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OU Playstyles - Week #05 [Sun Offense] - READ OP FIRST!

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by LilOuOn, Mar 8, 2013.

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  1. LilOuOn

    LilOuOn

    Joined:
    May 25, 2012
    Messages:
    651
    Approved by Haunter, Birkal and Huntofthelion​

    OU Playstyles

    By LilOu. With some collaboration of Stoned RG. Special thanks to Shurtugal.

    Welcome to the OU discussion of the different playstyles! The main purpose of this thread is to choose a playstyle every week (I'll choose it) and you, (yes, you), are going to be able to comment, give your opinion and suggest pokemons that should be considered when making a team around the style [posting teams is also allowed, just keep in mind that this is not the RMT forums, so if you want to post a team try to make it short and use sprites of pokes, explain how does the team work and post replays if possible]. Obviously, your comments must have connection with the chosen style, as well as solid arguments of why your comment(s) are valid. With this, newer players can decide what playstyle they like most and, of course, more experienced players can also expand their knowledge. Remember to be friendly with other people; if you disagree with someone's opinion don't slam with an aggressive response, just let everyone know what you think in a kind way. The links to discussions of each playstyle will be posted in the OP so everyone can read it at anytime!

    Don't be afraid of posting! If you have a great offense, stall, etc team, just think about what to say and go for it! Don't forget that participating in this kind of threads gives you opportunity to earn that awesome Community Contributor([​IMG]) badge! Be careful of what you do post! Quality posts will be rewarded, but mediocre comments will be infracted. Do your best and I hope that you like to contribute this thread!


    Summary of the rules (Must read):
    • Make quality posts. No one-lined posts.
    • Your comments must be about the weekly playstyle chosen.
    • No gimmicks. If you decided to post a team (or pokemon) don't suggest using pursuit Tauros to trap Celebi or Latios while there is an overall better option named Tyranitar.
    • Comment how the chosen style affects the current metagame and how it fares in it.
    • Support your team's posts with replays if possible. Explanation of them are a must.
    • Having a wide point of view is needed. Don't post that stall sucks because you always lose to it.
    • Your new ideas must have strong arguments of why them should be considered.
    • This one is important: We don't want this to become a debate of: "this metagame is stale and has no diversity due to weather". This thread is here to make a discussion about the different playstyles, not to discharge all your hate against weather. Please, incoherent posts will be deleted and possibly penalized, so think about what are you going to write.


    Sets suggestions: (New)

    If you are going to post a set, you must follow this format:

    Here a complete example:

    Also, if you are going to post the sprite, I'd really appreciate if you use Smogon's images (the ones that are not moving), this is just because it is really hard to search all images (start a google search with "Latias Smogon", then click the link, then Right Click, then copy image URL and then paste), so it would be really great if you can do that for me. :]
    [​IMG] <3


    Past Discussions:

    • Week #01 (February 8, 2013 - February 15, 2013): Hyper Offense
    • Week #02 (February 15, 2013 - February 22, 2013): Sand Offense
    • Week #03 (February 22, 2013 - March 1, 2013): Rain Offense
    • Week #04 (March 1, 2013 - March 8, 2013): Sand Stall


    Week #05: Sun Offense

    [​IMG]

    So, time for the arguably most offensive of the present weathers in OU, Sun. In general, the offensive pressure it puts on you is at the level of rain offense. This weather condition was blessed, alongside rain, with powerful attackers, to say the least, or ridicoulusly hard-to-check fast sweepers under sun.

    Anyways, what advantages does sun offense have over weathers? Most importantly, what (pokes) stop you from getting offensive momentum? What helps you in getting momentum? And finally, should the entire team be based on offense? Or have some defensive backbone to it?

    By Stoned RGay

    ***What I want to see here is discussion. It's ok to post sets, but posting sets is not the main purpose. If you want to suggest a Pokemon, I strongly recommend to first give your thoughts about the topic and THEN post your suggestion.
  2. LilOuOn

    LilOuOn

    Joined:
    May 25, 2012
    Messages:
    651
    Archive:​



    Pokemons
    Check this (open)

    [​IMG]
    Heatran @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk
    Timid Nature
    - Substitute
    - Fire Blast
    - Earth Power
    - Toxic



    [​IMG]
    Sawsbuck @ Life Orb
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 112 HP / 248 Atk / 148 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Swords Dance
    - Horn Leech
    - Jump Kick
    - Return



    [​IMG]
    Venusaur @ Life Orb
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    Nature: Modest
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    - Growth
    - Giga Drain / Solarbeam
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Sludge Bomb / Sleep Powder



    [​IMG]
    Volcarona @ Life Orb / Lum Berry
    Trait: Flame Body
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 Def
    Timid Nature
    - Quiver Dance
    - Bug Buzz
    - Fire Blast
    - HP Ground / Giga Drain



    [​IMG]
    Ninetales @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Flamethrower
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Roar
    - Sunny Day / Substitute / Hypnosis / Toxic



    [​IMG]
    Ninetales @ Leftovers / Air Balloon / Life Orb
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 HP
    Timid Nature
    - Sunny Day
    - Fire Blast
    - Solarbeam
    - Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Ground / Nasty Plot / Will-O-Wisp



    [​IMG]
    Lilligant @ Life Orb
    Ability: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 60 Defense / 252 Sp Attack / 196 Speed
    Modest nature
    -Leaf Storm
    -Healing Wish
    -Sleep Powder
    -HP Rock / Fire



    [​IMG]
    Shiftry @ Life Orb
    Ability: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 112 Attack / 220 Sp Attack / 176 Speed
    Hasty nature
    -Leaf Storm
    -Sucker Punch
    -Low Kick
    -Hidden Power [Fire] or [Ice]



    [​IMG]
    Hitmontop @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 252 HP 252 Defence 6speed
    Impish Nature
    - Close Combat
    - Stone edge/sucker punch/rest
    - Rapid Spin
    - Foresight



    [​IMG]
    Terrakion @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Swords Dance / Taunt
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge



    [​IMG]
    Terrakion @ Choice Band
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge
    - X-Scissor
    - Rock Slide / Sacred Sword / Quick Attack



    [​IMG]
    Cresselia @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 248 HP / 220 Def / 40 SAtk
    Bold Nature
    - Ice Beam
    - Psyshock
    - Reflect / Thunder Wave / Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Moonlight



    [​IMG]
    Heatran @ Air Ballon
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
    - Fire Blast
    - Earth Power
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Stealth Rock / Toxic



    [​IMG]
    Heatran @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
    - Magma Storm
    - Earth Power
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Sunny Day / Substitute



    [​IMG]
    Heatran @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SAtk
    Quiet Nature
    IVs: 30 Atk / 30 Def / 0 Spd
    - Fire Blast
    - Earth Power
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Eruption



    [​IMG]
    Slowking @ Leftovers
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 216 HP / 184 Def / 108 SDef
    Relaxed Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Trick Room
    - Toxic / Dragon Tail
    - Ice Beam
    - Psyshock



    [​IMG]
    Shiftry @ Life Orb
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Lonely Nature
    - Sucker Punch
    - Nature Power
    - Leaf Storm
    - Low Kick



    [​IMG]
    Victreebel @ Life Orb
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 120 Atk / 136 SpA / 252 Spe
    Naive Nature
    - Leaf Blade
    - Weather Ball
    - Growth
    - Hidden Power Ice / Sludge Bomb




    Teams!
    Tobe's team (open)

    Cannonball

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

  3. Ninetale3

    Ninetale3

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2011
    Messages:
    154
    Sun offense has the potential to be one of the more unpredictable playstyles in ou thanks to the fire types, clorophyll users and ground types that are no longer afraid of water movers gives it a bigger array of offensive threats to choose from. This wide range can even have Ninetales take an offensive role as the offensive variant is not a common sight and can nab a couple ko's here and there if played right.

