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OU Playstyles - Week #04 [Sand Stall] - READ OP FIRST!

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by LilOuOn, Mar 1, 2013.

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  1. LilOuOn

    LilOuOn

    Joined:
    May 25, 2012
    Messages:
    651
    Approved by Haunter, Birkal and Huntofthelion​

    OU Playstyles

    By LilOu. With some collaboration of Stoned RG. Special thanks to Shurtugal.

    Welcome to the OU discussion of the different playstyles! The main purpose of this thread is to choose a playstyle every week (I'll choose it) and you, (yes, you), are going to be able to comment, give your opinion and suggest pokemons that should be considered when making a team around the style [posting teams is also allowed, just keep in mind that this is not the RMT forums, so if you want to post a team try to make it short and use sprites of pokes, explain how does the team work and post replays if possible]. Obviously, your comments must have connection with the chosen style, as well as solid arguments of why your comment(s) are valid. With this, newer players can decide what playstyle they like most and, of course, more experienced players can also expand their knowledge. Remember to be friendly with other people; if you disagree with someone's opinion don't slam with an aggressive response, just let everyone know what you think in a kind way. The links to discussions of each playstyle will be posted in the OP so everyone can read it at anytime!

    Don't be afraid of posting! If you have a great offense, stall, etc team, just think about what to say and go for it! Don't forget that participating in this kind of threads gives you opportunity to earn that awesome Community Contributor([​IMG]) badge! Be careful of what do you post! Quality posts will be rewarded, but mediocre comments will be infracted. Do your best and I hope that you like to contribute this thread!


    Summary of the rules (Must read):
    • Make quality posts. No one-lined posts.
    • Your comments must be about the weekly playstyle chosen.
    • No gimmicks. If you decided to post a team (or pokemon) don't suggest using pursuit Tauros to trap Celebi or Latios while there is an overall better option named Tyranitar.
    • Comment how the chosen style affects the current metagame and how it fairs in it.
    • Support your team's posts with replays if possible. Explanation of them are a must.
    • Having a wide point of view is needed. Don't post that stall sucks because you always lose to it.
    • Your new ideas must have strong arguments of why them should be considered.
    • This one is important: We don't want this to become a debate of: "this metagame is stale and has no diversity due to weather". This thread is here to make a discussion about the different playstyles, not to discharge all your hate against weather. Please, incoherent posts will be deleted and possibly penalized, so think about what are you going to write.


    Sets suggestions: (New)

    If you are going to post a set, you must follow this format:

    Here a complete example:

    Also, if you are going to post the sprite, I'd really appreciate if you use Smogon's images (the ones that are not moving), this is just because it is really hard to search all images (start a google search with "Latias Smogon", then click the link, then Right Click, then copy image URL and then paste), so it would be really great if you can do that for me. :]
    [​IMG] <3


    Past Discussions:

    • Week #01 (February 8, 2013 - February 15, 2013): Hyper Offense
    • Week #02 (February 15, 2013 - February 22, 2013): Sand Offense
    • Week #03 (February 22, 2013 - March 1, 2013): Rain Offense


    Week #04: Sand Stall

    [​IMG]

    We already discussed Sand Offense, and most of us came to logicly assume its a simple set of Tyranitar +5 sweepers, hyper offense style. Also you may have noticed a curious fact: there was only 1 sand streamer reccomended for the playstyle, namely T-tar. Well now it's time for the other sand streamer to shine: Hippowdon. With the fast and offensive pressure-based style in Sand Offense, Hippo is not wanted because it ''stalls'' your momentum. In the other side of the coin (or weather or whatever) it is greatly welcome because of its unique traits as an incredible physical (or mixed!) wall.

    But that's not everything about Sand Stall, it could go a slightly different route in semi-stall, so how can that work? What spinner (if any) should be used? In the sand stream topic, what merits does T-tar have? What are the main things that should be considered when teambuilding? Which merits does this kind of stall have over other types?

    By Stoned RG and LilOu

    ***What I want to see here is discussion. It's ok to post sets, but posting sets is not the main purpose. If you want to suggest a Pokemon, I strongly recommend to first give your thoughts about the topic and THEN post your suggestion.
  2. LilOuOn

    LilOuOn

    Joined:
    May 25, 2012
    Messages:
    651
    Archive:

    Consider this bro (open)

    [​IMG]
    Hippowdon @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
    Careful Nature
    - Slack Off
    - Earthquake
    - Stealth Rock
    - Whirlwind


    The face of Sand Stall, Hippowdon is the only weather starter with reliable recovery. With its specially defensive spread and low speed, it makes sure that neither Ninetales nor Politoed can gain an early weather advantage. From there it sets up Stealth Rock and comes back in multiple times throughout the match to change the weather and cockblock various sweepers. Examples of easy hard counters include Specs-less Jolteon, Thundurus without Nasty Plot or Grass Knot, Scarfmence, Gengar, Hydreigon without Specs, Surf, or Taunt, Heatran, Tyranitar, CM Latias, CM Reuniclus (some of these don't hold up vs. last pokemon). Hippowdon is very sturdy up until end-game where it'll most likely be weakened, but it usually wins the weather war, allowing the other 5 members to take advantage of this fact. Hippowdon's biggest downsides are his weakness to common Spikers, elemental special attacks and his desperate plea to be able to fit Ice Fang into his slight-4MSS. All of these are easily covered by teammates though.

