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OU GenIV Wear n' Tear

Discussion in 'Past Gen Teams' started by TomX159, May 1, 2012.

  1. TomX159

    TomX159

    Joined:
    May 1, 2012
    Messages:
    40
    Hello everyone! This is my first RMT and it's a team that I've been fiddling around with lately and seems to be working out.

    At a glance:

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    So this team is designed to do as much residual damage as possible, and paving the way for a MixApe, CroCune, or possibly Metagross BP sweep. To do this, I've got Stealth Rock and Toxic Spikes in the mix and a lot of walls that force switches. I chose my walls based on the walls I hate to face. I groan at the sight of defensive Zapdos and Suicune, so why not have both of these beasts on my side? Zapdos serves more as an intimidating special attacker that can stall when need be, and Suicune is a great wall that functions as a sweeper mid/late game. The more dedicated walls, however, are Blissey and Forretress. Let's take a closer look at the team...

    In Detail:

    [​IMG]
    Metagross @ Lum Berry
    Ability: Clear Body
    EVs: 220 HP / 232 Atk / 44 SpDef / 12 Speed
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpAtk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Meteor Mash
    - Bullet Punch
    - Earthquake

    Metagross is my personal favorite lead of all time just because it functions as an Anti-Lead but can also get up SR of its own. The EV spread is to take Lead Azelf's Fire Blast while still having enough speed to threaten other Metagross leads. On leads like Swampert and Bronzong I will happily trade stealth rocks because usually my next switch in on these guys after a bit of scouting is Forretress to set up. If a lead threatens me like Machamp, Azelf, or Roserade, I immediately go on the offensive. A combination of MM+BP (Atk raise plz? :D) or EQ+BP will take these leads out while Lum saves me from DynamicPunch's confusion and Roserade's SleepPowder. Opposing Metagrosses are hit by a faster EQ and I can just set up SR on their switch out after they see I can 2HKO them. Most people switch in Rotom on me when they see EQ and think they have me. However, I stay in to see if they want to Trick me something or want to Wil-O-Wisp and burn my Lum Berry. I don't want my Blissey eating a Tricked Choice item off the start of the game, and to be honest, Metagross doesn't really mind being scarfed.

    [​IMG]
    Forretress @ Shed Shell
    Ability: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpDef
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SpAtk)
    - Toxic Spikes
    - Rapid Spin
    - Payback
    - Pain Split

    Forretress comes in whenever possible to lay up some ToxicSpikes and spin away other pesky things that might hurt Infernape and Zapdos. As I said before, I usually have this thing in early game to set up on physically based leads. And for this reason, I run Shed Shell to get away from Magnezones. I'll switch into Blissey as they either T-Bolt, HP Fire, or Substitute. From there I use Softboiled just in case they want to explode. Payback is for the Spin Blockers and I can say that Gengar is somewhat of a nightmare. Because I don't have Leftovers, I like to run Pain Split to keep Forretress at a reasonable amount of HP.

    [​IMG]
    Zapdos @ Leftovers
    Ability: Pressure
    EVs: 192 HP/ 64 Def / 252 Speed
    Timid Nature (+Speed, -Atk)
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Substitute
    - Roost

    This Zapdos set is the standard Sub-Roost set that can punch holes in teams when it has a sub up as well as stall out things that end up getting Toxic'd. This guy loves to say Hi! to Scizors and the threat of a Heat Wave gives me a free sub. Since Suicune doesn't have an Ice Beam, I decided to put HP Ice on 'Dos for a half-ass'd BoltBeam coverage. A thought I had was to replace Substitute with Roar and giving Zapdos alot more bulk, but a base 100 max speed T-Bolt was honestly too nice to pass up...plus I didn't like the thought of Roaring into a poke that forced me to switch and gave a potential set up for them.

