1. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.
  2. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!

OU Leads

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by Jukain, Sep 4, 2012.

  1. DarkBlazeR

    DarkBlazeR

    Joined:
    May 20, 2009
    Messages:
    387
    [​IMG]

    Scolipede @ Focus Sash / Bug Gem
    Trait: Swarm
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Spikes
    - Megahorn
    - Earthquake
    - Rock Slide/Toxic Spikes

    Although a very rare sight in OU, Scolipede is an underrated lead that deserves more love. I believe it was featured in a Smog article back in the BW1 days, but it has become more effective in the BW2 metagame in my opinion. Whilst it seems outclassed by Deoxys-D as a spiker lead, it has advantages in high speed and the offensive presence to threaten many things in OU, including weather starters, Espeon and ironically Deoxys-D. I personally prefer Rock Slide over Toxic Spikes to hit Volcarona/Thundurus-T hard, and Toxic Spikes are less effective than before due to the popularity of grounded Poison types such as Venusaur and Tentacruel. However, they are still useful vs Stall teams lacking Tentacruel. Focus Sash guarantees you'll set up at least 1 layer of Spikes, but Bug Gem is required for Megahorn to OHKO 252/4 Deoxys-D and standard SDef Tyranitar.
  2. Ithilanor

    Ithilanor

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2010
    Messages:
    240
    I don't think you need the Bug Gem against Deoxys-D. Just Megahorn, take a HP Fire, live with your sash, and get the 2HKO. Also, how well does it fare against Politoed?
  3. VictorVonDoom

    VictorVonDoom

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2012
    Messages:
    9
    Straight up stole this. However for my few battle forays into OU, this guy has been great for my niche team.

    Hippowdon @ Leftovers
    Ability: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 HP/4 Atk/252 Def
    Impish Nature
    Slack Off/Roar/Earthquake/Stealth Rock
  4. KurashiDragon

    KurashiDragon

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2008
    Messages:
    822
    Alright It's official. I'm pissed at those statistics. Where's ditto? Ditto is the ultimate lead because it's capable of checking all other leads and acting accordingly. It makes it easy to judge an opponents team when your unsure of what they might be running.
  5. jaderichard

    jaderichard

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2012
    Messages:
    2
    http://pokemondb.net/pokedex/dragonite
    Dragonite@ dragon gem
    Trait: marvel scale
    Thunder
    Hurricane
    Draco meteor
    Protect

    Modest nature

    EVs:SpAt/252 SpDef/152 Def/4 HP/100

    This is a great lead when rain is already up as it can take care of alot of pokemon and also take a few hits also. It does struggle with faster dragon or ice type pokemon but with its abilitie it is almost always garanteed to deal some damage back. This was a great addition to my rain team
  6. Azaleaf

    Azaleaf

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2012
    Messages:
    5
    I'm not completely sure whether you understood the definition for word "lead" in this case or not.
  7. jaderichard

    jaderichard

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2012
    Messages:
    2
    Dragonite opening with politoed in doubles is a gd lead. Its gd at dealing massive damage
  8. DudeOfTheCentury

    DudeOfTheCentury

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2012
    Messages:
    6
    I love to lead with Zoroark disguised as Toxicroak. A lot of people in 5th gen love to lead with Reuniclus when they see a Toxicroak in the team preview. Dark Pulse to the face from a max Sp.A Zoroark is nothing to play around with.
  9. Boondocker

    Boondocker

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2009
    Messages:
    382
    Not having SR sucks, as does not being to do anything against Skarm/Fortress. Everything about it is solid though. Endeavor and Superpower should both get slashes too. Superpower is probably better then EQ nowadays.

