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Discussion in 'BW OU' started by NixHex, May 1, 2013.
Chou, according to Articblast this combination of Hydro Pump + Moxie is legal. ^^
Yeah apparently it is legal. I think I was confused from back when MoxieGon was first released in BW1 and it was male only hence it couldn't get Hydro Pump from an egg. Sort of like how Outrage + Dragon Dance wasn't legal. Sorry for the confusion.
edit: Schooled by Arcticblast (see my wall for explanation). Point is I was just commenting on how Fire Blast is probably the best option for a special move on Scarf Mence *anyway*, but since Hydro Pump is actually legal on it, then okay. Just haven't seen any Hydro Pump Mence's in recent history I guess.
April showers bring May flowers.
Hi, it's Blaze again. Sorry about the mix-up last time I commented on something, no, Bronzong does not counter Haxorus very well because of Mold Breaker. I honestly had forgotten about that. Anyways, more stat time because April stats are in!
12 | Keldeo | 12.92283% | 108597 | 7.914% | 84037 | 7.603%
Keldeo is up at number 12? Good job. Keldeo is a pretty good Pokemon all things said about it. If it had better coverage I'm sure it would have been banned by now. I like using him and countering him isn't hard to do at all really, but once the checks and counters are gone he is a pain. Hopefully he won't get banned and DrizzleDrought will, because I'll miss him if he leaves before Drozzle does.
| 15 | Celebi | 10.71112% | 98813 | 7.201% | 81129 | 7.340% |
Nice to see a Pokemon that was once so frowned upon being giving a lot more usage. A great counter to a lot of things, and even though it is a little bit weak to the VoltTurn core because of the 4x weakness to VoltTurn, this Pokemon fills such a large variety of rules, from defensive sets to offensive sets to team support. Plus, having something the nearly foolproof counters Keldeo is always nice. I might start running HP Bug on my Keldeo this time!
16 | Forretress | 10.43795% | 124738 | 9.091% | 108074 | 9.778%
Ewwww....I've never liked Forretress. It always seemed so outclassed on so many levels. If I need something to set up entry hazards, I would just use Deoxys-D Ferrothorn or Skarmory, as neither one of them is as much of a laggard as Forretress can be. Ferrothorn comes with a better typing all things said, better passive recovery, and a more powerful Gyro Ball. Skarmory may not have Gyro Ball, but the lack of 4x weaknesses plus Roost and Whirlwind, not to mention a decently powerful Brave Bird, make up for it. I honestly find Forretress to be a bit of a let-down for a hazard setter. Even Tenta is better with Toxic Spikes, though Toxic Spikes is kinda bad nowadays.
For a spinner, Forretress is crap. Gengar and Jellicent EASILY beat it one on one(Gengar does need to worry about Gyro Ball though, but Disable fixes that), and Volt switch won't damage Jelli anything major, and, as an added fault, it won't break Gengar's Subs 100% without nearly max EVs in Special Attack AND a positive nature. And lol no to that. Tentacruel can Toxic Jellicent and laugh off Scalds, Will-O-Wisps, and Shadow Balls. Tentacruel can also Scald Gengar, and it will always break Gengar's sub with Ice Beam. Starmie is great with both Psyshock for dealing with Gengar and Thunder for dealing with Jellicent. Even Thunderbolt will seal the deal with enough hazards in play. I guess Forry is no Donphan, but still.
18 | Landorus-Therian | 10.04252% | 75977 | 5.537% | 66084 | 5.979%
28 | Gliscor | 8.26339% | 126618 | 9.228% | 100389 | 9.083%
I know everyone compares Lando-T to his Incarnate brother, but I am glad to see that finally Landorus-Therian has broken free from the shackles and surpassed Gliscor as the Ground/flying type by a nice and healthy margin. Landorus just brings more to the table than Gliscor does in my opinion. The days of Gliscor comebacks are gone, but not forgotten.
51 | Haxorus | 3.97379% | 61323 | 4.469% | 46781 | 4.232%
IS THAT UNDER 4% I SEE THAR? Yeah, but JUST BARELY. Maybe it will drop, maybe it won't. Funny, the times I was on PO when Hax was around my UU team handled him perfectly. Without a Steel type.