    [​IMG]
    Blissey @ Leftovers
    Ability: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpDef
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Seismic Toss
    - Softboiled
    - Aromatherapy
    - Toxic

    A very epic special wall if I do say so myself. Blissey has been very key on this team as she takes a lot of threats and sends them on their way. I have Toxic for those pesky Levitators/Flyers, namely Gyarados. Blissey can take a hit from Gyarados and send a Toxic his way. Toxic+SR+Suicune = bad day for Gyarados. I run Softboiled opposed to Wish because having something like Aromatherapy instead of Protect was way too good to pass up. Plus the only things that can't heal themselves on the team are Metagross, which is the most expendable poke on the team, and Infernape, who isn't designed to be switching in willy-nilly. Unfortunately, Blissey is almost an immediate switch in on opposing Gengars, and if they set up a sub I could be in a world of hurt. The only thing I can really do is get Metagross in if he's still around and BulletPunch a sub away, then on a free switch bring in Suicune and frantically set up CMs or Forretress to Payback it. For this reason I'm debating whether or not to replace Toxic or AromaTherapy with ShadowBall as Gengar is the biggest threat to this team.

    [​IMG]
    Suicune @ Leftovers
    Ability: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Speed
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk
    - Calm Mind
    - Surf

    Suicune is a beast. Takes hits like a boss, and deals hits just the same. Suicune is a powerhouse, and if my opponent isn't careful, I can get up a good amount of CMs, and then who cares about stall? Unfortunately, my only attacking move is Surf, so I can get walled early game. For this reason I either go for the safe Surf instead of setting up a CM if I haven't seen any of their walls, or double switch into Metagross if he's still around to combat the incoming wall. If I have to stall, RestTalk is absolutely great and Pressure thrown in the mix from both Suicune and Zapdos can really make the opponent think twice about using Stone Edge or Close Combat as they need to save those for Zapdos and Blissey respectively. Because of this I actually like matching CroCune up against Gyarados because they won't use Stone Edge needing to DD up and hit Zapdos later and with SR up it's nice to know that Gyarados will be hurting mid game. CroCune is also my last effort against opposing Blissey if something happens to Infernape or Metagross.

    [​IMG]
    Infernape @ Expert Belt
    Ability: Blaze
    EVs: 252 Atk / 64 SpAtk / 192 Speed
    Hasty Nature (+Speed, -Def)
    - Close Combat
    - U-Turn
    - Overheat
    - Mach Punch

    It was a hard decision of what item I should put on this guy. I ultimately decided that Expert Belt was the best choice because Life Orb recoil on U-Turns and Mach Punches just made me cringe. I was considering using Choice Scarf to combat the main nuisance to this team--Gengar. However, I do like Expert Belt because I can easily bluff a Choice Scarf. Many a time I can throw out a Close Combat, and they feel safe and bring in a Skarmory/Forretress/Celebi only to have an Overheat thrown in their face (or a U-Turn for Celebi). Unfortunately for me though, I seem to hit more Fire Blasts than Overheats, which blow my cover and leave me without a kill I feel like I should have gotten. Infernape is my answer to the common walls Blissey, Snorlax (on a free switch), Umbreon, Skarmory, Bronzong (on a free switch),Forretress, Celebi, and Shaymin. However, Infernape really shines late game with his high speed and access to Mach Punch. I don't really worry about things like Scarf Heatran because Suicune or Blissey can easily switch in on it (I'd rather have Suicune take the Explosion on a predicted Blissey switch in), forcing it out to put on some more SR damage as well as switching into my resisted attacks, allowing Infernape to clean up with Mach Punch.


    So that concludes my first RMT, I am entirely open to constructive criticism (maybe swapping a poke, moves, or EV spreads). If you see a poke/set that completely destroys this team, let me know! And if this team totally fails, tell me why! It'll help me with constructing future teams and make me a more educated battler! Thanks for your time.
  2. broodjekebab

    broodjekebab

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2009
    Messages:
    103
    Toxic Spikes + Crocune is a very effective combination, usually. However, the strategy will fail against any decent defensive team with a spinner if you lack a spinblocker, which you currently do.
    While I like your Infernape set, it does seem a bit out of place with the general defensiveness of the team. If you had to replace one pokemon with a spinblocker, losing Infernape would probably hurt your defense least. The Rhotoms are excellent spinblockers and also relieve Zapdos of some pressure, since handling both Gyarados and Scizor can take its toll quickly.
  3. TomX159

    TomX159

    Joined:
    May 1, 2012
    Messages:
    40
    Thanks for the feedback!