    I completely agree. I have a friend who uses a team i gave her and she always leads with Sash Ditto. Its hard for teams to get an upper hand against it because its...well Ditto. Coppying Voltturners and hazzard users is what it does best.
  10. DudeOfTheCentury

    DudeOfTheCentury

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2012
    Messages:
    6
    I would replace Protect with Surf. It might sound weird but, but I used a rain team with it in a local tournament, and it destroyed. I also like to use a Expert Belt just because I think Pokemon with good coverage need to hit harder.
  11. Antihaxxer

    Antihaxxer

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2012
    Messages:
    430
    Type coverage : Ground, Rock, Fire, Water, Flying, Grass, Bug, Fighting, Dragon

    -> Expert Belt is a must =)

    Maybe Waterfall instead of Surf/Protect, to hit hard Chansey/Blissey on Physical side (134 attack + Rain with minimum investment could be cool), and it gives also a physical attack when DM reduces your Sp.Att
  12. The Silent Storm

    The Silent Storm

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2010
    Messages:
    99
    Very interesting thread here, it's nice to see that the concept of Lead isn't truly dead with Team preview.

    So...
    [​IMG]
    Terrakion @ Focus Sash Trait: Justified
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge
    - Stealth Rock
    - Taunt


    Quite unexpected, fast SR User who at the same times scares off the opponent, we all know how scary is the fight+rock coverage as of now, Terrakion is truly an amazing sr user, since he causes many switchs, most of the time he can also weaken the opposing team, gold examples here would be Breloom and Scizor, who will take a good blow against Focus Sash Terrakion.
  13. Jukain

    Jukain fuck redew
    is a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2011
    Messages:
    3,597
    Yeah but you have to take into account that it also denies you momentum that you get from hazards and U-turn/Volt Switch users.

    @jaderichard: huh that's a neat set alright, I would never use that because I personally think that it's a waste of a Dragonite, but to each their own.

    Anyway, I figured I would bring up Dugtrio for sun teams as a lead. The fact is, so many people lead with their weather inducers, so if you predict that and lead with Duggy, you get an immediate advantage. Plus you get up free rocks.
  14. Alexander.

    Alexander.
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2012
    Messages:
    1,663
    I would post this here...

    [​IMG]
    Aerodactyl (M) @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Rock Head
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Taunt
    - Earthquake
    - Fire Blast / Stone Edge

    Aerodactyl suicide-lead can work also in BW. Stealth Rock and Taunt are mainstream, EQ hits something, and Fire Blast is mainly for Forretress, Ferrothorn and Skarmory. Ah, Stone Edge hits hard dragons and Rotom-W but honestly I think Fire Blast is better than Stone Edge in the current metagame. I suggest you to try this beast for hyper offense teams.
  15. Celever

    Celever

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2012
    Messages:
    2,632
    Not exactly surprising, but, who cares!
    [​IMG]
    With:
    Spikes
    Stealth rock
    Power whip
    Leech seed.

    The great thing is, is that this thing's power whip takes down Starmies and Politoeds, no boost needed! I once took down 3 pokemon in a row with this thing and it's power whip, and one was a salamence! (Who seemed adamant on using fire blast, it never did hit ferrothorn.) Pretty self-explanatory here, isn't it.
  16. StairFall

    StairFall

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2012
    Messages:
    196
    Aren't spikes/rocks/seeds not possible to have all on the same set? Or did B/W2 change that?
  17. voodoo pimp

    voodoo pimp Apply directly to the forehead
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2010
    Messages:
    2,965
    Spikes/Leech Seed is possible through Cacturne, and SR is a tutor now.
  18. TaBuu

    TaBuu

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2012
    Messages:
    493
    Choice Scarf Genesect.
    Offensive Volcarona.
    SR Terrakion.
    Shell Smash Cloyster.
    Rotom-Heat.
  19. TGMD

    TGMD +Biosci: you both gave me crabs
    is a Tutoris a Battle Server Moderatoris a Team Rater Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
    Tournament Winner

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2011
    Messages:
    978
    Kaboom Mew is an amazing lead:
    [​IMG]
    Mew @ Normal Gem
    Trait: Synchronize
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Taunt
    - Explosion
    - Tailwind

