Gen 3 OU Suicide Team

#1
Everything on this team is built to suicide to try to set up for late-game raikou sweep.

Alakazam (M) @ Petaya Berry
Trait: Synchronize
EVs: 200 HP / 40 Def / 176 Spd / 92 SAtk
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Fire Punch
- Ice Punch
- Psychic

301 hp for blissey, survives 300 atk lax shadow ball, still has 352 speed with 329 satk, this thing goes all out vs lax/bliss to get it into duggy ko range to support raikou. This thing is amazing, the most important support piece to raikou on the team.

Dugtrio (M) @ Choice Band
Trait: Arena Trap
EVs: 228 Atk / 232 Spd / 48 SDef
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Aerial Ace
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Bug]
- Rock Slide

needed to kill those annoying special walls for sure

Raikou @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 124 HP / 220 Spd / 164 SAtk
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Substitute
- Thunderbolt

finisher, but even this thing can be good if going suicide.

Metagross @ Leftovers
Trait: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 56 Atk / 16 Def / 132 Spd / 52 SDef
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Explosion
- Meteor Mash
- Reflect

reflect for random supporting stuff, and this thing is very bulky to take some hits before it booms.

Gengar (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 44 HP / 156 Atk / 188 Spd / 120 SAtk
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Explosion
- Ice Punch
- Thunderbolt / Giga Drain
- Will-O-Wisp

standard boomgar with wisp so i can cut the attacks of pokes, which can very often lead to easier setups for other pokes, since noboby but meta can take phyiscal hits that well.

Snorlax (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Immunity
EVs: 76 HP / 136 Atk / 96 Def / 4 Spd / 92 SAtk / 104 SDef
Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast
- Return
- Selfdestruct

standard boomlax, never liked shadow ball on my boomlax's


Comments:
-This team can very often have trouble with pert, i sometimes consider putting giga drain > wisp on gar.
-This team can be hit or miss, depending on what teams they are using, and if they've played this team before its never as effective the 2nd time
-This team main thing to do when using this team is to scope out your opponents team, and hide as much as your team as you can until necessary.

overall its a very fun team to use, and i've had decent but not great results. Unlike the last team i posted i am really looking to change this team for the better, and want some opinions on how to do so.
 
#2
Not looking too deeply at your team I'm having a hard time coming up with how you counter Gengar. Metagross + Raikou seems like it would handle it well enough, I'd just hate to see Meta get burned only to force Gengar out the next turn, or Raikou exploded on. Not necessarily pointing out a weakness, I'm just curious.
 
#3
Not looking too deeply at your team I'm having a hard time coming up with how you counter Gengar. Metagross + Raikou seems like it would handle it well enough, I'd just hate to see Meta get burned only to force Gengar out the next turn, or Raikou exploded on. Not necessarily pointing out a weakness, I'm just curious.
i usually just use lax first, but zam/meta/raikou and even dug/gar in rare situations can all be used to stop gar. Its not like gar can really switch on anything but dugtrio, or eq/returns, meaning i already have a threat to gar out at all times unless its after a duggy eq ko. Fire blast from lax still does like 40% to gars, which is generally enough to force it out quickly. Gar doesnt threaten the raikou sweep, it doesnt really bother me much.
 

Heysup

I'm your rational mind.
is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Forum Moderator Alumnus
#6
Most*, it stops so many pokemon, and also has STAB earthquake. It can die no question, its usually difficult for most teams.
 

Lutra

All generations forever.
is a Community Leaderis a Community Contributor
RoA Co-Leader
#7
Considering a large proportion of teams have other bulky waters - which Swampert can do nothing to - and the fact that Celebi is very common, I find that hard to believe. I think your opinion is based on a coincidence that many of the terrible teams posted here are weak to Swampert.
 
#8
Considering a large proportion of teams have other bulky waters - which Swampert can do nothing to - and the fact that Celebi is very common, I find that hard to believe. I think your opinion is based on a coincidence that many of the terrible teams posted here are weak to Swampert.
this is not a terrible team

oh thanks for the fixes/rates...

oh wait you didnt help, only falkner did a constructive post
 
#9
Everything on this team is built to suicide to try to set up for late-game raikou sweep.

Alakazam (M) @ Petaya Berry
Trait: Synchronize
EVs: 200 HP / 40 Def / 176 Spd / 92 SAtk
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Fire Punch
- Ice Punch
- Psychic

301 hp for blissey, survives 300 atk lax shadow ball, still has 352 speed with 329 satk, this thing goes all out vs lax/bliss to get it into duggy ko range to support raikou. This thing is amazing, the most important support piece to raikou on the team.

Maybe you should consider using Thunder Punch over Fire Punch for DD Gyarados's.

