OU Suspect Testing Round 1 Voter Identification and Suspect Nominations

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Chou Toshio

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Let's see, nominations.

Inconsistent: In out of the many battles I faced Inconsistent, I was only outright swept by it twice, and usually was able to beat the inconsistent user without losing any pokemon. While I don't believe it to be the most powerful strategy, I do feel that it is broken for being non-conducive to competitive play. While the Inconsistent user is on the field, it completely controls the flow of battle. Really, answers like Haze, PHazing or boost ignoring attacks are almost laughable measures that only partly scrap away from Inconsistent's influence on the flow of battle. The ability to control the game, and completely take the game out of the opponent's hands (and to a degree out of the user's hands as well), completely takes away from the competition-based-on-decision-making fundamental basis of competitive Pokemon. It essentially reduces the game of Pokemon to a dice roll. The ability to both A) Remove control of the game from the players and B) introduce a high degree of luck factors makes this like the problems associated with 4th Generation Wobbuffet and OHKO moves combined. I just do not see why this should be allowed in a game meant to be competitive.

Darkrai: Very accurate Sleep attached to 125 speed really is extremely hard to deal with, but the problem is compounded by Darkrai's ability to defeat almost all the many otherwise powerful counter-sleep measures available. The most pertinent of these is Magic Mirror. Espeon and Xatu especially are extremely capable at countering Breloom, and even enemies such as Venusaur, Roserade and other plant type users of Spore/Sleep Powder. These same pokemon, especially breloom, have a very difficult time with Toxic Orb Gliscor should it get the chance to active its orb before they come in. Espeon and Xatu are of course at Darkrai's mercy, since no Darkrai will put itself to sleep with Team Preview thrown in the mix. Gliscor has a great deal of trouble dealing with repeated Dark Pulses, especially when a smart Darkrai player will be able to pull off a Substitute or Nasty Plot as Gliscor protects. Furthermore, Ice Beam became more and more popular on Darkrai as the meta developed, making Gliscor and Breloom even shakier as Darkrai checks. Darkrai is not only a near-broken user of sleep, he's also perfectly positioned to defeat the best sleep checking pokemon, making even checking this beast a serious challenge. The new sleep functions make its Dark Void even more lethal.

Shaymin-S: At first I wanted to be a real supporter of Shaymin-S in the metagame--its capacity to abuse the Grass STAB that is otherwise very cumbersome in the OU metagame dominated by pokemon who resist Grass, was to me a welcome addition. However, as the game moved on, it became more and more apparent that Shaymin-S is a pokemon out of control. Most of its best checks are scarfed Steel types that (a) are hit for super effective damage by Earth Power, (b) have a very hard time doing any sort of memorable damage to the next switch in (c) are screwed in a metagame with Nattorei, Magnezone and Wobbuffet. Meanwhile, Shaymin-S can run around the metagame outspeeding almost everything and having the freedom and leisure to throw out its powerful attacks or seed/subbing strategy at will. Bottom-line: Shaymin-S will almost always hurt the enemy far more than its checks could hope to hurt shaymin's own team.

Latios: Latios is actually in a very similar boat to Shaymin-S. Thanks to its typing and ability, it had a very easy time finding opportunities to switch in and deal out huge amounts of damage. While these opportunities were far fewer than Shaymin-S' and it wasn't going to be sweeping whole teams, the damage output was of a whole different class. Latios was more than capable of half-destroying a steel type with Specs Draco Meteor each time it came in, so that the next time it would full destroy the steel type, ridding the enemy of critical defensive resources and freeing up all sorts of potential sweeps. Aside from Blissey, who always had to worry about Trick or even Psycho Shock, there really was nothing you could switch into an incoming Latios because the pokemon that "resisted" its attacks were nearly blown away by Draco Meteor and were completely blown away by Surf / HP Fire. Let me just say that this metagame is far more vulnerable to Latios than last Gen's OU. The prevalence of Toxic-Orb Gliscor, Nattorei, Balloon Dory and any number of new powerful setup threats has made trying ScarfTyranitar or CB Scizor just to take out Latios much greater potential liabilities than they were last generation. In a metagame without Darkrai, Latios would be even more recluse. The power gap between it and Latias, and the speed gap between it and Sazandora, are really to big to ignore.

Manaphy: I can understand those players who would rather see Politoed or Drizzle banned, but frankly I want Rain to stay in this metagame if possible. I believe Rain has made the game much more multi-dimensional than the 4th Generation metagame's continuous sand. I have always been bothered by our limitation to pointing out negatives in broken, without being able to discuss the positives. I believe Drizzle Politoed to be a positive influence on the shape and dynammic of OU play, and would like to see how it plays without Manaphy. That said, Manaphy in the rain is a serious problem. Due to its lack of common weaknesses, excellent defensive stats and speed, Manaphy is a tremendously powerful setup platform, and +3 SpA with immunity to status-- even without HydroRest that is a threat that is far too overpowered. Manaphy almost requires that Nattorei be on almost every team, because the offensive combination of Water / Ice / Grass puts everything else at its mercy. Even Nattorei has a hard time standing up to Manaphy's rain boosted Tail Glow boosted attacks, especially should it be forced to carry Shed Shell lest it be eliminated by Magnezone (a fairly competent partner for Manaphy on a rain team from battles I've played). Manaphy's combination of power, bulk and speed makes it an arguably far more lethal sweeper in 5th Gen than Yache Chomp was in 4th Gen. In a metagame without Shaymin-S, it is completely unacceptable.