    This Mew is awesome, I first saw it on the ladder a few times, and then later I saw a variant with Tailwind on Jimbon's RMT: Weird Fish. This Mew is a lead for HO teams, and an effective one at that. This thing can provide Stealth Rocks, and then use Explosion to "spin block" (Rapid Spin only spins away hazards if it hits, as long as the opposing Rapid Spinner is slower than Mew, you can not only prevent hazards, but Mew will likely KO the opponent / bring it into KO range for one something else in your team.) A max attack, Normal Gem boosted Explosion is going to be OHKOing about 95% of pokemon that don't resist it, which is great because people don't usually bring out their steel-types against Mew, fearing more common moves found on Mew, like Fire Blast, so it's very likely Mew will get a kill. Taunt not only prevents opponents getting up their hazards, it also makes a great combination with Explosion, because it can prevent the opponent from using Protect on the Explosion. Tailwind is in the last slot, and although you won't get a chance to set-up a Tailwind in most matches, every now and then you'll be able to Tailwind, Explode, then bring in a sweeper that's particularly dangerous when it can outspeed everything, if this happens you'll likely be in an amazing position from the very start of the match. The 4 Defense EVs are to give Genesect a Special Attack boost rather than an Attack boost, this is because U-Turn is much more common than Bug Buzz, and if they go for Bug Buzz instead of U-Turn; it prevents the opponent from gaining momentum when you switch Mew out. Overall, this Mew is like a very bulky Azelf, with far more suprise factor and access to Tailwind. The suprise factor it provides is often enough to catch the opponent off guard. This suprise factor may even let you KO the opposing team's counter to your sweeper with Explosion, which may even result in a sweep that your opponent couldn't prevent after they'd unexpectantly lost that sweeper's counter. Meaning, this Mew can win you the game in the first 2 turns.
  20. Sacaen

    Sacaen

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2012
    Messages:
    90
    I've been using Cresselia as a lead, with Espeon support.

    [​IMG]
    Cresselia @ Light Clay
    Ability: Levitate
    Nature: Bold
    EVs: 252 hp, 148 def, 40 SpD, 68 Spe
    Light Screen
    Reflect
    Thunder Wave
    Ice Beam/Lunar Dance

    She can set up screens on pretty much every attacking lead in the game and many times have enough health left to come in and do it again later. Thunderwave additionally helps cripple your opponents team making it easier for both her to set up screens and whatever you send in after Cress.

    Cresselia as a lead isn't complete without Espeon (or Xatu) to reflect back all the hazards and status aimed at Cresselia, and combined with one of the two magic bouncers and proper prediction makes for a lead combo that can take on essentially everything.

    Between Cresselia and Espeon there are only a handful of leads that can give them trouble:
    -A set up sweeper that has substitute, volt absorb, or is ground type (preventing cress from paralyzing them).
    - Bug Buzz Genesect (it doesn't OHKO, but means cress can only set up 1 screen, but will usually paralyze Genesect in the process, and I consider a paralyzed genesect a win in my book), U turn on the other hand is much more common and only does ~30%.
    -An espeon switch can be pretty predictable with team preview, so leads that commonly set up hazards but attack instead can severely hurt Espeon.
  21. eckae

    eckae

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2013
    Messages:
    129
    I also use espeon but i use a different set (shown below)
    i screen set and switch to mew who has nasty plot-rock polish-baton pass-thunder

    Espeon @ Light Clay
    Trait: Magic Bounce
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Reflect
    - Light Screen
    - Psychic
    - Baton Pass

    light clay extends reflect/screen 3 turns allows me to switch to skarm to lay down spikes/rocks on heavy teams or to mew to bulk up, get fast and baton pass to latia or heatran or speed up and switch to choiceband dragonite.. my team definitely has holes, but i'm doing pretty well for having started a few weeks ago.

    I like this new espeon set though, it would allow me to have a pokemon other than mew to bulk up and pass.
  22. Pan.

    Pan.

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2007
    Messages:
    221
    If I see a slow team on the oponnents side, then I usually start with my Gliscor, setup a Substitute, Pass it to Keldeo and start a sweep. The only few pokemon, that resist my Secret Sword / Hydro Pump & Hidden Power Electric-Combo are Jellicent (spdef), Amoonguss & Tentacruel, where latter is usually setup-fodder for CM-Keldeo.

