OU Stats (May 2013)

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#51
-Donphan is the most viable spinner for a sun team. Sun teams HAVE to have a spinner and the only other OU pokemon are starmie, forretress and tentacruel iirc and all of them suck under sun.
Espeon, Xatu, and Forretress can all work on Sun teams, arguably better than donphan in their own ways. Donphan vulnerability to (t)spikes, lack of recovery, horrible speed, easily exploitable SpD, and pitifully weak offenses means it will often struggle to do it's job. Furthermore Donphan is only paired with Ninetales 24% of the time, the other times of which you very likely definitely have a better option than Donphan.
-Jolteon is an electric attack absorber on rain teams as well as a decent cleaner. Thunderus-t is always compared to him but jolteon has a few advantages such as having amazing speed right off the bat and no SR weakness (and better typing overall)
Jolteon coming in on electric attacks on a rain team is also one of the most predictable things ever, and if you mispredict with Jolteon it's screwed. I use 0 SpA SpD Rotom-W as my lead against rain teams, turn 1 they bring out Politoed and then switch to Jolteon and eat a Hydro Pump for 77-92%, which puts it on a very short timer for the rest of the match. More offensive Rotom-W will be looking at 1 shotting jolteon. For an electric type absorber its honestly just not that good against one of the most used electric types.[/QUOTE]
 

Robert Alfons

hot like the tropics
is a Tiering Contributor
#52
@Halycon of Light: By "stop using Breloom", I didn't mean they should stop using it because it's bad, but rather because it's one of the cheapest things I have ever fought, right up there with Gliscor and paraflinch Jirachi. It's so anti-meta that the only way you can really stop it dead is by having something dedicated to absorb a Spore and hit Breloom before it boosts with SD and wrecks errything. I always find it hard to play around Breloom unless the opponent uses him as a lead and I use Celebi as a lead in order to Psychic the bitch dead (I actually run Psychic on Celebi just to get rid of Breloom). It's got basically everything it needs and some more and that's what frustrates me. Luckily Breloom gets predictable because the majority of Breloom users that horribly broken SD set so I can at least do something to it, but still. I just hate it. I'd rather face a hundred Tormentrans (on that note, start using that Heatran set more often, guys).
 
#53
Recently I used Jolteon for the first time in a rain team while i was trying to use tornadus, and i have to say that it's pretty bad. not only is it hard to switch in, (an air balloon helped a little bit with that) but unless you manage to OHKO with 1 HP Ice or Thunder, you're pretty much going down by any neutral attack.

@Halycon of Light: By "stop using Breloom", I didn't mean they should stop using it because it's bad, but rather because it's one of the cheapest things I have ever fought, right up there with Gliscor and paraflinch Jirachi. It's so anti-meta that the only way you can really stop it dead is by having something dedicated to absorb a Spore and hit Breloom before it boosts with SD and wrecks errything. I always find it hard to play around Breloom unless the opponent uses him as a lead and I use Celebi as a lead in order to Psychic the bitch dead (I actually run Psychic on Celebi just to get rid of Breloom). It's got basically everything it needs and some more and that's what frustrates me. Luckily Breloom gets predictable because the majority of Breloom users that horribly broken SD set so I can at least do something to it, but still. I just hate it. I'd rather face a hundred Tormentrans (on that note, start using that Heatran set more often, guys).
"Stop using it, it's too good."
 
#54
I feel that Virizion should get much more usage in OU. While it's a UU Pokémon and being in the top #100 of the OU stats are pretty nice, it really sucks balls that it she really isn't used a lot more.

Calm Mind Virizion's are great to finish off weakened teams with and set-up on Pokémon that are weak to her (forcing switches etc.) and she is also decent for stalling purposes thanks to her learning Substitute.

Meanwhile, Swords Dance variants can clean off weakened teams, and once the Pokémon that outspeed her are gone and things like Bronzong are weakened / defeated, she can be a real threat to the opponents team.