Doryuuzu: I honestly do not believe this pokemon should be a highly controversial nomination. It completely changes the speed dynamic of OU. While rain may be powerful, Tyranitar and Hippo's superiority as individual pokemon (as well as the very specialized build of rain teams) will always leave sand as the "default" weather (as many non-rain teams will pack TTar/Hippo just to keep rain at bay). In the sand, Dory is broken-- it completely destroys the balance of speed in the game. Being able to outrun every single commonly scarfed pokemon is ridiculous, but being able to switch attacks, use Swords Dance and setup behind a 1 turn immunity to your biggest weakness really take it over the top. Keep in mind that with Balloon, Doryuuzu resists Stealth Rock, is immune to Sand, Spikes, Toxic Spikes and Thunderwave. Remember how good Flygon was last generation simply for possessing those same resilient qualities? Well, here we have a Flygon capable of outrunning every scarf pokemon, switch between attacks at will, and Swords Dance from 135 base attack while possessing steel-type resistances and defensive stats almost on par with Machamp. Did I miss the memo where something like this suddenly became acceptable? Also, while it should definitely be considered independently as well, should Drizzle be banned, Doryuuzu should be instantly banned alongside it.

Deoxys-A: Let me start by saying that I have almost never lost a single pokemon to Deoxys-A that I was not intending to sacrifice. Because of its frailty, people tend to play extremely predictably with Deo-A, letting you bring in a scarf user to finish it with relative safety. That said-- this is only because people are playing predictably. In other words, the better at predicting and risk-taking players get (with experience) the more lethal Deoxys-A will become. I noted as I played that even as I beat Deoxys, had the player known what I was going to do and predicted accurately (not hard with Team Preview, they just lacked the balls to risk-take) I could have easily been out half a team. To me, that is not acceptable. Just because the players are not currently good enough to make it broken, doesn't mean it isn't broken. What playing Deo-A taught me was that should player be willing to gamble and play ballsy, the game would be dropped to a crapshoot of 50-50 predictions based on whether or not you would switch or attack. To me, too many of these 50-50 prediction wars are not healthy for the meta, since prediction wars are not much better than dice rolls when it comes to luck. Therefore, I would like to say that Deo-A is not only potentially overpowered, but also non-conducive to consistent competitive play.

Wobbuffet: Essentially losing the freedom to check enemies with Scarf Users is a real problem, and I would say that pokemon like Latios, Darkrai and Shaymin-S would all have been much easier to handle if they were not often paired with Wobbuffet. Even with them gone though, pokemon like Latias, Terrakion and Garchomp will still become needlessly difficult to check simply because of the inability to freely use scarf users. The fact that you can "throw in Wobb to kill scarfers" of almost any variety is to me, broken beyond something like Magnezone, where a player has to sacrifice a team slot to take out a very select group of targets.
 
Aside from my previous nomination i agree with what chou toshio said about Doryuzuu.
Yes you can say its mediocre but the fact that Dory change the WHOLE speed tier of the overused metagame is too much.

It can be countered but without those rather easy to beat counter he packs a huge punch. So what if its useless outside sand ? 88 speed is decent enough hes quite bulky to take some punch and its not easy to take out sand after all.

Speed has always been an integral part in keeping the game around and xhange speed tier that previously shown the face of metagame. Dory not only break it, Burn it to cinders, and eat it, he has massive power and make things like priority from useful to NEAR MUST HAVE and base 135 and higher scarf from situational into USEFUL and making ridiculous pokemon like azumarill and CN Scarfgold and nintales more plausible than it should be. Its not funny seeing the speed tier have dory on the sand on top when compared to most used commonly used pokemon even with scarf.
And your logic to stop sweeper by para dont work here. He can only be paraed by Stun spore from eru which no only can miss can leave eru crippled from doing more annoyment later.

Yes this one mole probably impact the metagame and change it even more than the banning of two dragons and mence got outrage combined. It make many people (me included) hestitate to use pokemon with high speed fragile defenses which is common back in last gen and more unreliable than before (imagine starmie) and making the whole metagame more centered aroud sweeper with bulk to survive and Rain more useful than ever (using SS is now risky since they also have dory)

I love dory and many of us certainly do but his influent is probably too much to be handled even by this metagame standard and who that doesnt agree with me that he DO become this gens garchomp eat their word. Many DO say he did become this gens garchomp
 
Didn't make it past the 1400 mark mainly due to having the most god awful luck these past two weeks but I'll give a shot at nominations.

Shaymin-S - Seed Flare is a very difficult move to switch into considering how powerful it is, backed up with the -2 Sp.Def drop it gets a majority of the time. Air Slash is great for finishing things off after a drop, plus more than half the time it flinches unless the target is faster, but few things outside of Scarf users outspeed it. It is capable of beating most of its checks into submission with the combination of Seed Flare and Air Slash, though Earth Power, Substitute, Leech Seed, and Hidden Power (Ice or Fire) also take out potential switch-ins.

Darkrai - The main thing which breaks Darkrai is Dark Void. Not only does it essentially remove a pokemon completely from play due to the new Sleep mechanics, it also gives it a free opportunity to set up Substitute, or Nasty Plot. It is nearly impossible to check Darkrai without sacrificing something else to Dark Void since you obviously don't want your Roopushin, Hitmontop, or whatever sent to Sleep before you can take it down. If Sleep were banned this gen a retest might be in order since without Dark Void it just becomes a fast Nasty Plot sweeper, though unless that ever happens it shouldn't be in OU.