    Gliscor @ Toxic-Orb
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def or 252 Def / 176 Def / rest Spe
    Impish Nature
    ~ Substitute
    ~ Baton Pass
    ~ Taunt
    ~ Earthquake

    Taunt shuts down Ferrothorn & Skarmory / Forretress and makes it easier for Gliscor to setup a Substitute and pass it to its team members :)
  23. Dark Fallen Angel

    Dark Fallen Angel FIDDLESTICKS IS ALSO GOOD ON MID!

    Joined:
    May 23, 2012
    Messages:
    799
    I have been using this as a lead for my hyper-offensive team:

    [​IMG]
    Deoxys-D @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Trick
    - Spikes
    - Stealth Rock
    - Taunt

    What many people are tired of complain is how Deo-D teams are destroyed by things like Double Dance Thundurus-T and Volcarona. This set attempts to fix this problem. Your opponent will never see that coming: Trick a Choice Scarf on the opponent, and they will be instantly locked on their setup move. It is funny to see how the opponent instantly rages when they see their Volcarona locked on Quiver Dance, their Thundurus-T locked on Agility, their Terrakion locked on Rock Polish, etc.

    This set isn't useless apart from surprising setup sweepers. It has a lot of utility outside that. For example, you can use Trick against a Rapid Spinner. While this does not prevent them from using Rapid Spin to spin away your hard work, at least this can make them think twice before spinning, as you can take advantage of this to have a free switch to almost anything you want, for example, a setup sweeper of your own.

    I have a problem with this set, however. I don't know which would be the best option on the last slot. I have been using Taunt, but sometimes disabling the opponent with Choice Scarf + Trick was sufficient, and being locked on Taunt was never a good idea on the first place. Speaking of which, this is the main problem of this set; it tends to have problems if you don't Trick away the Choice Scarf first. This is alleviated by the fact that Spikes is one of the moves being used, and Deoxys-D can usually afford to be locked on Spikes.
  24. Bossness

    Bossness

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2011
    Messages:
    433
    @Dark Fallen Angel, that Deoxys-D set should use Thunderwave instead of Stealth Rock. You are overloading its work and there will be times when you will not be able to set up Stealth Rock.

    With Thunderwave, you can trick away the scarf on a set-up sweeper on turn 1 and then Thunderwave the switch-in the next turn.
  25. Jukain

    Jukain fuck redew
    is a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2011
    Messages:
    3,597
    Oh hey, this thread got revived :o

    I've seen that set a couple of times, Dark Fallen Angel, and I must say, it's quite a surprise to face. For that last slot, would a status move be worth a try? For example, you could use Thunder Wave, and since Deoxys-D is pretty fast with a Choice Scarf, it could cripple Pokemon like Latios and Keldeo that don't mind the Choice Scarf as much. Spreading paralysis also helps if you have a slower sweeper or what have you. You could also use Toxic, which gives Deoxys-D a good way to hit Jellicent and Hippowdon, among other bulky annoyances.

    In a similar vein, I've been enjoying TrickScarf Jirachi as a lead lately. The set itself is pretty standard:

    [pimg]385[/pimg]
    Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Trick
    - Iron Head
    - Ice Punch
    - U-turn

    A lot of people on the ladder seem to expect Jirachi to sit there and set up Stealth Rock on the first turn. I've been finding this set effective at crippling those opponents on the first turn. Generally, the Pokemon in question gets stuck with a Choice Scarf, and then I go for the U-turn and get a Pokemon in for free, usually something like a Spiker or what have you. This is also insanely helpful against Deoxys-D, as many start the game off with Stealth Rock, only to be unable to set up any Spikes and having to take a super effective U-turn in addition to whatever the next Pokemon I bring out has to offer.

    However, I don't have to Trick the Scarf away first turn. If I want to cripple something different, all I have to do is U-turn out and I still get another Pokemon in for free. Unless it's something like a CB tar (which of course has Pursuit), there's not much any opponent can do about it. I get to scout in this scenario too, which helps me out later on in the match.

    This set really helps setting up hazards early-game, which is one of the main reasons I like it so much: say I have a Deoxys-D; if this set does its job, then it is in the clear to set up Spikes. For this reason, I've been using it to support a hazard-centric offensive team.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)