She can even utilise in a Work Up set thanks to Base 90 Attacking Stats, with a set of Giga Drain / Close Combat / Substitute / Hidden Power [Ice] or Stone Edge in the last moveslot.

She can also works on Rain teams, losing a weakness to Fire and even though she gains a neutrality to Water, after a +1 / +2 boost Giga Drain just annihilates most water types anyway, if that backs up for it. Also, about 75% of the attacks are special attacks which is nice thanks to its already high Base 129 Special Defense Stat, as well as the fact that most Virizion's carry Lum Berry for Scalding Pokémon such as Jellicent and Politoed.

However, fast Flying types and full on physical-attackers can defeat Virizion with ease, thanks to its mediocre Base 72 Defense Stat, despite the fact that this is backed up by an alright Base 91 HP Stat (it just isn't enough).

I believed that she used to be completely OU once, where she performed decently well with the right support. She is also 1 of 2 Pokémon to have the unique Grass / Fighting type!
 
#55
| 53 | Victini | 3.07917% | 58258 | 2.716% | 46415 | 2.686% |
If something called Politoed or Tyranitar switches in while Victini uses V-create, Victini is fucked. I'd use Darmanitan over it anyday, since at least it has access to Wild Charge and Superpower.
| 58 | Kingdra | 2.23284% | 56006 | 2.611% | 44622 | 2.582% | Somewhat agreed but it faces too much competition from other dragon-types, and sweeping with it isn't that easy.
| 67 | Togekiss | 1.56557% | 55098 | 2.569% | 43599 | 2.523% |
Togekiss deserves LESS usage. I originally thought it needs more love, but after using it for a while I realized I was wrong. Why use Togekiss as a paraflincher when there's Jirachi, who at least has a good typing, Calm Mind, and higher speed? HustleKiss is IMO its best set.
| 76 | Zapdos | 1.43662% | 35042 | 1.634% | 28566 | 1.653% |
Thundurus-T says otherwise...
| 78 | Mienshao | 1.28984% | 32046 | 1.494% | 26922 | 1.558% |
Agreed.
| 84 | Snorlax | 1.13534% | 58698 | 2.736% | 47440 | 2.745% |
Somewhat agreed, but it's only good for beating sun teams IMO.
| 96 | Raikou | 0.86568% | 18196 | 0.848% | 14585 | 0.844% |
Thundurus-T says otherwise...
Some underrated mons that deserve more usage.
I only agree with Mienshao on this list.

IMO this is what deserves more usage:
| 54 | Weavile | 2.77081% | 68621 | 3.199% | 54535 | 3.155% |
| 55 | Sableye | 2.49856% | 61160 | 2.851% | 52086 | 3.014% |
| 61 | Gothitelle | 1.80164% | 25584 | 1.193% | 21026 | 1.217% |
| 63 | Stoutland | 1.76867% | 21522 | 1.003% | 16299 | 0.943% |
| 64 | Machamp | 1.67492% | 47108 | 2.196% | 39836 | 2.305% |
| 65 | Slowbro | 1.64857% | 28649 | 1.336% | 23320 | 1.349% |
| 82 | Amoonguss | 1.19694% | 16932 | 0.789% | 14109 | 0.816% |
| 108 | Hitmontop | 0.70579% | 16136 | 0.752% | 12793 | 0.740% |
| 113 | Cobalion | 0.62467% | 10837 | 0.505% | 8926 | 0.516% |
 

AccidentalGreed

Sweet and bitter as chocolate.
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
#57
Hitmontop? The guy is barely viable in UU where his ability to spin is quite rare. But if I may... What is the use for Cobalion in OU?
Cobalion's typing, great Speed, good physical defense, acess to Stealth Rock, and decent offensive options (obviously not as great as Terrakion or Keldeo, but enough to threaten others and get by in general) makes it a deceptively good offensive pivot on several teams. It's not Swords Dancing or Calm Mind sweeping if that's what you're thinking lol
 
#58
About Breloom, his Low Sweep LO set should not be forget. He's absolutely deadly, and though he will die quickly, it his an absolute terror for your opponent. One common error is to start by Sporing, but often it is better to start Low Sweeping, and bar a switch like ScarfTios, it is a very funny chain which start : or your opponent let his mon die, or he switch, and he'll take other important damage, and will often being forced to the same choice between sacrificing the mon/let his team takes enormous damage waiting for LO to kill loom.
Even a hard counter like Celebi can be catch by Entry Hazard + Low Sweep, followed by Spore.
And always effective for some RKing.

