being very common leads. Rampardos has a truly massive Attack stat as well as Mold Breaker, but is even more prone to Scizor's Bullet Punch than Tyranitar is. Marowak has higher initial Attack than any of the above after factoring in a Thick Club, as well as having access to Swords Dance and a recoil-free Double-Edge. Heracross has dual 120 Base Power STAB moves as well as Swords Dance on top of a good 125 base Attack stat, and benefits enormously from extra Speed. Ursaring also has Swords Dance, a high Attack stat, and can use a STAB Guts-boosted Façade to great effect, but is easily revenge-killed by priority. Breloom can use its trademark Spore before taking a hit with the Speed boost taken into account, and also has Swords Dance as well as a fairly good movepool. No Guard Machamp can sweep a team with a bit of luck due to its confusion-causing DynamicPunch, or it can use Guts for added power, in addition to being quite naturally bulky. Other Pokémon with high Attack stats or powerful STAB moves as well as sub-par speed, but with no notable defensive synergy, include Dragonite, Metagross, and Salamence, all of whom benefit enormously from the extra speed given. Lastly, both Cradily and Octillery both cannot be forced out by Roar or Whirlwind due to their ability, Suction Cups, with the latter having higher offensive stats on both ends as well as a greater movepool, but the former having greater staying power, despite being weak to Bullet Punch.</p>

    [Opinion]

    <p>Ninjask is one of those niche pokemon that can only seemingly do one thing well enough, but is so good at it that it occupies a special space in that exclusive club of standard pokemon. He is probably the single most reliable, as well as effective, Baton Passer in the game. He dies faster than any other pokemon in OU, having pretty much the worst overall defensive stats in the tier, as well as one of the worst typings, but then he doesn't need to live long, only to live long enough to take advantage of the initial surprise, which between Substitute, Baton Pass, and insane speed, is not hard to do at all. In fact, it is one of the things Ninjask excels at.<p>

    <p>To sum it up, Ninjask is a bit of a hit-or-miss Pokémon and may require some luck to pull off, but when he does pull through, he tends to allow other dangerous Pokémon like Rampardos, Marowak, and Heracross to completely harass opponents into submission. He is arguably the best way of punishing any team lacking a pseudo-hazer, and while Stealth Rock and Trick Room are unwelcome changes, for the most part, Ninjask is very usable indeed.</p>

    [Counters]

    <p>A good counter to Ninjask would be "poke it gently" because that's about how quickly he dies. However, since Substitute and Baton Pass tend to let no one touch him, you must resort to other methods. A good start is laying down Stealth Rock, which will cost him 50% health right off the bat. Sand Stream will damage him further. Skarmory, Suicune, Hippowdon, and anything else with Roar/Whirlwind can negate his stat boosts and any attempts to Baton Pass, though these three are the best at taking hits. Weezing, and to a lesser extent Vaporeon, or anything else with Haze, will do as well, but Ninjask will still be able to pass Substitutes, which on its own is deadly.</p>

    <p>Priority moves will bypass Ninjask's insane Speed and can injure him badly, but if it survives with more than 25% of its health, he can still get in a Substitute. Fake Out prevents that, so if you can Fake Out a lead Ninjask with something like Weavile or Infernape, you can beat it easily. Other such priority moves include Scizor and Metagross’s Bullet Punch and Lucario’s Extremespeed, and any other priority move should be fine, though Ice Shard will cause the most damage, while Mach Punch and Vacuum Wave will do very little. However, if Ninjask is running the bulkier Speed passing set, he can survive the priority onslaught and Baton Pass anyway.</p>

