1. Welcome to Smogon! Check out the Smogon Starters Hangout for everything you need to know about starting out in the community. Don't forget to introduce yourself in the Introduction and Hangout Thread, too!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

OU Sun Team

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Jstan, Aug 21, 2012.

  1. Jstan

    Jstan

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2012
    Messages:
    37
    This is my first Post on smogon and i wanted to get my new sun team rated and would like some criticisms.Thanks
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Ninetales (F) @ Leftovers Trait: Drought
    EVs: 252 HP / 120 SDef / 136 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Safeguard
    - Overheat
    - Power Swap


    This is my Weather inducer.This is a set that i found and thought it was really nice as i had never seen it before being used and it works wonders.
    Will-o-wisp is to cripple physical threats that don't have guts or pokes that i know would probably have a lum berry.Safeguard to prevent status like t-wave or toxic which give this set problems as the latter reduces ninetale's time that can be spend in the battlefield.Overheat + powerswap for pokes like volcarona that would otherwise wreck my team.



    Arcanine (M) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Close Combat
    - Flare Blitz
    - Wild Charge
    - ExtremeSpeed


    CB Arcanine is probably countered by chandelure which is rarely seen in OU

    so i gave it a try and it just wrecks with the right predictions.No water type wants to come in on a wild charge and close combat for heatran that would otherwise wall this set.Flare blitz is just insane under the sun Does a fuck tonne to gliscor and OHKOs if its and offensive variant.


    Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
    Trait: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 128 Def / 128 SDef / 252 HP
    Sassy Nature
    - Leech Seed
    - Thunder Wave
    - Spikes
    - Power Whip

    Trying this guy out instead of the virizion for overall better way to deal with rain and spikes and t-wave support is gonna help a lot.




    Donphan (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Ice Shard
    - Earthquake
    - Rapid Spin


    Using a Sun team means you often need a rapid spinner and donphan was the first that came into my mind ,it can take the edgequake combo which the rest of my team would get wrecked by and also lay down stealth rocks for the new Teriann forms even though Tornadus-T has regenerator it still has to switch out for its ability to activate.



    Shiftry (F) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 56 Atk / 252 SAtk / 200 Spd
    Rash Nature (+SAtk, -SDef)
    - GigaDrain/Leafstorm

    - Dark Pulse
    - Growth
    - Low Kick


    After you have seen the moveset it seems like it can also handle politoed and tyranitar which kind of makes virizion unnecessary but because shiftry is a lategame sweeper i dont want it to take prior damage.I am not sure if i should run gigadrain or leafstorm so please comment on that.Otherwise this set is easy to understand.Dark pulse for stab damage and the opportunity to fish for a flinch is always nice.


    Dragonite (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Multiscale
    EVs: 252 HP / 44 Atk / 212 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Dragon Claw
    - Dragon Dance
    - Fire Punch
    - Roost


    Here is the last member and another member that benefits from the removal of Stealth rocks and other weather as rain reduced damage output of firepunch.Bulky dragonite has always been my favorite sun team sweeper along with resto-chesto volcarona but unfortunately both of them are walled by heatran and i wanted to take just one and i took dragonite as it can deal with other dragons bar scarf haxorus.


    Here are common problems I face during a battle.


    -Deciding what to lead with, Donphan isn't a great lead and ninetales shouldn't be lost early game.


    -Cloyster after shell smash walks over my team.


    -Opposing dragonites [for this reason i was thinking of running scarfed haxorus]
  2. Jstan

    Jstan

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2012
    Messages:
    37
  3. ssraditz94

    ssraditz94

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2012
    Messages:
    47
    hmm. I really like this Physical oriented sun team. It screams originality at me. im thinking perhaps Leaf Storm for your 4th move. After a growth it will send your Sp.Atk back to nuetral which is really nice while not sacrificing the physical boost that Growth provides as well. another thing with this kind of build, especially against rain teams is keeping Ninetails alive. A scarf Tornadus-T can put huge holes in this team, so keeping your sun user alive takes even more priority on this team then many other sun teams. i think i may have a solution for this team that could help with the Therians as well as Cloyster

    Ferrothorn can wall every one of Standard Cloysters moves, as well as paralyze it. this strategy is also usable on Tornadus-T as well as leech seed stall to get some HP back. although you do have to be warry around Heat wave but if the rain is up, you can take at least 1 (maybe 2 but im not sure) I'm not saying to replace a specific poke , but you should find a way to implement it on your team as it can deal with the Cloyster weakness you listed above as well as Therian sweeps. Other than that good job on the team. i like to see some non-OU pokes get a chance to shine in OU.
  4. Jstan

    Jstan

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2012
    Messages:
    37
    Thanks for the advise although ferro in sun seems wierd it has a nice strategy that comes with it.
    i am planning on replacing the virizion for ferro shiftry does a decent job of outspeed politoed and tyranitar in their own weather and now i have a solid rain counter bar breloom but i guess i can work around that.
    Its gona be nice to get the flash fire boost on arcanine once in a while.
  5. Nova

