OU Playstyles - Week #01 [Hyper Offense]

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by LilOuOn, Feb 8, 2013.

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  1. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn run for your life
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    some hyper offense sets that should be considered when teambuilding:

    gengar @ life orb / leftovers
    trait: levitate
    evs: 252 satk / 4 sdef / 252 spd
    timid nature
    - substitute
    - disable / pain split
    - shadow ball
    - focus blast

    the premier spinblocker for hyper offensive teams to utilize. makes a great pair with taunt or magic coat deo-d variants, set up hazards and then prevent them from being spun away is always a solid strategy. gengar obvious has trouble handling starmie, though, so you might want to consider also running some sort of pursuit trapper to get rid of it, such as

    tyranitar @ choice band
    trait: sand stream
    evs: 160 hp / 252 atk 96 spd
    adamant nature
    - crunch
    - pursuit
    - stone edge
    - superpower

    another near-essential on deo-d hyper offense teams. makes a great partner for the hazard setter by removing starmie with ease, and serves as an excellent utility weather check as well, especially for pursuit trapping ninetales and cb crunching politoed. also handles the lati twins, which generally give ho some issues. all in all, a good choice for any team.

    in addition to the standard deo-d, gengar, and cbtar core, i generally slap on two sweepers and a scarfed revenge killer. good choices for the former two are lucario, terrakion, breloom, scizor, landorus, landorus-t, thundurus-t, and dragonite. the best scarfers include latios, terrakion, keldeo, landorus, and salamence. you probably don't need sets for any of those, but i can post the generic ones if need be.
  2. BettaOffDead

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    Unless your team has some scarf users of your own, defensive synergy IS necessary or else scarf users will assrape you. Sure defensive synergy isn't essential for doing lots of damage but if you have 4 dragons on your team a scarfer is going to have a field day playing against your team unless you have a scarf user of your own.

    I personally dislike Choice Scarf since the idea of being stuck in one move without any sort of power boost is very unappealing to me. I find that you generally can't go wrong with defensive synergy when you pack a steel and dragon type on the same team. Especially when you have three other pokemon who all have different typings.
  3. LilOuOn

    LilOuOn

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    Added suggested sets to the OP. Remember that you must give a brief explanation of why that pokemon should be considered when building an HO team. Try to export the set of the pokemon so it would be easier to import.

    EDIT: No gimmicks please, read the rules first.
  4. Deluks917

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    The current person on top of the ladder is running aerodactyl + dusclop on HO. Any comments on this?

    edit: no longer number 1 :(
  5. Melee Mewtwo

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    Defensive synergy means a collaboration of defensive typing or raw bulk that allows a group of Pokemon to complement each other to strong check/counter threats defensively. HO doesn't need this. They'll want bulk/resistances to help set up or stop sweeps (normally just barely) but you aren't going to try to build a core that can switch around to strong check/counter threats. Obviously, an HO team will appreciate any defensive synergy it gets but that isn't going to be a focus. It's mostly just an afterthought so that a Scizor or something doesn't 6-0 your team.
  6. DarkBlazeR

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    Uh, Aerodactyl is cool yeah but Dusclops seems like a terrible Pokémon on HO teams because it kills your offensive momentum. I'm really not sure how that guy could've possibly had so much success with it, but whatever.

    On the topic of spin blockers, I think Sableye is an underrated choice. Sure, it may be rather lacking in terms of offense, but it has the potential to be really disruptive thanks to Prankster, whereas Dusclops is easily used as fodder. Sableye can be incredibly useful when fighting other HO teams as it can both stop them from getting hazards up and spread Burn throughout their team. It also helps greatly when it comes to breaking through stall.
  7. Takion

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    Lucario @ Life Orb
    Trait: Justified/Inner Focus
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpA)
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    - Swords Dance
    - ExtremeSpeed
    - Close Combat
    - Crunch/Bullet Punch/Ice Punch

    One of the best abusers of priority, this pokemon is a must tryout for Hyper offense. After a SD, the attack is raised to an amazing 700 and very few pokemon can laugh of a +2 close combat. Bullet punches get rid of Terrakions, Ice Punch for Gliscors and Landorus-T, and crunch for those bulky psychics. Use the move slot depending on your teams weakness. Extremespeed provides a +2 Priority, that allows you to OHKO most the meta after stealth rock, not to mention the pokemon that are attracted to Deo-D will usually get hurt by Lucario.
  8. Nova

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    With the absence of Deoxys-D on the suspect ladder, I've faced many different players using "substitute" Pokemon in order to serve as an entry hazard setter for HO teams. These include the likes of Crustle, Aerodactyl, Frosslass, and Forretress. Personally, I think Frosslass is the most effective in this role do her fast speed that gives an even faster Taunt than Deoxys-D and her Ghost typing that allows her to be one of the few entry hazard setters that also serves as a spin blocker.