    Author: Meru


    [​IMG]
    Tyranitar @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Sand Stream
    Nature: Jolly
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    - Pursuit
    - Crunch
    - Stone Edge
    - Superpower


    Ah yes, here is a Pokemon that is excellent on Sand Stall teams, Choice Scarf Tyranitar. As opposed to it's Choice Band counterpart, this Tyranitar trades in Power for Speed in order to become a potent revenge killer in the current metagame. With so many Psychic types running around in the tier, such as the Lati twins and Reuniclus, in addition Jellicent, can be hard for Stall teams to handle usually, so Scarf Tyranitar is here to save the day. Pursuit is great for getting solid damage on Jellicent and Reuniclus, 2 huge threats to Tyranitar. Crunch is an excellent STAB move, as it can 2HKO, even OHKO such threats like I mentioned before, in Reuniclus, Jellicent and the Lati twins. Stone Edge is for revenging Flying typed Pokes, such as Dragonite and Gyarados, as well as unboosted Volcarona. Finally, Superpower is excellent for catching opposing Lucario and non Scarfed Terrakion off guard. If you need help for revenge killing Gliscor and non Scarfed Landorus, Ice Beam is an option here.

    Author: Dr Ciel


    [​IMG]
    Jellicent @ Leftovers
    Trait: Water Absorb
    EVs: 252 HP / 36 Def / 220 SDef
    Calm Nature
    - Recover
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Taunt / Scald
    - Shadow Ball / Night Shade


    STAB Shadow ball makes Alakazam think twice about staying in on Jellicent. Water Absorb is good against rain teams and water attacks in general, allowing Jellicent to act as a reliable counter to pokemon like Keldeo. Will-O-Wisp can cripple physical attackers, and Taunt shuts down annoying pokemon like Ferrothorn or Skarmory, who try to set up hazards in Jellicent's face. Scald and Night shade are alternative attacking moves. Of course, Jellicent's partial ghost typing allows him to act as a spinblocker, which is essential on most dedicated stall teams.

    Author: Frankk


    [​IMG]
    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 224 SDef / 32 Spd
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Body Slam / Thunder Wave
    - Iron Head
    - Wish
    - Stealth Rock / Protect / Fire Punch


    SpDef Jirachi is very good pokemon on Sand stall teams because of it's ability to check top threats like Latios,Tornadus,Latias and various special threats.In addition to being a steel type and setting up Stealth Rock,Jirachi also provides useful wish support,keeping your mons healthy through out the game. Jirachi can beat a vast amount of threats with it's incredibly annoying paraflinch.It can also run surprise moves like Icy Wind and Fire Punch to get you the advantage.

    Author: White Symphoni


    [​IMG]
    Heatran (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 248 HP / 12 Def / 16 SAtk / 208 SDef / 24 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Lava Plume
    - Protect
    - Roar
    - Stealth Rock / Toxic / Earth Power


    Heatran is one of the best mons on sand stall. It can find several opportunities to switch in against just about every team so it can set up SR or harass its switchins with status or phazing. Fire typing is incredibly useful, having something to fuck up Skarm/Forre/Cele/Jira/Ferro is invaluable on stall.

    Author: BKC


    [​IMG]
    Celebi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 232 SDef / 24 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Recover
    - Baton Pass
    - Giga Drain / Psychic
    - Perish Song


    Yeah, Special Defensive Celebi is a very excellent Pokemon for Sand Stall playstyle. It's a great check to Special Landorus, Keldeo, Calm Mind Jirachi, Calm Mind Latias and Calm Mind Reuniclus which sand stall usually struggle with, especially Calm Mind Reuniclus and Special Landorus can very troublesome for any sand stall. Perish Song is a very nice move to use in a stall team since it allows to take advantage of entry hazards, which is always good. Perish Song is here to avoid Tyranitar and Scizor's Pursuit, which are very common with Special Landorus and Keldeo so if Tyranitar or Scizor traps and kills Celebi, Keldeo and especially Landorus can give some problem to the sand stall which I'm using. Finally, Giga Drain is a useful STAB to damage Water-types such as Starmie and Politoed but Psychic is a useful move too since it allows to hit stuff such as Breloom, Thundurus-T, Tentacruel, Conkeldurr, Amoonguss and Terrakion and Keldeo as well. If you decide to use Psychic, you should have some problem versus Life Orb Starmie and Choice Specs Politoed which don't take much damages from Psychic and can have a critical hit or freeze Celebi with Ice Beam.

    Author: Alexander.


    [​IMG]
    Aerodactyl (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Fly/Roost
    - Protect
    - Substitute
    - Toxic


    This set is sort of weird a pain in the rear for pokemon who cannot stop it. Stall Aero is a lot like stall gliscor except faster. While stall gliscor trembles against faster foes who can defeat it, Aero doesn't have this problem since he carries a base speed stat of 130(which out speeds every pokemon in OU except Jolteon whom he ties with). The idea isn't even to just toxic stall, Aero also abuses its ability pressure to stall your opponent out of moves. An interesting thing is that Aero can wall on the special side due to it gaining sp def in the sand which is what makes it very good for sand stall. Protect can be used to scout and provide a turn of invulnerability for Aero + leftover recovery, it also works well in conjunction with substitute. Substitute sacrifices your health for a shield which can be used to block incoming status that would cripple Aero like twave or willo and if you're lucky, take hits. these 2 moves together can be used to stall out your opponent's PP while Aero chills behind protect and sub. Toxic lets you not only PP stall, but stall out their health meaning your opponent will be very pressured to kill aero due to the fact that he's on a double time limit. The last move it optional. You can use roost to keep yourself alive so you can keep stalling. Another move that I tried out with is Fly. Its a weird combination but it works. Fly sends you up in the air for some invulnerability(besides the sky uppercut) gaining even more leftover recovery, then you swoop down for damage. If you're behind a sub then its just more infuriating to your opponent. 252 in hp to give overall damage taking while max speed investment and a jolly nature makes sure you out speed your opponent. Leftovers helps with recovery while you are abusing your moves. This set has some downsides as well. Notably the fact that steel types run over this set easily due to no taunt or EQ. You can check that with Magnezone as a partner but just be careful. Aero get checked by other common things like scarfers and priority moves. Blissey doesn't mind Aero either due to it not taking much from fly and its status curing capabilities. When Aero is brought in at the proper time and pokemon, he can be devistating, steer clear of its threats!

