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OU Playstyles - Week #02 [Sand Offense]

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by LilOuOn, Feb 15, 2013.

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  1. LilOuOn

    LilOuOn

    Joined:
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    Approved by Haunter, Birkal and Huntofthelion​

    OU Playstyles

    By LilOu. With collaboration of Stoned RG. Special thanks to Shurtugal.

    Welcome to the OU discussion of the different playstyles! The main purpose of this thread is to choose a playstyle every week (I'll choose it) and you, (yes, you), are going to be able to comment, give your opinion and suggest pokemons that should be considered when making a team around the style [posting teams is also allowed, just keep in mind that this is not the RMT forums, so if you want to post a team try to make it short and use sprites of pokes, explain how does the team work and post replays if possible]. Obviously, your comments must have connection with the chosen style, as well as solid arguments of why your comment(s) are valid. With this, newer players can decide what playstyle they like most and, of course, more experienced players can also expand their knowledge. Remember to be friendly with other people; if you disagree with someone's opinion don't slam with an aggressive response, just let everyone know what you think in a kind way. The links to discussions of each playstyle will be posted in the OP so everyone can read it at anytime!

    Don't be afraid of posting! If you have a great offense, stall, etc team, just think about what to say and go for it! Don't forget that participating in this kind of threads gives you opportunity to earn that awesome Community Contributor badge! Be careful of what do you post! Quality posts will be rewarded, but mediocre comments will be infracted. Do your best and I hope that you like to contribute this thread!


    Summary of the rules (Must read):
    • Make quality posts. No one-lined posts.
    • Your comments must be about the weekly playstyle chosen.
    • No gimmicks. If you decided to post a team (or pokemon) don't suggest using pursuit Tauros to trap Celebi or Latios while there is an overall better option named Tyranitar.
    • Comment how the chosen style affects the current metagame and how it fairs in it.
    • Support your team's posts with replays if possible. Explanation of them are a must.
    • Having a wide point of view is needed. Don't post that stall sucks because you always lose to it.
    • Your new ideas must have strong arguments of why them should be considered.
    • This one is important: We don't want this to become a debate of: "this metagame is stale and has no diversity due to weather". This thread is here to make a discussion about the different playstyles, not to discharge all your hate against weather. Please, incoherent posts will be deleted and possibly penalized, so think about what are you going to write.


    Past Discussions:




    Week #02: Sand Offense


    [​IMG]

    Sandstream, some love it, some hate it. But, want it or not, it is one of the main weathers here in OU. Some pokemons were blessed with the ability to summon a sandstorm, others, just benefit from it. But, what kind of pokemons benefit from it? Who is better? Tyranitar? Hippowdon? What can I do against rain? And against sun? Which pokemon should I use?

    This is the second week! Go for it and thanks to everyone!
  2. LilOuOn

    LilOuOn

    Joined:
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    Archive:

    Sets you can consider when teambuilding (open)


    [​IMG]
    Alakazam @ Focus Sash/Life Orb
    Trait: Magic Guard
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Hidden Power Ice/Hidden Power Fire
    - Focus Blast
    - Psyshock
    - Shadow Ball

    Alakazam works really well in sand. Magic Guard allows it not to take Sand damage, entry hazards and Status. It makes a deadly revenge killer and late game cleaner with the Sash you are guaranteed live at least one hit and increases your chances to pull of a sweep. Life orb could also be use for extra power though generally Focus Sash is preferred. Psyshock is a godsend to hit the pink blobs for good damage. Hidden Power Ice is slashed with Hidden Power Fire to deal with either Dragons or Scizor.

    Author: BlackRussian


    [​IMG]
    Keldeo @ Choice Scarf/Specs
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Hydro Pump
    - Surf / Icy Wind
    - Secret Sword
    - Hidden Power Ice / Ghost


    Keldeo can be used as an offensive check to rain teams, being able to send out insanely powerful rain-boosted Hydro Pumps. Tyranitar also makes the perfect partner to Keldeo, with only Amoongus being able to shake off Tyranitar's Pursuit (though I believe it is 2HKO'd by Banded-Stone Edge). Once the counters are out of the way, Specs Keldeo can demolish everything in its path especially if you are fighting a rain team. Scarf Keldeo makes one of the best revenge killers, and with the right prediction, you can KO almost everything in the tier.

    Author: Halcyon of Light


    [​IMG]
    Latias @ Life Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Draco Meteor
    - Surf
    - Hidden Power Fire / Psyshock
    - Roost / Recover


    Latias is another great team member for Sand Offense, as it handles Rain and sun teams nicely. Though this particular set might miss the "immunity" to sand damage that Leftovers provides, the extra power that Life Orb gives is fantastic, and Roost allows you more freedom with your attacks. Latias is a great check to opposing Keldeo, Venusaur, and Breloom, which can usually give sand teams trouble and all of which can be OHKO'd by Psyshock. Surf prevents it from being completely walled by Heatran, and also allows you to do SOME damage to Tyranitar if you are in a situation where it traps you.