IMO this is what deserves more usage:
| 54 | Weavile | 2.77081% | 68621 | 3.199% | 54535 | 3.155% |
| 55 | Sableye | 2.49856% | 61160 | 2.851% | 52086 | 3.014% |
| 61 | Gothitelle | 1.80164% | 25584 | 1.193% | 21026 | 1.217% |
| 63 | Stoutland | 1.76867% | 21522 | 1.003% | 16299 | 0.943% |
| 64 | Machamp | 1.67492% | 47108 | 2.196% | 39836 | 2.305% |
| 65 | Slowbro | 1.64857% | 28649 | 1.336% | 23320 | 1.349% |
| 82 | Amoonguss | 1.19694% | 16932 | 0.789% | 14109 | 0.816% |
| 108 | Hitmontop | 0.70579% | 16136 | 0.752% | 12793 | 0.740% |
| 113 | Cobalion | 0.62467% | 10837 | 0.505% | 8926 | 0.516% |
Weavile can be annoying, though I don't know if it deserves more. He can be really good in HO, so probably it deserves.
Sableye is good, and can make people crazy, but WoW's miss (+ weather boosted attack/Lando) are so a massive pain that they justify he is not more used.
Gothi has Shadow Tag, enough said.
Stoutland, I don't think he's really good, absolutely depending of weather and can be killed by BP/MP.
Machamp, it haxxes with DynamicPunch but what does it have over Conkeldurr bar that ?
Slowbro is cool with Regenerator, and Amoonguss too. Especially Amoonguss. We can notice that it has twice the usage of standard in 1850's, and notably in Sand Stall he can be a pain spreading sleep and paralysis.
Hitmontop has too many drawbacks, and Cobalion, if he deserves a better usage than numerous mons more used than him, we're in the mons that, in long term, are just not good enough.
 
#59
Cloyster deserves more usage. Yeah, maybe Conkeldurr can put it out of commission so easy, but still being good.
Tornadus is freaking good, he has more Special Attack than Tornadus-T, I can't understand why people don't use it in at least rain teams. Plus, his ability makes it a good answer to Whimsicott and Sableye, and also makes it a good candidate to set up Tailwind or rain for Swift Swim users.
Infernape deserves less usage, even UU.
Luke needs more usage, if it works, it can destroy entire teams. Maybe if he just got DD...
 
#60
@DoaBarrelRoll

Politoed should be extremely careful about switching into victini, since Victini has access to the powerful bolt strike. I don't know about you, but a fire type with a 130bp electric move is pretty damn good and should see it get a little more usage. Also, darmanitan does not get wild charge, and superpower isn't a good move to lock yourself into.

As for tyranitar, victini should just not be played until it goes down. If it does, it should be selecting U-turn every time, preferably to get to dugtrio in order to trap and kill it.

Victini does require support, but its still quite capable and your comments towards it are rather incorrect.
 
#61
Breloom is probably the first Pokemon in competitive history to be so predictable, yet still very hard to counter. Even though it using Spore on a slower Pokemon is possibly the most predictable play style ever, only things with Sleep Talk or Insomnia / Vital Spirit can take it on then. Trust me, I once got so annoyed with it, I put Sleep Talk Scarf Heracross on my team just for taking those out.
 
#63
I would just like to point out that (some of) the Whimsicott usage was mine because I made a Tailwind team with an offensive one. Crazy as it sound it's an amazing team
 
#64
As for tyranitar, victini should just not be played until it goes down. If it does, it should be selecting U-turn every time, preferably to get to dugtrio in order to trap and kill it.
Banded victini 2hkos offensive ttar with v-create.