    <p>As for individual pokémon, a lead Weavile can remove Ninjask via a combination of Fake Out + Ice Shard, while Metagross can remove Substitutes with repeated Meteor Mashes, and then Bullet Punching when Ninjask gets below about 70% to prevent it making another Substitute, then killing it on the next turn. Arcanine does pretty well against Ninjask with Intimidate, Extremespeed, and Fire-type moves, and he can also Roar if needed. Leads such as Gengar and Jirachi can Trick a Choice Scarf onto lead Ninjask lacking Protect before it can set up a Substitute, locking it into one move and thus preventing it from functioning properly. Trick Room makes Ninjask a counterproductive Pokémon, but is generally used as an entire team strategy, and cannot be used simply to counter Ninjask. Taunt can work past a Substitute and stop Ninjask setting up from behind one, and also stops him Baton Passing away, though Azelf, the most common Taunt-using lead, will more likely than not be easily carved up by a subsequent X-Scissor. Aerodactyl resists both X-Scissor and Aerial Ace and also carries Taunt, as well as Super-effective STAB Stone Edge or Rock Slide to hurt with. Psych Up works to a lesser extent—your Psych Upper may not be able to live up against a boosted Ninjask or whoever he passes to, especially since most Pokémon with Psych Up tend to be Psychic. Lastly, something like Armaldo can use Rock Blast to break Ninjask’s Substitute, then strike it repeatedly with up to four more 4x effective hits.</p>

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    Post-critique changes:
    • Grammar check 1, thanks to Flashstorm1
    • Grammar check 2, thanks to Erodent
  2. d2m

    d2m

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    Need to mention Lead Mamo and Weavile often carry Ice Shard which is a SE Priority move. On weavile it's combined with Fake Out which can prevent Ninjask from doing his job.
  3. Fireburn

    Fireburn BARN ALL
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    Why is this here?
  4. bugmaniacbob

    bugmaniacbob Floats like a Butterfree, stings like a Metapod
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    I mentioned them on the second and third sets and in the counters section, and I think in Team Options as well. I don't know where else I could mention them, but I'll put them down in the first set anyway.

    Oh damn, I forgot to remove that, I was using the document that I wrote the update on as a scrap page to jot down some notes, I must have missed these. Good catch.
  5. d2m

    d2m

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    That post was made before you added 2 paragraphs to the counters section :)
  6. Flashstorm1

    Flashstorm1
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    I managed to find a few problems (but probably not all) in the analysis, and they have been highlighted red so you can fix them easily in the OP. Your main problem was missing commas in a list of three or more items. Not sure if that's a British thing, but here in America, we use the format "x, y, and z".

    Nice job overall! Keep up the good work, as Smogon really needs contributors such as yourself.
  7. Rave

    Rave

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    This kind of bothers me. Choice Band and Choice Specs are pretty much the same idea as well, but in an analysis you don't name them "Choice V1" and "Choice V2". Irrespective of how similarly they work, I think there should be a clear distinction in the set names as they do do different things (Mainly Pure Speed Passer).
  8. PremiumVerumFatum

    PremiumVerumFatum

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    Ok, so why does the Focus Sash set have so much HP? Shouldn't it have max attack/speed?
  9. bugmaniacbob

    bugmaniacbob Floats like a Butterfree, stings like a Metapod
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    Thanks for the nitpicks, I probably need to learn these American spellings better. So 'manoeuvre' is spelled differently? I need to remember that.

    Oh, and thanks again!

    Choice Band and Choice Specs sets, on the same pokemon, are pretty different to each other - different items, no shared moves, etc. While there is not a completely different strategy involved for both of them, they have completely different counters and are used to break different things. In contrast to this, Ninjask's Baton Pass sets all revolve around the same move and in general have the same strategy involved, as well as the same counters. Also, in the way of continuity, the only other analysis I ever read with two or more Baton Pass sets was Drifblim, which was labelled as Baton Pass and Baton Pass V2, as I recall.

    I doesn't really need all that speed, since it won't be outspeeding anything of significance with max speed, especially in the lead spot. Speed Boost then pretty much allows it to outrun anything in the game, and it can't outspeed Scarf Gengar / Azelf even with max investment. There are some notes on this in the EV section: You can run max, but the HP EVs are more preferential for the ability to occasionally survive random weaker blows, as well as being able to pass bulkier Substitutes. In reality, the Focus Sash set doesn't have anything really clever with EVs going for it - it is simply the standard Ninjask EV spread.
  10. RegalStar

    RegalStar

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    Maybe you meant "assuming all of them are grounded"? Assuming all levitators and flyers are grounded just doesn't make much sense.
  11. Erodent

    Erodent

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    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Good stuff here, I just edited some minor things. Stuff from the spelling standards thread:

    I may have over-edited some things so watch out, but either way, nice revamp again (hooray for eliminating Choice Band and Thief sets).