    With all these offensive threats at your disposal you would think there is a decent amount of defensive options to take a few hits too. Well there aren't many defensive pokes that make use of the weather outside of donphan and heatran that have good synergy with the offensive pokes. So the majority of Sun offense tends to run some lackluster defenses for the most part just to have a spinner or magic bouncer.

    So is this playstyle bad?

    No but it is one of the more unforgiving playstyles as well as one of the more rewarding since it tends to rely on it's own weather and will more often than not fall short if it loses the weather war. you have to be well prepared for anything with this sort of team and have a plan if something goes wrong in the battle. However it can reward you in chlorophyll users being able to keep up sometimes surpassing the opponent's scarfer's speed ultimately giving you a sweep right then and there if the weather war is won. It is a playstyle you must try at least once to see if you like the feel.
  4. lapras6666

    lapras6666

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2011
    Messages:
    591
    Sun Offense can prove to be an amazing playstyle if, firstly, you use all of its unique perks and advantages to their fullest potential, and secondly, the right amount of support for these perks and advantages to work well against other kinds of teams. The combination of these two is the only way that a sun team can work, otherwise it will be a downright mess.

    The problem with sun teams is that most pokemon that benefit from the sun a notable amount usually have some distinct flaws that really prevent them from being the most reliable options for a team. Some examples are how all of the Chlorophyll users share one type, the grass type, which is coincidentially countered by the most common defensive type in the game, the Steel type, or how must fire-type abusers of the sun are weak to Stealth Rock and need constant Rapid Spin support to not lose considerable amounts of their health.

    This is why Sun might just be the most risky and unreliable playstyle there is, as you need to have the perfect situation in order to sweep your opponent's team with a Sun abuser. It also requires a good amount of teambuilding skill to create these kind of teams, as not only are you limited to five team slots (as Ninetales is pretty much useless), but you also have to take care of Rain, Sand and, to a certain extent, Hail, with the former being the hardest to counter. As well as this, you need to make sure that your team has enough supporters that your main sun sweeper can truly sweep, which might take a Pokemon or two.

    Taking all of this into account, i've been using an excellent mid-game cleaner which uses the sun to its fullest advantage and is able not only to counter many weathers at the same time but be a powerful force all by its own. It also doesn't have any particular flaw or counter that stops it right in its tracks.

    [​IMG]
    Heatran @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk
    Timid Nature
    - Substitute
    - Fire Blast
    - Earth Power
    - Toxic

    I personally adore this set. It's main goal is to clean up the most threats possible with its powerful Fire Blast and its crippling Toxic so that my late-game sweeper (usually a Grass type or another Pokemon that benefits from the sun like Terrakion or Landorus) can effectively clean up the remaining Pokemon of the opponent's team. Under the sun, this Pokemon is a complete beast. The main promise of this set is to set up a Substitute on the switch in (which is very easy considering Heatran's typing and natural defenses, something that most sun abusers don't offer), and then abuse one of the three remaining moves, depending on the Pokemon. If the sun is still up, I will almose always go for the Fire Blast, which is incredibly powerful, OHKOing or 2HKOing pretty much everything in the game that is not named Chansey or Latias. I usually use Earth Power for the rare moments that a Tentacruel or Terrakion comes in, which is an easy 2HKO. Finally, Toxic is used if a weather inducer comes along like Politoed or Tyranitar or if a specially defensive behemoth does the same, like Chansey or Latias, which severly cripples them, which is especially important if I hit a weather inducer, since I decrease its survivavility, making the sun easier to set up. The EV's and nature are quite simple, it's all out speed and attack. Overall, this set is amazing, as it can beat many, many sun threats with its crippling Toxic and it can destroy teams with its immensly powerful Fire Blast, all complemented with an incredible base stats and typing, which can fit very well in any sun team.
  5. Cinco Diablo

    Cinco Diablo

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,280
    [​IMG]
    Sawsbuck @ Life Orb
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 112 HP / 248 Atk / 148 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Swords Dance
    - Horn Leech
    - Jump Kick
    - Return

    If you're looking for an underrated Chlorophyll sweeper wuth a little bit of bulk, Sawsbuck is the Pokemon you are looking for. With an excellent base Attack of 100, solid base 90 Speed, Sawsbuck is perfect for a physical Sun sweeper. Now, these may seem like some weird EV's, but they are actually very simple. The 148 Speed EV's are to outspeed base 108 Speed Pokemon, Scarf Terrakion and +2 Timid Cloyster, while the rest of the EV's are placed into Attack and HP, respectively. Swords Dance is an obvious choice for this set, as it raies Sawsbucks average Attack stat to a staggering 654, allowing it to take out even the bulkiest of Physical walls in the OU metagame. Horn Leech is the crux of this set, taking down water types that may otherwise trouble it, such as Starmie, Jellicent, Keldeo, Politoed, Vaporeon and a few others. Jump Kick is an excellent move to hit most Steel types hard, especially the likes of Heatran and Ferrothorn. Finally, Return is an excellent STAB option, with base 102 power and solid neutral coverage. Nature Power can also be used over Jump Kick to hit the likes of Jirachi hard. Despite being one of the new Chlorophyll users, it is arguably one of the best.​
  6. Groudon ex

    Groudon ex

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2007
    Messages:
    250
    i do enjoy using offensive sun teams, but they tend to be completely reliant on winning the weather, more so than other team archetypes. if you lose the weather war, your team will fall to pieces. however, sun is definitely the most dangerous weather once it's up, so such risks are worth taking. one thing i have to stress is that dugtrio is absolutely essential for all sun teams; not just offensively inclined ones. this should be a given for a number of reasons, but most notably because tyranitar and heatran are such massive threats to sun teams that lack them. since you absolutely must win the weather war, i actually like to use a trapper duo of specs goth and sash dugtrio on my sun offense teams. the pair of them can remove all four of the rival weather starters from play, meaning that you should always win the weather war under normal circumstances. they can also take out anything that may trouble your sweepers later on in the match. utilising this core may limit you to only three main pokemon to use (since ninetales doesn't really count), but that's still enough to create a solid team. venusaur usually occupies a slot by default, though it's most certainly not the only viable sun sweeper out there.

    here's the goth/dug sets, in case anyone was wondering.