    I agree completely that this team is very dependent on entry hazards and rapid spinners are a bit of a problem. However, I don't agree with replacing Infernape with a spin blocker. I am a little hesitant to give up Infernape just because it's my only dedicated physical sweeper. I admit it does seem out of place, but I really needed something that could throw out STAB super effective moves from the physical and special side to try to finish off some common walls (particularly steels). Trading out a heavy physical hitter for a special attacking wall/scarfer like a Rotom form just for the sake of blocking spin doesn't seem worth it. The worst I could do to things like Blissey and Snorlax would be tricking them a scarf, which they would probably predict when I bring it in. Also, things like T-Tar suddenly become a huge threat, and the only way I could do anything to it if it's not Toxic'd is to try to get a lot of CMs with Suicune. Not to mention the fact that if I trade out Infernape for a Rotom form I'll probably have to resort to PP stalling a lot more things that could have been taken care of.

    I also agree that a Rotom form would relieve Zapdos from Gyarados, but if they have Stone Edge I usually leave the job to Suicune unless I can get Zapdos in without Gyara having a DD.
    I do think that this team would be much more effective with a spin blocker, but each poke on the team has it's own niche job and I don't think a ghost could fill the shoes of any particular poke on the team.
  4. 2sly4u

    2sly4u

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2010
    Messages:
    535
    Hi Tom, nice team and welcome to Smogon.

    I have a few nitpicks. First off, I don't think that Aromatherapy Blissey is a great fit for this team. The only team member who really hates status is Zapdos, and it should be safely behind a Substitute the majority of the time it's in play. Metagross already has a Lum Berry, Suicune has Rest, and Forry is immune to Toxic, the one status move that would hypothetically neuter him (Burn is kind of annoying, but still). A much better use Blissey's move slots would be to run the standard Wish/Protect in place of Softboiled/Aromatherapy. I know you said you didn't feel strongly about that for your team, but hear me out since it helps you in multiple ways:

    1) Wish can heal Metagross. Suddenly, he's not just death fodder later in the match, but also a potent Tank/ Wallbreaker.

    2) Wish provides insurance for your teammates that have recovery moves. What I mean by that is that Blissey can provide an emergency heal for something that has low health switching in. For example, say Suicune gets forced out while it still has one turn of sleep left, and only has 30% health. Instead of being death fodder, Blissey's Wish can give 'Cune the durability it needs to tank two hits on the switch-in and Rest up on its own. Another example would be Zapdos. Say you switch out with 40% health, and your opponent gets up Rocks. Normally, you'd be forced to Roost the next time you come in since you wouldn't have the health to use Substitute, opening yourself up to EQ mind games, set-up opportunities, and free switches for your opponent. However, if you manage to heal up beforehand, Zapdos is free to set up a Sub turn one, giving you more time to Pressure/ Toxic stall. TL;DR: Is Wish redundant? A bit. However, it can greatly increase the durability of your team in unexpected ways, which is mighty important for a T.Spikes team.

    3) It lets you get rid of Pain Split on Forretress. Pain Split is at best a gimmicky way to heal, and at worst a complete waste of a move slot. In Forry's case, it tends to lean towards the latter since his abysmal speed forces the user to predict when the opponent will attack, and his decent HP means he doesn't get much health back per use. Forretress has a few options that fit in that slot better, such as Spikes. 37% health lost plus Toxic damage can cut down an opposing team very fast. Other good options include Earthquake, Gyro Ball, or even Light Screen.

    I also second broodjekebab's Rotom suggestion. Even without Spikes, this team needs a SpinBlocker, and Infernape isn't a great fit anyways; basically all of the pokemon he covers can be beaten by your current team + Rotom, and right now an opposing Rapid Spinner is pretty much game over for you. Here's a good set for your play style:

    [​IMG]
    Rotom-W@Leftovers
    Bold Nature, 252HP/252 Def/4SpA
    Rest
    Sleep Talk
    Thunderbolt/Shadow Ball
    Will-O-Wisp/Hydro Pump

    ResTalk Rotom gives you a much-needed SpinBlocker and can be ridiculously hard to take down, especially with Wish support. Sleep Talk and Rest form the crux of the set, and you should be familiar with them because of Suicune. The third slot can go to your STAB of choice, while the last slot should be either Will-O-Wisp or Hydro Pump. The former lets you cripple pokemon who can pass over your TS, such as Dragonite, Scizor, and Lucario. Hydro Pump has less utility, but can surprise pokemon like Heatran who are think they can force you out. Either way, run Rotom-W over the other forms because feigning Hydro Pump can cause your opponent to misplay, something the other specialty moves don't do as well.