52 | Tornadus | 3.41432% | 29764 | 2.169% | 22879 | 2.070% |
53 | Victini | 3.05064% | 39074 | 2.848% | 31105 | 2.814% |
54 | Weavile | 2.48384% | 42084 | 3.067% | 32863 | 2.973% |
These three are Pokemon I feel need to rise to the OU challenge. Tornadus is pretty good, and thankfully, is not at a speed tier like Tornadus-T where it outspeeds every relevant threat outside of Jolteon. It has a very nice Special Attack stat to fly Hurricanes off of, and can still even use AcroBulk to decent effect here because everyone will assume it is running Hurricane. Even the Sub won't give it away.
Victini got so much better with Bolt Strike and Blue Flare added to its inventory of powerful moves. If this thing goes to OU, which I think it might, then it would definitely be the mixed wallbreaker in the same vein that Infernape was, just quite a bit better. TTar is a good counter outside of Brick Break, and, as an added bonus:
252 Atk Life Orb Victini Bolt Strike vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 338-398 (104.32 - 122.83%) -- guaranteed OHKO
It's not hard to catch him on the switch. :P
Weavile is a bit harder to justify because of the massive weakness to priority. Ice/Dark is just the best however for catching the Latis unawares, as all you really need is enough speed to outrun Starmie and you will do fine with him. Choice Band sets could be deadly if played right, easily burrowing through Sandstall.
56 | Sableye | 2.41328% | 38040 | 2.772% | 32312 | 2.923%
Who ever said that Sableye use was going to go up, you have to realize that Prankster Sableye has been out for who knows how long, and since he can't beat a good majority of Pokemon because his stats are OU BAD, he is never, ever going to be a serious threat. Keep him in mind, but honestly, SFLO Lando just rips him apart.
77 | Ninjask | 1.37684% | 46671 | 3.401% | 41349 | 3.741%
If X and Y bring Rock or Fire priority, I will love GF forever and ever for finally putting the concrete over Ninjask's grave. Ninjask is either set up bait for Pokemon like Landorus or Terrakion, or is easily phazed away by Pokemon like Skarmory.
86 | Charizard | 1.03297% | 39855 | 2.905% | 31897 | 2.886%
88 | Sharpedo | 1.01144% | 14623 | 1.066% | 11031 | 0.998%
Hey guys, at least Sharpedo is USEFUL outside of Rain. What's a Charizard outside of sun? A worse Moltres. And Moltres is already pretty bad.
199 | Regice | 0.12319% | 3400 | 0.248% | 2584 | 0.234%
Still better than Ninjask. *shot*
I've actually used this guy in OU, and he is pretty nice on Hail teams. The lack of Ice Body is STILL SADDENING, but with so much natural special bulk its hard to really beat him with special attacks. Granted, his use in OU should only apply to Hail teams, which are dead anyways, but isn't a bad option. Great for Dragon killing with some Sp.Def investment.
Why so much Ninjask hate? Are there still people using Ninjask without Baton Pass?
Ninjask is super easy to stop. Taunt and whirlwind completely shut it it down and it only gets one chance to pass thanks to its SR weakness. It basically forces you to run espeon if you want ninjask to be successful.
It is like what Magcargo said. Ninjask is really easy to stop. And a playstyle that forces you to use two Pokemon nearly all the time is bad. At least with the weathers you can be creative to an extent. A BP team is just the same thing over and over again, with either the recipient being Espeon or some random Poke. Ninjask needs to stay in the NU tier where he belongs. BP chains are simply bad in OU.
Perish Song is also a way to counter BP and not have to worry about Espeon as well.
baton pass is pretty much uncounterable if you are smart and know how to play it right.Don't forget that it was suspected about 2 years ago. also i fail to see how ninjask is setup bait for terrak when it bp's speed to espeon which ohkos terra with stored power.
Terrak has Taunt, and it can Taunt before Ninjask gets any (noticable) speed boosts and set up Stealth Rock.
Just because something was suspected 2 years ago doesn't mean it is good now. It has its moments but tends to be a strategy that most decent people beat easily. Even I can, and I'm not the greatest.