    Author: Zeta5


    [​IMG]
    Skarmory @ Leftovers / Shed Shell
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 224 Def / 32 Spd
    Impish Nature
    - Spikes
    - Roost
    - Whirlwind
    - Brave Bird / Taunt


    Originally i was going to talk about hippo, but i got late. Anyways this is a secondary physical wall, if hippo is phys defensive obviously, but most importantly it sets up spikes, an essential move for stall. Also it has reliable recovery, something a lot of walls would kill for; a phazing move, and decent speed in case youre using taunt. Not much else to say here, everybody knows what skarm does: hes an asshole, and if you have a blissey in your team, be more of an asshole.

    Author: Stoned Fgt


    [​IMG]
    Sandslash (M) @ Leftovers / Ghost Gem
    Trait: Sand Rush
    EVs: 252 HP / 216 Def / 40 Spd
    Impish Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Toxic/X-Scissor
    - Earthquake
    - Rapid Spin
    - Stealth Rock


    Sandslash has often been neglected for the role of an offensive poke on most Sand Offense teams mostly due to the fact that Stoutland has a higher attack stat and a higher base speed. With max investment, Sandslash only reaches a disappointing 502 speed, not even being able to outspeed the common scarfers of terrakion and keldeo. However, with Sand Stall, Sandslash has actually carved a great niche in itself, being able to be a fast Stealth Rock user, AND a fast rapid spin user. With the speed investment, Sandslash is able to outspeed Max speed base 110's, most notable Gengar and Latios. Unfortunately, the only move that Sandslash has to be able to hit Gengar with is Stone Edge. On Sand Stall, Sandslash isn't really geared to have an offensive set, so stone edge is usually traded out for a supporting move such as stealth rock. With this set, Sandslash is meant to be someone who can come in for a fast spin, or a fast stealth rock set up, while also being able to hit something with an earthquake coming off of 100 base attack. Toxic is a great move in order to wear down physical opponents thanks to Sandslash's base 110 defenses, while X-scissor can be used to score the 2HKO on non Scarf Latios's after sandstorm damage. Ghost Gem Shadow Claw lets Sandslash OHKO Gengar and 2HKO Jellicent, something that you probably would want in a defensive spinning 'Slash.

    Author: Sork, Additional comment by ClubbingSealCub


    [​IMG]
    Mandibuzz (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Overcoat
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Taunt
    - Roost
    - Foul Play
    - U-turn


    Mandibuzz resist many special attacks ( and others physicals ) and some V-Switchs, at same time have access to Roost and his ability, Overcoat, prevents to SS damage. Its speed allows it to pass other walls and taunt them, preventing SR, Spikes and others, of most of wall. Foul Play hits hard against most of the Pokemon like Landorus, Reuniclus, Latios, Latias, Celebi and others. At the end, u-turn no needs information, for example, scout against physical pokemon to send out Hippowdon.

    Author: J O G A


    [​IMG]
    Ferrothorn @ Leftovers / Rocky Helmet
    Trait: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 252 HP / 128 Def / 128 SDef
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Power Whip
    - Leech Seed
    - Protect
    - Spikes


    Ferrothorn can absorb all kinds of hits with great defensive stats and typing, and he is able to effectively check many of the top threats in the metagame. Functions as a pseudo spin-blocker with his ability (especially with Rocky Helmet) for those who can't fit one of the few decent real spin-blockers on their teams (Jellicent is really the only one that comes to mind). Additionally, he is one of the few pokemon remaining in OU who can set up Spikes effectively, and we all know how frustrating Spikes can be for an opponent to deal with, especially on top of Stealth Rock. A Protect + Leech Seed combo makes the most sense for a defensive team in a Sandstorm, racking up maximum residual damage. Power Whip is the attacking move of choice because it hits Starmie, Tentacruel, and various Rain and Sand mons, though its inability to hurt Dragons like Gyro Ball is quite unfortunate. Ferrothorn's 4x Fire weakness out of Rain is an issue, as is his susceptibility to burns, but overall he's a great team player.

    Author: Kaos


    [​IMG]
    Forretress @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 180 Def / 76 Sdef
    Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
    - Spikes
    - Rapid spin
    - Volt switch
    - Gyro ball


    forretress is cool on sand stall, since every good sand stall team needs a physically defensive steel, which gives you the two options of forretress and skarmory (ferro isn't very good on sand stall). skarm can roost and phaze, which forry can't, but forry can spin, and that's arguably more important than both of skarm's advantages combined. since basically every effective sand stall except meru's needs a spinner too, if you go with skarm over forry, your only real option for a spinner is starmie, and starmie's easy pursuit bait for tyranitar and scizor, which makes it unreliable and less likely to do its assigned job. forry not only takes care of that problem, but frees up a team slot for something else that's critical to your team's success, like jellicent or latias. overall i'd say forry + extra team member outclasses skarm + starmie in the realm of sand stall. here's a sample set. (btw run 0 spd ivs)

    Author: Lavos Spawn


    [​IMG]
    Tyranitar @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Sassy Nature
    - Thunder Wave / Stealth Rock
    - Roar
    - Crunch / Pursuit
    - Fire Blast


    This set is great for pretty much any sand team, although it will probably shine the most on balanced-stall teams. Since this is a sand stall thread, I'm assuming every team has hazards setters. Tyranitar sp. def in sand is ridiculously high. It can with ease switch in on things like latias/latios/celebi. Crunch is prefered over pursuit, because of the damage and pokemons suchs as latias will rarely switch out because they expect the pursuit. Thunder Wave is great for crippling switch outs, and works great with Roar, if your team doesnt have a stealth rock setter, Tyranitar can use it. Fire Blast is for ferrothorns, forretress, skarm, etc. and thunder waved scizors which, from experience, tends to switch in on Tyranitar. Roar is what makes this set shine though. Awesome for phasing and easing a late game sweep with something like Stoutland. Edit: Roar is also really good for phasing sp atking threats behind substitute.