Dugtrio (M) @ Choice Band
Trait: Arena Trap
EVs: 228 Atk / 232 Spd / 48 SDef
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Aerial Ace
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Bug]
- Rock Slide

needed to kill those annoying special walls for sure

I always max out attack and spd when using CB Duggys.

Raikou @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 124 HP / 220 Spd / 164 SAtk
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Substitute
- Thunderbolt

finisher, but even this thing can be good if going suicide.

Fine.

Metagross @ Leftovers
Trait: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 56 Atk / 16 Def / 132 Spd / 52 SDef
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Explosion
- Meteor Mash
- Reflect

reflect for random supporting stuff, and this thing is very bulky to take some hits before it booms.

If you're having trouble with pert, you could use HP grass over Reflect.

Gengar (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 44 HP / 156 Atk / 188 Spd / 120 SAtk
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Explosion
- Ice Punch
- Thunderbolt
- Will-O-Wisp

standard boomgar with wisp so i can cut the attacks of pokes, which can very often lead to easier setups for other pokes, since noboby but meta can take phyiscal hits that well.

I know WOW is good against physical attackers, but Giga Drain would provide more coverage, especially against pert.

Snorlax (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Immunity
EVs: 76 HP / 136 Atk / 96 Def / 4 Spd / 92 SAtk / 104 SDef
Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast
- Return
- Selfdestruct

standard boomlax, never liked shadow ball on my boomlax's

This is great. Body slam would be good if you want to para the opponent.

Comments:
-This team can very often have trouble with pert, i sometimes consider putting giga drain > wisp on gar.
-This team can be hit or miss, depending on what teams they are using, and if they've played this team before its never as effective the 2nd time
-This team main thing to do when using this team is to scope out your opponents team, and hide as much as your team as you can until necessary.

overall its a very fun team to use, and i've had decent but not great results. Unlike the last team i posted i am really looking to change this team for the better, and want some opinions on how to do so.
 
#10
Solidus, I believe those EVs on duggy are to survive a Blissey's Ice Beam once, just to be able to ko back next turn iirc.

Hey Oh, I suggest Giga Drain > Ice Punch to take on Swampert
 
#11
I think if you can get Swampert burned, Snorlax should have no problem with it. Then, were it to Rest everything off, I'd explode to take care of it. Swampert isn't going to come in on Gengar to take it 1v1 and Gengar doesn't want to stay in, Giga Drain and risk a OHKO due to Hydro Pump.

I'm pretty sure Fire Punch is for lead Metagross(es) and I always thought the spdef evs on Duggys were to take +1 Kou Hp Grasses, but the Blissey thing sounds more reasonable.
 
#12
Everything on this team is built to suicide to try to set up for late-game raikou sweep.

Alakazam (M) @ Petaya Berry
Trait: Synchronize
EVs: 200 HP / 40 Def / 176 Spd / 92 SAtk
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Fire Punch
- Ice Punch
- Psychic

301 hp for blissey, survives 300 atk lax shadow ball, still has 352 speed with 329 satk, this thing goes all out vs lax/bliss to get it into duggy ko range to support raikou. This thing is amazing, the most important support piece to raikou on the team. (I don't think it'll fair well against Blissey or Snorlax, considering the former has insane SpDef to wall Psychic. The Latter is resistant to Fire / Ice Punch typically, and has very sturdy Special Defense.)

Dugtrio (M) @ Choice Band
Trait: Arena Trap
EVs: 228 Atk / 232 Spd / 48 SDef
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Aerial Ace
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Bug]
- Rock Slide

needed to kill those annoying special walls for sure ( You don't explain what the SpDef EVs. I've personally just run max / max. )

Raikou @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 124 HP / 220 Spd / 164 SAtk
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Substitute
- Thunderbolt

finisher, but even this thing can be good if going suicide. (You really need to put more effort into to your descriptions, so as to give us a better idea of what your Pokemon actually do. This Raikou looks fine. Explain the EV spread, as he might require max speed.)

Metagross @ Leftovers
Trait: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 56 Atk / 16 Def / 132 Spd / 52 SDef
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Explosion
- Meteor Mash
- Reflect

reflect for random supporting stuff, and this thing is very bulky to take some hits before it booms. (Explain the EV spread and how it helps in taking hits better; they seem someone random. I'd replace Reflect with Thunder / Fire / Ice / Punch)

Gengar (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 44 HP / 156 Atk / 188 Spd / 120 SAtk
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Explosion
- Ice Punch
- Thunderbolt
- Will-O-Wisp

standard boomgar with wisp so i can cut the attacks of pokes, which can very often lead to easier setups for other pokes, since noboby but meta can take phyiscal hits that well. (I think Gengar should run max speed. Shadow Ball really is needed, since you have no ghost coverage anywhere else.)

