Other OU Pokemon of the Week V2 Week 6:Lucario

[I AM THE JAMAICAN BOBSLED TEAM]

approved by Subject 18
(art goes here)

Welcome to OU Pokemon of the Week! In this thread, I will choose a Pokemon to discuss weekly and you all discuss it! What kind of sets it can run, what teams it fits on, and everything else. This weeks Pokemon is...



Jirachi!

Jirachi is an incredible pokemon for balanced/stall/semistall and even some bulky offense teams. Why? Because of its ability to stop threats such as Greninja, Lati@s, Mega Gardevoir, and Keldeo. It has access to Wish, Stealth Rock, Iron Head, and even Healing Wish. Jirachi is certainly a Pokemon worth considering for your balance/stall/semistall. Here is the set I(and probably all of you) have been running:
Jirachi @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 220 SpD / 36 Spe
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Wish
- Iron Head
- Protect
Stealth Rock is important, can pass wishes, and hax shit to death.

Rules:
-Stay on topic to the Pokemon being discussed. Don't post a Slowbro set if we're discussing Thundurus.
-Don't come here to bash a Pokemon. If we're discussing Mega Heracross and you play stall please keep the thread free of your rage.
-Don't let the thread die

Have fun!​

 

[NeverFirst]

Personally I think Garchomp's role this gen is mainly support. It can fit in moves like Stealth rocks and still be decently threatening with its remaining 3 slots. Sash spam on Garchomp can still be pretty threatening as chomp can be saved for later. Rocky helm variants are pretty useful for wearing down the opponent's team.

The thing with garchomp is that 102 base speed just doesn't seem to be enough for the current meta anymore, with numerous threats that outspeed and deal heavy damage to it. But while the effectiveness of garchomp as a sole sweeper may have fallen, teams generally don't prepare for purely offensive variants of garchomp, simply because there are numerous ways to deal with it, such as revenge killing or using bulky mons to status (burn) it. This reminded me of a set that I saw a few months ago:

I call this a "status lure". Basic idea is it to pair it with a sweeper than hates status (mega mawile *-*) and use a double anti status Lum + Substitute to let you play incredibly aggressively against status users, often forcing the opp to sack their status user.

Garchomp @ Lum Berry
Nature: Jolly
Evs: 252 spe / 252 atk
Ability: Rough Skin
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Outrage
- Substitute

With this set you switch in ON will o wisp, then bait them to use it again, while you sub. At that point, you can achieve +2 cleanly, and then force your opponent to have something die to the mighty Garchomp on the switch as it basically 2HKOs everything, or sack their will o wisp user, both are favorable. Lum also protects from stray scald and lava plume burns for users of both that move and will o wisp, such as Jellicent, or Heatran.

Couldn't put it better myself. With sub you pretty much mitigate the speed/rk issues. You also get 2 setup turns to get sub AND SD up if the opponent switches. Either way, you get rid of the annoying status user or destroy the opponent's defensive switch in, allowing an ally to sweep more easily, or even just outright sweep with Garchomp itself. Those peasants need to be reminded of why garchomp was banned before, so yeah I think this set is pretty awesome.

(This was where I first saw the set so plz don't bash me if I credit the wrong person)

 

[Rosen]

Scarfchomp is best chomp. Mmmmmmmmmm dat coverage. Also good with shit like mega ttar if you need a last ditch speedyass rocks setter before you tryna setup n sweep.

 

[trc]

The original project had the aim of highlighting underused Pokemon (below OU usage in 1825 stats), and to try and get them to gain popularity, everyone knows what Garchomp does and there isn't much to discuss. If you talked about Pokemon like Starmie, Jirachi, Celebi, or Magnezone, you'd garner better discussion.

 

[Rosen]

Well it's Saturday so how bout we start afresh sunday eh

And cha starmie is the tits but there are still nonbelievers out there so we should do that

 

[Sun King]

Something I'm surprised I haven't seen much more of is Wallbreaker Mega Garchomp. This thing used to be one of the Achilles' Heels of Stall, and teams have pretty much stopped preparing for it since nobody uses it. That doesn't mean, however, that it isn't still good at what it does. It will literally rip apart anything slower than it.

 

[Lil YoshiXD]

Something I'm surprised I haven't seen much more of is Wallbreaker Mega Garchomp. This thing used to be one of the Achilles' Heels of Stall, and teams have pretty much stopped preparing for it since nobody uses it. That doesn't mean, however, that it isn't still good at what it does. It will literally rip apart anything slower than it.

kind of bad vs offense tho. also needs sand support

 

[Sun King]

Except he's bulky af and hits like a truck (rhyme not intended). He'd actually work pretty well on bulky offense. If you get him in free, I personally guarantee something will die--be it against stall, offense, or balanced.