Deoxys-A - This thing just hits too hard, too fast, and it has a huge movepool also. Psycho Boost does insane amount of damage to pretty much everything that doesn't resist it, and even some things that do resist it can't take another hit. Extremespeed also allows it to take out weak Scarf and priority users which might try to stop it. Many matches have been decided by Extremespeed speed ties alone. Deoxys-N might also be broken for the same reasons, though the power drop is actually pretty signicant, (+Spe nature doesn't even hit as hard as Adamant Metagross,) therefore it might require testing without Deoxys-A.

Doryuuzu - With 604 Speed and 369 Attack in the sand it can hit hard and fast, plus its Attack doubles to 738 in just once turn of set up. Balloon makes it hard to revenge kill, and sometimes you end up having to sacrifice something just to pop its Balloon. While it has hard counters, it still destroys everything late game when they are removed or weakened. It also KOs almost every Ghost type in the game after a Swords Dance making it difficult to block Rapid Spin if it carries it. Doryuuzu is pretty controversial and therefore deserves a test, though I wouldn't place it in the same leauge as the above three.

Drizzle - Rain is probably the single most overcentralized play style thus far in gen 5. It has gotten to the point of being rediculous since everything on the team is capable of outspeeding almost everything, including fast Scarfers, and the boost to Water attacks on top of that makes it too powerful. While we could ban Manaphy, Kingdra, Kabutops, etc, it is much simpler to get rid of Drizzle since it almost single handedly shapes the metagame at this point.

Inconsistent - This ability is completely luck based. Between Substitute and Protect, any user of the ability is very likely to get the boosts they need, and often times when they do they will sweep. It is rediculous how easily people can sweep with this, not to mention there are no absolute ways to stop it. Some people have suggested Unaware users, though they are all vulnerable to Toxic. Phazing can miss if it has Evasion boosts. It also doesn't help that stat drops are +1 while boosts are +2. This ability pretty much stops the battle in progress and flips a coin, if heads the Inconsistent user wins the match, if tails the opponent loses their Inconsistent user. I may be exaggerating a bit, though more often than not when Octillery takes out something it usually proceeds to sweep the whole team in my experience. We created the OHKO and Evasion clauses to minimize luck in the metagame, and I believe this falls under the same category as it is just as bad, if not worse. We may also consider adding it under the Evasion clause as some users have suggested.

Latios - Latios' infamous Specs Draco Meteor has only gotten worse this gen. Blissey is nowhere to be seen outside of the occasional stall team this gen, and even then it still has to deal with Trick or Psycho Shock. Scizor is less common in this metagame since there are a larger number of things to check him, so Tyranitar is one of the only things which can switch in without being destroyed, but even then he takes a lot and runs the risk of getting hit by Surf. Nattorei can switch in fairly well, though it has caused Latios to run Hidden Power Fire more often which also makes Scizor more risky to use against it. Since its old checks have gotten less common and it didn't gain many new ones it seems like it should still probably be Uber since it is so hard to switch into and in many cases it guarentees a kill.
 
Confirming as Arc Tech (bet nobody expected that)

Nominations:

Inconsistent: The epitome of luck, and always gives a net boost and is exceedingly hard to check effectively let alone counter.

Skymin: The queen of hax (Inconsistent is now king). Base 120 stab moves with a 80% chance cut halve the opponents special defense means that most either have to switch again or die, 60% flinchhax lets it gets its checks in range to die from another move, excellent coverage options (mainly earth power and hp fire for the few steels who aren't weak to earth power), and subseed, which beats most of its offensive sets' conventional counters.

Sleep Moves: They are essentially a OHKO, especially with the new mechanics, plus a support wobbuffet in move form (guarantees a free set up).

Darkrai: Only if sleep moves don't get banned.

Sand Veil/Snow Cloak: All users of these now have alternate abilities, ban under evasion clause.

Hax items (Quick claw, Focus band, Brightpowder): All incorporate luck into the game and have no purpose other than to invoke luck.
 
I do NOT have the requirements to vote or anything, but I want to share my opinion with you. I've been battling in DW OU, so... anyways:

Shadow Tag: This log is gonna explain everything.

Rotom-W vs Gochiruzeru
Gochi flashes 6 times, I can't switch out or hit her.
Gochi switches to Shandy's pre-evolution.
I STILL cannot hit anything and I am STILL trapped.
Shandy's pre-evo Memento's.
Rotom-W is now at -2 SpA / -6 Accuracy
They send out Shandy.
Shandy Calm Minds 6 times
Shandy Acid Armors 6 times
Flamethrower + Shadow Ball = gg, even if resisted by my Ttar.

Inconsistent: Just like everybody else said: it takes luck to win. That's bullshit.

Sand Veil/Snow Cloak: SpecsJolteon used Shadow Ball! It missed! Mamoswine used Earthquake! Jolteon fainted!

Drizzle: Rain. That's all. RAIN.

Darkrai: I've been trying him with a DarkVoid/Substitute Lead set. I cannot deny the fact that it is cheap and overpowered. Dark Void that kills Sashes, Substitute on the switch then rape with DarkPulse/FocusBlast.

Deoxys-A/S/N: Both A and N have attacking stats and speed way to high. They ALL carry Sashes, so priority is only a nuisance on the second hit. Deoxys-S is just an annoying lead: Bulky and Fast. They always have the time to set up at least Stealth Rock. Deoxys-D can also be annoying... But I don't think it's broken.

Skymin: What everyone else said pretty much.

Manaphy: It doesn't need rain to be deadly. Tail Glow is an excellent move and it has an excellent typing. Hydration is only the icing on the cake.

