1. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.
  2. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!

OU Stats - March 2013

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by NixHex, Apr 3, 2013.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Lord of Bays

    Lord of Bays

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2010
    Messages:
    1,105
    @ZandgaiaX Gastrodon actually gets worked over by Secret Sword, which is a solid 3HKO on the Scarf set. Of course, if you ran a physically defensive set you are only 3HKOd by the SPECS set, while 0 Atk Earthquake has a good chance of 3HKOing back, so the SubCM set couldn't completely work you over.

    Well shit, I know who I've got to counter Keldeo now.
  2. NixHex

    NixHex A new vice president erryonce in a while to keep me busy
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2009
    Messages:
    2,584
    Looks like the moveset links for every tier in March are gone. I omitted it from the op, thanks.
  3. klvkboom

    klvkboom

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2013
    Messages:
    90
    Just wondering, but will the moveset stats be posted somewhere else? as you did mention that the pastebin link was broken.
  4. Magcargo 2

    Magcargo 2
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2013
    Messages:
    1,282
    | 99 | Electivire | 0.88614% | 24599 | 1.935% | 19735 | 1.931% |
    | 100 | Whimsicott | 0.87540% | 13809 | 1.086% | 11446 | 1.120% |
    | 101 | Ambipom | 0.86131% | 16937 | 1.332% | 14751 | 1.443% |

    | 108 | Kyurem | 0.74379% | 8260 | 0.650% | 6138 | 0.601% |
    This is just laughable. 3 of the BIGGEST failures in their respective tiers are getting more usage than kyurem-c.
    Can someone explain this?
  5. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winner

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2012
    Messages:
    2,855
    yeah i'll explain it, the reason you're seeing such low kyurem usage is because kyurem-b is better than it in almost every single way...aside from the 10 extra base spa and pressure that kyurem has over kyu-b it's really no contest, kyu-b gets a huge offensive buff for its stats and a boost in defense too, which is nice for surviving miscellaneous priority attacks where kyurem wouldn't. in addition, kyu-b boasts teravolt, an ability that lets it break through stuff like sturdy and levitate which gives it an edge in certain scenarios. the main draw of course is kyu-b's massive offensive prowess, regular kyurem simply can't match up with stab outrage off 170 base attack...i mean what's the reason to use kyurem right now? everyone and their mother has spdef jirachi on their team and kyu-b's sheer destructive wallbreaking power is hard to pass up in comparison to...what? kyurem's mediocre base 130 draco meteor? we have latios you know. this was a rushed and poorly worded explanation but i hope i got the point across

    whimsicott sucks
  6. RabidChipmunk

    RabidChipmunk

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2012
    Messages:
    497
    If I can get psychological here for a second, the reason Electivire and Whimsicott see such usage is just people trolling the ladder. No one trolls the ladder with Kyurem because Kyurem actually has a very (very, very, very, very) small niche in OU. But looking at what Lavos said...

    Basically this, but I don't know if I'd even say "almost every way." Seriously, if you're using Kyurem, STOP, change it to Kyurem-B, and never look back. Unless Pressure is so important to you that you absolutely must sacrifice 40 base Attack and better defense, just use Kyurem-B.
  7. ZandgaiaX

    ZandgaiaX

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2009
    Messages:
    564
    Well, the closest thing of a counter to Keldeo anyway. Not to mention having reliable recovery, the only thing that Keldeo can use to beat Gastrodon is spamming Secret Sword for the crit or having HP grass but this goes into what I myself like to call: 'HP-bug Syndrome' i.e. running a single move for a single pokémon.

    (Not to mention, Gastrodon and Celebi make an ok combo on their own)

    Edit: btw if you run special-wall Gastrodon, I'd say you're doing it wrong.
  8. Spirit

    Spirit
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2013
    Messages:
    1,032
    This is bullshit. The reason you use Kyurem over B is for SubRoost, which is an amazing set and defeats rain teams and sand stall teams on its own. These two are some of the most dangerous archetypes there are atm, and a pokemon that can easily beat and outstall them is invaluable. IMO, subroost (and possibly specs?) is the only set Kyurem has to differentiate itself, but it's a very good one at that and certainly makes it an excellent pokemon. Add some Toxic spikes down and it beat most stall teams easily. So don't act like it's a bad poke, it really isn't.
  9. Rohail

    Rohail Vaporeon <3
    is a Contributor to Smogon
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2013
    Messages:
    771
    I don't understand what ur trying to say here but Celebi and Starmie are better counters to Keldeo than Gastrodon. Celebi can come in on almost any of Keldeo's attacks except the uncommon HP Bug and OHKO with Leaf Storm. Same goes to Starmie although it gotta be more careful because of weaker defenses; Starmie can still OHKO with T-Bolt. Both have reliable recovery in Recover.
  10. ZandgaiaX

    ZandgaiaX

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2009
    Messages:
    564
    Please tell me how Starmie is a counter, it is a check (*shudder*): Starmie Outspeeds the specs, sub CM and offensive CM sets, but DOES NOT OHKO without prior damage.

    252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Keldeo: 247-291 (76.23 - 89.81%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    Scarfdeo outspeeds Starmie regardless too.