Chuck all that shit.
can all those people who were insisting 'The rain era is over' stand up please.
Politoed v/s Tyranitar usage speaks volumes
Plus just in a month rain and caught up and edged past (albeit very slightly) past sand in the teamstyle rankings.
Bolded relevant part. Not true at all.
Coming back for a few more comments after looking through the discussion.
| 11 | Starmie | 13.34829% | 150402 | 10.961% | 117636 | 10.643% |
| 12 | Keldeo | 12.92283% | 108597 | 7.914% | 84037 | 7.603% |
Strange. Keldeo deserves more usage than Starmie. True, Starmie is a good offensive spinner, but still tends to die quickly since it is not powerful enough to break through a decently healthy Tyranitar, who Pursuits it. Keldeo on the other hand, destroys Scizor, and most Terrakion will probably switch out of it.
| 18 | Landorus-Therian | 10.04252% | 75977 | 5.537% | 66084 | 5.979%|
| 23 | Landorus | 9.09626% | 71921 | 5.242% | 56428 | 5.105% |
Can people stop raging over this? Lando-T is used more because it is harder to take down, and has more utility than Lando-I. Lando-I's only really decent set is Sheer Force. The second best I've seen is choice scarf, but it is very reliant on sand, making Terrakion generally a better scarfer.
| 35 | Lucario | 6.42783% | 91616 | 6.677% | 71083 | 6.431% |
| 36 | Conkeldurr | 6.36051% | 83363 | 6.075% | 66348 | 6.003% |
Guess Lucario's gonna stay above Conk for a while longer. It plays similarly to EKiller in ubers in practice, but Conk plays as a bulky attacker, so that sets them apart I guess.
| 32 | Infernape | 6.95482% | 114731 | 8.362% | 92196 | 8.341% |
| 33 | Latias | 6.91747% | 66945 | 4.879% | 51845 | 4.691% |
Though I don't agree with the rage over this, I think Latias deserves more usage. Its probably the best glue a sun team can get.
| 48 | Metagross | 4.29298% | 82674 | 6.025% | 67134 | 6.074% |
Come on. Metagross isn't THAT outclassed. it takes Outrages like a champ, even better than Scizor, and still packs a heck of a punch. If it falls to UU, it'll be in the top 10 usage all the time.
| 51 | Haxorus | 3.97379% | 61323 | 4.469% | 46781 | 4.232% |
If this drops, it'll be as broken as hell, so its gonna be BL. Kinda sad, but fitting, as it is so easily revenged.
| 52 | Tornadus | 3.41432% | 29764 | 2.169% | 22879 | 2.070% |
Good. Keep rising. This thing screws over so many things in OU with Prankster Taunt, making it one of the best checks to Low Sweep Breloom. Hurricane coming off that 125 Special Attack is also a scary move to switch into.
Why are people hating Kyurem-B, with a Choice Band it destroys lives. Even steels are 2hkod -Physically defensive Ferro and Heatran. CB has no moves? Outrage Fusion Bolt Freeze Shock (2 turns? Who cares, OHKO on Ferro who unless they have Protect or lolsub, GG) and as a 4th, Sleep Talk so nothing on your team has to be useless.
Rain went up by about 1.2%. Keldeo (good in any weather except Sun), Celebi (more common on Sand), and Thundurus-T (okay you got me there) all went up by about that much or more this month. Meanwhile, Salamence and Gliscor fell similar amounts. The slight increase in Rain isn't as big of a deal as you're making it out to be. It's a fluctuation in usage. Some of the people playing Sun and weatherless (Sand and Hail actually experienced increased usage) might have gotten bored of their teams and switched to Rain. Maybe a bunch of newer players joined and were told that Rain is easy to build and play (true statement) and decided to use it as a starting point. The point is that there isn't enough of a change in Rain's usage to draw conclusions. We'll have to wait for the 1850 stats to come out for that.
Full Baton Pass teams are bad. Loljask can't pass anything bar speed boosts if the opponent has any priority move not named Mach Punch or lolVacuumWave. And even if it manages to Baton Pass to Espeon, Stored Power still doesn't OHKO lead Terrakion simply because of the Focus Sash. Meanwhile Espeon gets screwed by Stone Edge.