Doryuuzu: Faster than ScarfSkymin when he's in the sand. Hits like a Salamence. Has Swords Dance. Has Stealth Rock resistance. Balloon prevents him from being revenge killed by Ditto.
 

UltiMario

Out of Obscurity
is a Pokemon Researcher
Eh. It's too bad I only managed to build a good team in the middle of the day yesterday. Oh well, I'll toss brief noms out then.

Darkrai- As it did in Gen IV, Dark Void pushes Darkrai over the limit. Unlike Breloom, Darkrai has the speed and power needed to take on a huge chunk of a team after he has slept his victim. The combination of that power, his decent defenses in order to take priority, the increased specialization in order to counter him, and the ability to negate any switch-in, and with the sleep buff, negate that member of the team for virtually the rest of the game makes Darkrai just too powerful.

Skymin- In a movepool sense, Skymin is the Hippowdon of Ubers. It has exactly what it needs to push itself through the metagame, and just about nothing more. It can tear apart anything type-wise with Seed Flare/Earth Power/Air Slash/HP Fire, or go and take on Blissey and others with Subseed. 60% Flinch, Huge speed and power, and exactly the movepool it needs to have virtually nothing that can safely switch in to it until you know its set.

Deoxys-A- Deo-A is simple. Huge amount of power, huge amount of speed, dies to most everything... except Roob and Breloom Mach Punches, surprisingly. Anyways, Deo-A is a basic formula that works very well. Huge power and speed give it the ability to outspeed a large amount of Choice Scarfers and other various +1 Speed things, and OHKO them, as well as OHKOing a huge amount of walls. I'd put Deo-N in this category too, but I've never seen one used, nor have I used one, so I cannot judge that.

Latios- Latios has too much power and too much of a diverse movepool. There is no real Pokemon you can put on a team and say "Now I don't really have to worry about Latios as much anymore". Trick choice sets ruin Blissey, and offensive sets ruin everything else. Latios is sort of borderline IMO, but it really pushes into Uber without anything to use to really stop it. A lot of reliable Steel walls are ruined by boosted coverage moves or HP Fire, and beyond those, nothing can really keep Latios in check.

I was considering nominating Politoed for Rain, but I think we should really be looking at the big superpowers and ban them first and then look at weather afterward to make sure we're looking at weather in a stable metagame, it really wouldn't be fair otherwise.
 
Confirming as Lucifer.

Everybody else nominated all the mons that I wanted to, for the same reasons too. Basically I agree with all of the reasons previously posted for the nomination of Shaymin-S, Darkrai, Manaphy, and inconsistant.
 

cosmicexplorer

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Nominations:
Darkrai: Dark Void, with the new sleep mechanics, on a pokemon this fast, is overwhelmingly powerful. With a scarf, it outspeeds anything not boosting its speed and, for all intents and purposes, leaves them useless for the rest of the match. And because of its immense speed, it doesn't even need to use a scarf to get off Dark Void, as it outspeeds a huge portion of the metagame anyway. With its powerful special attack, it can beat all of the common counters to sleep moves and just continue to sweep. With access to Nasty Plot and the almost unresisted Dark/Fighting coverage, Darkrai can KO a huge majority of the metagame by itself, while outspeeding everything in common usage but Shaymin-S, making a strong priority attack almost mandatory in order to stop its rampage. But it can even use Substitute to mitigate that. Darkrai's ability to immediately disable a member of the opposing team and its overwhelming Speed and Special Attack, coupled with its not-so-terrible defenses, make it simply too powerful for OU.

Shaymin-S: Shaymin-S is the fastest pokemon in common use right now, and with access to a 60% flinching move and a 120 BP STAB move coming off of 120 Special Attack, it makes good use of that speed. It's also deceptively bulky, able to take stuff like a Scarfchomp Outrage and KO back with Seed Flare. But what makes it too powerful for OU is Seed Flare's ability to lower Special Defense, which allows Shaymin to flinch its switch-ins to death quite easily. Nattorei, which is one of the surest switch-ins, is 2/3HKOed with Air Slash after switching into a Seed Flare, and with Air Slash's 60% flinch chance, it's very unlikely that it'll be able to do anything back to Skymin. Shaymin-S can even get past even Steel-types, which resist both of its STAB moves, with Earth Power. Shaymin simply outspeeds too many pokemon and is too powerful, especially with Seed Flare halving opponents' special defense and Air Slash's flinch chance, to reasonably stay in OU.

Manaphy: Rain has been argued as being too powerful in itself; I'm not sure whether that's true or not, but it's easy to see that Manaphy is a huge part of rain teams' success. The ability to HydraRest, as well as boost its special Attack to 2.5 times its normal power in a single turn, when coupled with Manaphy's excellent defenses and Water typing, makes it a formidable force. Even without the rain, Manaphy's power is incredible; the boosted Tail Glow and incredible bulk, along with good speed, is quite simply overpowering. Manaphy can even run a bulky Calm Mind set, which can survive a +2 Doryuuzu's Earthquake and KO back with Surf. Manaphy is too bulky and hits too hard; even without rain support, it's simply too good for OU play.

Doryuuzu: 135 base Attack. Base 88 Speed that doubles in a sandstorm. Access to Swords Dance and Rapid Spin, as well as STAB Earthquake. In a word, Doryuuzu is formidable. Doryuuzu outspeeds even scarfers in the sand, and has the ability to boost up while retaining good defenses and an excellent Steel typing. Although it may have weaknesses to priority attacks such as Mach Punch and is susceptible to Hippowdon's Earthquake, it's able to get past either of those with a Balloon or a Chople Berry. There are very few ways to stop it outside of Gliscor, and it's quite easy for it to sweep a team. It even gets Rapid Spin to clear hazards, while being immune to Toxic Spikes and 4x resisting SR. It's quite clearly overpowering the metagame, and the only reason it's not on every team is because every team has at least one pokemon that can shakily counter it or uses rain. Doryuuzu is absolutely too powerful for OU.