    Another common thing I've seen on HO teams recently are Dual Screen setters instead of entry hazard setters. Usually it's Azelf or Espeon, both fast Pokemon that can set up screens quickly and prevent entry hazards from going up (Azelf with a fast Taunt, Espeon with Magic Bounce). Screens support is great as it easily allows for a set up sweeper to get off a setup move or two and potentially sweep.
  9. ThunderBlunder

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    I don't know if it has been said already, but Rain Dance users, primarily Kingdra is really fantastic with all the rain being thrown around. Rain Dance variants are also really good as cleaners for Hyper Offense, as with SR and Spikes it really just destroys anything that doesn't resist its hits. This set is the best


    Kingdra (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Swift Swim
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Rain Dance
    - Hydro Pump
    - Draco Meteor
    - Dragon Pulse

    With that speed and Modest, you hit 269 Speed, which under rain gives you 538. The benchmark you want to hit is really enough to outspeed Scarf Latios which hits 525, but really 7 extra HP evs aren't going to do anything for you so you might as well run max in case you approach another Kingdra. Hydro Pump is a nuke and does something ridiculous like 40% to spD Rotom and Draco is your nuke, even though must of the time you're going to be pressing Hydro Pump. Kingdra is underrated all in all and people should use it more.

    oh yeah and Specs Kingdra, which is also pretty good on offense, completely manhandles sand
  10. Subject 18

    Subject 18 Musharna the Baton Pass Counter is here!
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    [​IMG]

    Landorus (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Sheer Force
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid/Modest Nature
    - Earth Power
    - Focus Blast
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Rock Polish

    I didnt see this one posted yet. Landorus-I is a huge threat and works great for Hyper Offense. After Special Wall like the pink blob and you shouldn't have too much issue as long as Focus Blast will hit. You basically come to force a switch and set a Rock Polish and proceed to sweep.
  11. Takion

    Takion

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    While I do agree with you on L.I being a great sweeper, he is completely walled by Blissey

    252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey: 260-307 (39.87 - 47.08%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

    One toxic, and it beats on L.I. However, he isn't exactly meant to wall break, he's meant to use late game.
  12. ZapDraws

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    Hyper offense can be derailed fairly easily by hazards, especially in the mirror. That's why seeking out the slightest advantages can be imperative. Did your opponent set up rocks and spikes? You know that a Gengar will surely appear if you bring out that spinner. Often overlooked, Ring Target on a spinner guarantees that it connects and clears those threats.

    Personally, I favor speed as the most important element. I run a Tyranitar with the following spread and set:
    Nature - Hasty EVs: 4HP 252Atk 252Spe
    Item: Expert Belt
    Earthquake
    Crunch
    Ice Beam
    Thunder Punch

    This thing kicks the crap out of opposing teams. While he does not have an actual rock STAB attack, Ice Beam has proven to hit hard, be far more consistent, and devastates dragons, ripping apart opposing Dragonites, Salamances, and Lati twins. Hurts grass types quite a bit, too. The expert belt gives his attacks a slight boost, making the wide coverage spread even more dangerous. Focusing on speed allows him to hit first in most cases, but losing little power due to the belt.

    It's an unusual build, but he's been the undisputed MVP of my team, and often takes out multiple Pokemon every single battle. I've had opponents quit as soon as the first Ice Beam is unleashed. That right there is the definition of hyper offense.
  13. Deluks917

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    Has anyone had good success with wobbuffet. I figured it would be very useful to beat choice scarf pokes.

    I used wobb + SD garchomp + LO Latios + Scarf Salamence. It worked pretty well. But possibly there is a better shell for it. Encore nerf kinda sucks.
  14. Subject 18

    Subject 18 Musharna the Baton Pass Counter is here!
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    Oh he's not. I meant to say in my post "After Special wall like the pink blobs are gone..." I ended leaving out the are gone part (im tired). And yes he is solely a late game sweeper.
  15. Takion

    Takion

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    Expert belt is a genius idea. Fools a choice band, not to mention great coverage.
  16. Tassa

    Tassa

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    I had the same idea myself, and after 1-2 test it is pretty cool even if it don't like to see Volturn + Fire attack. I set a Custap Berry, it looks like pretty cool, ability of a free spikes/Explosion if your opponent set you in the 25% range is pretty cool and Sturdy helps. After, the sweep can start.
    What would you use as object ? Mental Herb could permit a layer even against taunter, mayber. It remains clear that Deo-D is superior in most cases, even if the Explosion bonus is pretty nice.
  17. DarkBlazeR

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    Actually, to my knowledge, Ring Target does the opposite of what you've claimed it does. It makes the holder able to be hit by attacks it is usually immune to, and not the other way around. Unless your opponent is dumb enough to make their Ghost type hold a Ring Target, I wouldn't expect you're going to be spinning on them anytime soon (the exception being Foresight/Odor Sleuth of course).