    Author: Halcyon of Light


    [​IMG]
    Keldeo @ Expert Belt / Choice Specs / Mystic Water
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Hydro Pump
    - Secret Sword
    - Hidden Power [Electric]
    - Icy Wind


    Expert Belt Keldeo is very useful on sandstorm teams, because it works as a lure for many things that could give them problems, such as Chlorophyll sweepers like Venusaur, as well as sweepers like Sheer Force Landorus, and opposing Terrakion. However, if you feel that you need more power on neutral hits, feel free to use Choice Specs or Mystic Water. The difference from Mystic Water to Choice Specs is that it doesn't lock Keldeo on one attack, but offers less power, and only powers up Hydro Pump. That said, Choice Specs Keldeo is very useful alongside Choice Band Tyranitar because the latter defeats most counters to the former, and then Keldeo can spam powerful Hydro Pumps that even though are not rain-boosted, are still very powerful (for example, Keldeo can OHKO Scizor with Hydro Pump if boosted by Specs - it is very hard to OHKO Scizor with something other than a Fire-type attack). However, Expert Belt is very useful to fool your opponent. Expert Belt tends to be more useful against offensive teams, while Specs is better against more defensive ones. Choose which you think that it is the best. Expert Belt is now my favorite because it does not get locked on an attack. Also, Keldeo can still deal with many threats that it could OHKO with Hydro Pump, such as the aforementioned Scizor; even with Expert Belt, Scizor will be 2HKOed with a combination of Hydro Pump followed by Secret.

    Author: Dark Fallen Angel


    [​IMG]
    Celebi @ Life Orb / Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 180 SAtk / 84 SDef / 244 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Nasty Plot
    - Giga Drain
    - Psychic / Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Hidden Power [Fire] / Earth Power


    Nasty Plot Celebi is a good special attacker for sandstorm teams because it defeats rain teams, which are a problem for sandstorm because of their natural advantage against sand. This Celebi can still check Sheer Force Landorus and Keldeo effectively, although be wary - the lack of defensive investiment means that Celebi should take care to not take too many repeated hits from the aforementioned threats. Normally, I would not use on a sandstorm team a sweeper that took passive damage from sandstorm, especially if it had to use Life Orb as an item, because it would certainly die too quickly to passive damage from sand and recoil from Life Orb. Giga Drain, however, changes the situation. Celebi can use Giga Drain to recover HP and defeat bulky Water-types at same time. Then, you should use what you will use to cover Dragon-types; Psychic or Hidden Power Ice. Psychic is a stronger STAB than Giga Drain, and is useful on situations where Giga Drain is not sufficiently powerful, and it can also defeat Fighting-types. HP Ice, however, is a better way to defeat Dragon-types, because it does not leave Celebi walled by Hydreigon and Lati@s, and can defeat Dragonite and Salamence without a boost, as well as quickly dispose of Sheer Force Landorus. Then, decide what you will use to defeat Steel-types; Hidden Power Fire, or Earth Power. HP Fire disposes of all Steel-types, except Heatran, and Jirachi if it's raining. If the latter two threats prove to be troublesome, then you should use Earth Power. Earth Power cover Heatran and rain Jirachi, and can still cover many Steel-types; however, it fails to cover Steel-types not weak to Ground, such as specially defensive Scizor, Ferrothorn, Skarmory, and Bronzong.

    Author: Dark Fallen Angel


    [​IMG]
    Heatran (M) @ Air Balloon
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Fire Blast
    - Earth Power
    - Hidden Power [Ice] / Hidden Power [Grass]
    - Taunt / Flame Charge / Stealth Rock


    Heatran is a better way to deal with Steel-types than using Ground- or Fighting-type sweepers. Also, many sun threats are surprisingly dangerous to sandstorm teams, especially if they manage to boost and get their speed or have their STAB doubled. Also, Heatran deals with many Dragon-types that Tyranitar cannot, namely Dragonite. It can also support the team with Stealth Rock if necessary, and is one of the best users.

    Author: Dark Fallen Angel


    [​IMG]
    Landorus (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Sand Force
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
    - U-turn
    - Hidden Power [Ice] / Explosion


    A good revenge killer for sandstorm teams, it is peharps the best one. Because Landorus is at one point above many threats that fall short of its Speed tier, it is an excellent revenge killer, and often can sweep late-game with a boosted Earthquake. Speaking of which, Earthquake is its main move, while Stone Edge offer coverage against most things immune to Earthquake. It is also a good move to use if Volcarona is at good health, instantly KOing it - though after Stealth Rock damage, Earthquake can already OHKO Volcarona. U-Turn also separates him from other revenge killers like Keldeo and Garchomp, as if your opponent has a counter to your Pokémon, you can simply switch out and scout it. Hidden Power Ice is a more accurate move to use against Dragon-types, and also revenge kills opposing Landorus, as well as Gliscor; but it can be replaced by Explosion, which despite the nerf, is still stronger than even Sand Force-boosted Earthquake, and can be used as a last-resort move.

    Author: Dark Fallen Angel


    [​IMG]
    Landorus (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Sand Force
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Swords Dance / Rock Polish
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
    - Gravity / Rock Polish / Hidden Power [Ice]


    Swords Dance is an underrated set for Landorus. It is extremely powerful, and with Gravity, Landorus can remove the opponent's immunities to Earthquake, which means that you can simply nuke the opposing team; This is because although there are many things immune to Earthquake, there aren't actually much Pokémon that resist Earthquake (there are only 2 OU pokémon that resist Ground! And only one of them, Celebi, can actually take repeated Earthquakes, as the other, Breloom, is too frail to do this). It can also use Rock Polish instead of Swords Dance if you want Landorus to simply be a sweeper, and not a wallbreaker. Landorus can also opt to use both Swords Dance and Rock Polish to form a Double Dance set - although options like Terrakion would seem better for this job, Landorus offer better defensive synergy to the team than Terrakion, and is able to fool opponents on thinking that you are using a special Sheer Force set - which can often catch them off-guard. However, this Landorus should be played with care, as it often needs some extra turns to setup, and this is not easy on such metagame. However, the payoff that this set offers, compared to other Landorus' sets, is higher.