 

[I AM THE JAMAICAN BOBSLED TEAM]

im gonna try something new itt

every week, before friday(i change the OP every time on friday) i'll have a vote for the next potw(inspired from the theorymon thread) pm me your vote

so this is the first weeks vote:

mienshao
jirachi
celebi
goodra
porygon2
zygarde
haxorus
starmie

just PM me your vote

also to clarify, if there's a tie, i'll use an RNG to decide the pokemon of the week

my vote goes to celebi

 

[Clone]

kind of bad vs offense tho. also needs sand support

I've stated this multiple times. As an avid user of Mega Garchomp, he does not need sand support. It is most definitely appreciated, but saying that he needs it is simply an uninformed statement. Yes, I am aware that megachomps ability to break walls greatly improves when sand is up. There's no argument there. But saying that he can't wallbreak without sand is simply not true. I'm not gonna bother posting calcs. You can do them yourself. But just know that things like Ferro, Skarm, Quag, Slowbro, Amoonguss, non SpDef Gliscor (and even then there's a chance to 2HKO. It's just really small), and Chansey who have taken just 12% prior damage all die to chomp with or without sand. Draco and Fire Blast don't even gaf about sand either lol. Quake is still hella strong coming off of a 400+ attack, and edge is no pushover either.

There's also a new SD set that's popping up that destroys all switch ins bar like Skarm (which is lured by fire blast if it's that much of an issue). It works a lot like SD Hera in that there's really no safe switch ins and that their coverage options are basically on par with each other. And they're both hella bulky and can take neutral hits easily. Chomp may be slightly less powerful, but he's also faster and can outpace a few key threats, especially speed creepers.

 

[Lil YoshiXD]

I've stated this multiple times. As an avid user of Mega Garchomp, he does not need sand support. It is most definitely appreciated, but saying that he needs it is simply an uninformed statement. Yes, I am aware that megachomps ability to break walls greatly improves when sand is up. There's no argument there. But saying that he can't wallbreak without sand is simply not true. I'm not gonna bother posting calcs. You can do them yourself. But just know that things like Ferro, Skarm, Quag, Slowbro, Amoonguss, non SpDef Gliscor (and even then there's a chance to 2HKO. It's just really small), and Chansey who have taken just 12% prior damage all die to chomp with or without sand. Draco and Fire Blast don't even gaf about sand either lol. Quake is still hella strong coming off of a 400+ attack, and edge is no pushover either.

There's also a new SD set that's popping up that destroys all switch ins bar like Skarm (which is lured by fire blast if it's that much of an issue). It works a lot like SD Hera in that there's really no safe switch ins and that their coverage options are basically on par with each other. And they're both hella bulky and can take neutral hits easily. Chomp may be slightly less powerful, but he's also faster and can outpace a few key threats, especially speed creepers.

It can get all those kos with LO also tho...

 

[dinotrek27]

It can get all those kos with LO also tho...

But you lose bulk and longevity in the process which is what sets Megachomp apart from Regular Garchomp... Although I agree in general regular Garchomp fares better against offensive team's due to its higher speed.

 

[Bluwing]

im gonna try something new itt

every week, before friday(i change the OP every time on friday) i'll have a vote for the next potw(inspired from the theorymon thread) pm me your vote

so this is the first weeks vote:

mienshao
jirachi
celebi
goodra
porygon2
zygarde
haxorus
starmie

just PM me your vote

also to clarify, if there's a tie, i'll use an RNG to decide the pokemon of the week

my vote goes to celebi

Get Weavile in there too, it's better than any pokemon listed there and even more underused.

 

[Sun King]

But you lose bulk and longevity in the process which is what sets Megachomp apart from Regular Garchomp... Although I agree in general regular Garchomp fares better against offensive team's due to its higher speed.

This. I heartily agree that base-form Chomp is better vs. offense, but the minute a team with a semblance of bulk/a decent defensive core comes around, the returns diminish. Life Orb sets are so easy to wear down, it's absurd. At the same time, they don't take the hits that Mega Garchomp does. I'm not trying to say that Mega Chomp is better overall than regular Chomp; what I'm saying is that against stall/defensive teams, he outperforms regular Garchomp because of its staying power. Probably the most important thing to consider in beating stall is longevity--something Mega Garchomp does much better.