    [​IMG]

    gothitelle @ choice specs
    trait: shadow tag
    evs: 36 def / 252 satk / 220 spd
    timid nature
    - psychic
    - thunderbolt
    - hidden power [fire]
    - trick

    [​IMG]

    dugtrio @ focus sash
    trait: arena trap
    evs: 252 atk / 4 sdef / 252 spd
    jolly nature
    ivs: 21 hp
    - stealth rock
    - earthquake
    - reversal
    - stone edge
  7. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winner

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2012
    Messages:
    2,959
    oh boy this is my thing
    [​IMG]
    Victini @ Choice Band
    Trait: Victory Star
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - U-Turn
    - V-Create
    - Fusion Bolt
    - Brick Break / Zen Headbutt

    i'll post a lot more later because i'm very busy today, but victini's awesome and you all know how strong cb v-create is :toast:
  8. EspeonX

    EspeonX

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2011
    Messages:
    69
    Well, Sun Offense isn't Sun Offense without:

    [​IMG] @ Life Orb
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    Nature: Modest
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    - Growth
    - Giga Drain / Solarbeam
    - Hidden Power {Fire}
    - Sludge Bomb / Sleep Powder

    That, straight off the analysis.

    Venusaur should always be considered on a Sun Offense team, and for good reason. It is hard to stop under sunlight, and even the things that can halt it's sweep (like Heatran) are crippled by Sleep Powder.
    Growth is the boosting move for Venusaur, providing a Nasty Plot under sunlight in both Attack and Special Attack, making for a tricky sweeper that could be tweaked to go mixed. Giga Drain is available through BW2 Tutors and provides valuable recovery, but Solarbeam is a powerful STAB to use (but is nerfed quickly by other weather inducers). HP Fire is pseudo STAB in the sun, giving grass types a tough attack to tank, and is good coverage with Giga Drain. The last slot is up to the user. Sludge Bomb allows you to hit the Dragons who otherwise wall you hard at +2, whilst Sleep Powder does a similar job, but gets to essentially take any one thing out of the match, like Heatran.

    However, Modest Venusaur is outsped by Scarfed base 110 speed pokemon, like Latios/as. It also hates it when weather inducers switch in to take the sunlight away. Chansey and Blissey can take it on with Thunder Wave, but they dislike mixed sets. Basically, when it has put something to sleep, it is easier to wall, but Heatran stops sets lacking EQ, HP Fighting and Sleep Powder.

    Good partners include those who can take on Heatran and special walls like Latias/Chansey/Blissey. Terrakion can give Heatran, Chansey and Blissey a fright, but must be wary of Thunder Wave and Will-O-Wisp from the blobs and Heatran respectively.
  9. RabidChipmunk

    RabidChipmunk

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2012
    Messages:
    493
    When I think of sun offense, I think of...

    [​IMG]
    Volcarona @ Life Orb / Lum Berry
    Trait: Flame Body
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 Def
    Timid Nature
    - Quiver Dance
    - Bug Buzz
    - Fire Blast
    - HP Ground / Giga Drain

    Volcarona is the ultimate feast or famine Pokemon. Ridiculous SpA and the most broken boosting move in the game make Volcarona a mighty threat, but a ho-hum speed and crippling 4x weakness to Stealth Rock, alongside its vulnerability to all other hazards, keep it from destroying everything ever.

    As far as the set goes, HP Ground is for getting past Heatran, which will wall this set to hell and back, but if you have another Pokemon on your team dealing with Heatran (cough Dugtrio cough), then Giga Drain is an excellent option to tell rain teams to fuck off. Life Orb grants Volcarona more power, while Lum Berry lets it set up a little more carelessly and preserves some of it's nice natural bulk.


    Also, I saw someone mention in another thread about Choice Band Sawsbuck for sun teams, and I have to say, I actually quite like it. He really is like a sun team Stoutland.
  10. jpw234

    jpw234

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2013
    Messages:
    168
    Sun Offense is an awesome playstyle in BW2 OU, but personally I consider it a style that requires a lot more battling and teambuilding ability to master than say, rain stall or sand offense. This is because, as was mentioned earlier, sun offense teams tend to be completely reliant on the weather. Most Chlorophyll sweepers are rather slow without the boost granted by the sun, and frail enough that most SE attacks will finish them off. In addition, the weakness that fire types have to Stealth Rock and the fact that almost all sun pokemon are grounded makes entry hazards a pressing concern, so it's important to have a rapid spinner or reliable magic bouncer to ensure your side of the field stays clean.

    Sun teams are more reliant than most on maintaining momentum. Hard-countering one of your pokemon can cause say, a rain stall team to seize control of the weather and began battering down your sweepers. For this reason many sun teams take advantage of trapping pokemon and U-Turners to maintain pressure, keep the sun up, and clear the way for a sweep.

    First off is Ninetales, obviously mandatory for a sun offense team. Ninetales is a tough pokemon to figure out for an offensive team because it doesn't have U-Turn or Volt Switch to maintain momentum, has trouble hitting opposing weather starters hard when sun isn't up, and in general doesn't have great offensive stats. There are several ways to work around these weaknesses.
    First is to give up on making Ninetales an offensive threat and simply protect him to keep the sun up, playing it defensively and switching it in as little as possible. Here's a reasonable go at a defensive Ninetales set:
    [​IMG]
    Ninetales @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Flamethrower
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Roar
    - Sunny Day / Substitute / Hypnosis / Toxic
    This Ninetales plays very conservatively, keeping sun up and probably not doing much else. Flamethrower is a reasonably powerful STAB move particularly under sun and prevents Ninetales from being complete Taunt bait. WoW is good to catch incoming physical attackers, particularly opposing Tyranitar. Roar is good to have in general, and in particular prevents setup sweepers from freely boosting in front of Ninetales. The last slot carries a lot of different options. You can use Sunny Day to grab momentum after an opposing weather inducer switches in, however, this Ninetales doesn't have Solarbeam to punish those switches, so you're likely to be switching out of everything except defensive Politoed anyway. Substitute helps ease prediction and allows you to land a status or attack on an incoming Pokemon. Hypnosis has very shaky accuracy but can cripple an opposing weather inducer or critical pokemon. Finally, Toxic can be used and is probably slightly better against opposing Politoed, but is slightly redundant given WoW.