    Author: Dark Fallen Angel


    [​IMG]
    Stoutland @ Choice Band / Life Orb
    Sand Rush
    4 Hp / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Adamant / Jolly nature
    ~ Return
    ~ Superpower
    ~ Crunch
    ~ Wild Charge / Ice Fang / Fire Fang


    Stoutland reaches a mind boggling combination of 518 speed and 492 attack under sand with a choice band equipped. Return is a very powerful STAB move with good neutral coverage that will decimate anything that isn't especially bulky or resistant to the move. Superpower takes care of Steel- and Rock-types looking to sponge Return, while Crunch catches incoming Ghost-type switch ins. The last slot lets you better deal with certain threats. Wild Charge takes care of bulky Water-types - but watch out for the recoil! Ice Fang ensures a 2HKO on Gliscor or Landorus-T, 'mons that avoid a 2HKO from Return. Fire Fang can be used against Scizor and Foretress if they are especially problematic for your team, but this is not recommended. Stoutland can use LO instead of CB. This will facilitate its late-game sweep, allowing it to switch moves, but it may miss on some crucial OHKO/2HKOes. Adamant is the preferred nature due to the power boost, but Jolly can be used to lure in unsuspecting Terrakion and Keldeo, who otherwise outspeed Stoutland by 1 point.

    Author: ClubbingSealCub


    [​IMG]
    Sandslash (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Sand Rush
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Swords Dance
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
    - Rapid Spin


    Sandslash is really fun to use and it's the Pokemon I used in every single match of the second Minitour which I won. It's really underrated as a sweeper and a spinner due to it's frailness. It has a good base 100 Attack which its 299 (really, don't run adamant, you can't outspeed stuff like Scarfrachi then.) 299 atk backed with Life Orb is 389 and it hits hard with EdgeQuake coverage as well as getting of a spin which sand needs to do so it can handle rain.
    Don't try to run X-scissor over Rapid Spin. Sandslash usually does not end up 6-0ing teams, usually it takes out 2-3 guys before dying which is its job as well as to spin. Rapid spin is really good vs HO as Gengar gets absolutely destroyed by an LO Stone edge after rocks and you outspeed the things on HO.

    Author: ThunderBlunder


    [​IMG]
    Sandslash @ Life Orb / Leftovers
    Trait: Sand Rush
    EVs: 252 atk / 8 def / 248 spd
    Jolly nature
    - Earthquake
    - Stone edge
    - Rapid spin
    - X-scissor / Stealth Rock


    life orb or leftovers depends on whether you want power or survivability, i recommend life orb for sure because it's not like sandslash is tanking hits anyways...the evs let you outspeed scarf landorus, thundurus-t, and garchomp. last slot is optional, x-scissor is cool to maybe ohko latios after rocks and prevent celebi from doing anything, but stealth rock is also cool if your team needs that (if you're running choice ttar for example) and nothing else wants to waste a slot on it. other last move options include toxic, which is really funny when you use it early and politoed or hippowdon or w/e gets put on a timer.

    Author: Lavos Spawn


    [​IMG]
    Terrakion @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef
    Jolly Nature
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge
    - X-Scissor
    - Rock Slide


    Terrakion works in many different ways. It obviously revenges a ton of Pokemon, most of them even after a speed boost, and works as a great lategame cleaner while punching holes in offensivly minded teams due to it nearly unresisted STAB combo. Sand offense really benefits from Terrakion because of its ability to revenge even Chlorophyle-sweepers (not all, but a whole lot) and most of those Dragon / Quiver Dancers around which are a pain for any offensive team to face.
    It doesn't do that much against stallish teams, but any offensive players knows how hard it is to deal with a Scarf Terrakion.

    Author: Lohgock


    [​IMG]
    Terrakion @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Stone Edge
    - Close Combat
    - Taunt
    - Stealth Rock


    As someone said, terrakion works in diferent ways, but this use as a lead helps a lot giving a Stealth Rock + Taunt support, because sometimes the SandsOff teams have some issues to deal with the Hazards, this Terrakion set makes him an excellent user of Stealth Rock due to the many switches it forces with its STABs moves, with his ev's Terrakion can outspead defensive threats as Deo-D, and also can OHKO Off threats as Standart Breloom.

    Author: ~GreenCore


    [​IMG]
    Rotom-W @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 248 HP / 32 SAtk / 228 SDef
    Calm Nature
    - Volt Switch
    - Hydro Pump
    - Pain Split
    - Thunder Wave / Will-O-Wisp


    Like many common members of sand teams, Rotom-W doesn't directly benefit from the sand. However, it's a great answer to the majority of Pokemon found on rain, it can also provide momentum with Volt Switch, spread paralysis to aid the slower members of sand offense, eg. Scizor, and it's overall a great partner for many common Pokemon found in sand offense, eg. Lati@s. The moveset is so self explanatory, there's no need to explain it, and the EVs are there to live a Specs Draco Meteor from Hydreigon, and to OHKO Gliscor with Hydro Pump.