    Nova Palisades
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    1,519
    Hi Jstan

    Welcome to Smogon and pretty solid Sun team you’ve built here that is also quite creative. It’s nice to see the likes of lower-tiered Pokemon such as Shiftry succeeding in OU. I do have some suggestions I’d like to offer to help improve your team. Looking at your team, it is threatened by a common threat to Sun teams which is Dragon types. Dragon Dance Dragonite and Salamence can really pack a punch after a boost, and your current Dragon-type resist in Ferrothorn gets destroyed by a Sun-boosted Fire Punch and Fire Blast respectively. Another threat to your team is Choice Specs Tornadus-T. In the rain, Tornadus-T outspeeds your entire team and can 2HKO or OHKO every member with some entry hazards. Every time this menace comes in and rain is up, you will be forced to sacrifice something. Making the change from Virizion to Ferrothorn opens you up a bit more to opposing weather teams as Politoed can beat Ferrothorn with Focus Blast and Tyranitar can do the same with Fire Blast, so rain is more likely to be up. Donphan’s Ice Shard can help a little against these threats, but without STAB and investment, it won’t be doing much especially to the bulky Tornadus-T. For these reasons, I suggest replacing Ferrothorn with a Weather Trapper Heatran with a moveset of Magma Storm / Sunny Day / Solarbeam / Hidden Power [Ice] and the item of choice being Air Balloon. This Heatran benefits your team in a number of ways. First, it provides you with a Dragon type check, beating them with Hidden Power Ice and dodging potential Earthquakes with Air Balloon. Secondly, he provides you with a Pokemon that can easily allow you to win the weather war. For example, against Politoed, Heatran can Magma Storm as the frog comes in to trap it. Then he proceeds to use Sunny Day to remove rain and weaken Politoed’s Water type attacks and then finish it off with Solarbeam, giving you a huge advantage throughout the remainder of the battle. The same can down Tyranitar, just be wary of Scarf versions of these weather inducers and the rare Tyranitar with Earthquake. Lastly, Heatran helps with your aforementioned weakness to Shell Smash Cloyster, as he can survive any of Cloyster’s attacks in the sun even at +2 and OHKO with Solarbeam.

    Now for some smaller changes. On Donphan, I suggest changing his EV spread to 252 HP / 80 Atk / 176 Def with an Impish nature. This spread sacrifices a bit of bulk for the ability to 2HKO Landorus with Ice Shard who could otherwise threaten your team. On Shiftry, I recommend using Giga Drain and not Leaf Storm. Giga Drain is useful in providing recovery to regain HP lost from Life Orb recoil and prevents your opponent from effectively killing Shiftry with smart switching as the the LO damage will be healed back. Giga Drain also does not get weaker with subsequent uses so Shiftry won’t be forced to switch out all the time. The damage output difference between Giga Drain and Leaf Storm will not be too noticeable after a Growth boost as Shiftry will be OHKO’ing most opponents anyways.

    Hope I helped and good luck with your team!


    Set:
    Show Hide
    Heatran (M) @ Air Balloon
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    -Magma Storm
    -Sunny Day
    -Solarbeam
    -Hidden Power [Ice]



    tl;dr
    Show Hide
    Ferrothorn ----> Weather Trapper Heatran
    Donphan's EV spread ----> 252 HP / 80 Atk / 176 Def with Impish Nature
    Giga Drain on Shiftry
  6. Jstan

    Jstan

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2012
    Messages:
    37
    thanks soo much for the detailed explanation.I will definitely try that heatran and the change on donphan. On shiftry giga drain is my current move and again thanks a lot.
  7. Shining_Latios

    Shining_Latios

    Joined:
    May 5, 2010
    Messages:
    1,425
    Hey I got your PM. First off, I recommend using a moveset of Flamethrower / Toxic / Protect / Substitute on Ninetales. Substitute blocks any status aimed at Ninetales and is also good for ToxicStalling with the use of Protect. Next up, I see Heatran as a nuisance to your team. The only things able to hit it are Arcanine and Donphan. Since a lot of sun teams carry Dugtrio though, Arcanine will not be able to Close Combat it. Instead, it will just get trapped and OHKO'd by Earthquake. Donphan, on the other hand, can not safely switch into it as it takes 63.54 - 75% from a Specially Defensive Heatran's Lava Plume under the sun. I suggest changing Arcanine into a Dugtrio.

    Reversal Dugtrio (open)

    [​IMG]
    Dugtrio @ Focus Sash
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Attack / 252 Speed
    Jolly Nature
    Moves:
    - Earthquake
    - Reversal
    - Stone Edge
    - Memento


    Dugtrio is able to trap and OHKO Heatran for you and you will not have to worry about not being able to hit it anymore. Since you have Stealth Rock on Donphan, you can make use of Stone Edge, which can be used to hit Flying-types for decent damage. Dugtrio can also help trap other weather inducers such as opposing Ninetales. It can also come in on Tyranitar and trap it. You have Focus Sash to survive any attack Tyranitar hits you with as long as you have kept hazards off the field. You can then OHKO Tyranitar with a base 200 power Reversal, OHKO'ing it and allowing you to win the weather war. Mememto is a filler, but it can be used to go straight to Shiftry to get a Swords Dance up. One set up turn can surprisingly make a big difference sometimes. Next up, I suggest using a Choice Band Dragonite over your current one.