    Sorry that's so long. Have fun, and good luck!
  5. TomX159

    TomX159

    Joined:
    May 1, 2012
    Messages:
    40
    First off, thanks for the warm greeting!

    Secondly, I see your point with running Wish on Blissey. It does really open up a moveslot for Forretress (probably will throw out some spikes once T-Spikes are up) while supporting each poke's longevity in the battle, expecially Zapdos while SR is present. I did notice that I hardly ever got any status on Zapdos (I think I've gotten poisoned from Sludge Bomb more often than I've gotten Toxic'd). Aromatherapy was really nice to wake up Suicune right after it rested if I had a free turn with Blissey out, but I can see what you're saying about nothing really worrying about any status.

    Well now I have two people saying that Rotom fits this team better so I would be pretty ignorant to say "no" at this point. I have experience with using SleepTalk Rotom with T-Bolt and Shadow Ball but never one with Wil-O-Wisp. It seems appealing to get some burn on all the steels that laugh at my T-Spikes (burning D-nite would be hilarious). I feel like I have enough things to handle Heatran, and just the presence of Rotom-W can make them think that I run Hydro Pump. And I know from previous experience that I can outstall Blissey with SleepTalk Rotom which puts 2 Blissey PP stallers on the team. I do have one question though. Is it best to run a fully physically defensive Rotom-W if I already have 'Dos, Forretress, and Suicune? I feel like running a bit of special defense could help me against things like Starmie if it doesn't rapid spin on the switch. I'll definitely give it a try. Thanks to both of you guys.
  6. 2sly4u

    2sly4u

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2010
    Messages:
    535
    You can adjust the EVs however you like. It's generally good to have some Defense, but investing in Sp.D is perfectly acceptable. There are plenty of people who actually just invest even amounts in both, and it suits them just fine. If you run WoW, then defense becomes even less necessary since the Burn will help offset some physical damage.
  7. TomX159

    TomX159

    Joined:
    May 1, 2012
    Messages:
    40
    After playing about 10 matches with bulky Rotom-W (I went with a bit more bulk on the special side) all I can say is that the team does run a lot more smoothly. It plays a lot different with Rotom-W instead of Infernape, as a lot more things needed to be stalled out.

    But to me the best change was Wish on Blissey. I never expected Wish passing to be way more useful than Aromatherapy. A bit more prediction is used though, as they sometimes try to get switch advantage guessing what I'll Wish pass into.

    Thanks broodjekebab and 2sly4u for the help.
  8. Tomahawk

    Tomahawk Nidoqueen is good in Ubers!
    is a Team Rater Alumnus
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2010
    Messages:
    2,050
    Hey cool team man, I like it.

    Anyways, I think that as the others said that you probably need a spinblocker. The best option and the one I usually like to slap on teams is bulky Scarf Rotom-W. It's an excellent set on defensive teams, as it can revenge kill a ton of otherwise dangerous things such as Gyarados, Starmie and the like. Using bulk on it at the cost of power also means it can switch in on a lot easier, which helps as now it can take a Life Orb Hydro Pump from Starmie and a Waterfall from Gyarados. It also has Trick which can help against last Pokemon setups such as CurseLax and CroCune, as well as against stall teams.
    Though, another thing you might consider is Gengar. Gengar is a much more offensive spinblocker, and like Infernape packs a punch. The set I'm talking about, SubSplit, is also an excellent set when paired with Toxic Spikes, and Spikes which is a useful option on Forretress over Pain Split, especially if you go with Wish on Blissey. It can really do big damage to pretty much any team, and can actually beat Blissey which other special sweepers wish they could.

    sets (open)

    [​IMG]
    Rotom-W @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 40 SAtk / 216 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hydro Pump
    - Shadow Ball
    - Trick

    [​IMG]
    Gengar @ Life Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Substitute
    - Pain Split
    - Shadow Ball
    - Focus Blast


    I've also got something else in mind, which while not really necessary to deal with a threat or something similar, is still something cool to consider. I thought of it when I saw this team, but if you don't like it don't bother.