    Broadly, the other way to use Ninetales is to try to incorporate into your offensive playstyle. While 81 Special Attack is not particularly impressive, 100 Speed is the fastest of any weather inducer and Ninetales can hit reasonably hard when the sun is up. Here's a basic offensive set:
    [​IMG]
    Ninetales @ Leftovers / Air Balloon / Life Orb
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 HP
    Timid Nature
    - Sunny Day
    - Fire Blast
    - Solarbeam
    - Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Ground / Nasty Plot / Will-O-Wisp
    This is an offensive Ninetales that gives you a way to hit back against opposing weather starters and sweepers who want to ruin your fun. The crux of this set is Sunny Day, which seems slightly redundant on a pokemon with Drought, but is crucial to your success. Sunny Day must be used when Politoed, Tyranitar or Hippowdon switches in, maintaining the sun and immediately putting a lot of pressure on your opponent. With sun up, Solarbeam takes only one turn and hits reasonably hard:
    Show Hide
    252 SpA Ninetales SolarBeam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Politoed: 192-226 (50 - 58.85%) -- 72.66% chance to 2HKO
    252 SpA Ninetales SolarBeam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Politoed: 192-226 (59.62 - 70.18%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252 SpA Ninetales SolarBeam vs. 180 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar: 192-226 (49.74 - 58.54%) -- 99.61% chance to 2HKO
    52 SpA Ninetales SolarBeam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar: 138-164 (34.15 - 40.59%) -- 50.83% chance to 3HKO
    252 SpA Ninetales Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 12 SpD Hippowdon in sun: 276-325 (65.71 - 77.38%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252 SpA Ninetales Fire Blast vs. 188 HP / 0 SpD Abomasnow in sun: 984-1156 (267.39 - 314.13%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    In addition, sun means you'll take a pittance from Politoed's Scald or Hydro Pump, and removes Tyranitar's special defense boost. A good use of Sunny Day will either allow you to put massive damage on the opposing weather starter, or force them out and leave you with sun up, and an opportunity to set up your own attackers or pound on the rest of their team. However, running this set requires very good prediction capabilities. If you don't use Sunny Day at the right time you're likely to get whacked with a powerful attack or succumb to the opposition's defensive pokemon.
    Sunny Day has been explained. Solarbeam takes advantage of the sun to hit the aforementioned weather starters and also badly hurts other bulky waters. Fire Blast is a powerful STAB which is additionally by the sun, becoming rather frightening even off of a mediocre 81 Special Attack. There are several options in the last slot. Hidden Power Ice gives you much-needed coverage against dragons, who otherwise wall this set and will take the opportunity to set up in your face. Hidden Power Ground is a good way to catch Heatran, a notorious enemy of sun teams, but other steels are mostly roasted with Fire Blast. Nasty Plot can make Ninetales into a legitimate offensive threat, but it's still rather frail and leaving such a critical pokemon exposed may not be to your liking. Finally, Will-O-Wisp provides a way to cripple physical attackers who might force you out.
    There are several options for your item on this set. Leftovers maintains survivability, which is always good because again, Ninetales is crucial to your strategy. Air Balloon, on the other hand, dodges powerful Earthquakes and allows Ninetales to come in on additional threats and beat several additional pokemon. For example, with Air Balloon intact, if Hippowdon switches in and you Sunny Day you can 2HKO without fear. In addition, Dugtrio can't EQ you, and you beat threats like Gliscor. However it is a one-time use item which can often be worthless in a battle. Finally you could use Life Orb to boost your offenses a bit, but you aren't going to grab a massive number of new KOs and it hurts Ninetales' bulk a LOT.

    Okay, so now that we've got the weather starter out of the way, we should get to looking at how we're going to exploit the sun. On Sun Offense teams this is going to involve two different kind of sweepers - hard-hitting fire types, and Chlorophyll abusers. I'm partial to the first kind, but lets look at the pokemon with Chlorophyll first.
    Of course, Chloropyhll doubles the speed of a pokemon in the sun, meaning that your abusers are going to outspeed even many Choice Scarf users. The viable abusers are Venusaur, Sawsbuck, Lilligant, Shiftry, Tangrowth, Victreebel, and Exeggutor. The ones that you're going to see the most are Venusaur and Sawsbuck - the rest of them are alright and have their niches, but the most solid are these two.

    Venusaur, the first fully evolved pokemon in the pokedex, got a huge boost with the gift of Chloropyhll as its Dream World ability. It has three main sets it can run, but one of them is SubSeed which is not really Sun Offense, so lets look at the other two - special and physical Growth sweepers.

    [​IMG]
    Venusaur @ Life Orb
    Trait: Chloropyhll
    EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 HP
    Modest Nature
    - Growth
    - Giga Drain
    - Sludge Bomb
    - Hidden Power Fire / Earthquake / Sleep Powder
    Meet Venusaur, an absolutely devastating sweeper under the sun who can maul many teams after a single Growth boost. In the sun, Growth gives +2 Attack and +2 Special Attack, turning Venusaur into a terrifying attacker capable of finishing off even mostly healthy teams. Growth is your set up move, and once you get one off, the party begins. The next two are STAB moves that provide reasonable coverage. Giga Drain's power buff this generation makes it very viable, and the health regeneration is very welcome. This does a number on the water type pokemon that are prevalent in the metagame, as well as ground/rock types. Sludge Bomb isn't such a common move because Poison is such a bad attacking type, but considering its high base power and STAB it hurts everything it hits neutrally, and it also hits the grass types that resist Giga Drain super effectively. There's some room for variation in the last couple of slots. With Giga Drain and Sludge Bomb you're fairly weak to steels, so a sun-boosted HP Fire seems very good. On the other hand, Earthquake still hits steels super effectively, while wrecking Heatran (a thorn in the side of most sun teams) and allowing you to hit from both sides of the spectrum. Earthquake is still quite powerful after a Growth boost, even if uninvested. However, if you do use EQ you'll want either a Mild or Rash nature. Finally, you can use Sleep Powder to remove a counter, which is always good despite its slightly shaky accuracy.

    An alternative physical set can be used with Growth, Seed Bomb, and two of Return, Earthquake, Hidden Power Fire or Sleep Powder. This plays very similarly, but hits off of Venusaur's weaker Attack stat in order to surprise usual counters. For example, against offensive Latias:
    +2 252+ Atk Life Orb Venusaur Return vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latias: 255-300 (84.43 - 99.33%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

    The other most viable Chlorophyll abuser is Sawsbuck, who is rather underrated by many OU players. A base 100 attack stat, Swords Dance, STAB Return and access to Earthquake (through Nature Power) makes him quite scary under the sun. Here's a good set:
    [​IMG]
    Sawsbuck @ Life Orb
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 252 Atk / 112 HP / 148 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Swords Dance
    - Return
    - Horn Leech
    - Nature Power / Jump Kick
    This is a scary physical sweeper after it grabs a Swords Dance boost and under the sun it outspeeds base 108 Scarfers like Keldeo. At +2, Sawsbuck is working off of 656 attack and is prepare to lay waste to the opposing team. Return is a powerful STAB option that will probably OHKO most neutral offensive pokemon it hits. However when possible you'll want to use Horn Leech, which also gains STAB, hits almost as hard, and heals Sawsbuck of the Life Orb damage it will be racking up. In the final slot you have a choice between attacks to deal with steel types, as you did with Venusaur. Nature Power is always Earthquake in simulator battles, wrecking Heatran, Jirachi, Metagross and more. Jump Kick is an alternative which hits Ferrothorn and Tyranitar harder and can be used against Skarmory, however, if you miss you'll take a lot of damage and you can't hit Jirachi or Metagross super effectively. Sawsbuck is nice compared to other sweepers because it gives you a built-in way to kill Heatran, a major threat to most offensive sun teams.

    I'll add to this sooooooon~~
  11. BlackLight

    BlackLight

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2012
    Messages:
    675
    Sun is a weird weather. It has two big weaknesses; one, that Ninetales is terrible, and two, that a lot of sun Pokemon are very dependent on the weather being the right one. The first problem can be mitigated by a number of ways, such as using Sunny Day on Ninetales to prevent other weather inducers from forcing it out, or running Rapid Spin support to prevent Ninetales, and the other Pokemon on the team, from being affected by Stealth Rock.
    The second problem stems from the kinds of Pokemon that are used on sun teams. Venusaur is a prime example. In the sun, it gains double speed, gains the ability to use Growth in order to double both its attacking stats at once, and has one of its coverage moves, Hidden Power Fire, gain a boost in power. The problem is that these gains can be removed by simply changing the weather. If Politoed switches in on Venusaur, perhaps to absorb a Sleep Powder or on a predicted Growth, Venusaur suddenly loses a large amount of its usefulness. It can most likely knock out Politoed, but beyond that, its lack of Speed and power will make it easy to beat.
    As a result, the best Pokemon for sun, imo, are the ones that appreciate the sun, but can serve a purpose if forced outside of it. These Pokemon are a lot less used, but they can serve a purpose no matter what kind of conditions are on the field.