 

[Lil YoshiXD]

This. I heartily agree that base-form Chomp is better vs. offense, but the minute a team with a semblance of bulk/a decent defensive core comes around, the returns diminish. Life Orb sets are so easy to wear down, it's absurd. At the same time, they don't take the hits that Mega Garchomp does. I'm not trying to say that Mega Chomp is better overall than regular Chomp; what I'm saying is that against stall/defensive teams, he outperforms regular Garchomp because of its staying power. Probably the most important thing to consider in beating stall is longevity--something Mega Garchomp does much better.

yet i feel other megas/pokes beat stall better then it does.

 

[Sun King]

yet i feel other megas/pokes beat stall better then it does.

Maybe. But that doesn't mean Mega Garchomp is in any way ineffective against it. Also, I would argue that due to the "media coverage" those threats have received in light of recent suspects, stall teams are far less prepared for Chomp. Stall teams are primarily concerned with covering Medicham, Gardevoir, and trying to contain Heracross; in covering those three, it's easy to forget how potent Mega Garchomp is; he often falls through the cracks. Garchomp also has significantly better typing and bulk than any of the major wall breaking megas.

I genuinely believe he is underrated and underrepresented in this metagame.

 

[Lil YoshiXD]

Maybe. But that doesn't mean Mega Garchomp is in any way ineffective against it. Also, I would argue that due to the "media coverage" those threats have received in light of recent suspects, stall teams are far less prepared for Chomp. Stall teams are primarily concerned with covering Medicham, Gardevoir, and trying to contain Heracross; in covering those three, it's easy to forget how potent Mega Garchomp is; he often falls through the cracks. Garchomp also has significantly better typing and bulk than any of the major wall breaking megas.

I genuinely believe he is underrated and underrepresented in this metagame.

which set do you use as unless you run outrage or SD Chansey walls you? If you chose to run them tho, quag or skarm can wall you easier. (all this is assuming no sand of course).

Cresselia also becoming much more common. Mew can also outspeed and burn and tank a hit.

 

[Clone]

It can get all those kos with LO also tho...

252 SpA Mega Garchomp Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 201-237 (58.9 - 69.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4+ Atk Mega Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 189-223 (55.4 - 65.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

4 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 175-208 (51.3 - 60.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Garchomp Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 199-235 (58.3 - 68.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Megachomp hits harder and has more bulk, and doesnt lose it while using attacks. also for shits and gigs ill post sand calcs since sand is fking everywhere:

4+ Atk Sand Force Mega Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew in Sand: 246-289 (72.1 - 84.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage

Megachomp is a much better wallbreaker than LO Chomp is and honestly is pretty on par with the other wallbreaker Megas, especially if he can steal sand from opposing teams.

 

[Lil YoshiXD]

252 SpA Mega Garchomp Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 201-237 (58.9 - 69.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4+ Atk Mega Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 189-223 (55.4 - 65.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

4 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 175-208 (51.3 - 60.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Garchomp Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 199-235 (58.3 - 68.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Megachomp hits harder and has more bulk, and doesnt lose it while using attacks. also for shits and gigs ill post sand calcs since sand is fking everywhere:

4+ Atk Sand Force Mega Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew in Sand: 246-289 (72.1 - 84.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage

Megachomp is a much better wallbreaker than LO Chomp is and honestly is pretty on par with the other wallbreaker Megas, especially if he can steal sand from opposing teams.

draco damage pretty negliable. Also I always can use adamant LO chomp so
4+ Atk Life Orb Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Manaphy: 195-230 (57.1 - 67.4%)

Its staying power is much better, but still not great. Also due to its lower speed much worse vs offense (duh) Lots of things it would like to ohko it can't.
also can't hit nearly as hard as other megas.

252+ Atk Mega Heracross Pin Missile (5 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Manaphy: 290-350 (85 - 102.6%)
232+ SpA Pixilate Mega Gardevoir Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Manaphy: 249-294 (73 - 86.2%)
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Manaphy: 354-417 (103.8 - 122.2%)

 

[I AM THE JAMAICAN BOBSLED TEAM]

ok folks, we only got 2 votes, it was a tie between celebi and jirachi

this weeks pokemon will be jirachi

gonna be editing the OP, this is just a bump for the thread

 

[BONGMASTER420]

Is ScarfRachi even relevant anymore? I only played against it in the beginning of this gen and even then it was a rare site.