    Anyways, in short the changes are:
    Specs Zapdos > Metagross
    Calm Mind Jirachi > Zapdos
    Stealth Rock Blissey > Support Blissey

    Specs Zapdos is one of the best leads right now in my opinion, and for good reason. Most of the common leads to it, as powerful STAB Thunderbolts and Hidden Power Flyings boosted by Choice Specs will hurt almost anything, and it can U-turn out of the things that beat it. Metagross is a cool lead, but it gets forced out by several common leads, such as Heatran, Infernape, Swampert, Gliscor, Hippowdon, Starmie, and other Zapdos. Zapdos beats all of those leads unlike Metagross. I also feel that leading with your Stealth Rock user isn't all that effective since I prefer leading with something that beats most other common leads and prevent Stealth Rock from the opponent, while you can set it up a few turns in the game, meaning you have the hazard advantage and the score advantage most likely. Anyways, now that you use Specs Zapdos as a lead you can't use SubRoost Zapdos anymore, so using Calm Mind Jirachi there keeps a great Toxic Spikes abuser, while keeping the exact same resistances as you have now. Jirachi makes for an excellent Toxic Spikes abuser since with Toxic Spikes it can beat a lot of Pokemon, such as Blissey and Tyranitar, it otherwise could not. There are two ways you can go with Calm Mind Jirachi: Wish and Substitute. Wish allows you to heal Forretress which can be really beneficial, and it also seems to fit better in your team since it looks more defensive. If you add Rotom-W Jirachi can heal it as well. SubCM is also a good option though; it's more effective at abusing Toxic Spikes and sweeping in general but since your team is more defensively inclined I think you'll want to go with Wish, which also lets you use Spikes > Pain Split on Forretress.
    Now, one thing you lose when going with these changes is Stealth Rock. An easy way of solving this is using Stealth Rock on Blissey. You lose Wish support, but seeing as Jirachi already provides Wish support now it becomes kinda redundant. Anyways, the sets:

    sets (open)

    [​IMG]
    Zapdos @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hidden Power [Flying]
    - Heat Wave
    - U-turn

    [​IMG]
    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 224 Def / 32 Spd
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Wish
    - Calm Mind
    - Flash Cannon / Psychic
    - Thunderbolt

    [​IMG]
    Blissey @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Softboiled
    - Seismic Toss
    - Ice Beam / Toxic


    Cool team, good luck!
  9. TomX159

    TomX159

    Joined:
    May 1, 2012
    Messages:
    40
    Haven't been playing any Pokemon for the past few days but I'll try experimenting with the spin blockers when I have some free time. Bulky Scarf Rotom looks kinda cool, but I feel like it would be just another poke that will have to rely on a Wish from Blissey. The concept of revenge killing doesn't really suit this team, as it's meant to have something come in and stay there for a very long time and leave the field still in tact. Examples are Suicune setting up, Zapdos pressure/toxic stalling, and Blissey...being Blissey. However, Gengar seems to be a half stall half revenge killer with Sub-Split. I'll definitely try it out, and I know that if Gengar can get a free sub, it can mean certain doom for a poke or two for the other team. Although I'll probably have to pass a Wish off to it some time or another since Pain Split will get less useful near the end of the game because Toxic will be taking its toll on the other team. Maybe I'll try out a Sub-Punching Gengar just because it's one of the most fun things ever. lol....


    As for the other changes....

    I don't really plan on changing my Metagross lead because it's been very, very solid so far. Another reason is that I have always been picky about my lead, and I am most comfortable with this Metagross because I have used it for a long time. So call me stubborn :P
    Another thing I think people underestimate is the Zapdos and Suicune pressure stalling combination. With Toxic racking up on their sweepers, they need to throw out hard hitting moves. And I can stall PP on dangerous moves like Stone Edge, Close Combat, Hydro Pump, Waterfall, and Earthquake with these two pokes. Once those are gone Blissey can basically stay in all day and laugh at everything. So I feel Zapdos' place is also really solid where it stands, so I'm going to kindly dismiss the Jirachi suggestion. I also feel like I could make an entirely new team out of a Zapdos lead and Jirachi because of how much different the team would be.


    But so far I'm loving the suggestions from everyone. I feel like it's only a matter of time before this team is operating at maximum efficiency.

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