    Author: Liked
  3. Meru

    Meru
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2005
    Messages:
    1,098
    [​IMG]
    Hippowdon @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
    Careful Nature
    - Slack Off
    - Earthquake
    - Stealth Rock
    - Whirlwind

    The face of Sand Stall, Hippowdon is the only weather starter with reliable recovery. With its specially defensive spread and low speed, it makes sure that neither Ninetales nor Politoed can gain an early weather advantage. From there it sets up Stealth Rock and comes back in multiple times throughout the match to change the weather and cockblock various sweepers. Examples of easy hard counters include Specs-less Jolteon, Thundurus without Nasty Plot or Grass Knot, Scarfmence, Gengar, Hydreigon without Specs, Surf, or Taunt, Heatran, Tyranitar, CM Latias, CM Reuniclus (some of these don't hold up vs. last pokemon). Hippowdon is very sturdy up until end-game where it'll most likely be weakened, but it usually wins the weather war, allowing the other 5 members to take advantage of this fact.

    Hippowdon's biggest downsides are his weakness to common Spikers, elemental special attacks and his desperate plea to be able to fit Ice Fang into his slight-4MSS. All of these are easily covered by teammates though.

    He trades Tyranitar's Dugtrio weakness for a much more lethal (although a bit more rare) Gothitelle weakness.
  4. Kaos

    Kaos

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2011
    Messages:
    67
    Honestly, even in stall Ttar is usually the better choice. Hippo can't switch in to either Politoed or Ninetales as easily, and doesn't have the benefit of being an outstanding special wall. Still love him though.
  5. Explorer

    Explorer

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2012
    Messages:
    683
    One of the things to remember is that Sand gives all Rock-types a 1.5x Special Defense boost, so overlooked Pokemon such as Cradily become potent Pokemon. Since many Sandstorm team Pokemon are weak to Rain, Cradily is a decent additional choice for sandstorm teams since it can benefit from Sandstorm AND soak up Water-type attacks.

    I may post a specific set later--but it's worth a shot.
  6. Dr Ciel

    Dr Ciel

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,287
    [​IMG]
    Tyranitar @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Sand Stream
    Nature: Jolly
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    - Pursuit
    - Crunch
    - Stone Edge
    - Superpower

    Ah yes, here is a Pokemon that is excellent on Sand Stall teams, Choice Scarf Tyranitar. As opposed to it's Choice Band counterpart, this Tyranitar trades in Power for Speed in order to become a potent revenge killer in the current metagame. With so many Psychic types running around in the tier, such as the Lati twins and Reuniclus, in addition Jellicent, can be hard for Stall teams to handle usually, so Scarf Tyranitar is here to save the day. Pursuit is great for getting solid damage on Jellicent and Reuniclus, 2 huge threats to Tyranitar. Crunch is an excellent STAB move, as it can 2HKO, even OHKO such threats like I mentioned before, in Reuniclus, Jellicent and the Lati twins. Stone Edge is for revenging Flying typed Pokes, such as Dragonite and Gyarados, as well as unboosted Volcarona. Finally, Superpower is excellent for catching opposing Lucario and non Scarfed Terrakion off guard. If you need help for revenge killing Gliscor and non Scarfed Landorus, Ice Beam is an option here.

  7. Frankk

    Frankk

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Messages:
    5
    The removal or Genesect, Tornadus-T, and most recently, Deoxys-D has given a great boon to stall teams, and sand stall is no exception. Now, the only common non-scarfed pokemon that Tyranitar has trouble taking care of is Alakazam. Psyshock makes Blissey and other dedicated special walls less of a reliable check, so I recommend Jellicent as a possible check and utility spinblocker.

    Jellicent @ Leftovers
    Trait: Water Absorb
    Nature: Calm
    EVs: 252 Hp / 36 Def / 220 SpD
    - Recover
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Taunt/Scald
    - Shadow Ball/Night Shade

    STAB Shadow ball makes Alakazam think twice about staying in on Jellicent. Water Absorb is good against rain teams and water attacks in general, allowing Jellicent to act as a reliable counter to pokemon like Keldeo. Will-O-Wisp can cripple physical attackers, and Taunt shuts down annoying pokemon like Ferrothorn or Skarmory, who try to set up hazards in Jellicent's face. Scald and Night shade are alternative attacking moves. Of course, Jellicent's partial ghost typing allows him to act as a spinblocker, which is essential on most dedicated stall teams.
  8. bobbyvaporeon

    bobbyvaporeon

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2012
    Messages:
    680
    Ferrothorn@Rocky Helmet
    Ability: Iron Barbs
    Nature: Relaxed
    EVS: Max Defence and HP
    - Spikes
    -Power Whip
    -Leech Seed
    -Protect

    You can't mention stall without ferrothorn. This is my set on my stall team, and it works very well. Leech Seed and protect work great together, and i like spikes to get some damage in, as Hippodown is a good phazer.
  9. Snowflakes

    Snowflakes Dango Dango Daikazoku
    is a Battle Server Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    405
    I seldom post here but it's Sand Stall so I thought I might. Any way greatmightyjohn told me long ago stall was not viable in the metagame(this was like genesect meta), I decided to go against my Sensei's teachings and come up with a stall team which I've been screwing around with on the side and has been a pet project of mine, never really happy with the 6th mon trying things like scarf mienshao, kyurem, ttar, garchomp and a host of others I'll post the 5 mons that have always been. This may seem a little like a RMT but people are posting individual sets and I haven't seen a near complete team yet so I thought I'd post mine get some ideas and also give some.