Inconsistent: With the ability to increase Evasion, and any other stat, while the pokemon is Substitute+Protect stalling is absolutely ridiculous. Once it gets an Evasion boost, it's almost always game over, and with the +2/-1 boosts it gives, the net effect is positive, so that it'll retain those boosts more likely than not. With a simple moveset of Substitute/Protect/Surf/Toxic, an Octillery can sweep teams while the opposing player just watches helplessly. And any Inconsistent pokemon can do this; once the pokemon gets Evasion boosts, or even enough Speed and attacking boosts, it just destroys opposing teams, even boosting while KOing opposing pokemon. It's incredibly difficult, nigh impossible to stop unless the Inconsistent user is very unlucky. It's absolutely too powerful for OU.

Deoxys/Deoxys-A: It has dual 180 base attacking stats and 150 base Speed. With a Life Orb, it can 2HKO the majority of the metagame, and OHKO quite a bit. Its extreme frailty is an afterthought when it possesses the ability to tear apart any switch-in, and it even gets ExtremeSpeed, to take out priority users. Psycho Boost by itself OHKOs a huge number of pokemon, and when coupled with Superpower, makes it almost impossible to switch into. It outspeeds every non-boosted pokemon in the game besides its own Speed Forme, and has the ability to OHKO a huge amount of pokemon. Deoxys is just a Deoxys-A that can take a lot more priority attacks, at the expense of a little power. Both of them are simply too fast and too powerful for OU.

EDIT: I'd also like to nominate Wobbuffet. It pretty much guarantees the removal of any scarfer, and quite a few band/specs mons too. It's not setup bait either due to Encore, and can actually setup other pokemon without the set-upper taking any damage at all due to Shadow Tag+Encore. It's the guaranteed removal of almost any Choiced pokemon that makes Wobbuffet overpowered.
 
Nominations

Inconsistent: Inconsistent is not competitive by any means, and has many people have already said, takes all control of the game out of both players' hands. If an Inconsistent user gets a speed or evasion boost after the first Protect, the other player is fighting an uphill battle for the rest of the match and does not have a very good chance of winning. Skill is not a factor in this, and specific counters to it are not guaranteed to work and are also mostly ineffective against the rest of the metagame.

Shaymin-S: Shaymin is really just broken. It's hard to describe it as anything but. Its stats and offensive typing are excellent, and Serene Grace is ludicrous. Many pokemon that could normally counter it can't because of that 68% chance of being hit by a base 120 STAB move while simultaneously taking a harsh Sp.D drop, while others fall to the 57% chance of being flinched, which can put them into Seed Flare KO range or give Skymin the turn of Leftovers and Leech Seed recovery it needs in order to set up another sub. These two moves together are all Skymin needs, as they are only resisted by Heatran, Bronzong, and Skarmory, all of whom can also be dealt with by Earth Power and HP Fire if Skymin decides not to run Sub and Leech Seed. It's the difficulty of switching into Skymin and then killing it that makes it too much.

Deoxys-A / Deoxys-N: Both are pretty much uncounterable, Deoxys-A in particular. An LO-boosted base 140 STAB coming off 180 Sp.A is going to OHKO anything that doesn't resist it (and some things that do), and its massive movepool allows it to deal with anything else, with Superpower for Blissey, Nattorei, Tyranitar, and Darkrai, as well as Extremespeed to bypass priority and pick off weaken sweepers. Deoxys-N isn't as bad, but the better "bulk" allows it to take random weak priority, and it can still deal far too much damage.

Darkrai: Dark Void is what pushes this over the edge. An almost guaranteed free kill, perhaps more if the opponent can be forced to sacrifice their sleep fodder, coupled with excellent Sp.A and speed stats, near-perfect neutral coverage with just two moves, and Nasty Plot make this too much for OU to handle. Its bulk is also an issue, as it can survive a STAB Mach Punch off of base 140 attack, which makes it difficult to revenge kill.
 
Terrible luck the past 2 days dropped me out of the voting list :(

Anyways my nomination:


Inconsistent - It removes any facet of skill in the game. With Substitute and protect the user will eventually get the boosts they need. After an evasion and speed boost its pretty much gg.There is no way to handle it without specializing your entire team to defeating it, which is way to centralized. Relying on crits is the only way to win after a few defense boosts, it makes the metagame completely unplayable and is the only completely broken thing this round.
 
The fact remains that inconsistent ISNT broken it takes up the luck for winning like OHKO moves and evasion clause which is why it must be banned. At least for me.
 
Although I did not maintain 1400 points, I do want to contribute.

By BAN I mean either Ubers or banned.

My candidates:

Inconsistent: I really hate this. Although I have a Politoed with Perish Song to not keep it in play for too long and possibly die, if it gets +4 in SpA in the turns it does have, then I'm dead anyway. It's all big IFs, but IF they happen, you're doomed. I really think Inconsistent takes the game out of the players hands and has the potential to be uncontrollably powerful. But this is all luck-based and not skill-related. I mean, wow, you use substitute and Protect to stall me out and get free stat boosts that eventually kill me and make me impossible to hit you.

My judgment: BAN.

