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OU Rain with Defensive Focus (BW2)

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by krelly, Jun 25, 2013.

  1. krelly

    krelly

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2013
    Messages:
    2
    Hey, this is my first Pokemon game since ADV era. I've always enjoyed playing with a more defensive focus and after reading up on the changes in the last two generations it looks like its much more of a challenge now. It also appears that a Rain weather team seems the best way to go for playing defense. It's not performing as well as I'd hoped however. What I've got is:

    Politoed w/ Choice Specs
    Ability: Drizzle
    Nature: Modest (+SpA, -Atk)
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Sp
    - Hydro Pump
    - Ice Beam
    - Focus Blast
    - Perish Song

    I much prefer the defensive setup over Choice Specs, but I found it too redundant with Vaporeon around. Perish Song helps against the boosters, but always leaves me screwed if they change weather.

    Vaporeon w/ Leftovers
    Ability: Hydration
    Nature: Bold (+Def, -Atk)
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
    - Scald
    - Toxic
    - Wish
    - Rest

    I realize it adds a lot of redundancy by having the same typing as Politoed but I've always had a soft spot for Vappy. This is a fairly standard setup to handle most of the physical threats. Even though they're tricky, I enjoy the wish mechanics and keeping the rest of the team up and fighting. I've been contemplating switching Toxic for Roar as I don't seem to get that much mileage out of Toxic Spikes with the solo Dragon Tail on Dragonite. But it seems risky if they switch in a strong Electric user.

    Dragonite w/ Leftovers
    Ability: Multiscale
    Nature: Calm (+SpD, -Atk)
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
    - Hurricane
    - Thunder
    - Dragon Tail
    - Roost

    Looks to be the standard setup for Rain teams. Acts as very solid SpD tank with respectable offense. I find that if Dragonite goes down, I nearly always do as well.

    Hydreigon w/ Choice Specs
    Ability: Levitate
    Nature: Modest (+SpA, -Atk)
    EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 HP
    - Draco Meteor
    - Earth Power
    - Surf
    - U-Turn

    I realize this isn't the optimal choice and doesn't really add a lot to the Rain synergy. I just think he kinda looks cool ;). He adds Ice weakness with Dragonite, which I'm finding is a big problem. But Hydreigon is there to provide some much needed SpA offense, especially if Dragonite goes down. Choice Scarf looks like it might be preferable to give me a fast attacker which I sorely lack. I think this setup covers a lot of areas and can switch in quite a few of the slower Pokemon.

    Tentacruel w/ Black Sludge
    Ability: Rain Dish
    Nature: Bold (+Def, -Atk)
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
    - Scald
    - Toxic Spikes
    - Rapid Spin
    - Protect

    Solid spiker/spinner. Solid Def (with Scald) and great SpD with good recovery with Rain Dish + Black Sludge is awesome. Problem is it adds a 3rd Electric weakness by running both Vaporeon and Politoed. And Jellicent destroys me.

    Scizor w/ Choice Band
    Ability: Technician
    Nature: Adamant (+Atk, -SpA)
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
    - U-Turn
    - Bullet Punch
    - Superpower
    - Pursuit

    Covers a lot of the counters to Rain core and has great type synergy with the rest of the group. Also brings a much needed physical attacker and destroys the Grass types that I have trouble with on Sun teams (he also goes down fast on sun teams but is likely a OHKO regardless of Sun with Fire attacks). He's a little slow though, which seems to be a running theme.

    Anyways, I've thought about trying a different spinner/spiker. Tentacruel seems to be a weak spot of the team. Other options are:

    Forretress w/ Leftovers
    Ability: Sturdy
    Nature: Relaxed (+Def, -Spe)
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
    - Volt Switch
    - Gyro Ball
    - Toxic Spikes
    - Rapid Spin

    Advantages over Tentacruel are the great typing synergy with the other 4 members so far. Covers a grass weakness that Vaporeon and Politoed have, though might be too much with Dragonite and Hydreigon already covering those. But it gives Ice and Dragon coverage that Dragonite and Hydreigon sorely lack. Only weakness is Fire and low SpD (and Spe) which I'm not even sure Rain helps all that much. Also has a lot more physical def over Tentacruel. But it compounds my already slow Pokemon by losing out on Tentacruel's speed although Volt Switch gives it a nice out.