    Show Hide

    [​IMG]

    Celebi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 176 SDef / 252 HP / 80 Def
    Calm Nature
    - Psychic
    - Leech Seed
    - Heal Bell
    - Recover
    My favourite Celebi set and it is so fun to use, you don't care about status on any of your teammates, you can even tango with spdef heatran! 0 SpA Heatran Lava Plume vs. 252 HP / 176+ SpD Celebi: 168-198 (41.58 - 49%) -- guaranteed 3HKO. it's my first stop to rain and goes a is part of this teams main core along with Heatran and Rotom-W

    [​IMG]

    Heatran @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 4 SDef / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature
    - Substitute
    - Fire Blast
    - Earth Power
    - Toxic
    Not a stall set by any means but I wanted to try a sub heatran set so I put it on here and it's worked out well helping with a lot of things like winning the weather war slowly but surely against all weathers getting free subs against things like ferro on rain teams while sand is up and then toxic the politoed while it surfs you, adding SR into the equation and toed doesn't last long, tales doesn't like epower and aboma get's roasted.

    [​IMG]

    Hippowdon @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Def
    Impish Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Stealth Rock
    - Slack Off
    - Whirlwind
    The set has been mentioned above so again I won't say much but I've been flopping back and forth between the physical wall set and this one to handle dragons better.

    [​IMG]

    Starmie @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Scald
    - Psyshock
    - Rapid Spin
    - Recover
    One of my favourite things about stall is it allows me to play stupid sometimes and let them just set up some hazards while getting some damage on them or whatever, bulky starmie is my go to spinner, adds an additional check to the 2 main musketeers, and fish for random scald burns against things.

    [​IMG]

    Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 248 HP / 28 SAtk / 232 SDef
    Calm Nature
    - Hydro Pump
    - Volt Switch
    - Pain Split
    - Will-O-Wisp
    Last mon is Rotom-Wash, second go to rain check, less so now that torn-t is banned but torn is still running around sometimes and really I just love this set so much it survives so many random things.


    Just something to spark discussion and start throwing around some ideas.
  10. Bryce

    Bryce Lun

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2012
    Messages:
    442
    Sand Stall is quite possibly the best form of stall this meta,simply because Sand Stall have wide range of options to choose from to cover top threats.Unlike Politoed or Ninetails in Rainstall or Sunstall,Hippodawn and Ttar both have a significant contribution to Sand stall,while having weather control.Hippodawn covers a majority of physical threat or can be a defensive juggernaut with it's SpDef set. Tyranitar gives stall teams nice offensive support via Scarf/Band set and can still utilize a SpDef set to wall many things.

    One unique advantage of Sand stall,particularly Semi stall variants is Stoutland.Stoutland is fantastic cleaner and revenge killer on stall teams.With it's speed and power,Stoutland can pressure offensive teams screwing up their momentum.The residual damage from Sand stream is another plus.

    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 224 SDef / 32 Spd
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Body Slam
    - Iron Head
    - Wish
    - Stealth Rock/Protect/Fire Punch

    SpDef Jirachi is very good pokemon on Sand stall teams because of it's ability to check top threats like Latios,Tornadus,Latias and various special threats.In addition to being a steel type and setting up Stealth Rock,Jirachi also provides useful wish support,keeping your mons healthy through out the game. Jirachi can beat a vast amount of threats with it's incredibly annoying paraflinch.It can also run surprise moves like Icy Wind and Fire Punch to get you the advantage.
  11. TGMD

    TGMD +Biosci: you both gave me crabs
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    I personally don't like using stall, but I'll post my thoughts on Sand Stall anyway. Although BW2 introduced multiple new nightmares for stall, Tornadus-T, Genesect, and Deoxys-D are now banned, bringing the playstyle back to a somewhat similiar level of viability to what it had in BW1. If I did make a stall team, it'd probably be Sand Stall, not only does Sandstream bring in some extra residual damage, but Sand Stall is probably the most diverse form of Stall, and, as White symphoni said, the actual weather inducers (Hippowdon & Tyranitar) bring more to the table than Politoed, Ninetales, and Abomasnow.
  12. Kidogo

    Kidogo

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    461
    I think one of the most important issues to keep in mind when building sand stall is the issue of synergy. Because so many pokemon typically found on sand/sand stall are weak to a few special attacking types, particularly water, ice, and grass (hippo, ttar, skarm, landy-t, gliscor, etc.), you really need a resist that can consistently come in on these. So a sand stall core might include hippo / skarm / celebi / rotom-w, since those two do a pretty good job covering the typical sand stall weaknesses.

    One very successful sand stall team I've seen had a lineup of something like hippo / skarm / jelli / rose / rachi / stout. Stout was used as a revenge-killer/trapper with pursuit, and helped with the weather war by spamming banded frustrations. Meanwhile, the jelli/rose core, while resisting sand's common weaknesses, also includes a tspiker and a spinblocker. Skarmory gave spikes, hippo SR. IIRC hippo, skarm, and jelli were physically defensive while rachi and rose were SpD.