    Choice Band Dragonite (open)

    [​IMG]
    Dragonite @ Choice Band
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Attack / 252 Speed
    Adamant Nature
    Moves:
    - Outrage
    - Extremespeed
    - Fire Punch
    - Earthquake


    Choice Band Dragonite serves as an immediate threat to foes on your team. Your other Dragonite lacked power. Dragonite is also able to revenge things with Extremespeed with massive power because you lack a Scarfer. Otherwise, your team could have troubles picking certain boosted threats off. CB Dragonite also hits hard right off the start without the need of any boosts. Be a bit careful though as you probably shouldn't be switching in Dragonite on attacks. You usually want to play a hit and run method with it as you need to try and keep it alive as much as you can as it provides you with massive power. Next up, I suggest using a Swords Dance Shiftry over your current set.

    Shiftry (open)

    [​IMG]
    Shiftry @ Life Orb
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Attack / 252 Speed
    Adamant Nature
    Moves:
    - Swords Dance
    - Sucker Punch
    - Seed Bomb
    - Nature Power


    Latias that carry HP Fire are quite an annoyance to your team. Shiftry can OHKO the Standard CM Latias with Sucker Punch after Stealth Rock. Even without rocks, it does 93.95 - 110.98%. SD Shiftry is also reliable if you lose the weather war as Sucker Punch adds some priority. SD Shiftry sweeps a lot of things late game with fantastic coverage. Another thing I would like to suggest is changing Ferrothorn's EVs to the standard 252 HP / 88 Defense / 168 Special Defense. My final word is to use Novaray's suggestion of using Magma Storm Heatran. Hope I helped and good luck.
  8. Jstan

    Jstan

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2012
    Messages:
    37
    I don't know how dugtrio is going to work out because it isn't a powerhouse but i guess making dragonite banded is gonna help solve dugtrio's lack of power.I have tried magma storm heatran and it works sometimes simply because specs politoed is a huge problem and i can't lead with it.And i still have a problem deciding a good lead.I am thinking of keeping ferrothorn instead of heatran.What do you guys think?and maybe scarfed latios instead of dragonite.
  9. bluewooper

    bluewooper

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2009
    Messages:
    154
    Hey JStan, this is a response your request for a rate my team. I really like hte use of some underrated threats on this team, suchas shiftry. I have a few small changes that I think can really benefit your team overall.

    This is a really really small change that will actually have an important impact on your team. You have an EV spread of Shiftry that when you have the Chlorophyll boost will help you tie positive natured 100's at a +1. However, if you simply add another 4 EV points in speed you will be able to increase your speed enough to outspeed these threats. this will give you no noticable loss in attack, and is well worth it in checking threats such as Dragon Dance Salamence. This should give you an EV spread of 52Atk/252SpA/204Spe; Rash.

    I would like to suggest to you a new ev spread for your Ninetales. I see you are running a strange EV spread with a lot of Speed investment. However, a look at the black and white OU speed tiers indicates that you really aren't outspeeding anything that Ninetales can really do much to. I think that you can afford to lose a lot of that speed in exchange for some more special bulk. I would recommend to you that you utilize an EV spread of 252Hp/240SpDef/16Spe; Calm. This allows you to outspeed Adamant Breloom (the techniloom that most battlers use now). you will also find that you will take special hits much more easily than you had. Additionally, I would like to take a further look at your moveset. You seem to be running an interesting moveset including Power Swap (which is actually really cool to have. However, you seem to be running Safeguard, which I do not recommend for you. Its use is incredibly situational, and you have better options. I would recommend that you use Toxic over Safeguard. This gives you a move that really screws over pokemon like Latios (a common switchin to Tales) and Rotom-W more than Will-O-Wisp.

    Finally, I would like to take a look at your Dragonite set. You seem to be running a Dragonite that is used for sweeping. However, you are running this set without a heavy investment in attack (which is what makes Dragonite stand out as a sweeper). I would recommend that you invest in a new EV spread that you can use to make Dragonite a lot more powerful. Also, I took look at the spread that you were running, and it doesn't appear that you are running anything dire at that huge speed investment. I would recommend to you an EV spread of 112Hp/252Atk/144Spe: Adamant. This grants you maximum attack, while still being able to outspeed positive natured 108's after a Dragon Dance. The rest of the EVs are shoved into HP, giving you some respectable bulk. You should definitely notice the power increase, especially at +1

    JStan, this is a really interesting team. I hope that you will implement my suggested changes and improve your team by doing so. Good luck.
  10. Jstan

    Jstan

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2012
    Messages:
    37
    Thanks i am gonna try these changes and see how they work.
  11. Jstan

    Jstan

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2012
    Messages:
    37

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)