    Besides, even if it did allow for a guaranteed spin, I'm pretty sure it would have been discovered by now...
  18. ZapDraws

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    You're right. Aside from Tricking it onto them, it's pretty useless. My mistake.
  19. Shurtugal

    Shurtugal Intelligence is a curse.
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    Offense is a great playstyle to talk about, especially since its the playstyle that our current suspect thrives in!

    DeoD adds a whole new level to offense. With the ability to set up SR + 2Spikes, weather teams are now afraid of something other than losing their weather! Sweepers that are otherwise manageable are much more threatening with the support of these fast-paced hazards! Could you imagine having to face switch into Band Terrakion after taking that much hazard damage? It's almost impossible, and don't even get me started on how much set up sweepers love DeoD (DubDance ThundyT > all spinners).

    Of course, Rain Offense is another great archetype. (Oh crap I must go so someone else mention how great Specs Torn-I still is, etc.)
  20. levenl00s

    levenl00s

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    I just made my own HO team with some pokemon posted in this thread...and it is incredibly easy to play with. So far i go undefeated with 11 wins.
    HO is, I think, the easiest playing style for beginners and I think DeoD makes HO just a little OP. The best set for Deoxys-D (who is best for most HO teams) is skill swap IMO, so you don't lose against BP teams (because the rest of the team members can usually not defeat BP)

    Here is my HO team, I would really recommend trying it out and seeing that this team requires very little skill and in my opinion is OP:
    DeoD w/ skill swap
    pain split gengar
    Rain Dance Kingdra (as some guy before me said, it fits very well on HO teams, without this you are often weak to rain)
    SDLucario
    SDScizor
    DDnite (thx for those 3 Neliel)
  21. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn run for your life
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    i could go on for a long time about rain offense and how broken it is right now, but i'll just take a brief moment to explain the distinction between hyper offense and rain offense. the term "hyper offense" actually encompasses a variety of offensive playstyles, which can include weatherless ho, sand ho, sun ho, and i've even seen hail ho done well. however, you almost never hear the term "rain hyper offense" being thrown around, and that's because it's almost impossible for a rain team, by its nature, to be hyper-offensive because politoed is such a momentum killer on most teams. it compounds team weaknesses since rain teams are always going to be running two or three water types at the least, and it's too slow for a scarf set and too weak for a specs set, so most players end up resorting to the standard defensive scald politoed, which is, by definition, decidedly not hyper-offensive. even with a choiced politoed, rain offense still isn't hyper offense because of the nature of most rain offense teams in comparison with other offensive teams. sand offense, for example, is built around maintaining pressure and hammering away at the opponent, whereas rain offense is typically attempting to remove key pokemon from play on the opponent's side of the field, maintain hazards, and set up a late-game sweep. there's a distinction to be made there, and that's why i feel that rain offense discussion should be left to another, more pertinent thread.
  22. Gimmick

    Gimmick Electric potential

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    100% agreeing with Lavos here. Oftentimes, HO teams just set up hazards and pound away at the opponent. As long as 1 of your Pokemon beats 1 of the opponent's Pokemon one after the other (plus or minus 1 or 2 because of the loss of Deo-D), then you win. Because of the hazards, there's room to just let stuff die after it kills something. There's rarely any need to switch in a true HO playstyle unless you're flat out walled by something. Rain offense is different because there's often some sort of defensive synergy. For example, in the Tornadus-T days, the bird could just switch into a weak or resisted move, fire off a Hurricane or U-turn out, and call it a pivot. Now, Tentacruel - Ferrothorn cores are springing up everywhere because they spin, lay hazards, and function as wonderful pivot switches. Rain offense switches more often than Hyper Offense to preserve sweepers or cleaners. Keldeo has usually been the Scarf of choice, so it's a cleaner and a revenge killer so it's too valuable to just let die. Other rain sweepers like Thundurus-T are used to take out threats early and sweep late game, so it's not really of a hyper offensive nature.