    [​IMG]
    Lilligant @ Life Orb
    Ability: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 60 Defense / 252 Sp Attack / 196 Speed
    Modest nature
    -Leaf Storm
    -Healing Wish
    -Sleep Powder
    -HP Rock / Fire

    Lilligant makes for an excellent support Pokemon on Sun teams. Its notable abilities include being able to one shot both Politoed and Tyranitar in their respective weathers. Sleep Powder allows for Lilligant to neutralize any Pokemon you'd like to put away, which of course is a huge deal. Healing Wish gives Lilligant the ability to fully heal any Pokemon on your team, at the cost of Lilligant's life. This is extremely important during weather wars, as Healing Wish acts before hazards do, allowing you to give a <%25 Ninetales another chance to set up sun, or a paralyzed Volcarona another chance at a sweep. Finally, the last option is just for coverage. EVs are for maximum power, with the ability to outspeed Scarfed 110s in sun and the ability to tank a LO Ice Shard from Jolly Mamoswine.

    [​IMG]
    Shiftry @ Life Orb
    Ability: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 112 Attack / 220 Sp Attack / 176 Speed
    Hasty nature
    -Leaf Storm
    -Sucker Punch
    -Low Kick
    -Hidden Power Fire / Ice
    Shiftry is a relatively mediocre Pokemon in most cases, but on sun teams, it has a good niche as a mixed attacker, with priority in Sucker Punch. This allows Shiftry to perform a variety of tasks, from a wallbreaker, antiweather support, revenge killer, and cleaner. Leaf Storm, as usual, is very, very powerful, getting the OHKO on Politoed. Low Kick provides an OHKO on Tyranitar, as well as the ability to do a good helping of damage on Heatran, who can be annoying for sun teams to face. Hidden Power Fire is always a good option in sun, as it deals out a lot of damage to the like of Skarmory and Forretress, though HIdden Power Ice has its uses for nailing the dragon types that could otherwise try to set up. Sucker Punch is what makes Shiftry viable, though, as it destroys the likes of Latios and Latias, Alakazam, Gengar, and many fast, powerful attackers, like Landorus, who is known for giving Sun teams trouble.
  12. Spirit

    Spirit
    is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2013
    Messages:
    1,224
    [​IMG]

    If you're running sun offense, it is essential that Venusaur is part of your team, as it is, bar none, the best chlorophyll sweeper in the game. I've noticed in this thread that all the Vensusaur sets are modest. IMO if you're running a special sweeping set, timid is vital in order to not be out-sped by things like scarf Latios or Keldeo. Due to that fact that other chlorophyll sweepers run positive attack natures along with other Venusaur, running a positive speed nature is in your best interest. Anyway, this is the set I've been working with it's pretty darn good from what I've seen.

    Venusaur@Life Orb
    Trait:Chlorophyll
    EVs 46 Def / 252 SpA / 210 Spe
    Nature:Timid
    -Growth
    -Giga Drain
    -Sludge bomb
    -Hidden Power [Fire]


    The EV's look a bit odd, but hear me out. The speed Ev's give venusaur enough speed to out run scarf Starmie the most significant scarfer to outrun, and probably one of the least common. The 46 defense Ev's are dumped into defense for two reasons: 1, When Venusaur is using Giga drain it recovers more health, and 2, Priority attacks are frequently targeted at Venusaur, so investing in the defensive EVs allows it to take more priority than a normal Venusaur would. For example 252 Choice Band Adamant Mamoswine Ice Shard Vs 0/46 Venusaur =79.73-94.68%. At full health, Venusaur can live the Ice Shard, and use Giga drain to restore its health and continue sweeping, situational, but useful at times. Giga Drain and Sludge bomb are obligatory stabs, and together, along with Hidden Power Fire, they have perfect coverage on everything bar Heatran. The power loss is kind of a bummer, but the ability to not be revenge killed by anything but priority(and ditto) users is oh so good. Unless you like being revenge killed, timid is the way to go.
  13. malomyotismon

    malomyotismon

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2008
    Messages:
    344
    let's have a bit more of a support pokemon for sun team, with offensive presence at the same time.

    Name Hitmontop @ Leftovers
    [​IMG]
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 252 HP 252 Defence 6speed
    Impish Nature
    - Close Combat
    - Stone edge/sucker punch/rest
    - Rapid Spin
    - Foresight

    The thing with hitmontop and sun teams is he is a bit like donphan, but unlike donphan, he has certain qualities that make better or worse than his rolling counterpart. First thing's first, the reason to ever use hitmontop in the first place is rapid spin and this is where hitmontop shines. While he is hurt by all hazards, he is able to rapid spin on ghosts, something which no other rapid spinner can boast, thanks to foresight. Against jellificent, hitmontop has no real problems, other than a burn from scald, but in sunlight it's going to be incredibly weak and despite his awful hp, he is reasonably bulky on the special side, comparable to rotom, only talking 124 damage in the rain from scald and getting rid of hazards for the trouble of just trying to hurt him, allowing ninetales and volcanora to come in. Mean while gengar, standard sub set only takes 144 off maximum. While this may seem alot remember gengar will normally sub and as for jelificent, catch it in the sun and it cna't do a thing than try to taunt. The objective of removing hazards from the field is easily done as niether of these two mons can 2ko top and top can get hazards away from them pretty easily as even if gengar subs, you still get the spin and none of the damage.

    Hitmontop can also deal with threats to sun teams while spinning, namely tyranitar, who he resists both his stab moves and unlike donphan, will not be picked off while weakened by an ice beam, with only cb super power doing any real damage (42%). Terrakion is a different story, at 1+ he becomes quite a problem with cc doing 83% with cc and 26% with stone edge, making top a check at best, since top can ko with cc 100% of the time dealing 106% damage minimum. Scarf and non boosted variants top can shine a bit better as a counter as cc will not nearly do as much damage.

    Hitmontops main issues are the complete lack of recovery and the inability to set up SR it's self, which donphan can do. The Sr isn't a huge deal as sun partner heatran can deal with that, but th lack of recovery is. Top is not weak to SR, but it is weak to spikes and that can be a problem when you don't have a recovery move, unlike starmie. Top isn't super bulky either thanks to that terrible hp and relies heavily on intimidate to gain any real phsyical bulk as 95 defence is average at best. This means he is often batter around and will quickly loose hp and would very much like wish support. Toxic spikes are kind of a non issue, when your probably going to be using venasaur.
  14. Cinco Diablo

    Cinco Diablo

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,280
    Well, in my experience with sun teams, I have found a very interesting combo that can be used on sun teams and very successful. The 2 Pokemon are Chandelure and Forretress. Now, I know what you're thinking, why would anyone use Forretress in a Sun team? The next question is, why use Chandelure when potential powerhouses such as Victini and Darmanitan exist? Well, Forretress draws in Fire attacks, allowing Chandelure to set up a Substitute and start a potential sweep. From Chandelure's perspective, the hazards allow him to grab some key KO's (as explained in further detail later in this post) Not only that, but hazards not only help Chandelure grab some important KO's, but they also may lure in Forretress, coming in to spin the hazards, so Chandelure can take on a different role as an offensive spin blocker. This combo is very interesting, and I would recommend some of you to try it out. I've found it very successful, and I hope some of you find it as successful as I have. Here are the sets for Forry and Chandy.