    Author: The Great Mighty Doom
  3. Subject 18

    Subject 18 S H M A C K E D
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Battle Server Moderator
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    [​IMG]

    Alakazam @ Focus Sash/Life Orb
    Trait: Magic Guard
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Hidden Power Ice/Hidden Power Fire
    - Focus Blast
    - Psyshock
    - Shadow Ball

    Alakazam works really well in sand. Magic Guard allows it not to take Sand damage, entry hazards and Status. It makes a deadly revenge killer and late game cleaner with the Sash you are guaranteed live at least one hit and increases your chances to pull of a sweep. Life orb could also be use for extra power though generally Focus Sash is preferred. Psyshock is a godsend to hit the pink blobs for good damage. Hidden Power Ice is slashed with Hidden Power Fire to deal with either Dragons or Scizor.
  4. Hat

    Hat

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2013
    Messages:
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    [​IMG]

    Keldeo @ Leftovers
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Calm Mind
    - Surf
    - Secret Sword
    - Hidden Power [Ice]

    I love this set in Sand, is the McGiver of pokémon. Sunny, Rain, Sand and Hail makes an good habitat for this pocket monster. In Sand Keldeo obtains boosts of CM and destroy teams MUAHAHAH. Surf in rain is terrible, but Amoongus/Tentacruel/Celebi/etc... stop his party.
  5. Halcyon.

    Halcyon. Come on, she's not burned; she's just gone.
    is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

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    Messages:
    1,482
    Sand Offense is, in my opinion the best offensive playstyle in the current metagame. The thing that makes it so great is that Sand Offense usually doesn't rely on sand that much. It's definitely more of a bonus than anything else. Tyranitar is an extremely useful Pokémon in a metagame infested with Celebi and Lati@s, being able to trap and kill them with Pursuit, while taking next to nothing from their attacks thanks to the SpDef boost from the sand. But like I said, outside of Tyranitar, most Sand Offense teams don't rely on the sand. Sand Stream is used more as a counter to other weathers, sort of like putting Hail on a Starmie to beat Sun and Rain.

    Some useful Pokémon to use on Sand Offense would be:



    [​IMG]


    Keldeo @ Choice Scarf/Specs
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature

    - Hydro Pump
    - Surf / Icy Wind
    - Secret Sword
    - Hidden Power Ice / Ghost

    Keldeo can be used as an offensive check to rain teams, being able to send out insanely powerful rain-boosted Hydro Pumps. Tyranitar also makes the perfect partner to Keldeo, with only Amoongus being able to shake off Tyranitar's Pursuit (though I believe it is 2HKO'd by Banded-Stone Edge). Once the counters are out of the way, Specs Keldeo can demolish everything in its path especially if you are fighting a rain team. Scarf Keldeo makes one of the best revenge killers, and with the right prediction, you can KO almost everything in the tier.



    [​IMG]


    Latias @ Life Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature

    - Draco Meteor
    - Surf
    - Hidden Power Fire / Psyshock
    - Roost / Recover

    Latias is another great team member for Sand Offense, as it handles Rain and sun teams nicely. Though this particular set might miss the "immunity" to sand damage that Leftovers provides, the extra power that Life Orb gives is fantastic, and Roost allows you more freedom with your attacks. Latias is a great check to opposing Keldeo, Venusaur, and Breloom, which can usually give sand teams trouble and all of which can be OHKO'd by Psyshock. Surf prevents it from being completely walled by Heatran, and also allows you to do SOME damage to Tyranitar if you are in a situation where it traps you.

    All in all, Sand Offense is one of the best playstyles available in the current metagame, and if you haven't tried it yet, you should really consider it. It also is a way for people who like to play with weatherless to still feel good about themselves (because Sand Offense doesn't really care about it's own weather, just stopping others), while also getting the ability to shut other weathers down.
  6. Alexander.

    Alexander. Banned deucer.

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    Tyranitar (M) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 152 HP / 252 Atk / 104 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Crunch
    - Pursuit
    - Stone Edge
    - Superpower


    Landorus (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Sheer Force
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Focus Blast
    - Rock Polish
    - Earth Power

    This is a very good core to use on sand hyper offense imo. Choice Band Tyranitar with Pursuit can trap and kill Lati Twins which are the most common check to Rock Polish Landorus in the current bw ou metagame and then it can sweep easily. I usually add Choice Scarf Keldeo on this core because it takes advantage of Tyranitar's Pursuit, which kills Keldeo's most common check and counter such as Lati Twins and Jellicent and because it's a very good revenge-killer for many threats such as Dragon Dance Dragonite and Volcarona.
  7. BlackLight

    BlackLight

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2012
    Messages:
    665
    Sorry for bad formatting, I'm on my phone.