    An alternate form of sand stall uses a FWG core in addition to the hippo + skarm + spinblocker core. One I remember was TehY's, which was something like:
    hippo / starmie / amoonguss / heatran / sableye / skarmory.
  13. SlimMan

    SlimMan

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    I'm glad Stall is becoming more viable with the recent bannings because it's my favorite playstyle. I'm also sad though because every (good) team I make ends up being horribly weak to Stall. :/

    Having faced this exact team multiple times (can't remember who used it though), I can definitely attest that it is solid. The beauty of it is how it matches up differently against different kinds of teams. For example, whenever I have faced it, Stoutland and Roserade have been just about useless, but the other 4 members handled me really well. But that's just my team. Stoutland and Roserade are undoubtedly the heroes against other sorts of teams.

    That's what I love about Stall. You don't play every battle the same. Your matches become much less formulaic than other team archetypes tend to yield.
  14. DarkBlazeR

    DarkBlazeR

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    Messages:
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    Honestly I would still much rather use something like Jellicent/Celebi/Amoonguss/Roserade etc to combat rain teams. Even with Storm Drain and the SDef boost in sand, Cradily is still pretty mediocre in OU. This is primarily down to its typing - being a Rock type means it has a Fighting weakness, so it can't check rain's most notorious abuser, Keldeo. Not only that, but Cradily fails to distinguish itself from other bulky Grasses such as the ones I've mentioned above. Yeah it may have more pure bulk than them, and it may be able to tank a Draco Meteor, but resistances are much more important than stats alone.

    Support wise, it can't do much outside of setting up Stealth Rock and spreading Toxic, and sand stall teams hardly have a shortage of viable Stealth Rock users. Celebi has a number of useful moves like Perish Song, Heal Bell, Leech Seed, Dual Screens and Baton Pass, Amoonguss has double powder and Clear Smog, Roserade also has double powder and Spikes/Toxic Spikes. Whilst it isn't a Grass type, Jellicent does a better job as a Water immunity thanks to a greater palette of resistances (including the coveted abiity to spinblock). Cradily also faces a lot of competition with Gastrodon.

    I'm not saying Cradily is bad - it makes a fantastic check to a few 'mons such as Rotom-W, Starmie, Jolteon etc. It's just outclassed in OU.
  15. kill yourself

    kill yourself .|~Fashionista~|.
    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis Smogon Frontier's Castle Valetis a Past WCoP Winneris the Smogon Tour Season 16 Champion

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    As a stall player, sand stall is easily my favorite playstyle. It's probably the most reliable, since it doesn't have the extreme match-up issues that come with running sun/rain. I've been running the same team for a year now ever since I made it to face McMeghan in the semifinals of SPL III (Heatran | Forretress | Jellicent | ScarfTar | Celebi | Gliscor or Hippowdon, Landorus-T in BW2) and it's been the most consistent team I've made in my entire pkmn career. It has a way to handle everything with smart play. In my humble opinion, the team has been the standard for sand stall ever since late BW1 (Oristeros used it in WCoP vs. Rurushu, Kevin Garrett used it in a BW2 tour, and a lot of sand stall teams nowadays look similar to it). Another thing I like about that team and sand stall in general is if my opponent beat me then they did it by playing better...which is how it should be.

    [​IMG]
    Heatran (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flash Fire

    EVs: 248 HP / 12 Def / 16 SAtk / 208 SDef / 24 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Lava Plume
    - Protect
    - Roar
    - Stealth Rock / Toxic / Earth Power

    Heatran is one of the best mons on sand stall. It can find several opportunities to switch in against just about every team so it can set up SR or harass its switchins with status or phazing. Fire typing is incredibly useful, having something to fuck up Skarm/Forre/Cele/Jira/Ferro is invaluable on stall.

    I agree with specially defensive Celebi being excellent, but 1) its best set is Giga Drain | U-turn | Recover | Perish Song, and 2) it is a necessity on sand stall right now because Sheer Force Landorus is broken as fuck almost impossible to counter otherwise (Latias doesn't have Natural Cure and is ridiculously easy to Pursuit, the pink blobs are terrible, SpD Zapdos takes something around 45% from HP Ice, Gyarados has no recovery). Even though Cele is a fantastic mon, running it means you can't run other cool grass-type options such as Amoonguss / Roserade / SpD Breloom.

    Stuff sand stall generally struggles with;

    ~ Calm Mind Landorus (no one uses it for some reason but Lando is easily the most dangerous offensive mon in the metagame, and becomes even scarier with CM)
    ~ HP Ground Volcarona
    ~ non-choiced Kyurem(B)
    ~ Toxic Spikes
  16. Alexander.

    Alexander.

    Joined:
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    1,839
    [​IMG]
    Celebi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 232 SDef / 24 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Recover
    - Baton Pass
    - Giga Drain / Psychic
    - Perish Song

    Yeah, Special Defensive Celebi is a very excellent Pokemon for Sand Stall playstyle. It's a great check to Special Landorus, Keldeo, Calm Mind Jirachi, Calm Mind Latias and Calm Mind Reuniclus which sand stall usually struggle with, especially Calm Mind Reuniclus and Special Landorus can very troublesome for any sand stall. Perish Song is a very nice move to use in a stall team since it allows to take advantage of entry hazards, which is always good. Perish Song is here to avoid Tyranitar and Scizor's Pursuit, which are very common with Special Landorus and Keldeo so if Tyranitar or Scizor traps and kills Celebi, Keldeo and especially Landorus can give some problem to the sand stall which I'm using. Finally, Giga Drain is a useful STAB to damage Water-types such as Starmie and Politoed but Psychic is a useful move too since it allows to hit stuff such as Breloom, Thundurus-T, Tentacruel, Conkeldurr, Amoonguss and Terrakion and Keldeo as well. If you decide to use Psychic, you should have some problem versus Life Orb Starmie and Choice Specs Politoed which don't take much damages from Psychic and can have a critical hit or freeze Celebi with Ice Beam.
  17. Thundur