    [​IMG]
    Forretress @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 180 Def / 76 SDef
    Relaxed Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Rapid Spin
    - Stealth Rock
    - Volt Switch
    - Gyro Ball

    [​IMG]
    Chandelure @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Substitute
    - Fire Blast
    - Shadow Ball
    - Hidden Power [Ground]




  15. Neliel

    Neliel Sacred Sword

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2012
    Messages:
    565
    oh, i should leave some word in this topic, being a dedicate sun player :x

    I've studied this playstile for months and i probably tried everything usable, and i came to the conclusion that there are two main ways to build sun offense teams. The first one, is the more standard, consisting of ninetales+spinner/bouncer+dugtrio +cloro+rkiller+filler. This strategy actually works good (see lavos team as a clear example) but it has some flaws, which is for example being repetitive. I dont know if its just me but, yeah you might try a different cloro user for whatever reason but you always come up that venusaur its better, you need dugtrio in every team to avoid that heatran walls you entirely, then you have to choose a spinner... and here things get complicated. Starmie can maybe be used but having a stabless pokemon that needs recover/spin/hp fire makes it really setup fodder so you should not use it at the end. Donphan should not even get a mention in my opinion but, it doesnt make sense in a team with dugtrio anyway. Then there is forretress, which is somehow ok, but it doesnt really fit the offensive nature of sun offense team, so you should not use it. Then, what else? xatu its an ok choice, even though you really rely on prediction to avoid some stealth rock users to setup on you (aka landorus-t/garchomp/terrak) which is a risky choice. With this i mean that with those type of team you dont find much room for creativity, and you end up with the same conclusion for some forced choice in the team building. This is what sometimes descourages a lot of player from building and playing with sun teams, not only they are not creative, but they also has serious flaws that can be played around sometimes, some others not.
    It is true btw that sun offense paired with dugtrio AND gothitelle is a pain in the ass because your weather summoner will be trapped and then its very difficult to deal with venu and strong flare blitz, but you also have to note that the slot you had previously for your spinner is now gothitelle, so its really risky to play with an huge stealth rock weakness.
    The other thing i dont like is, when people uses sun "just to win against others weather". I mean, its an ok strategy but if you have spent 5 slot only to abuse of a clorophill user then you are doing it wrong, if you want to use sun then you have to take advantage of it as much as you can. The antimg concept of using ninetales to win weather wars is played better by abomasnow in any case, which has a better offensive presence.
    Now, i said there was two ways to do sun offense teams, the first being the standard one, while the second its what ill tell now. Since i said there was basically no decent choice for a sun spinner, no room for creativity, forcing to run dugtrio everytime, i tried to do something completely different. A team consisting of Ninetales+venusaur+lucario+scizor+dragonite+kabutops (that you can see in one of my rtm) its completely different from the standard one. Basically you have Ninetales that makes venusaur a threatening sweeper, with earthquake, that lets you bypass heatran, so that you dont necessarily have to lose a slot for dugtrio, then kabutops, stealth rocker and spinner of the team. Kabutops has rapid spin, yes, but its obvious that it rarely get any chance to effectively spin, but this is not even a big problem, since as you can see the only thing really reliant on sun is venusaur, so losing the weather war does not correspond to lose the battle. For istance, since tornadus is banned now, the kabutops role can be played even better by sash terrakion with taunt; if you prevent them from using sr early game, you can take advantage of that turn they lose later to setup them to smash them with some sweepers. The point is that even if they setup them, you dont necessarily lose the battle. Also since you can use Lucario/venu/scizor whatever you want to beat heatran, you dont have forced choice in the team building, and you can be even more creative. Well, i might post some sets but you already posted some, all i can tell you is to use more lilligant which is a very nice choice if your team relies too much on sun to win, and maybe try the core dugtrio+scarf chandelure which is very effective.
  16. Explorer

    Explorer

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2012
    Messages:
    684
    How about Houndoom?

    Houndoom (M) @ Life Orb
    Ability: Flash Fire
    EVs: 4 Atk/252 SpA/252 Spe
    Nature: Naive
    -Fire Blast
    -Sucker Punch
    -Pursuit/Hidden Power Ice
    -Solarbeam

    Houndoom may look outclassed by Heatran and Chandelure as a Flash Fire abuser, but it has some niches of its own. It is immune to Psychic attacks and Fire attacks together, putting a cold stop to Choice-locked Victini. It can use LO, STAB, Sun-boosted, Flash Fire-boosted 120 BP Fire Blasts with a base 110 Special Attack (http://www.smogon.com/bw/pokemon/houndoom/moves). With all those factors, Fire Blast has a Base Power of 540! Sucker Punch picks off weakened Pokemon, and has STAB. Pursuit can be used to trap Pokemon such as Victini and Gengar, or HP Ice can be used for Dragon-types and Gliscor. Lastly, Solarbeam covers most of Houndoom's weaknesses and is a great move for sun teams in general.
  17. Dark Fallen Angel

    Dark Fallen Angel FIDDLESTICKS IS ALSO GOOD ON MID!

    Joined:
    May 23, 2012
    Messages:
    799
    Just here to say that sun teams do not necessarily need to use Dugtrio. Although Dugtrio has the ability to trap the opponent, this is not to say that you cannot replace it with something else that can defeat Heatran and Tyranitar. For me, the most effective choice has been:

    [​IMG]

    Yes, you've seen it right: Terrakion. It is an amazing choice for sun teams because it does not limit itself to just defeating Heatran and Tyranitar, and is really useful for a myriad of choices. It can be a Stealth Rock lead, and if you pair it with Xatu, it can even be a secondary sweeper just in case that Venusaur died or will not be an effective way to deal with the opposing team. Terrakion also benefits by losing its weakness to Water (but at the cost of losing its resistance to Fire). The two most effective choices on a sun team are:

    Terrakion @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Swords Dance / Taunt
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge

    It plays very much like Dugtrio, as it setups Stealth Rock and kills the opponent's Heatran or Tyranitar. However, it trades the ability to trap the opponent for being able to hit much harder, and being useful outside the "get rid of Heatran/Tyranitar" role. It can setup Stealth Rock by forcing the opponent to switch, and thanks to Stone Edge, opposing Xatu fears switching-in. After you got rid of Heatran or Tyranitar, and your opponent has Stealth Rock on their side, Terrakion can sweep or weaken the opposing team with a combination of Swords Dance, Close Combat, and Stone Edge. If your Terrakion fails to sweep, at least you can later send your Venusaur to clean up the rest. Taunt can replace Swords Dance to avoid opposing setup, but be wary that this move was really only useful at the time that Deoxys-D was unbanned, and Forretress can beat Terrakion 1x1 by using repeated Gyro Balls, and using Rapid Spin to get rid of Stealth Rock and OHKO Terrakion at same time when it reaches the last HP point thanks to Focus Sash.