Of course this doesn't work well with scarf+bulky varients

But I feel as if those aren't nearly as threatening to sun teams as band tar is
 

Kitten Milk

[22:59:31] <KittenUU> 241 of which are fellacious
#65
TR Victini with Brick Break can actually be a decent threat against TTar and sand in general, especially on a sun team.

The set goes something like this -

Victini @ Life Orb/Charcoal/Leftovers
Trait: Victory Star
EVs: 252 Atk/252 SpA/4 SpD or 252 Atk/252 HP/4 SpD (both sets run 0 speed and 0 speed IVs)
- V-Create
- Trick Room
- Brick Break / Psychic
- Bolt Strike / Grass Knot

It's best to pair it with another sweeper that can benefit sun teams. I personally like it with SF Conk.
 
#66
thing about sun teams is, while there are a lot of pokemon that work amazingly under the sun there are a couple of huge problems. One is, Ninetales is awful. politoed is actually decent just outclassed without Drizzle. Ninetales on the otherhand has no standout qualities. then there is the matter of: where do you fit originality? Ninetales sucks and needs Dugtrio to win weather wars. Then you'll probably want a spinner because all the sun sweepers/Ninetales have Stealth Rock weaknesses, and if Rocks are down, Tyranitar doesn't fear Sashtrio. after that, you have only 3 slots. usually you'll want one for a Chlorophyll sweeper, most of the time Venusaur. So where do you fit Victini, Amoonguss, Cresselia, Darmanitan, etc? With rain teams you just need Politoed, then you can have 5 free slots for whatever you want. i think this is part of the reason that so many pokemon that require rain to be effective are in OU but sun-mons are scattered in lower tiers.
 
#68
Sun teams don't suck as much as some people make it sound. When I reached 1730 I faced many amazing battlers. When I noticed, sun teams for me were the hardest for me to win against. So to me, this means that only good players are capable of running a great sun team. It is like 70% of the players really can't make a good sun team and this is why sun teams are always said to be bad. No, they aren't so bad.

Rain team is easier to make as you have many options, monsters like Keldeo, Toxicroak (Yes, it is good in rain) or defensive stuff like Vaporeon.
 
#69
I can't believe how little usage Volcarona and Latias get. They are both capable of winning matches on their own.
1. Volcarona hates Rocks as you know, and good players tend to avoid SR weakness.

2. Latias, well it is very underrated in my opinion. Though it can be completely shut down my Toxic or even T-Wave, plus if you don't have max investment in SPA for Latias, then it's quite weak, so before you can OHKO your enemy, your enemy will just Roar you out.

Besides, Latias is overshadowed by her brother Latios, because gen 5 is offense offense and offense.
 
#70
1. Volcarona hates Rocks as you know, and good players tend to avoid SR weakness.
In general yes, but this is Volcarona we're talking about, not Articuno or Delibird. If you build around it, Volcarona is absolutely goddamn terrifying. Setting up a QD isn't difficult if you can control the weather and allow some investment into Volc's respectable special bulk. 1 QD is often all it takes. With LO and sun, Volc can 2HKO Chansey with Fire Blast. Would be counters such as Dnite and Gyarados fall to the sheer power of a Volcarona in the sun.

You don't even need that much support. Ninetales for sun, which is hardly a sacrifice due to the huge benefits sun brings. Something for Heatran, Dugtrio is a great fit. And a spinner/Magic Bouncer (Donphan, Espeon and Xatu are your options here really).

I can't comment on the rain set, as I've never used it, but don't look at Volcarona and swat it aside as another SR weak scrub mon. Landorus can fuck off, this would be tested if SR didn't exist.
 
#71
| 1 | Scizor | 23.48928% |
| 2 | Ferrothorn | 19.98081% |
| 3 | Politoed | 18.90903% |


LOL, who could have predicted this????? If only someone could have seen this comin.....

Drizzle is now even MORE common on the OU ladder after the bans bahahahaha

Gen 6 can't come fast enough.
 
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