88 | Sharpedo | 1.01144% | 14623 | 1.066% | 11031 | 0.998%
I don't see why Sharpedo isn't used more than Charizard? Sharpedo has a much better role than Charizard.
People who use Charizard in OU probably don't really know what the hell their doing. Actually I rephrase, they DON'T know what the hell their doing. On a serious note though, Sharpedo is REALLY good in this metagame, even outside of rain. It requires some support, but it can be devastating to pretty much any team late game. I agree, it needs more usage. Same with Feraligatr.
I don't understand how Sharpedo can work in a metagame with things like Breloom, Extremespeed Dragonite, Gyarados, Keldeo and Ferrothorn everywhere.
I'm not saying it's bad, but I find the current OU metagame to be very harsh to it.
What the EFF is happening to Gengar and Gliscor. Do they want themselves get kicked out of OU?
I can see Gengar slowly fading away as it really isn't so good. The only actually good set is a Scarf, which Smogon doesn't even have a analysis.
This can be argued a little - who can take physical hits better? Gliscor's 125 or Landorus' Intimidate makes him better?
Start using this shit.
Azumarill is overrated. This thing is a fucking bossmaster in the rain.
Maybe you're right but if you check 2-3 months back (when politoed dropped startlingly in usage) this is a remarkable shift, even by statistical standards.
But I guess we'll really lave to wait till the l33t stats are out to get a fairer picture. Ca't wait to spot the trends.
I like how Scizor's so damn overused. Looks like I need to kill a couple more with my HP Fire Alakazam to make people stop using it so much :P
Overall, I have found the standard Alakazam to be able to counter almost everything. It wrecks the metagame. If only it weren't so frail.
While scizor doesn't deserve #1 usage, it does have more utilities than many standard pokemon, making it easier to fit onto teams.
I think it's pretty funny that Scizor actually gets more usage than Genesect did (not counting the >50% usage in the suspect test...). Scizor is good, but I just don't see him as being as good as he used to be in BW1 or DPP. Also, as a side note, I feel like I see way more Swords Dance Scizor than I usually do on the ladder.
Alakazam is the ultimate check to Scizor. Nobody still expects Alakazam to carry HP Fire, and so they boost instead of going straight for the Bullet Punch, which KOs Alakazam. But 80% of the time they try to go for a non-priority move and get creamed.
For Keldeo, Brave Birding Skarmory is a good choice. Psyshock Alakazam also makes short work of it.
Alakazam seems to be a catch-all check for pretty much everything in OU at the moment. With a Focus Sash, its practically a fail safe revenge killer, and can destroy specific threats with different Hidden Powers. I use HP Fire, so I can catch Scizor, Ferrothorn and Forretress unawares (and to an extent, Jirachi). I can also see HP Ice being good, especially for RP Landorus and all the 4x weak Dragons.
Also, Kyurem-B needs more love.
Alakazam is really a good Pokemon in OU. It can be very difficult to prepare for(though anything with priority kills it because of its very frail defenses.)
Skarmory is probably one of the things you DON'T want to switch in on a Keldeo, or even use to check it. Granted, HP Ice and Secret Sword don't do all too much damage, but a Brave Bird only 2HKOs Keldeo, and Keldeo will 2HKO you with either Surf of Hydro Pump. And both OHKO in rain after Stealth Rock. (All calcs Scarf.)
Alakazam is a nice check with Focus Sash. It is sad though that Secret Sword 2HKOs him on the Scarf set. If you aren't worried about pink blobs either, Psychic is better for Keldeo, since it will always OHKO him, while Psyshock will only KO him 43% of the time if SR is not in play.
I've used the Scarf version to great effect on a Hail team(since you really don't need much investment in blizzard to kill stuff), but otherwise, I find him mediocre. Kyurem can has a different mix from the other dragons, but that is all I find in him.
You're finding Kyu-B mediocre because choiced Kyu-B is mediocre.
Kyu-B should be absuing its bulk and ability to employ both physical and special attacks without being locked; that's what it has over the other dragons and it's pretty damn good at it.