    The good thing about Terrakion is that thanks to Focus Sash, it is also an extremely good check to Pokémon that would otherwise threathen sun teams, such as opposing sun sweepers like Volcarona.

    Terrakion @ Choice Band
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge
    - X-Scissor
    - Rock Slide / Sacred Sword / Quick Attack

    This set also plays like Dugtrio, and its job is to get rid of Tyranitar and Heatran. However, it cannot trap the opponent. However, it can abuse the fact that your opponent will certainly switch out, and as Terrakion's STABs have amazing coverage, you can hit the opponent for tons of damage even if they resist its moves. For example, Latios will hate having to switch in even on Close Combat. Landorus-T will hate having to switch on repeated Stone Edges, thanks to its lack of recovery. This will weaken the team to the point that your Chlorophyll sweeper can later, on battle, clean up the rest.

    I've been using Terrakion effectively as my Heatran/Tyranitar check, and must say that it's not like it is not effective. Although most sun teams would rather use Dugtrio or Gothitelle, Terrakion works because although it cannot trap the opponent, it is very versatile and is not limited to simply doing its job and then working as a death fodder. Terrakion can work as a wallbreaker and secondary sweeper if needed to.
  18. DarkBlazeR

    DarkBlazeR

    Joined:
    May 20, 2009
    Messages:
    387
    Although using Dugtrio isn't absolutely mandatory, from my experience sun teams will always struggle against Heatran to a degree without it. Terrakion may be able to beat those two, but it will never stay in to let you kill it. You cannot rely on it by any means; at the very least you need to have some lures (e.g. Earthquake Venusaur, Brick Break Victini, HP Ground Volcarona etc), otherwise killing Heatran is going to be a nightmare against a smart opponent. Even if you do have Dugtrio, you need to have at least one other Ground/Fighting move on something in case you're up against Air Balloon Heatran or the rare Shed Shell set.

    Anywho...

    [​IMG]

    Cresselia @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 248 HP / 220 Def / 40 SAtk
    Bold Nature
    - Ice Beam
    - Psyshock
    - Reflect / Thunder Wave / Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Moonlight

    Despite being rather inept offensively, Cresselia is an excellent choice for sun offense teams because it can check a substantial proportion of the metagame, many of which are threatening to sun especially, such as Landorus, Terrakion, Dragonite, Garchomp, Latias/Latios etc. With its impressive defenses allowing to tank hits from almost everything that can't hit it super effectively, Cresselia can practically substitute for an entire defensive core, leaving you with more freedom with the rest of the team. It can even be supportive with Reflect or Thunder Wave. The former allows it to tank physical hits even better and give the rest of your team a brief Defense boost, which may help something like Venusaur or Volcarona sweep. The latter can similarly aid a teammate's sweep, and is useful if your team is threatened by fast sweepers, i.e. Latios/Gengar. Alternatively, you can even run HP [Fire] as a third attack to OHKO 248/0 Scizor, whom will otherwise be troublesome.

    This isn't the only viable set Cresselia can run though. The DualScreens Lunar Dance set trades longevity for pure support, and pairs up amazingly well with the common sun sweepers, not only aiding their initial setup but making a second sweep possible as well. CMCress is also rather overlooked, and whilst it may seem iffy at first, you'd be surprised how easy it is to sweep a team with it once certain threats have been removed.
  19. spooky96

    spooky96

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2012
    Messages:
    69
    Making any kind of sun team is hard, mainly because sun teams has five major short comings -
    1) Stealth Rock is everywhere, creating problems for Fire types. Especially Volcarona, others powerful Pokemon such as Arcanine would die way too quickly because of the Stealth Rock+ taking Flare Blitz's recoil. Infernape and Heatran however have not much problem here though.
    2) Most offensive sun Pokemons such as Venusaur and Volcarona will always make you feel desperate for one more move to give you additional coverage.
    3) Sun teams have extremely limited options. The most beneficial ability for sun teams is Chlorophyll, which only Grass types get, which arguably is one of the worst types offensively and you don't get to use STAB, Sun boosted Fire moves.
    4) or 3.5 rather, Grass is weak to Fire. Oops, the sun is up.
    5) Other weathers have a better chance of winning the weather war as you really have to predict each and every turn your enemy makes. This is why you would usually need to keep Dugtrio to take care of that Tyranitar.


    However, offensive sun teams does have it's own advantages. Firstly, we all know that Politoed never runs Rain Dance. So as soon as Ninetales out speeds Politoed which results Rain to prevail over Sun, Ninetales immediately can use Sunny Day to threaten it with Solar Beam, forcing the Politoed to switch out or die (which usually won't happen).

    So the kind of Nintales which I would suggest for a good offensive team would be:

    [​IMG]
    Ninetales (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Sunny Day
    - Fire Blast
    - SolarBeam
    - Hidden Power [Rock]

    This goes without saying, Fire Blast, a monstrous STAB move, putting a dent to anything that doesn't resist it. Solar Beam goes next, destroying Water types like Politoed, Gastrodon, Rotom-W, and Starmie. Hidden Power Rock is for keeping most Dragons like Salamance away, also taking care of Flying types such as Gyarados. Alternate options include Hidden Power Ground, which can take care of Heatran, but I wouldn't advise it, as Air Balloon is rather common. Hidden Power Ice can also be used to take care of Dragons and Landorus-T and Gliscor. Nasty Plot too can be used, OHKOing T-Tar and Politoed after +2 SPA. A modest nature too can be used to hit things even harder, but then it will lose the speed tie by many Pokemons which have base 100 speed who fully invest in speed.Important thing to remeber is- Ninetales is vulnerable and defenseless outside of Sun, so there is no room for error. You have to predict a T-Tar or Hippo switch in or else it can be a dead Ninetales or a switched out Ninetales >_> , giving you enemy a chance to set up, maybe Stealth Rock or a Rare DD by T-Tar.

    As far as the team members go, the basic things according to me would be:

    Ninetales + Chlorophyll User + Rapid Spinner + A Fire Type + Revenge Killer + Entry Hazards setter/Filler.

    Yeah I know I stated the obvious, but still. Finding a good Rapid Spinner can be hard, that's why I would suggest an offensive variant of Donphan:
    [​IMG]
    Donphan (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Rapid Spin
    - Earthquake
    - Stealth Rock
    - Stone Edge

    This set works just fine. Sometimes you can catch Tyranitar off guard and hit a massive chunk by an Adamant 252 Earthquake, nearly OHKOing it actually. Others perks are that it can set up and spin away at the same time, making life simple for sun teams. Sturdy allows it to never go waste unless you're facing Mold Breaker, but Haxorus is a Physical hitter anyways.