Manaphy: This should also get banned with priority. It is just too overpowered. Not only Tail Glow makes it very good, its 100 overall stats, combined with 100% healing without drawback, combined with excellent Water typing which moves are even further boosted by rain, this little fucker is pretty much out of control in the OU enviroment. There is no need to ban Drizzle imo, but Manaphy does. I previously though Manaphy would suck in OU, but it's clearly the total opposite of underpowered.

My judgment: BAN.

Darkrai: An 80% accurate sleep move combined with a Sash-breaking ability in Bad Dreams with 125 base speed, a +2 boosting move and perfect coverage? Darkrai shouldn;t have been OU in the first place. If anyone would read that sentence with a bit knowledge of the metagame, they wouldn't even think of it being anywhere but Ubers. Especially with the new Sleep mechanics, which makes switching a hard option, Darkrai is allowd to set-up, kill switch-ins or boost further to OHKO even Blissey and Evo-stone Chansey. It's then only countered by +1 Roobushin's Mach Punch, which is OHKO'd by Focus Blast or Scarf Gengar, which has a chance to miss.

Shaymin-S: 127 base speed is pretty good. 120 base SpA is also kinda neat. A STAB flinching move from a Serene Grace user is just not fun anymore. But that's not all... A 120 BP STAB Grass move which lowers SpD by 2 stages 80% of the time is just not normal. No further comments needed imo.

My judgment: BAN.

Doryuuzu: A Pokemon that can reach 604 speed in sandstorm as well as 135 base Attack... It all sounds incredible.. But it's Steel typing makes it pretty frail to Mach Punch and Vacuum Wave. It also gets SD and Rapid Spin. But why use Rapid spin on something that already lacks excellent coverage. It's perfectly counterable by not only fighting priority, also bulky Pokemon can easily take hits from it. Doryuuzu, Gliscor, Bronzong and more can take it on pretty well.

My judgment: No ban (yet).

Latios: It may be extremely powerful and all, and a Specsed STAB Draco Meteor is pretty powerful.. But it's perfectly counterable. Nattorei for example. Kojondo's U-Turn, and more U-turners. Doryuuzu (lol) counters it too.

My judgment: No ban (yet).

Latias: It can take a lot of roles. But it's by far not as powerful as Latios and makes it even easier to counter than it's big blue brother.

My judgment: No ban at all.

Wobbufet: Lol... Shadow Tag may be very good and all... but it's delicious set-up bait. After setting up, just OHKO it and bye-bye Wobby. Ok, walls fall to it, but then just revenge it. there are more wall-breakers out there that don't even have Shadow Tag or anything like it.

My judgment: No ban.
 
I'm CaliPride.

I will nominate:

Incosistent- It's stupid and doesn't encourage skill. Already explained imo.

Deoxys-a- The strongest Pokemon I've ever faced, and Espeed was really money for me. I could pretty much rely on it to get me out of a lot of tough places.

Shaymin-s - It's very good at everything. Scarfed Revenge killing is incredibly effective. Sub Seeding is very effective. If it gets a Substitute, you're going to be in for a long day.

Doryuuzu
- These things are very very hard to beat short of priority or other weather. It's like Metagross but instead of having to agility, it already gets one and can Swords Dance

Drizzle - when something like this focuses the metagame so much, it has to go imo. A once scoffed upon strategy is now very dominant and is one of the 1st things any team must make sure is covered.
 
I said I'd edit anything into my other post, but I want to bring this to other people's attention, which isn't likely to happen if I just make an edit. I'll delete this post and put it in my other if necessary.

Drought
Initially I said this should wait until the next round of suspect testing. However, after using sun on an alt of mine I definitely want to at least put it up for voting this round.

Sun is absolutely incredible, especially with the buff that Growth got this generation. If you can keep sun up, Chlorophyll sweepers become incredibly dangerous, especially Venusaur and Doreida, who can both abuse their ridiculously fast Sleep Powder to set up free Growths or Butterfly Dances. And once they're set up, they have incredibly powerful moves at their disposal, with things like Petal Dance, Giga Drain which essentially cancels out LO recoil, and "STAB" HP Fire.

This isn't even the most dangerous part of Sun. One of the biggest threats under Sun is that Dragons get STAB on Fire moves. This means not only will most Dragons' Fire Blasts be hurting a hell of a lot more than usual, but also ones like Garchomp and Latios who normally have to rely on other moves to get their coverage suddenly also have Fire STAB. Garchomp with a moveset of SD/Outrage/EQ/Fire Fang gets STAB on every single one of it's moves, and now the ever so popular Balloon Steels are no longer safe from SE Stab moves coming from Chomp. Latios can run HP Fire and get the amazing Dragon-Fire coverage it has always wished for.

Now realize that Rain, the biggest check Sun has in the current metagame is (from the looks of other nominations) about to get the banhammer. I don't know if this nomination will be accepted, or if it is if anyone will vote to ban it, but when Drizzle is gone, Drought will become an immensely threatening presence in the metagame.
 

zapzap29

The obssessive man of passion
Yo yo, I am zapzap29.

And my nominations are

Shaymin-S - I think that Shaymin-S should be voted uber due to it's high speed, special attack stat, versatility, and ability. Shaymin-S can outspeed almost everything in the standard metagame bar weather. Even then, Shaymin can outspeed weather abusers with a choice scarf. Also, it's high special attack stat and ability guarantee that Shaymin-S can sweep consistently and even break down walls that would normally stop Shaymin-S. 60% chance of flinch and Sp. Def drop usually lets Shaymin-S cripple or outright destroy other pokemon. I think that it fits the Uber characteristics under Offensive and Support.