    Stoutland @ Choice Band
    Adamant
    Sand Rush
    252 Attack/252 Speed/4 whatevers

    Return
    Crunch
    Superpower
    Wild Charge

    Cb Stoutland is a massively underrated choice, but it works really well. Sand Rush makes Stoutland useful, doubling its speed and granting it an immunity to sandstorm damage. Moveset is rather basic, Return is decent STAB, Crunch gives it the ability to beat Ghost types, while Superpower nails Rock and Steel types. Wild Charge is rather situational, but it gives Stoutland a chance against Skarmory, who'd otherwise wall it forever.
    Stoutland really just needs sand, hazards, and the removal of the odd faster Pokemon, such as CSLatios. Beyond that, Stoutland likes wallbreakers, free switches, and long walks on the beach. Also, Choice Scarf Keldeo makes for a nice partner for Stoutland, as both of them together can make serious problems for the opposing teams.
  8. victinivcreate1

    victinivcreate1

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    139
    Sandslash @ Focus Sash
    Ability: Sand Rush
    EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
    Nature: Adamant
    -Earthquake
    -Stone Edge
    -Swords Dance
    -X-Scissor/Rapid Spin


    In my eyes, the premier physical sand sweeper. Sand Rush turns into a mini excadrill.

    The Sash is so that u can come in after ur pokemon has fainted (or ur slower mon has U-Turned or Volt-Switched out). Swords Dance to make ur Attack reach a 656 (or 598 if u run Jolly) and sweep. Adamant recommended for the extra power.
    The sash is broken with entry hazards so Rapid Spin support is necessary. I recommend Forretress, who has a very slow Volt Switch, sets up his own hazards, and can spin.
  9. Dark Fallen Angel

    Dark Fallen Angel FIDDLESTICKS IS ALSO GOOD ON MID!

    Joined:
    May 23, 2012
    Messages:
    799
    Sand Offense is my favorite playstyle, and is the one that I play the most and play a lot of time. It has many advantages over Rain Offense or Sun Offense. For example, sandstorm does not hinder the power of Water- or Fire-type attacks, which means that you can use both on your team without worryings. Also, Tyranitar itself can counter or check the counters or checks of many sweepers, like Keldeo, Sheer Force Landorus, or Nasty Plot Celebi. The only real downside of sandstorm is that due to passive damage, and the fact that it does not boost the power of attacks like sun and rain does, and also the fact that sand does not have moves like Thunder or Hurricane, your choices to sweepers are limited. Nevertheless, sandstorm offense is one of the best playstyles, and on my opinion is the best and my favorite.

    I would use Hidden Power Electric instead of Ghost if you are using Choice Specs, as all targets of Hidden Power Ghost (that means Celebi, Latias, Latios, and Jellicent) are taken care of by Tyranitar. Hidden Power Electric helps against Gyarados and Tentacruel, all which Keldeo struggles to damage otherwise, and Tyranitar is not a good check to either of them. Also, Hidden Power Electric does slighty more damage to most bulky Water-types than Secret Sword, if they don't have too much physical defense.

    That said, these are the sets that I am currently running on my sand offense team, and why they are useful on any sand team:

    [​IMG]
    Keldeo @ Expert Belt / Choice Specs / Mystic Water
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Hydro Pump
    - Secret Sword
    - Hidden Power [Electric]
    - Icy Wind

    Expert Belt Keldeo is very useful on sandstorm teams, because it works as a lure for many things that could give them problems, such as Chlorophyll sweepers like Venusaur, as well as sweepers like Sheer Force Landorus, and opposing Terrakion. However, if you feel that you need more power on neutral hits, feel free to use Choice Specs or Mystic Water. The difference from Mystic Water to Choice Specs is that it doesn't lock Keldeo on one attack, but offers less power, and only powers up Hydro Pump. That said, Choice Specs Keldeo is very useful alongside Choice Band Tyranitar because the latter defeats most counters to the former, and then Keldeo can spam powerful Hydro Pumps that even though are not rain-boosted, are still very powerful (for example, Keldeo can OHKO Scizor with Hydro Pump if boosted by Specs - it is very hard to OHKO Scizor with something other than a Fire-type attack). However, Expert Belt is very useful to fool your opponent. Expert Belt tends to be more useful against offensive teams, while Specs is better against more defensive ones. Choose which you think that it is the best. Expert Belt is now my favorite because it does not get locked on an attack. Also, Keldeo can still deal with many threats that it could OHKO with Hydro Pump, such as the aforementioned Scizor; even with Expert Belt, Scizor will be 2HKOed with a combination of Hydro Pump followed by Secret

    [​IMG]
    Celebi @ Life Orb / Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 180 SAtk / 84 SDef / 244 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Nasty Plot
    - Giga Drain
    - Psychic / Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Hidden Power [Fire] / Earth Power

    Nasty Plot Celebi is a good special attacker for sandstorm teams because it defeats rain teams, which are a problem for sandstorm because of their natural advantage against sand. This Celebi can still check Sheer Force Landorus and Keldeo effectively, although be wary - the lack of defensive investiment means that Celebi should take care to not take too many repeated hits from the aforementioned threats. Normally, I would not use on a sandstorm team a sweeper that took passive damage from sandstorm, especially if it had to use Life Orb as an item, because it would certainly die too quickly to passive damage from sand and recoil from Life Orb. Giga Drain, however, changes the situation. Celebi can use Giga Drain to recover HP and defeat bulky Water-types at same time. Then, you should use what you will use to cover Dragon-types; Psychic or Hidden Power Ice. Psychic is a stronger STAB than Giga Drain, and is useful on situations where Giga Drain is not sufficiently powerful, and it can also defeat Fighting-types. HP Ice, however, is a better way to defeat Dragon-types, because it does not leave Celebi walled by Hydreigon and Lati@s, and can defeat Dragonite and Salamence without a boost, as well as quickly dispose of Sheer Force Landorus. Then, decide what you will use to defeat Steel-types; Hidden Power Fire, or Earth Power. HP Fire disposes of all Steel-types, except Heatran, and Jirachi if it's raining. If the latter two threats prove to be troublesome, then you should use Earth Power. Earth Power cover Heatran and rain Jirachi, and can still cover many Steel-types; however, it fails to cover Steel-types not weak to Ground, such as specially defensive Scizor, Ferrothorn, Skarmory, and Bronzong.