 

[I AM THE JAMAICAN BOBSLED TEAM]

Is ScarfRachi even relevant anymore? I only played against it in the beginning of this gen and even then it was a rare site.

scarf rachi still exists, but it takes on more of a support role(mainly speedy healing wish)

 

[escarlata]

Jirachi is pretty amazing now that 'slash and Mawile are gone. Jirachi is really great on stall for checking all of the 3 stallbreakers, which is pretty nifty. What I really appreciate about Jirachi is that it is one of the best Pokemons for spreading paralysis, which is great to support slower wallbreakers like Diggersby, Crawdaunt etc, and makes Heracross and Gardevoir really scary. Heck, even defensive Sylveon becomes a monster when everything gets paralysed. While I rarely play stall, the set which I run on one of my best stall team involves this set.
Jirachi @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 224 SpD / 32 Spe
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Wish
- Iron Head
- Thunder Wave

Stealth Rock with TWave is a pretty amazing combo. No hazard remover minus Zapdos and Excadril likes to take a Thunder Wave to the face, and the have it set up right back at them. Protect is not always needed in stall if there is another Wish passer around.
and for the last time:
Can people stop running 36 Spe on Jirachi? And any base 100 defensive mons for that matter? 32 outspeeds Jolly 252 TTar. All 36 helps to do is to outspeed other defensive base 100 that runs 32 to speed creep Ttar. They only run 36 if they are running HP Fire or something.

Another really fun set I have been using on balance is the lure set:

This has been a pretty fun lure which I have been using on Jirachi on bulky offense so that Landorus does not rip through the team.
Jirachi @ Shuca Berry or any other type resist berry.
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 148 HP / 252 Atk / 108 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Iron Head
- Drain Punch / Fire Punch / U-turn / ZHB
- Ice Punch / Fire Punch / U-turn / ZHB
- Healing Wish

Type Resist Berry offers no recovery or whatsoever so it can easily bluff a Scarf set very easily. When 'locked' into the 'wrong moves', it easily attracts a lot of Pokemon to come in and set up on it or attack it. Ice Punch is for DDNite if it tries to set up on Drain Punch -> Ice Punch OHKO after Multiscale is broken by Drain Punch, for example, while Band or +1 EQ does not OHKO with Shuca. Drain Punch deals with Bisharp, who almost never uses Sucker Punch on Rachi, and even without Colbur Berry, Rachi survives and heals a good amount back with Drain Punch. With Shuca, Rachi makes an excellent lure for Lando-I, who also gets OHKOed by Ice Punch and failing to OHKO Rachi. Basically this Rachi can be customised to lure and beat many things that likes to come in on it, so there's that. Healing Wish is just a great move that allows you to bring something to full health after Rachi accomplishes her job with the luring and killing.

 

[I AM THE JAMAICAN BOBSLED TEAM]

it explicitly states in the rules don't let the thread die

i am disappointed in all of you

but anyways, for some actual discussion, apparently subtoxic jirachi has been getting some attention lately. apparently, the set is sub/tox/iron head/fire punch w/ a jolly nature and basic EV spread

discuss

 

[Sun King]

So maybe I'm talking out my ass a little bit here, but Jirachi has a lot working against him this generation. Thanks to the new Steel nerf, the only thing his Steel-typing mitigates is Psychic's Bug-type weakness. In a generation filled with powerful Fire moves, Knock Off coverage, ExcaTar offense and Bisharps, Jirachi really looks like it has a hard time fitting in. Additionally, base 100 Speed is pretty run-of-the-mill in XY OU. That said, should you for some reason not have anything faster or capable of taking hits from 'Rachi, sure--you might find yourself at the mercy of flinch hax.

My biggest two issues with Jirachi this generation are…

1.) Its complete lack of offensive presence this gen (comparatively)
2.) Its poor typing combined with a complete lack of recovery (Wish+Protect wastes support moveslots)

Looking past those problems, I would probably delegate Jirachi to a support role on my team. Something along the lines of setting up SR, spreading paralysis, Wish passing, and then getting a crucial Healing Wish off to a teammate. There are plenty of things that perform SubToxic better--a job pretty much necessitating some form of recovery (i.e. Zapdos, Gliscor, hell--even Moltres SubToxics better than Jirachi). Keeping that in mind, I would not be using a Jolly nature or any offensive investment on my Jirachi--I would probably use a set that maximizes its ability to perform its supporting duties (so I would turn it into a specially-based tank, basically).

TL;DR Jirachi falls short this gen, but it has a small niche running the Wildcat supporting its team. Hopefully I helped stimulate some discussion on an otherwise shitty mon.