    Thundur

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    Aug 5, 2011
    Messages:
    435
    I tend to be a very defensive player, so sand stall is usually one of the most viable options when I go to build a team. However, since there are so many threats to deal with in the current metagame, it is extremely hard to make a solid sand stall team without copying someone else or making a worse version of someone else's team. It's something about the feel of making your own team, I guess. I just can't stand to play with a team I haven't made. You could spend a good bit of time sitting at a teambuilder trying to make a sand stall team, but everytime you get somewhere, you realize it's either garbage or a carbon copy of something else. Often I have been going back to gen 4, where all teams don't look the same. To be honest, it's so much better than standard ou.

    EDIT: Special Landorus is stupid :/
  18. Meru

    Meru
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    That was my team (username Eighty). I've been using it to get reqs since the Thundurus meta. Hippo/Stout form a core that goes beyond just simple typing. Hippowdon is the type of pokemon that is normally unbreakable without a boost such as Choice Specs and Choice Band. However, pokemon that utilize those items fall to Stoutland's ridiculous speed. Similarly, pokemon that can outspeed Stoutland, such as Scarf Latios and Scarf Terrakion, cannot hope to overcome Hippowdon without tricking him the Scarf, allowing Stoutland to once again outspeed them. The team is also durable in that it has three solid Keldeo checks: Jellicent, Roserade, and Latias. One for early-game, one for late-game, and one for anything inbetween, along with Stoutland himself, who still outspeeds non-scarf variants. I'll be posting it as a RMT soon.

    Sand Stall is more than just a gimmick. It's definitely viable, thanks to Stoutland.
  19. Zeta5

    Zeta5

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2011
    Messages:
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    [​IMG]
    Aerodactyl (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Fly/Roost
    - Protect
    - Substitute
    - Toxic

    This set is sort of weird a pain in the rear for pokemon who cannot stop it. Stall Aero is a lot like stall gliscor except faster. While stall gliscor trembles against faster foes who can defeat it, Aero doesn't have this problem since he carries a base speed stat of 130(which out speeds every pokemon in OU except Jolteon whom he ties with). The idea isn't even to just toxic stall, Aero also abuses its ability pressure to stall your opponent out of moves. An interesting thing is that Aero can wall on the special side due to it gaining sp def in the sand which is what makes it very good for sand stall.

    Protect can be used to scout and provide a turn of invulnerability for Aero + leftover recovery, it also works well in conjunction with substitute. Substitute sacrifices your health for a shield which can be used to block incoming status that would cripple Aero like twave or willo and if you're lucky, take hits. these 2 moves together can be used to stall out your opponent's PP while Aero chills behind protect and sub. Toxic lets you not only PP stall, but stall out their health meaning your opponent will be very pressured to kill aero due to the fact that he's on a double time limit. The last move it optional. You can use roost to keep yourself alive so you can keep stalling. Another move that I tried out with is Fly. Its a weird combination but it works. Fly sends you up in the air for some invulnerability(besides the sky uppercut) gaining even more leftover recovery, then you swoop down for damage. If you're behind a sub then its just more infuriating to your opponent.

    252 in hp to give overall damage taking while max speed investment and a jolly nature makes sure you out speed your opponent. Leftovers helps with recovery while you are abusing your moves

    This set has some downsides as well. Notably the fact that steel types run over this set easily due to no taunt or EQ. You can check that with Magnezone as a partner but just be careful. Aero get checked by other common things like scarfers and priority moves. Blissey doesn't mind Aero either due to it not taking much from fly and its status curing capabilities. When Aero is brought in at the proper time and pokemon, he can be devistating, steer clear of its threats!

    This set can be frighting, try it out on an alt. You might take a liking to it!
  20. Stone RG

    Stone RG Megas are broke

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    Ok, so in all honesty i hate stall, i used to play it a year ago, it was good, but i got bored, but thats not the topic here, its weather or not sand stall is better than other types and what should be considered in teambuilding.

    Most of us already know as well that if you decide playing sand stall you already have usually half the team: Hippowdon / Heatran / Celebi. Pretty standard core, a lot of variations use NP celebi, offensive heatran or sp def hippo, but most teams have this 3 as ''staples''. When spinblocking the obvious choice would be jellicent, but sableye is perfectly usable in this job too. And when it comes to spinners, defensive starmie and forretress are the initial choices, but hell ive seen tentacruel work fine in sand. There are also a lot of walls you could use, jirachi as a better counter for lati@s; blissey (not chansey due to the residual damage you are bringing to the table) is a bi*** and is probably the best wish passer available, skarmory can take forre's role of setting up spikes if youre not using him and act as a 2nd physical wall. On the offensive side, stoutland and landorus can be your late game sweepers, choice ttar can be your revenge killer / wallbreaker depending on your item. Did you just see how much pokes i said? Thats more than 12 to consider, and i think that's what sand stall has going for it: the variety. When you think about rain stall you just see the standard shit everybody runs: Poli/tenta/ferro/chansey/dragonite-skarmory/spinblocker. No new shit, EVER.