    [​IMG]
    Heatran (M) @ Air Balloon
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Fire Blast
    - Earth Power
    - Hidden Power [Ice] / Hidden Power [Grass]
    - Taunt / Flame Charge / Stealth Rock

    Heatran is a better way to deal with Steel-types than using Ground- or Fighting-type sweepers. Also, many sun threats are surprisingly dangerous to sandstorm teams, especially if they manage to boost and get their speed or have their STAB doubled. Also, Heatran deals with many Dragon-types that Tyranitar cannot, namely Dragonite. It can also support the team with Stealth Rock if necessary, and is one of the best users.

    Also, these are sets of Landorus that I've been using. I do not like the Sheer Force set as much because it is too dependent from 3 things: from Earth Power as its main STAB (there are too many things immune to Ground), from having Focus Blast as its coverage move (Focus Blast is extremely innacurate and often has redundant coverage with Earth Power) and is too dependent from having the opposing team be weakened before attempting a sweep, especially if your opponent has its main counters/checks to Landorus, such as Latias and Celebi, alive, and the new EB Celebi can simply lure and easily KO Landorus that thougth that you were locked on Secret Sword or Hidden Power Electric. This is not to say that this set is bad, I am only saying that I prefer other sets, here are they:

    [​IMG]
    Landorus (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Sand Force
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
    - U-turn
    - Hidden Power [Ice] / Explosion

    A good revenge killer for sandstorm teams, it is peharps the best one. Because Landorus is at one point above many threats that fall short of its Speed tier, it is an excellent revenge killer, and often can sweep late-game with a boosted Earthquake. Speaking of which, Earthquake is its main move, while Stone Edge offer coverage against most things immune to Earthquake. It is also a good move to use if Volcarona is at good health, instantly KOing it - though after Stealth Rock damage, Earthquake can already OHKO Volcarona. U-Turn also separates him from other revenge killers like Keldeo and Garchomp, as if your opponent has a counter to your Pokémon, you can simply switch out and scout it. Hidden Power Ice is a more accurate move to use against Dragon-types, and also revenge kills opposing Landorus, as well as Gliscor; but it can be replaced by Explosion, which despite the nerf, is still stronger than even Sand Force-boosted Earthquake, and can be used as a last-resort move.

    [​IMG]
    Landorus (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Sand Force
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Swords Dance / Rock Polish
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
    - Gravity / Rock Polish / Hidden Power [Ice]

    Swords Dance is an underrated set for Landorus. It is extremely powerful, and with Gravity, Landorus can remove the opponent's immunities to Earthquake, which means that you can simply nuke the opposing team; This is because although there are many things immune to Earthquake, there aren't actually much Pokémon that resist Earthquake (there are only 2 OU pokémon that resist Ground! And only one of them, Celebi, can actually take repeated Earthquakes, as the other, Breloom, is too frail to do this). It can also use Rock Polish instead of Swords Dance if you want Landorus to simply be a sweeper, and not a wallbreaker. Landorus can also opt to use both Swords Dance and Rock Polish to form a Double Dance set - although options like Terrakion would seem better for this job, Landorus offer better defensive synergy to the team than Terrakion, and is able to fool opponents on thinking that you are using a special Sheer Force set - which can often catch them off-guard. However, this Landorus should be played with care, as it often needs some extra turns to setup, and this is not easy on such metagame. However, the payoff that this set offers, compared to other Landorus' sets, is higher.
  10. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winner

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    Mar 17, 2012
    Messages:
    2,933
    sand offense is good, but not great in today's metagame. honestly the "sand" part isn't super important, it's more about the pokemon that are traditionally used on sand offense, which include terrakion, landorus, keldeo, latios, and scizor. these five pokemon are essentially the face of sand offense, and they're also some of the most powerful offensive threats in the current bw2 metagame. the actual sand inducer, whether it's tyranitar or hippowdon, is usually just there to offset rain and sun, two weather archetypes whose team members are more dependent on their respective weathers than common members of sand offense. just look at the pokemon i listed - only one of them, terrakion, gets any noticeable benefit from having sand active, unless you count landorus but sheer force rp is way more common nowadays than sand force sets (even though i think sand force still has some real merit). the quandary with sand offense is that either you're using a slot on ttar/hippo that could be put to better use, or you're weakening yourself to other weathers by not running a sand inducer, and that's what makes it sort of a subpar playstyle overall.
  11. DarkBlazeR

    DarkBlazeR

    Joined:
    May 20, 2009
    Messages:
    387
    I have to agree with Lavos that sand offense isn't defined by the abuse/reliance of sand, but simply Tyranitar or Hippowdon + sweepers. If I decide to make such a team, I generally use Tyranitar merely for the offensive synergy it can provide for the team. I've never really liked using Hippowdon on offensive teams; I've always found it ruined my team's momentum. Popular sand sweepers like Keldeo/Landorus-I/Terrakion tend to have very similar checks, almost all of which can be eliminated by Tyranitar's Pursuit. I guess having a check to other weather conditions is a nice bonus, but sadly Tyranitar has pretty terrible defensive synergy with its teammates, meaning it tends always tends to drag the team down a bit, even if it manages to KO something.