    Also:

    252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hidden Power Ghost vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Starmie: 260-306 (99.61 - 117.24%) -- 93.75% chance to OHKO
    252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Starmie: 166-196 (63.6 - 75.09%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    Not reliable, not to mention that Starmie is very frail to reliably use Recover a lot.

    Not to mention, what is Starmie going to do against a Keldeo with either a sub up or a CM?

    252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Thunderbolt vs. +1 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo: 164-195 (50.77 - 60.37%) -- 89.45% chance to 2HKO

    And guess which move Keldeo commonly runs? HP-Ghost, yeah: Gastrodon does it better. Sure Keldeo still threatens it, but what does Keldeo not threaten? Not to mention the ability to nullify Keldeo's strongest stab is a huge plus.

    Calcs with Keldeo vs Standard Defensive Gastrodon with EQ:

    252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 84 Def Gastrodon: 169-201 (39.67 - 47.18%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 84 Def Gastrodon: 253-298 (59.38 - 69.95%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    0 Atk Gastrodon Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 102-120 (31.57 - 37.15%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
    0 Atk Gastrodon Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 102-120 (31.48 - 37.03%) -- 82.96% chance to 3HKO

    Please tell me how Starmie does it better than Gastrodon.
    However, both have very different roles: the only thing they have in common is a water-typing, other than that. It's pretty much comparing apples and pears.

    Also, about Celebi:

    0 SpA Celebi Giga Drain vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Keldeo: 176-210 (54.32 - 64.81%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252 SpA Keldeo Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 232+ SpD Celebi: 112-132 (27.72 - 32.67%) -- possible 4HKO
    252 SpA Keldeo Hidden Power Bug vs. 252 HP / 232+ SpD Celebi: 224-264 (55.44 - 65.34%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    and with bug becoming somewhat more popular, you can hopefully see where this is going. Also, please tell me when it has been a good idea to use leafstorm over giga drain, maybe I'm just too passive a player: I don't know.

    However, Sp. Defensive Celebi is and will be the best counter to Keldeo w/o Bug, but Specs HP-ghost comes 'close' to beating it:

    252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hidden Power Ghost vs. 252 HP / 232+ SpD Celebi: 168-198 (41.58 - 49%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

    However this is all pure theorymon, prior damage, hazards and weather haven't even been factored in: because I'm lazy like that.
  11. ciaranroy

    ciaranroy

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2012
    Messages:
    119
    252SpAtk Life Orb Starmie (Neutral) Psyshock vs 4HP/0Def Keldeo (Neutral): 96% - 113% (312 - 368 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 78% chance to OHKO.

    Why use Thunderbolt? Starmie is the best offensive reply to Keldeo. Jellicent pretty much hard walls any Keldeo set, as HP Bug is more common, and Scarf HP Ghost only 3HKOs. Sure, Specs HP Ghost 2HKOs most of the time, but it just becomes a switch in opportunity for Tyranitar or anything else that resists Ghost.
  12. sparktrain

    sparktrain

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2013
    Messages:
    543
    SubRoost can actually be pulled off by Kyurem-B pretty well, some might argue better than Kyurem. A set with Substitute/Roost/Dragon Tail/Hone Claws is great for shuffling, and the main advantages to using Kyu-B are more powerful Dragon Tails, and slightly more bulk. Kyurem-B outclasses or is equal to Kyurem in literally every stat except special attack. This means that the only real sets in which Kyurem can pull something off better than Kyu-B are pure special attacking sets (like a scarf set with 4 special attacks), or super stally sets in which Pressure is preferred. Other than that, Kyurem is unfortunately and hopelessly outclassed by its alternate form.
  13. Spirit

    Spirit
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2013
    Messages:
    1,032
    Yeah, but regular Kuyrem is better because of pressure. Stalls out SE, Gyro balls, ect.. Subroost Kyurem outclasses subroost K-B.
  14. Gary2346

    Gary2346 A filthy casual
    is a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2011
    Messages:
    1,380
    Stalling out Gyro Ball from Ferrothorn and possibly Forretress is huge, as it leaves them as easy setup fodder for Kyurem itself or possibly something else later in the match. Not just that, but it's also useful for stalling out Hydro Pump from Choice Specs Politoed, whom can 2HKO a majority of the tier. Stalling out T-Tar's Stone Edge is huge too, especially if its banded. Puts a lot less pressure on teams that are wary of Stone Edge, as it deals huge damage to pretty much anything. I've used Kyurem extensively these past few weeks, and I've come to conclude that it's extremely underrated. So many people overlook the importance and devastation of Pressure. Kyurem-B definitely doesn't outclass Kyurem-C in the SubRoost department.

    I also have to agree that Kyurem's Specs set is quite underrated too. Hits as hard as Latios, but has the added perk of hitting Heatran and Tyranitar with Focus Blast or Earth Power. Speed is the problem, but with proper support Kyurem's Specs set is extremely powerful, especially on a Hail team since it can run Blizzard.
  15. Lord of Bays

    Lord of Bays

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2010
    Messages:
    1,105
    What makes Sub Kyurem-B so dangerous is that his middling speed is circumvented (except, I guess, Dual Chop Haxorus/Rock Blast Cloyster/etc.) and he can let rip with the most ridiculous mixed attacking stats this side of Rayquaza. Regular Kyurem is unquestionably the better Sub staller because of Pressure, but that's mostly it.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)