    Anyway, I'm surprised nobody emphasized SD Scizor yet (I know it was listed a couple times). With Deo-D's hazards, it grabs a ton of OHKOs that it wouldn't have otherwise. Also, because of the amount of water types in OU, is Quick Attack on SD Scizor a more viable option? I saw CTC using it and he got past countless Keldeos that tried to resist a +2 Bullet Punch. With prior damage, they do go down quite easily:

    Quick Attack Calcs (open)
    252 +2 Atk Life Orb Technician Scizor (+Atk) Quick Attack vs 4 HP/0 Def Keldeo: 62.96% - 74.07% (50% chance to OHKO after SR + 3 layers of Spikes).

    252 +2 Atk Life Orb Technician Scizor (+Atk) Quick Attack vs 4 HP/0 Def Politoed: 73.6% - 86.65% (87.5% chance to OHKO after SR + 1 layer of Spikes)

    252 +2 Atk Life Orb Technician Scizor (+Atk) Quick Attack vs 0 HP/4 Def Gyarados: 68.28% - 80.36% (43.75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock)

    252 +2 Atk Life Orb Technician Scizor (+Atk) Quick Attack vs 4 HP/0 Def Starmie: 81.68% - 96.18% (Guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock)

    252 +2 Atk Life Orb Technician Scizor (+Atk) Quick Attack vs 0 HP/0 Def Sharpedo: 135.23% - 159.07% (Guaranteed OHKO)

    252 +2 Atk Life Orb Technician Scizor (+Atk) Quick Attack vs 252 HP/4 Def Rotom-W: 57.89% - 68.42% (2 hits to KO) -- obviously requires a lot more weakening, but Scizor has partners.


    Obviously, I wouldn't run Quick Attack without hazards because of the calcs above, but it can be really deadly to dedicated checks. Here are some with Bullet Punch and Bug Bite:

    Bullet Punch and Bug Bite calcs (open)
    252 +2 Atk Life Orb Technician Scizor (+Atk) Bug Bite vs 248 HP/0 Def Scizor: 61.22% - 72.01% (81.25% chance to OHKO after SR + 3 layers of Spikes)

    252 +2 Atk Life Orb Technician Scizor (+Atk) Bullet Punch vs 4 HP/0 Def Chandelure: 58.4% - 68.7% (56.25% chance to OHKO after SR + 1 layer of Spikes) I had to I love Chandelure

    252 +2 Atk Life Orb Technician Scizor (+Atk) Bullet Punch vs 4 HP/0 Def Starmie: 61.07% - 72.14% (81.25% chance to OHKO after SR + 3 layers of Spikes)

    252 Atk Life Orb Technician Scizor (+Atk) Bullet Punch vs 4 HP/0 Def Breloom: 64.5% - 75.95% (62.5% chance to OHKO after SR + 3 layers of Spikes)

    252 +2 Atk Life Orb Technician Scizor (+Atk) Bug Bite vs 252 HP/252 Def Hippowdon (+Def) : 64.29% - 75.24% (56.25% chance to OHKO after SR + 3 layers of Spikes)

    252 +2 Atk Life Orb Technician Scizor (+Atk) Bullet Punch vs 4 HP/0 Def Lucario: 66.31% - 78.37% (50% chance to OHKO after SR + 3 layers of Spikes)


    I got a bit carried away. Anyway, my point is that with hazard support and prior weakening because of the nature of HO, Scizor is a great option on these teams. Obviously, you're not going to get SR + 3 layers of Spikes every battle, but since these Pokemon are worn down by other attacks or switching into hazards more than once, it's definitely plausible.
  23. Melee Mewtwo

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    So many sweepers in OU get past their typical counters with just SR + Spikes so it isn't anything special for Scizor to do. I recently tired using SD Scizor but I gave up on it as although it was powerful and easy to setup, I got tired of all the WoW Rotom's (where the standard EV spread is faster than any SD Scizor) preventing a sweep that I opted for one of the many other sweepers you can find in the tier. (I actually replaced it with Lucario and don't regret it) Quick Attack is an interesting option but only 50%ish on Rotom doesn't make me too interested in trying him again.

    I saw some mentions of Custap leads and wanted to share some of my sets. Everybody likes to say they are outclassed and unable to fill the role of Deo-D however I feel that they each have some key niches and, with the right spread, come pretty close to the same consistency.