    Regardless, I still frequently find myself turning to sand offense, even if it is hard to perfect. My preferred archetype at the moment is an offensive core of CB Tyranitar + RP Landorus-I + EBelt Keldeo, followed by a revenge killer (e.g. Scarf Terrakion/Scarf Latios/Scarf Jirachi/Stoutland), a bulky Steel (usually Forretress for hazards & spin) and one final member to cover whatever the rest of the team can't check.
  12. ClubbingSealCub

    ClubbingSealCub

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2012
    Messages:
    390
    Obligatory Stoutland

    [​IMG]
    Stoutland @ Choice Band / Life Orb
    Sand Rush
    4 Hp / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Adamant / Jolly nature
    ~ Return
    ~ Superpower
    ~ Crunch
    ~ Wild Charge / Ice Fang / Fire Fang

    Stoutland reaches a mind boggling combination of 518 speed and 492 attack under sand with a choice band equipped. Return is a very powerful STAB move with good neutral coverage that will decimate anything that isn't especially bulky or resistant to the move. Superpower takes care of Steel- and Rock-types looking to sponge Return, while Crunch catches incoming Ghost-type switch ins. The last slot lets you better deal with certain threats. Wild Charge takes care of bulky Water-types - but watch out for the recoil! Ice Fang ensures a 2HKO on Gliscor or Landorus-T, 'mons that avoid a 2HKO from Return. Fire Fang can be used against Scizor and Foretress if they are especially problematic for your team, but this is not recommended. Stoutland can use LO instead of CB. This will facilitate its late-game sweep, allowing it to switch moves, but it may miss on some crucial OHKO/2HKOes. Adamant is the preferred nature due to the power boost, but Jolly can be used to lure in unsuspecting Terrakion and Keldeo, who otherwise outspeed Stoutland by 1 point.
  13. blunder

    blunder

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2011
    Messages:
    574
    Sandslash is really fun to use and it's the Pokemon I used in every single match of the second Minitour which I won. It's really underrated as a sweeper and a spinner due to it's frailness. It has a good base 100 Attack which its 299 (really, don't run adamant, you can't outspeed stuff like Scarfrachi then.) 299 atk backed with Life Orb is 389 and it hits hard with EdgeQuake coverage as well as getting of a spin which sand needs to do so it can handle rain.

    this is the set I use
    Sandslash (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Sand Rush
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Swords Dance
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
    - Rapid Spin

    Don't try to run X-scissor over Rapid Spin. Sandslash usually does not end up 6-0ing teams, usually it takes out 2-3 guys before dying which is its job as well as to spin. Rapid spin is really good vs HO as Gengar gets absolutely destroyed by an LO Stone edge after rocks and you outspeed the things on HO

    All in all, I really recommend people to try out Sandslash, it's a cool mon with a small niche, but can really turn the tide of a battle
  14. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winner

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2012
    Messages:
    2,933
    the real issue with sandslash is its terrible speed. even with a jolly nature, 252 evs, and sand rush active, it still can't outspeed extremely common scarfers such as keldeo, terrakion, and latios. this means that even if you can somehow manage to set up a swords dance, you're still not going to pull off a sweep 95% of the time because your opponent is going to pull out his particular scarfer and revenge kill you after a bit of life orb damage. that's why i prefer to run a utility sandslash if i'm bent on using one, since swords dance is, on the whole, useless. better set imo is:

    sandslash @ life orb / leftovers
    trait: sand rush
    evs: 252 atk / 8 def / 248 spd
    jolly nature
    - earthquake
    - stone edge
    - rapid spin
    - x-scissor / stealth rock

    life orb or leftovers depends on whether you want power or survivability, i recommend life orb for sure because it's not like sandslash is tanking hits anyways...the evs let you outspeed scarf landorus, thundurus-t, and garchomp. last slot is optional, x-scissor is cool to maybe ohko latios after rocks and prevent celebi from doing anything, but stealth rock is also cool if your team needs that (if you're running choice ttar for example) and nothing else wants to waste a slot on it. other last move options include toxic, which is really funny when you use it early and politoed or hippowdon or w/e gets put on a timer.
  15. Lohgock

    Lohgock

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2010
    Messages:
    388
    Terrakion @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef
    Jolly Nature
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge
    - X-Scissor
    - Rock Slide

    Terrakion works in many different ways. It obviously revenges a ton of Pokemon, most of them even after a speed boost, and works as a great lategame cleaner while punching holes in offensivly minded teams due to it nearly unresisted STAB combo. Sand offense really benefits from Terrakion because of its ability to revenge even Chlorophyle-sweepers (not all, but a whole lot) and most of those Dragon / Quiver Dancers around which are a pain for any offensive team to face.
    It doesn't do that much against stallish teams, but any offensive players knows how hard it is to deal with a Scarf Terrakion.