    In response to Rad3n's post below, you could try naming a set "Baton Pass Vx (Example Purpose, eg - Pure Speed Passer)" - in other words, for example, "Baton Pass V2 (Pure Speed Passer)". Just an idea.
  12. Rave

    Rave

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    Set name is about identifying the Pokemon. "Baton Pass V2" tells me nothing. "Pure Speed Passer" tells me everything. It's not uncommon for the same Pokemon to counter all sets of a given Pokemon (provided they aren't gimmicky sets). The first two BellyZard sets both revolve around the move Belly Drum, yet are named in a way which actually separates what they do differently. As much as "Baton Pass Vx" breeds continuity, even "Baton Pass, Standard", "Baton Pass, Pure Speed", and "Baton Pass, Focus Sash" is a clearer alternative.
  13. PremiumVerumFatum

    PremiumVerumFatum

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    That's what the Sash is for. Besides, there is no Substitute on this set for a reason. ;)
  14. bugmaniacbob

    bugmaniacbob Floats like a Butterfree, stings like a Metapod
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    Personally, I feel the introduction to the set commentswould be better for identification of the pokemon, especially if it was not immediately obvious what 'Bellyzard' was; I don't believe readers are always that lazy. And the first two Bellyzard sets don't seem too different anyway and could probably be condensed into a single set description, albeit with a great deal of explanation on different tactics, similarly to sets simply titled 'Choice', which condense Scarf and Band/Specs together, while giving an explanation of what each does. Although it may be just me, I prefer set names that are as simple as possible, while set descriptions should cover the more thorough explanation.

    Still, I must admit you do have a point, so I suppose I had better change the titles. If you still don't think they are specific enough, don't hesitate to say so.

    My bad, I wasn't feeling too well when I read your first post and I thought you were talking about the first set. Yes, you're quite right, either spread can work, but perhaps 252/252 is preferable, I'll make a note of it.

    Just so everybody knows, I've come down with what appears to be Swine Flu, I'm taking Tamiflu but I'll probably be off the computer for a while after this, so don't be impatient if I don't update immediately.
  15. Stellar

    Stellar
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    Little Cup Pope

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    Seems that you were going to update stuff about a month ago. You've been posting other things recently, so if you could finish this sometime, that would be great.
  16. Darkmalice

    Darkmalice Like a facepalm, but better
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    For the Baton Pass V2 (Pure Speed), I recommend using a spread of
    248 HP / 8 Atk / 184 Def / 68 Spe. The 68 Spe enables you to outrun Alakazam, the fastest Trick user and who is occasionally seen as a lead. The Atk EVs aren't really useful, as you almost never use X-Scissor.
    Personally, I go 248 HP / 244 Def / 16 Spe with a Jolly nature just for the extra Def against priority attacks, and enough Speed to outrun base 130s. It's just a matter preference; I never use X-Scissor, and I see little use in Atk EVs or an Adamant nature. The spread is mainly useful when Sandstorm is in play, or if you use Swords Dance in place of X-Scissor.
  17. bugmaniacbob

    bugmaniacbob Floats like a Butterfree, stings like a Metapod
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    Changes made; thanks very much.

    I think this is finished, unless anyone else has anything to add.
  18. Darkmalice

    Darkmalice Like a facepalm, but better
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    There should be 8 Atk in place of 4. Your EV total is only 504.
  19. bugmaniacbob

    bugmaniacbob Floats like a Butterfree, stings like a Metapod
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    Fixed; Thanks.
  20. Stellar

    Stellar
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    Little Cup Pope

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    Uploading.

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