    Forretress (M) @ Custap Berry
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 Atk
    Brave Nature
    IVs: 0 Def / 0 Spd
    - Gyro Ball
    - Rapid Spin
    - Stealth Rock
    - Spikes

    Rapid Spin is the main appeal behind Forry as it allows you to ensure that SR isn't up early game for you Dragonite, Weavile and friends. The best Deo-D can do to imitate this is Taunt slower SR setters or spam Magic Coat. (which it can't do while laying hazards and is only preventive) Gyro Ball is a must on Custap Forry as the high base power and okay 90 attack (for a supporter) allows it to bite hard many setup sweepers and speedy taunters. Explosion should never be used in its place as it leaves Forretress very vulnerable to any Sub setup sweeper. The IVs allow Forry to tank bulky Rotom's Hydro Pump after burn damage. It will obviously have a generally harder time setting up when compared to Deo-D but even just having SR up and leaving your OP with nothing is a huge advantage.

    Skarmory @ Custap Berry
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 Spd
    Hasty Nature
    IVs: 0 HP / 0 Atk / 0 Def / 0 SDef
    - Whirlwind
    - Taunt
    - Stealth Rock
    - Spikes

    This is probably the closest Custap mon to Deo-D. 70 speed may not be 90 but it is enough to outrun Bulky Rotom and Taunt things like Jellicent and other slow wallbreakers and hazard setters. The beauty behind Skarm, though, is Whirlwind when combined with Sturdy. This allows the bird to safely throw up SR in the first turn as it can abuse its ability to phaze out a greedy booster in the following turn. This set also deals with Volt-Turn better than the other Custap mons as Volt Switch will easily put it in Custap range while U-Turn will do such petty damage that you can save your Skarm for later in the worst case scenario.

    There are some other cool options you can use on Skarmory such as Tailwind (thanks doughboy) or Roost. The former allows you to abuse Custap to setup a temporary sweep for your slower team members Tornadus style. The temporary boost in speed can also be used to give Skarmory that one extra opportunity it needs to lay one of each layer. Roost helps to keep Skarmory in good condition and is a way to get around faster U-Turns, attacks that hit over 50% but fall short of 75% and forces your opponent to actually go for the kill instead of being annoying with HP Ice.

    I have used Crustle but the spread I used wasn't the best. He's an interesting choice as his typing gives him STABs with cool coverage (or EdgeQuake) while providing him with almost zero resistances allowing you to ensure that any attack puts him in low HP.
  24. Stone RG

    Stone RG Megas are broke
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    Oh crap, i was supposed to reply here like 3 days ago rofl.

    So like the op said, HO is only based around the phylosophy of the strongest one survives, and like a lot of u guys could already tell u rarely, if ever, switch while using generic Hyper-Offense. Before geting into the pokes, i think a lot of us forget one of the huge gaps in HO: sun offense, im not really an expert at it, but im pretty sure in the genesect days sun offense just demolished HO just by getting rocks up and keeping venusaur healthy, i think thats a huge weakness in our playstyle, and i should ask the question, how do we solve it? Without further ado, lets get on with the representative HO members.

    Scizor @ Life Orb/Lum Berry
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 252 Att/252 Spd/4 Def
    Adamant nature
    - Swords Dance
    - Bug Bite
    - Bullet Punch
    - Superpower

    Standard offensive SD scizor, a note on this set: this shouldnt EVER be your main physical sweeper, its way too slow to straight up sweep an offensive team, hell even balanced, but it will shit on stall hard. I consider this more of a ''support'' poke in HO, since +2 LO superpower does 70%< to standard skarm, this turns dnite suddenly into a mayor win condition, i would reccomend using it alongside DD dragonite, or sub salac terrakion in case theres no chance for an SD. Lum is slashed there since it lets scizor bypass 1 scald burn and lets it set up on sp def Rotom W (often meaning game to a sand team in the latter).


    Salamence @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Moxie
    EVs: 252 Att/252 Spd/4 SpA
    Naive Nature
    - Outrage
    - Dragon Claw
    - Earthquake
    - Fire Blast

    Funny i was talking about dnite 2 seconds ago, now this should only be used as a late game sweeper, or a really desperate revenge killer, thats just my thoughts. Outrage works usually for the sheer power it comes with, and if youre feeling lucky, or those kills are life or death situations, this is the move to stick to, however, if youre like me and wanna avoid hax as much as possible, dragon claw is probably a better choice, and the move most of the time is being used in this set. Fire blast and eq serve only as coverage moves. Note: mence is also helped by offensive sd scizor, since it lets it get pass its most common counter: Skarmory, after rocks.
  25. LilOuOn

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    @MeleeMewto: Thanks for your suggestions, however, I'll not add them to the OP since Deo-D is a better option (for now). if Deo-D gets banned, be sure that Im going to add them.
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