    There are other options for the last slot, I know, but I really like how Rock Slide gives you an option to hit opponents for great damage while not having to rely on bs Stone Edge which I found to be useful lategame when the opponents team is weakend.
  16. ~GreenCore

    ~GreenCore Hardwire

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2010
    Messages:
    1,059
    [​IMG]
    Terrakion @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Stone Edge
    - Close Combat
    - Taunt
    - Stealth Rock

    As someone said, terrakion works in diferent ways, but this use as a lead helps a lot giving a Stealth Rock + Taunt support, because sometimes the SandsOff teams have some issues to deal with the Hazards, this Terrakion set makes him an excellent user of Stealth Rock due to the many switches it forces with its STABs moves, with his ev's Terrakion can outspead defensive threats as Deo-D, and also can OHKO Off threats as Standart Breloom.
    :toast:
  17. TGMD

    TGMD +Biosci: you both gave me crabs
    is a Tutoris a Battle Server Moderatoris a Team Rater Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
    Tournament Winner

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2011
    Messages:
    998
    As Lavos Spawn said, the "sand" part of sand offense is pretty much irrelevant (other than dog and bipedal ofc), the only real reason for it is to neutralize rain and sun. For the most part I agree with this opinion, however, I still find myself using the playstyle rather often. Mainly because I'm a big fan of dog, but there's also the fact that there are just so many great sweepers that can have alot of their counters trapped by Tyranitar (Breloom, Keldeo, Landorus, etc.) Tyranitar is also a great answer to the huge annoyance that is Deo-D, and although neutralizing weather isn't the greatest thing in the world, it can still be very useful in many teams. Anyway, onto set shenanigans:

    [​IMG]
    Rotom-W @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 248 HP / 32 SAtk / 228 SDef
    Calm Nature
    - Volt Switch
    - Hydro Pump
    - Pain Split
    - Thunder Wave / Will-O-Wisp

    Like many common members of sand teams, Rotom-W doesn't directly benefit from the sand. However, it's a great answer to the majority of Pokemon found on rain, it can also provide momentum with Volt Switch, spread paralysis to aid the slower members of sand offense, eg. Scizor, and it's overall a great partner for many common Pokemon found in sand offense, eg. Lati@s. The moveset is so self explanatory, there's no need to explain it, and the EVs are there to live a Specs Draco Meteor from Hydreigon, and to OHKO Gliscor with Hydro Pump.
  18. Steel.Storm

    Steel.Storm

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2009
    Messages:
    200
    ahh, my favorite Playstyle <3. I completely agree with Lavos and Doom; the Sand itself isn't what drives such a team to success. Simply the fact that you're taking your opponents weather (and any advantages it may bring) away can be enough to give you a leg up in a match and lead to a win. There's also the fact that some of the most common Sand Sweepers can function perfectly fine, or better, when under other Weather (Lati@s, Scizor, Keldeo). However like Lavos said, fitting a team to carry Hippo or TTar isn't the easiest thing in the world either. A lot of the time you find your self multiplying other weaknesses (Terra, Lando, etc) or feeling that the Slot could be better utilized.

    I personally can't say too much about Hippo as I have rather limited usage with him, however TTar is another story. BW2 hasn't been the least bit kind to poor ol' TTar leaving him with little beyond a Choice Band set to be effective but I feel he has the best Synergy and overall purpose on a Team with a Sweeper(s) that loves having things Pursuit Trapped or otherwise threatened by him. That being said, 2 of my favorite Sand Powerhouses are without a doubt Keldeo and Sheer Force Lando.


    [​IMG][​IMG]
    CBTar + Scarf Keldeo is by far my favorite Sand Core for the moment in BW2 and for good reason. With a bit of hazard support and a Set Up Poke in the wings you're pretty much set to go. Keldeo, though having somewhat limited coverage, is a great Choice Scarf user. This is especially true thanks to its ace in the hole: Secret Sword. Since this STAB hits on the Phy. side, while all other coverage moves are hitting on the Spec side Keldeo breaks the mold and can leave several Spec. Walls hesitant to Switch In. TTar puts in work by easily handling Lati@s, Celebi, Jellicent, and such, all of which block Keldeo from doing its job. Another great thing about Keldeo is it obviously doesn't mind being stuck in the Rain instead of Sand. Here is the Team I've been using and absolutely love it.

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    SF Lando is another fantastic partner for TTar. RP Sheer Force Lando is a monster and, provided "Focus Miss" hits, can easily roll through teams with it's awesome coverage and power while outpacing everything, Scarf or not, after a single RP. Being paired with CBTar you have a fantastic way of dealing with Lati@s, Celebi, etc that like to stand is Lando's way as well as having the opponent potentially think you're the Phy. Sand Force Lando at first for a bit of mind games. Lando is also phenomenal when going up against Sun.


    Heck, a Team with all 3 of these guys together isn't out of the question either. Figuring out a solid Defensive Core to cover em and lay up some Hazards would be all it takes for these 3 Offensive Behemoths to tear some holes.
    Sets (open)

    [​IMG]
    Tyranitar (M) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 154 HP / 252 Atk / 104 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Stone Edge
    - Crunch
    - Superpower
    - Pursuit

    [​IMG]
    Keldeo @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
    - Secret Sword
    - Hydro Pump
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Surf

    [​IMG]
    *don't remember the lower Spd EV Spread to give him a bit of bulk offhand*
    Landorus (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Sheer Force
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature
    IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
    - Earth Power
    - Focus Blast
    - Rock Polish
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
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