Snorlax (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Immunity
EVs: 76 HP / 136 Atk / 96 Def / 4 Spd / 92 SAtk / 104 SDef
Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast
- Return
- Selfdestruct

standard boomlax, never liked shadow ball on my boomlax's (Can Snorlax learn Fire Punch in the Third Generation? If so, give him that instead, and transfer the SpAttack / Speed EVs elsewhere. Speed really is pointless for Snorlax.)


Comments:
-This team can very often have trouble with pert, i sometimes consider putting giga drain > wisp on gar.
-This team can be hit or miss, depending on what teams they are using, and if they've played this team before its never as effective the 2nd time
-This team main thing to do when using this team is to scope out your opponents team, and hide as much as your team as you can until necessary.

overall its a very fun team to use, and i've had decent but not great results. Unlike the last team i posted i am really looking to change this team for the better, and want some opinions on how to do so. (Please explain your EV spreads better; they're somewhat random without descriptions.)
Comments in Blue.
 

Heysup

I'm your rational mind.
is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Forum Moderator Alumnus
#13
Considering a large proportion of teams have other bulky waters - which Swampert can do nothing to - and the fact that Celebi is very common, I find that hard to believe. I think your opinion is based on a coincidence that many of the terrible teams posted here are weak to Swampert.
Bleh. What im trying to say is, Swampert is definately a pokemon you should consider countering when you make a team. He is hard to kill without a grass move, he can be WALLED easily, but not killed.
 
#14
@EndlersaurusRex: this is adv. Special type moves are special and physical type physical--this means fire punch on Snorlax=not good. Alakazam is going to take those special walls 1v1 as to weaken them enough so that Duggy has an easy time finishing them off, clearing the field for Kou, as mentioned in the description which you said wasn't good enough.
 
#15
i'll go through poke by poke

zam - fire punch is for jirachi/metagross. Without fire punch zam can barely touch both of them. Gyarados can be stopped by gar once, snorlax/meta can slow it down as well. Zam is probably the only poke there's absolutely nothing i will change on.

duggy - The evs just let it take extra hits, ice beam from bliss, as well as things such as hp grass/ice's from elec pokes

raikou - raikou's need at least 338 hp, and this one needs over 350 speed. I decided to add a little extra hp incase they get spikes on me, so i can still give bliss a run if it didnt die first. I chose 352 hp to get a lefties point.

Metagross - Generally i try to save metagross, so i can reflect boom, then go right to raikou/gar/zam for the sweep, since not many physical moves can ko them at that point. I might consider adding a random hp grass over it though just to try it out. The evs are to simply to take hits from all over with less damage. No specific reasons

Gar - The gar really needs ice punch, not really for dragons, but more for celebi, as well as the fast ko to dragons. If i try giga drain it would be over wisp. The evs are to get to a lefties point, so it can take some kind of hit before i wisp, kill, boom etc.

Lax - the evs are so it can do alot of damage to just about everything, while still walling quite well. I've used alot of lax evs in the past, and these are the boomlax evs & set i've come to like best. Return is just a personal preference over body slam, i like that extra damage boost.

to falkner - you understand the team, you understand why i have most of my pokes/evs/moves. Thankyou for your educated posts.
 
#16
i'll go through poke by poke

zam - fire punch is for jirachi/metagross. Without fire punch zam can barely touch both of them. Gyarados can be stopped by gar once, snorlax/meta can slow it down as well. Zam is probably the only poke there's absolutely nothing i will change on.


duggy - The evs just let it take extra hits, ice beam from bliss, as well as things such as hp grass/ice's from elec pokes

you're still going to get 2hko by icebeam and everything else without the evs

raikou - raikou's need at least 338 hp, and this one needs over 350 speed. I decided to add a little extra hp incase they get spikes on me, so i can still give bliss a run if it didnt die first. I chose 352 hp to get a lefties point.

you're not going to give any blissey a run with raikou without a lot of luck

Metagross - Generally i try to save metagross, so i can reflect boom, then go right to raikou/gar/zam for the sweep, since not many physical moves can ko them at that point. I might consider adding a random hp grass over it though just to try it out. The evs are to simply to take hits from all over with less damage. No specific reasons

i dont see how going boom on metagross is going to set up a sweep for raikou/gar/zam

Gar - The gar really needs ice punch, not really for dragons, but more for celebi, as well as the fast ko to dragons. If i try giga drain it would be over wisp. The evs are to get to a lefties point, so it can take some kind of hit before i wisp, kill, boom etc.