Deoxys A, N, S- I'm nominating these Deoxys forms because of their high special attack stats, ridiculous speed, and huge movepool. Deoxys A and N have ridiculous attacking stats and speed. These characteristics in tandem with it's huge movepool makes Deoxys a major threat that can easily sweep through teams or break walls. Due to it's mixed attacking nature, Deoxys can easily break through dedicated walls or finish off weakened teams. No single pokemon can really deal with Deoxys. Also, all forms can easily set up multiple layers of hazards. When used as a lead, Deoxys is always guaranteed at least 2 layers of hazards unless the opponent has either a sandstorm or hail inducer. Even then, Deoxys can kill the opponent's lead poke and then proceed to set up hazards. This pokemon can perform a large variety of functions that are all equally useful to the game. Deoxys does not take much skill to use either as one can just send it in and cripple/kill just about anything. Nominating under Offensive and Support characteristics.

Darkrai- I believe Darkrai should be considered uber for similar reasons that I have nominated Deoxys and Shaymin. Darkrai has speed, a great attacking stat, and a reliable sleep inducing move to boot. Darkrai will consistently put at least one pokemon to sleep per match and with the new sleep mechanics this can decide the match. Also, Deoxys can still function as a sweeper due to it's access to nasty plot and a large movepool. Darkrai is also relatively unpredictable because of it's large variety of sets. Also, Darkrai is also bulky enough to take at least one unresisted hit from most pokemon. Darkrai will be able to consistently sweep or break at least one pokemon. Nominating under Offensive characteristic.

Manaphy- Manaphy is pretty broken due to it's access to boosting moves and it's ability. Manaphy in rain is absolutely broken as it can boost repeatedly and then rest off all of the damage it's taken. Being unable to status it makes it impossible to stall out. Also, Manaphy is bulky enough to take repeated hits from the vast majority of the metagame. While not as unpredictable as the other suspects I've mentioned Manaphy is very consistent. Proof that Manaphy is broken can be seen in the fact that non rain teams can also abuse Manaphy. Nominating it under the offensive characteristic.

Inconsistent- This ability needs to be banned ASAP. It throws skill out the window and consistently bases the game around itself. Making the game luck based is not conducive to a competitive metagame.

That's all for the things I think need to banned. Here are my opinions on some other subjects.

Drizzle- I don't think Drizzle it's honestly that broken. Rain teams can usually be stopped by a Natto-Buru defensive core and other weather inducers are pretty common. I think we should test some more before we ban an entire style of play before it's even 3 months old.

Wobbuffet- Having played with and against Wobbuffet, I can say that Wobbuffet is honestly not that broken. Wobbuffet gets absolutely wrecked by taunt and status conditions such as burn or toxic. Most dedicated walls carry some form of status or phazing method that renders Wobbuffet useless. On the other side of things Wobbuffet is capable of taking out set up sweepers but with the power creep this generation Wobbuffet usually ends up taking out one sweeper and then becoming death fodder.I don't see the point in banning a pokemon that sees minimal use and isn't that broken anymore.

Doryuuzu- Doryuuzu isn't that broken outside of Sandstorm. It also has plenty of checks and counters that can deal with it even in sandstorm. Nattorei and Gliscor can both deal with Doryuuzu because Doryuuzu can't touch OHKO either of them even with +2 attack. Gliscor is 2hko'd after +4. Dory also has other checks and counters such as roobushin, quagsire, swampert, and suicune. Priority fighting users also deal with Doryuuzu quite nicely. It should also be taken into consideration that Weather makes up like 70% of the metagame right now. Doryuuzu becomes worthless when not in sandstorm.

And that's all for now. I apologize if this is too long.
 
I said I'd edit anything into my other post, but I want to bring this to other people's attention, which isn't likely to happen if I just make an edit. I'll delete this post and put it in my other if necessary.

Drought
Initially I said this should wait until the next round of suspect testing. However, after using sun on an alt of mine I definitely want to at least put it up for voting this round.

Sun is absolutely incredible, especially with the buff that Growth got this generation. If you can keep sun up, Chlorophyll sweepers become incredibly dangerous, especially Venusaur and Doreida, who can both abuse their ridiculously fast Sleep Powder to set up free Growths or Butterfly Dances. And once they're set up, they have incredibly powerful moves at their disposal, with things like Petal Dance, Giga Drain which essentially cancels out LO recoil, and "STAB" HP Fire.

This isn't even the most dangerous part of Sun. One of the biggest threats under Sun is that Dragons get STAB on Fire moves. This means not only will most Dragons' Fire Blasts be hurting a hell of a lot more than usual, but also ones like Garchomp and Latios who normally have to rely on other moves to get their coverage suddenly also have Fire STAB. Garchomp with a moveset of SD/Outrage/EQ/Fire Fang gets STAB on every single one of it's moves, and now the ever so popular Balloon Steels are no longer safe from SE Stab moves coming from Chomp. Latios can run HP Fire and get the amazing Dragon-Fire coverage it has always wished for.

Now realize that Rain, the biggest check Sun has in the current metagame is (from the looks of other nominations) about to get the banhammer. I don't know if this nomination will be accepted, or if it is if anyone will vote to ban it, but when Drizzle is gone, Drought will become an immensely threatening presence in the metagame.
If Drizzle gets the boot, then Drought will take its place and I'm sorry, but Venusaur under sun is just as bad as the likes of Kingdra. If Drizzle goes, I'd really like to see Drought go too.
 