    Ferrothron w/ Leftovers
    Ability: Sturdy
    Nature: Relaxed (+Def, -Spe)
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Def
    - Power Whip
    - Thunder Wave
    - Spikes
    - Leech Seed

    He lacks spinning which could be a problem with trying to Stealth Rock for Dragonite and switching Hydreigon around with Draco Meteor and U-Turn. But he gives even better type advantages over Forretress. Loses the Ice for a probably more valuable combination of water and electric strengths which coupled with Power Whip and Leech Seed will help immensely against opposing Rain teams. Also gives great Def and great SpD, which I end up choosing one over the other with the other two spikers. Thunder Wave is useful to slow down speedy sweepers which is a weakness I'm seeing with the team so far. Is all that worth giving up Rapid Spin for?

    I'd need to remove Scizor if I ran either of these two spikers as there is just too much overlap. I'm thinking about:

    Toxicroak - Doesn't really add another overlapping weakness (plus Psychic weakness can be covered Hydreigon and the possible two Steel spikers). Dry Skin + Drain Punch + Substitute + Bulk Up looks like a fearsome combination. Could help against other boosters. Is rather slow however.

    Jirachi - Provides valuable grass, ice, dragon coverage. Also would be able to out-Calm Mind others looking to do the same? Solid speed.

    Raikou/Jolteon - gives som emuch needed speed to the team while cover electric weaknesses with Volt Absorb.

    Jellicent - Spinblocking and being able to handle other stalling teams with Taunt. Decent offense with Scald+Rain. Don't run across a lot of other stall teams, but when I do, it's a problem.

    Gliscor - Odd choice for rain team. Completely nullifies electric which is useful and Sandstorm teams. Brings good def and solid physical offense (which is lacking) and doesn't bring additional Grass weakness that
    Swampert and Seismitoad would bring (tho it does add some problematic Ice). Would be destroyed by an opposing Rain team however.

    Thoughts?

    I see some general weaknesses so far. First, the team is incredibly slow. I'm not really sure how change that without sacrificing too much bulk. Maybe Thundurus/Tornadus and their alternate incarnations over Hydreigon? I dunno, it seems a little generic.

    Also, it seems weak to other Rain teams (and other weather teams in general). Quite a few of the team have Elec and Ice weaknesses (not uncommon to find on other Rain teams with Jolteon or Raikou as their offense). Also another Rain Dance team with a Swift Swimmer (specifically Kingdra) is a huge issue (I think Ferrothorn would help). I think if I gear Politoed to be more offensive it helps against Sun/Sandstorm teams (remove Perish Song, but not sure what to replace with). A second method of bringing in Rain would be very adventageous to handle Sun. I'm just not sure who to throw it on.

    Calm Mind boosters and speedy Swords Dancers always give me fits. Maybe run Roar on Vaporeon? I haven't run across them yet, but I think Celebi and Alakazam are also capable of having a potent combination of Ice/Electric/Fire which would single handedly destroy me. I'm not sure how to solve this. Any suggestions?

    Maybe I'm running too much offense to truly get the value from Toxic Spikes and should try something else?
  2. moonbase

    moonbase

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2012
    Messages:
    261
    You have 8 pokemon :/
    kokoloko likes this.
  3. krelly

    krelly

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2013
    Messages:
    2
    There's 6. Sorry for the confusion. Politoed, Vaporeon, Dragonite, Hydreigon, Tentacruel and Scizor. Forretress and Ferrothorn are some alternates I'm thinking about removing Tentacruel for.
  4. Plus

    Plus 10 in.
    is a Tutoris an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris an Artist Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    1,385
    Hello! Welcome back to the world of Pokemon -- a lot of things sure have changed, haven't they?