    Sorry if my suggestions are terrible, I've tried making sun teams but was never really good (NOT BAD BUT!).
  20. Neliel

    Neliel Sacred Sword

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2012
    Messages:
    565
    @spooky, dont ever use life orb ninetales. You are just handicapping yourself. The point of ninetales is to stay alive, and if you lose 10% of your life everytime you do a move, you will have less chance to win the weather war. Your evs spread isnt even optimal either, i've never liked non defensive ninetales, it cant even take an hydro pump without dying 9.9
  21. Onicon

    Onicon

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2011
    Messages:
    1,044
    Sun has always been very a fun playstyle - if just for Ninetales being the fastest weather inducer which gives you a bit more control beyond "hit-as-hard-as-possible".

    Anyways:

    [​IMG]
    Heatran @ Air Ballon
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
    - Fire Blast
    - Earth Power
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Stealth Rock / Toxic

    Honor the classics! Good "old" offensive Heatran from BW is still viable in BW2 even when a few new guys hampers its performance a bit. It preys on the fact that there are a relatively small number of Pokemon with Ground moves who can seriously hurt Heatran with their coverage, which forces them to stay to break that Air Balloon or to switch and to loose momentum. It is quite simple: As long as sun is up, Fire Blast them and watch them being OHKOed and 2HKOed as long as they are not Latias or pink blos'. The other moves usually only comes into play against opposing Heatrans (which you have an advantage over thanks to Air Balloon), when it need to down something in one shot like various dragons and when you do not have a weather advantage. Air Balloon allows you to come on Gliscor easily and to check various threats like dragons who rely on Earthquake as coverage, Landorus and Mamoswine.
    Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on the view) BW2 has brought Keldeo, who is bane to deal with, and Landorus-T, who is on the correct speed tier to outrun any Heatran as long as Landorus-T has 252 in speed. Heatran is still faster than the offensive pivot and and OHKOs it in sun but they carry U-Turn more often than not. Good that bulkier Latiases can deal with both of them in most cases and is not a bad option for a sun team itself, for it is a generally good answer to offensive rain.

    [​IMG]
    Heatran @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
    - Magma Storm
    - Earth Power
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Sunny Day / Substitute

    For those who do not necessarily want to give up a team slot for a trapper, you get this one on demand. Thanks to the extended duration trapping moves have received this generation and Magma Storm being the only one which actually does noticable damage, Heatran carves itself a niche as OUs active trapper. Magma Storm is as powerful as Fire Blast but it real strength is the trapping and the residual damage. Both Tyranitars and especially Politoed are reasonable switch-ins and they never see it coming before Magma Storm hits them, Sunny Day reverses the weather momentum and the residual damage stack up.
    Other options are SolarBeam instead of Earth Power, strong against both kinds of major weather inducer but rather lacking when you cannot keep up sun.
  22. spooky96

    spooky96

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2012
    Messages:
    69
    @Neliel
    I thought that too, I was actually thinking of putting on Leftovers and some HP EVs actually. But then I thought since we're talking about Offensive Rain Teams, I thought running an Offensive variant, I actually never put Life Orb on my Ninetales, well I've only made 2 teams.

    However Life Orb is still possible if you're good at predicting, pairing that set of Ninetales with Dugtrio can help to win the weather war against T-Tar.

    Nevertheless, I still agree with what you say, Life Orb Ninetales isn't a very good idea.
  23. Cinco Diablo

    Cinco Diablo

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,280
    The hard part of Sun is keeping it up, yes you have Ninetales with Sunny Day, but you really need a backup to keep your weather up and even beat oppposing weather inducers, most notably, Politoed. So here's an excellent set that most Sun teams can use. Ladies and Gentemen, meet Magma Storm Heatran.

    [​IMG]
    Heatran @ Air Balloon / Chople Berry / Life Orb
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Magma Storm
    - Sunny Day
    - Solarbeam
    - Earth Power / Hidden Power [Ice]

    Heatran is a staple on every one of my Sun teams, and this set is why I use it so much. With this set, Heatran can lure in opposing Weather inducers, most notably Politoed and Tyranitar, then use it's excellent signature move, Magma Storm, to trap it on the field, and then use Sunny Day to change the weather all together and finally hit Politoed and Tyranitar with Solarbeam and Earth Power, respectively. This is a simple and straightforward EV spread, with a 4 HP . 252 SpA / 252 Speed set, with the Max Special Attack and Max Speed being obvious. An alternative EV spread of 56 HP / 252 SpA / 200 Spe can be used here if Heatran is using HP Ice. The rise in bulk is minimal, but it can feign a defensive set with this EV spread. Now, the choice of Item is up to the user here. Most people particularly like to use Air Balloon, since this is a Sun team, as it prevents Heatran from getting trapped by opposing Dugtrio and prevents it from getting KO'd by opposing Gliscor with Earthquake. Chople Berry is a real interesting option here, as it allows Heatran to take on Tyranitar more easily, especially the Banded sets and allows it to tank Brelooms Mach Punches. Finally, Life Orb is an option for abusing Heatrans raw power in sun, and allowing it to KO Standard Tyranitar with a Solarbeam after Sunny Day, a round of Stealth Rock and it's being trapped due to Magma Storm.​
  24. Usatoday

    Usatoday

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2012
    Messages:
    159
    Ah the classic offensive sun play style of sun offensive however I believe that speed is not always everything so one should keep in mind of that when reading my sets as it will help explain why I am using these sets, so how about a slower version of sun that is just as deadly trick sun :].
    [​IMG]
    Heatran @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Flash Fire
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SAtk
    Quiet Nature
    IVs: 30 Atk / 30 Def / 0 Spd
    - Fire Blast
    - Earth Power
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Eruption
    [​IMG]
    Slowking @ Leftovers
    Trait: Regenerator
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 216 HP / 184 Def / 108 SDef
    Relaxed Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Trick Room
    - Toxic / Dragon Tail
    - Ice Beam
    - Psyshock
    [​IMG]
    Shiftry @ Life Orb
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Lonely Nature
    - Sucker Punch
    - Nature Power
    - Leaf Storm
    - Low Kick


  25. askjeevs

    askjeevs

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2010
    Messages:
    42
    here's a rather nice mon that works great as a Chloro sweeper.

    [​IMG]
    Victreebel @ Life Orb
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 120 Atk / 136 SpA / 252 Spe
    Naive Nature
    - Leaf Blade
    - Weather Ball
    - Growth
    - Hidden Power Ice / Sludge Bomb

    Mix Victreebel can be an absolute menace, thanks to having Weather Ball at it's disposal. Gaining a 105 attack fire move, without having to run HP Fire is great, as it allows Victreebel to seek further coverage by running HP Ice alongside it, surprising any Dragons that would try to switch in. Victreebel can actually OHKO unboosted Latias with Sludge Bomb, but I find HP Ice generally has better coverage. Max Speed and naive nature allow Victreebel to not only outpace Choice Scarf Terrakion but +2 Adamant Dragonite. It's important to note however that Choice Scarf Latios still outspeeds you.
    While Victreebel is an offensive menace, it's really not going to be taking any hits soon. For example CB Scizor manages to OHKO Scizor outright with Bullet Punch, as long as it can switch in safely. Another massive threat is Heatran, as Victreebel cannot really do anything to Heatran. As such good teammates for Victreebel can include Dugtrio (who can also provide Rocks), as well as Victini (banded Brick Break 2hKO's Heatran)
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