Uh i dont know where people are getting Balloon stops Spikes damage. No it doesn't, go and test it. It used to do on PO but now it doesn't for some reason so idk whats up with that. :/

<gonna edit this with my nominations later>
 
Uh i dont know where people are getting Balloon stops Spikes damage. No it doesn't, go and test it. It used to do on PO but now it doesn't for some reason so idk whats up with that. :/
We've already tested that it does. Check the research thread....
 

alamaster

hello
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion
Noms:

Shaymin-S

Incredibly good in this metagame since it outspeeds almost everything that’s used commonly. 127 Speed is fantastic and combined with 120 Sp.Att and two pretty good STABS makes for a killing machine. Flying is a severely underrated type with all of the Fighting pokemon floating around this gen, making a counter essential to a good team, and Skymin definitely fits that role easily. Grass is obviously good as well with all of the Rain and Sand Pokemon out there. Serene Grace is what pushes Skymin over the top for me. The fact that every counter to Seed Flare MUST take into account a minus TWO Sp.Def drop severely limits what can actually be used to stop this thing. Its moveset isn’t the greatest, but I honestly can’t think of many other moves that would increase its stellar coverage. Earth Power, Hidden Power and its two STABS are all it needs to tear up the metagame. Surprising bulk as well (able to take a Dory Rock Slide after SR) makes it tough to stop.

The Sub set is the most lethal, if it gets a Substitute up something is going to get KOd. It really is the definition of effortless; all a person has to do is come in on something that can’t hurt Skymin much, get a Sub and against a lot of teams it’s good game right there. Somebody else in this thread mentioned that the fact that pokemon that would get KOd by one of its attacks stays in just to get rid of the Sub. No counters, the ease of setting up and the effortless sweeping power of this set make it Uber.

A brief mention of the Scarf set, max Speed gets 582 Speed, enough to outspeed everything except Jolly Dory in Sand and Kingdra in Rain. The ability to revenge everything in the game is an amazing gift for Skymin. Air Slash flinches let it run through teams late game with ease and aside from max Speed Kingdra, it beats every Rain sweeper. Having one pokemon be able to take on one of the best play styles this gen by ITSELF is just insane. So I’m nominating Skymin because of the ease to use, effortless sweeps of the metagame and very very few counters who can threaten it back.

Darkrai

Darkrai is a fantastic sweeper with the one thing every good sweeper wants badly; it has a reliable Sleep move. Sleep mechanics have changed as well, making it useless to try to “waste” turns (switch in Sleep absorber to something that cannot hurt it in an attempt for it to wake up). The Sleep counter resets everytime the Sleep absorber switches out, so unless the user of Darkrai is incredibly incompetent this basically means one Pokemon is out of commission for good. Unlike other reliable Sleep users, Darkrai has insanely good speed and like Skymin, it has great coverage.

The Subsitute set is similar to Skymin’s, except trade sweeping power for ease to get a Sub up. With Dark Pulse and Focus Blast it gets very good coverage, becoming a real pain to face. Darkrai can utilize its large Special movepool and use many combinations of powerful attacks and still be successful. It can effectively use Nasty Plot as well, becoming quite hard to stop with a bit of support. The Scarf set is also able to sweep with ease late game, aside from Scarf Skymin, Max Speed Kingdra in Rain and Jolly Dory in Sand it’s the fastest used pokemon in the game. It also has pretty decent bulk for a fast and powerful sweeper, allowing it to take a good STAB hit or two before going down. I’m nominating Darkrai because of the changes to the Sleep mechanism that limits its counters greatly, a very solid movepool that gets the job done and for its blinding Speed, matched by very few.

Deoxys-A/N

Deoxys A and N are both absurdly powerful. Max Sp.Att Life Orb Psycho Boosts rival the power of Specs Draco Meteors from Latios. With Extremespeed they can decimate many frail scarfed pokemon or weather sweepers that would otherwise be able to counter them. While they are incredibly frail as well, when sweeping late game this isn’t an issue and anything with priority cannot match their 150 Speed Extremespeeds. Their only real Uber set is the Life Orbed sweeper with Psycho Boost, Super Power, Extremespeed and any filler attack works really. Their immediate power is just too much for anything in the metagame to handle. Nothing can straight up take their attacks making priority the only option to KO these fiends. Deoxys N is just as Uber, possibly more so since it can take a weak priority hit which could be a game breaking situation. The loss in power is not as serious as one would think since it still hits like a truck. I’m nominating Deoxys-A/N for being way too powerful for the OU metagame and for their ease of use and immediate strength.

Deoxys-S

Pretty much what the ultimate lead would look like. It’s too good at what it does, unless the opponent has Espeon/Xatu (which would be revealed with the showing of teams) it WILL get a couple of layers down everytime. Mischievous Heart pokemon cannot touch it either because of Magic Coat. It can also be reasonably bulky and use a Dual Screens set which when coupled with the high offensive nature of the game is extremely effective. The fact that nothing can beat it outside of a Speed tie with other Deoxys-S is just too ridiculous for OU. I’m nominating Deoxys-S for being a superb lead and being nearly impossible to stop while it does what it does.

Wobbuffet

Wobb is an amazingly good Pokemon with the unique (for now) ability to trap any Pokemon in the game with Shadow Tag. It can then proceed to Encore and switch to something that can take advantage of a free setup, which is a huge list of threats. Even though Encore has been somewhat nullified it still has enough time to do what it has to. With Custap Berry it can practically get a free KO on any Choiced or Encored Pokemon. It makes everything around it that much better with Encore. A single free turn of setup in the metagame is often a good game scenario. Despite the Encore setback, I’m nominating Wobbuffet because it is still a menace thanks to its ability and support options which are far too powerful for the OU metagame.
 
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