    Defensive Rain is a very potent strategy, but you don't always need blatantly obvious rain abusers to make it work. Simply the added power of a Scald or the lowered power of fire moves is enough to make a stall-based rain team work; it doesn't always have to have a Rain Dish Tentacruel or a Hydration Vaporeon to make it work. Don't get me wrong -- those are viable choices for a Rain Stall team, but I would not consider them staples. It seems to me that you have pointed out your main flaw already -- which is the glaring lack of speed on this team. Even though you have a defensive team, this metagame demands speed -- arguably moreso than any other generation to date.

    Jellicent is a very big threat to your team; really, only your two dragons can touch it. Having Toxic Spikes on your Tentacruel is nice for scaring away Jellicent, but considering you lack a spin blocker and the 100% possibility that you get a layer of Toxic Spikes up before Jellicent switches in, I wouldn't bet on it. Being that your team is rather slow, SD Garchomp also poses a large threat as none of your team members can outspeed it, and you'd have to rely on walling it and getting a Scizor BP to save yourself in that scenario. Thundurus-T seems to be a problem too -- it can take advantage of the rain and Thunderspam your team to oblivion if you're not careful.

    I would definitely consider making your defensive core more varied. At a glance, I can see that you lack SR, which is extremely important in weakening many offensive threats down. I'd suggest you run a combination of Rotom-W and Jirachi over Vaporeon and Hydreigon. A scarfed Rotom-W in particular can abuse rain via Hydro Pump and Thunder, both of which are STABbed and extremely powerful. This will help you deal with faster threats: Terrakion, Salamence, Garchomp, Landorus, Gengar, Starmie,+1 DD Gyarados and Dragonite just to name a few. This, coupled with a Specially defensive Jirachi will provide a much needed backbone to your team while still providing the wishpassing you seem to love. What's nice about Jirachi as well is that it provides Paralysis support, something which is great for a primarily slow team. You can even run Thunder on this because you are using Rain, which has 60% paralysis chance, and you dont have to worry as much about Skarmory setting up spikes on you. If you think Thundurus is still a problem, run Body Slam instead. Lastly, Jirachi can set up Rocks, and you need rocks on this team -- it's the most important entry hazard of all. With this, you have a core of Rotom-W, Jirachi, and Tentacruel. Jirachi helps keep Tentacruel healthy thanks to Wish passing, Jirachi tanks any threats from psychics like Reuniclus or Alakazam, Tentacruel takes hits from Fire moves like a champ, and Rotom-w is there to provide a Ground immune and alleviates your speed problem, and is helped by Wishpassing as well.

    Without Vaporeon, you can use your defensive Politoed. I like using Scald/Protect/Toxic/Perish Song; it provides the most switch outs and helps the entry hazards going, and also threatens Jellicent switch-ins with Toxic. An optional suggestion that you've already considered would be to change Scizor for Ferrothorn, which would help tremendously in your team's goal in forcing switches out and wearing your opponent down. However, I don't want to change the makeup of your team too much as I've already suggested two pokemon changes, and Scizor doesn't necessarily have to go if you don't want it to go.

    With these changes, you now have all three entry hazards, a response to speedy pokemon, and an improved core that works exceptionally well in the rain. A spinblocker could be nice, and Jellicent doesn't go terribly bad with this team, but speed seems to be a very pressing issue for this team, and isn't always needed as long as you have the necessary tools to pressure spinners (which you do!)

    Here are my proposed suggestions:

    Politoed @ Leftovers
    Bold 252 hp/248def/8 spe
    Scald/Protect/Toxic/Perish Song

    Rotom-w@ Choice Scarf (over Hydreigon)
    Timid 252 Satk/252 Spe/4 HP
    Thunder/Hydro Pump/HP Ice/ Volt Switch

    Jirachi@ Lefties (over Vappy)
    Sassy 252 hp/252 sdef/4 atk
    Thunder/Stealth Rock/Wish/Iron Head

    Again, welcome to 5th gen! Hope you have success with your team! =)
  5. HSA ♥

    HSA ♥ I am the God of the new world.

    Joined:
    May 24, 2009
    Messages:
    966
    Hey brah you should defs drop that Scizor for a scarf Keldeo. You'll be doing some mad revenge killing with the double boost you got to the STAB, and Keldeo has that rediculous coverage. You're team will also benefit from the strong offensive presence and check to a lot of boosting sweepers!

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