1) gar wont 2hko celebi with ice punch
2) celebi 1hko your gengar with psychic
3) take out some speed

Lax - the evs are so it can do alot of damage to just about everything, while still walling quite well. I've used alot of lax evs in the past, and these are the boomlax evs & set i've come to like best. Return is just a personal preference over body slam, i like that extra damage boost.

your only safe counter to a gyarados but the best you can do still selfdestruct. since its a suicide team you might think its worth it though i disagree

to falkner - you understand the team, you understand why i have most of my pokes/evs/moves. Thankyou for your educated posts.
and why dont u just get an endeavor sceptile to kill blissey? its much more effective than your CMzam
 

Lutra

All generations forever.
is a Community Leaderis a Community Contributor
RoA Co-Leader
#17
snookajam, first thing, endeavour sceptile does not counter Blissey at all unless you somehow find a way to outsmart your opponent. Blissey has softboiled and unlike Celebi, it is in no danger of getting critted. So it can basically keep softboiling and easily put the low pp of endeavour under pressure.

Secondly, I know Hey Oh might not seem like it but I think he is slightly above the level your aiming your comments at. They are not only completely obvious but also imply your complete lack of understanding of the advance metagame. Having a team of six individual pokemon which can counter everything is simply not possible. And I'm sure you know that. I hope you're messing around.

The Dugtrio is absolutely fine and it is of course the standard one. The very nature that it's a suicide team means that pokemon aren't going to stay in for very long. So that means adamant Dugtrio with evs to Survive JollyKou are sufficient because Kou is very unlikely to have time to stat up on the team. Example: Kou's not gonna waste calm minding when either the opponent is gonna attempt to kill it or have a chance of statusing it.

Anyway I don't mean to be harsh but posting your team here is a complete waste of time. It's fine as it is. The chances of someone finding a way to improve a team that they don't even know of a fairly good battler is extremely low. I'm guessing you just need reassurance. It's great as it is. You have thought about the evs, the counters, the abuse it does vs recovery and you have a balanced team. What more is there? You can over analyse a team to death but you're not gonna get too far with ways of improving it.
 

Heysup

I'm your rational mind.
is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Forum Moderator Alumnus
#18
Thats Lutras way of saying that he disagrees.

Lutra, you have to remember people put RMTS here because more people usually look at it(i think) and also, its entertaining, even if they dont get imrpovements.
 
#20
This team seems pretty solid to me, three booms will certainly help you keep the opponent from gaining momentum and remove specific obstacles for Raikou.

Lutra, being the top rated, best Adv. player ever might make it okay to be so smug and condescending, but probably not. I'll assume you are though, because otherwise you would be going waaaay overboard.
 

Heysup

I'm your rational mind.
is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Forum Moderator Alumnus
#21
looking back at this, how do you handle DDmence, or CBmence for that matter? Looks like it could pick apart this team after a DD.

Well assuming The Mence comes in after dugtrio kills blissey/lax/whatever special wall. He can just send out metagross or snorlax to blow it up, but a smart player would see this and suspect boom because thats the only way those pokemon can kill Mence, and then he could retreat and send out an appropriate pokemon to deal with the situation.

Mence cant come in on anything else without being blown up or ice punched.

Same with Gyarados except it can come in on a Calm mind from Zam, survive a psychic and DD, then preceed to hurt. Leaving their special wall unharmed. I personally dont think this is an issue, i would assume that zam has thunderpunch, and would not send out gyarados. All these problems are unlikely, i think the team is good as it is. Although i dislike Gengar with boom.
 
#22
Boom Gar+Duggy is suppose to trap a special wall and set up a special sweeper, so I would trade out either kou or Zam to something that would counter Mence then. A bulky water like vaporeon would mitigate the problem.
 
#25
I think he is refering to the fact that Skarm + Bliss + Clops + Pert would be almost an impossible unit for this team to break but then again, I like how he uses Zam to draw in Blissey so he can finish it with Dugtrio, and I also like lefties lax with fire blast for skarm. I do agree on HP Grass somewhere, perhaps even on raikou? I would think of it this way, you have 2 pretty good special attackers with ice punch, and one of them should be alive when blissey is dead thanks to dugtrio. So hp ice on raikou seems like it would be good for mence (but tbolt does a shitload anyway), breloom (not too worried about this, it cant switch into anything at all and raikou can block spore / leech seed anyway meaning all it can do is probably focus punch which you block by just attacking), and a few other pokemon like bulky grounds. But HP grass provides the same coverage on bulky grounds, mence and loom are already covered, but swampert isnt. Since swampert is a pretty common switch in to raikou it gives you the perfect chance to cm again. Usually they will switch out to scout for hp grass first meaning when you see a pert, you should cm (if you have the sub, attack if you dont). that basically means you could get 2 free calm minds and then a dead swampert. sweet deal if you ask me.

I like the heavy offense and suicide approach to the team.