    Skarmory @ Leftovers / Shed Shell
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 224 Def / 32 Spd
    Impish Nature
    - Spikes
    - Roost
    - Whirlwind
    - Brave Bird / Taunt

    Originally i was going to talk about hippo, but i got late. Anyways this is a secondary physical wall, if hippo is phys defensive obviously, but most importantly it sets up spikes, an essential move for stall. Also it has reliable recovery, something a lot of walls would kill for; a phazing move, and decent speed in case youre using taunt. Not much else to say here, everybody knows what skarm does: hes an asshole, and if you have a blissey in your team, be more of an asshole.
  21. Sork

    Sork

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2012
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    72
    I'm actually quite surprised nobody has mentioned probably the best spinner on sand teams when that exact question was mentioned by the OP.

    Also, concerning sand stall, I definitely think that it is a very viable playstyle at the moment. With Hyper Offense being broken horribly by the recent banning of Deoxys-D, I think that stall teams can finally have their place to shine in the BW2 OU meta. Therefore, in order to keep up the defensive momentum of the team, as well as having an offensive option, I present probably the best spinner on Sand Stall teams, Sandslash.

    [​IMG]
    Sandslash (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sand Rush
    EVs: 252 HP / 216 Def / 40 Spd
    Impish Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Toxic/X-Scissor
    - Earthquake
    - Rapid Spin
    - Stealth Rock

    Sandslash has often been neglected for the role of an offensive poke on most Sand Offense teams mostly due to the fact that Stoutland has a higher attack stat and a higher base speed. With max investment, Sandslash only reaches a disappointing 502 speed, not even being able to outspeed the common scarfers of terrakion and keldeo. However, with Sand Stall, Sandslash has actually carved a great niche in itself, being able to be a fast Stealth Rock user, AND a fast rapid spin user. With the speed investment, Sandslash is able to outspeed Max speed base 110's, most notable Gengar and Latios. Unfortunately, the only move that Sandslash has to be able to hit Gengar with is Stone Edge. On Sand Stall, Sandslash isn't really geared to have an offensive set, so stone edge is usually traded out for a supporting move such as stealth rock. With this set, Sandslash is meant to be someone who can come in for a fast spin, or a fast stealth rock set up, while also being able to hit something with an earthquake coming off of 100 base attack. Toxic is a great move in order to wear down physical opponents thanks to Sandslash's base 110 defenses, while X-scissor can be used to score the 2HKO on non Scarf Latios's after sandstorm damage.

    All in all, Sandslash was made for sand Stall. A fast defensive wall that can spin, set up rocks, toxic an enemy, and also dish out some good damage from a base 100 attack, it pretty much just screams that it's the perfect candidate for a Sand Stall spinner.
  22. ClubbingSealCub

    ClubbingSealCub

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    ^Shadow Gem Shadow Claw lets Sandslash OHKO Gengar and 2HKO Jellicent, something that you probably would want in a defensive spinning 'Slash.
  23. J O G A

    J O G A

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2012
    Messages:
    70
    Special Wall with Roost Option in Sand Storm it is definetely a great help against landorus LO, Keldeo Choice, Latios and some Special attackers, that currently, are most used in the tier, i'm talking about this one.

    [​IMG]

    Mandibuzz (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Overcoat
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Taunt
    - Roost
    - Foul Play
    - U-turn

    Mandibuzz resist many special attacks ( and others physicals ) and some V-Switchs, at same time have access to Roost and his ability, Overcoat, prevents to SS damage. Its speed allows it to pass other walls and taunt them, preventing SR, Spikes and others, of most of wall.
    Foul Play hits hard against most of the Pokemon like Landorus, Reuniclus, Latios, Latias, Celebi and others. At the end, u-turn no needs information, for example, scout against physical pokemon to send out Hippowdon.
  24. Dr Ciel

    Dr Ciel

    Joined:
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    1,287
    That is a very nice set, but have you considered running Toxic over one of those moves for Toxicstalling in a way similar to Gliscor?
  25. Kaos

    Kaos

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2011
    Messages:
    67
    One of the thing's I've always had trouble with when making sandstall has been finding a spinner since Excadrill left the tier. Rain stall has the easy Tentacruel pick, but in sandstall picking Tenta means you can't really take Jellicent, the only good spinblocker, because the typing is too redundant (also Tenta is easily worn down). So the only spinners remaining that aren't absolutely horrible are Starmie, Forretress, and Sandslash (we all know Donphan fails hard). The first of these is complete Pursuit-bait, the second is complete set-up bait, and the last is weak as hell with poor defensive stats and typing that is redundant with the Ground-type physical wall your team is probably running (Gliscor, Landorus-T, or Hippowdon). If anyone has any ideas for a good spinner mon/set it would be much appreciated. On a more positive note...

    Ferrothorn! My absolute favorite from this Gen works quite well not only in Rainstall, but also in Sandstall.

    [​IMG]
    Ferrothorn @ Leftovers / Rocky Helmet
    Trait: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 252 HP / 128 Def / 128 SDef
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Power Whip
    - Leech Seed
    - Protect
    - Spikes

    Ferrothorn can absorb all kinds of hits with great defensive stats and typing, and he is able to effectively check many of the top threats in the metagame. Functions as a pseudo spin-blocker with his ability (especially with Rocky Helmet) for those who can't fit one of the few decent real spin-blockers on their teams (Jellicent is really the only one that comes to mind). Additionally, he is one of the few pokemon remaining in OU who can set up Spikes effectively, and we all know how frustrating Spikes can be for an opponent to deal with, especially on top of Stealth Rock. A Protect + Leech Seed combo makes the most sense for a defensive team in a Sandstorm, racking up maximum residual damage. Power Whip is the attacking move of choice because it hits Starmie, Tentacruel, and various Rain and Sand mons, though its inability to hurt Dragons like Gyro Ball is quite unfortunate. Ferrothorn's 4x Fire weakness out of Rain is an issue, as is his susceptibility to burns, but overall he's a great team player.
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